PH-BFA
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:09 pm

Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries has solved the Holloway case according to different media.

More to follow
 
kmh1956
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:19 pm

From what I can see from numerous media sources, Aruba police are investigating "new evidence".....that's a long way from the case being solved.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
PH-BFA
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:30 pm

Conversation between Peter r de Vries and the prosecutor in Aruba



Big version: Width: 730 Height: 526 File size: 222kb


[Edited 2008-01-31 12:30:43]
 
AirCop
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 2):
Conversation between Peter r de Vries and the prosecutor in Aruba

Good Grief, all in the name of ratings? Remember it would be a so called confession, and Joran could later say all sorts of things to deny it. It isn't solved by a long shot.
 
PH-BFA
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):

Good Grief, all in the name of ratings? Remember it would be a so called confession, and Joran could later say all sorts of things to deny it. It isn't solved by a long shot.

Just wait and see
 
petertenthije
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:46 pm

Well, we'll see a preview tonight at "Pauw & Witteman" (NL1 23:00). But that will probably not explain it all, after all, he has his TV show to sell. It should all be explained on his sunday show. On the one hand I would like to see the show, it is just such a pity that this smug self-centered Peter R. de Vries is hosting it. Big grin

With some luck he has now solved a case, rather then frustrate it. In the past some of his revelations made official police evidence invalid. Not to mention the people that went into hiding (criminals and witnesses alike) after some of his shows frustrating police further. I know a good number of police officers and I know not a single one would hesitate to give him the full works if given the option.
Attamottamotta!
 
AirCop
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:47 pm

I have no idea how the judicial system works in the Netherlands, but just because of what a reporter states, I would suppose the prosecutor will still have to prove the "confession" with evidence.
 
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EA CO AS
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
I would suppose the prosecutor will still have to prove the "confession" with evidence.

I'd think the same way - it's not like the confession was made to law enforcement officials; it was made to a guy with a camera.

Put another way - if I confess to a reporter my part in the JFK assassination, does that automatically mean I did it?  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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PH-BFA
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Holloway Case Is Solved???

Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:03 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 7):
Put another way - if I confess to a reporter my part in the JFK assassination, does that automatically mean I did it?

'Things are different in this case. Joran already was the main suspect in this case. I don't think this confession is the only evidence against Joran van der Sloot he (peter r de vries) found, but I think the crime reporter has also found hard evidence that links him directly to her disappearance and subsequent death. Anyway we will know for sure in a couple of days...

PH-BFA
 
ltbewr
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:08 am

It may be solved, but the reporter's actions may screw up the abilty under Netherlands and law and EC charter of rights to be charged, and either plead guilt or be tried and convicted. The 'confession' may be considered under illegal methods, not protective of his right against self-incrimination (like the USA's '5th Amendment' Constitutional right) in the Netherlands. If this ruins a conviction or guilty plea, I assume that they couldn't try them with that evidence and perhaps the real killer will get away. It also may have been a plan by the accused (VanSloot) who's father is a lawyer, to get away with the crime. It will also hurt the Holloway family as the killer of their daughter will not face penalties for their act.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:21 am



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 1):
Aruba police are investigating "new evidence".....

It's new but not evidence. Pull the plug already this is getting pathetic.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:27 am

I solved it 3 weeks after she went missing-

She's shark food
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:56 am



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
It's new but not evidence. Pull the plug already this is getting pathetic

Things might be different this time, it looks like it is actually solved now,
 
MEA-707
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:58 am

The weird thing is Joran van der Sloot is being photographed partying in a club in Arnhem last night, a few hours after this became big news in The Netherlands (and USA). So either Peter R de Vries doesn't have hard evidence, or Joran only was a witness while others were involved or it was an accident. De Vries handed over his research to the prosecutors so IF Joran actually killed her, he would have been arrested again by yesterday you would think.
As a sidenote I must say it shows Joran's lack of empathy to go partying while the mother of Nathalee just arrived in The Netherlands and has reportedly got confirmation her daughter indeed died.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
rwsea
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:03 pm

Why is this even news? How many people have died since Holloway disappeared, yet they're ancient history.

This is a sad case, but it's ridiculous that it's still getting the amount of attention that it is. Time to move on to the next media frenzy.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:01 am



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
Why is this even news? How many people have died since Holloway disappeared, yet they're ancient history.

Because of money. Holloways parents have some (from what I understand) and it keeps resurfacing...

this particular incident IS NOT because of that....

but to answer the question above....thats why it has stayed in the news this long...

Need more proof to back up my "poor" claim?

JFK Jr in the Martha's Vineyard crash. How long would they have searched for you or me? Not that long thats for damn sure...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
MEA-707
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:34 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
Why is this even news?

I must admit that while I am fully aware the atrocities in Darfur or Kenya are much more important, still I am very fascinated by this whole Nathalee and Joran soap. While still aware it's basically a tragedy... By now it is a real life thriller; both kids were probably making horrible choices that night, drugs, drinks, maybe ditching a dead body in sea. Then seeing how both their parents desparately try to prove their kid actually was an angel. Seeing Dr Phil, Oprah, and everyone on the streets take sides, discussions "did he do it", psychological analyses of Joran, is he a psychopat, or just a moron, or brilliant, or just at the wrong place on the wrong time. Observing the career of the slighly boring dutch crime reporter Peter R de Vries, did he gamble right or wrong with the claim he solved it? Will he come at Oprah? Will he learn to speak better English in the mean time? Will he jump on her couch? Will the USA boycot or attack the Netherlands or Aruba or have the CIA assassinate Joran if "we" still can't get them behind bars this time?
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
petertenthije
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:49 pm

With the show now half way, it must be said that it is indeed explained what happened. Joran made a number of confessions to a friend that where taped. However, at the moment no "smoking gun" has been found. Just the taped confessions alone will not be enough in a Dutch court (maybe in US court, I do not know about that). Especially since Joran has already said that all his statements to the friend where made up.

Thus far it seems that Joran's parents where not involved with getting rid of the body, dumped at sea. Another (as yet unnamed) person is. The program has about 40 more minutes to go, and it is hinted that the unnamed person will be revealed as well. Maybe a "smoking gun" will be revealed as well?

The program has been sold to a US TV station as well, can't remember which one.
Attamottamotta!
 
petertenthije
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:43 pm

Natalee was not murdered according to Joran's confession. She suffered some kind of seazure that killed her (Heart attack? Epileptic attack? Alcohol poisoning?). Joran then panicked and contacted the mate mentioned in my previous reply. This mate, Daury (lastname withheld as per Dutch law) works for one of the local boating companies. He got one of the boats and just dumped Natalee overboard. Apparantly not even weighing her down.

It should be noted that Joran does not even seem 100% convinced that Natalee was dead. When the "friend" asked if he checked he mentioned he did shook her, shouted at her. Daury just looked over her, and concluded she had died as well. When the friend that Joran made the confession to asked if she could have been "just" in coma or unconscious you could see him suddenly starting to doubt even himself.

The parents of Natalee did not know about it, though his dad did manage to sneak a mobile phone into prison for Joran (not much use Joran mentioned as it had barely any money on it).
Attamottamotta!
 
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airkas1
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:48 pm

I just watched the whole thing aswell... All I can say is "WOW".... Peter & crew did a terrific job and that undercover guy was playing his role excellent!

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 17):
The program has been sold to a US TV station as well, can't remember which one.

My mom told me ABC has the first broadcasting rights.
 
AirCop
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:01 pm

Well I guess the court disagreed: From the CNN website 2/15/08..

"The court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect's involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution," the appeals court announcement said.

In short; no arrest, case not solved officially.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:10 am

Exactly if Mr.

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 15):
Because of money. Holloways parents have some (from what I understand) and it keeps resurfacing...

Remove tin foil hat already we really don't need this. Has nothing to do with money. Was Jessica Lunsford's father rich? He lived in a trailor park and that case got a lot of press and they searched for his daughter. Why is there so much hatred toward people that have money on this site?

Peter De Vries is the Dutch version of Nancy Grace who you better watch tonight because she is going to probably spend the whole hour insulting Aruba and vowing vengeance.

Look Aruba is to blame here. I don't think it's hard to figure that after her stupid parents let her go to a foreign country by herself and let her stay out all hours partying she got piss drunk and by all accounts probably had alcohol poisoning and somehow became unconscious. After that nobody but Van der Sloot knows how she died. They panicked and fed her to the sharks. I doubt he killed her. Now, if Aruba had competant homicide investigators and didn't let him go like they did early on they could have gathered some evidence and got a real confession. Well that is long gone and this stupid ass media whore from Europe is not law enforcement and should not have went about this the way he did. If he did he would have known that his video would need corrabation. Now for the third time we had to go endure this in the media and the result is the same. Mr. and Mrs. Holloway you have my sympathy but you made a poor parenting decision and let your daughter go to a country that has a horrible homicide department and you will never find her remains or get justice. It's very sad but please let it go.
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sudden
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:47 am

Saw on TV last Friday (I live in Holland) that his confession was a lie!?
What to make out of that, really? He wanted to look big and mean in the eyes of the man that he looked up to, or he is just a dumb a22 boy that need a madrassed, soundproof room? Or he is simply too smart for the police?

I sure don't know. What I do know is that I wish that the Holloway family finds out the truth so they can try to go on with their lives.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
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ATCtower
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
poor parenting decision and let your daughter go to a country that has a horrible homicide department and you will never find her remains or get justice. It's very sad but please let it go.

You are just arrogant as hell. Your profile says you are at the age where you likely have kids or will soon (if ever). I can assure you, someday your children will come to you and say they want to go on vacation with their friends from school. They will tell you there are numerous adult chaperones going with, and you likely will not spend endless days searching homicide rate statistics, death rates, and legal abilities of your adult child. Furthermore, if your child was missing for 2years, I dont think you would be quite as quick to say "let it go".
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kmh1956
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:34 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Pull the plug already this is getting pathetic.



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
It's very sad but please let it go.

Tell her parents that.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
her stupid parents let her go to a foreign country by herself

First of all, she wasn't by herself. She was with a school group, with chaperones. Second of all, when kids get to be a certain age, you have to be able to trust them to make good decisions for themselves. In this case, perhaps Natalee didn't make a good choice for herself and ended up getting loaded and perhaps got alcohol poisoning. However, even if that is the case, she certainly didn't deserve to be dumped overboard like yesterday's garbage by some spoiled little rich kid who panicked.....
I'm going to assume that you don't have any kids, because I can say for certain that if anything like this ever happened to my daughter, I would move heaven and earth to find out what happened and who was responsible for it.....I wouldn't be 'pulling the plug' or 'letting it go.'
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
NIKV69
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting ATCtower (Reply 23):
You are just arrogant as hell.

Why because If I had an 18 year old daughter and I would never let her go on vacation without me or my wife?

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 23):
someday your children will come to you and say they want to go on vacation with their friends from school. They will tell you there are numerous adult chaperones going with, and you likely will not spend endless days searching homicide rate statistics, death rates, and legal abilities

I still would tell her it ain't happening.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 23):
Furthermore, if your child was missing for 2years, I dont think you would be quite as quick to say "let it go".

If I was that stupid to let her go without me and she disappeared I would do everything to find out what happened which these parents have basically found out. I mean short of aliens coming down and kidnapping her it's clear to see she got too drunk and Van de sloot has knowledge of her death and final resting place. Now Aruba dropped the ball and all legal avenues are exhausted. Now what do you do?

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 24):
Tell her parents that

I think her mother and both father and step father know deep down this is it. I think you have people like Nancy Grace to thank for contiuning to drag them in front of the camera. In a way they can't let go but in another way short of going after Van der Sloot themselves which is their only option they have an idea of what happened and have some closure with it.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 24):
First of all, she wasn't by herself. She was with a school group, with chaperones

Where were they that night when she was getting piss drunk and letting guys drink shots off her body?

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 24):
Second of all, when kids get to be a certain age, you have to be able to trust them to make good decisions for themselves.

Are you serious? At 18, do you feel an attractive girl with no supervision and access to a casino and alcohol is going to make good decisions? I see girls in their mid 20s in that setting that can't. Your not an adult at 18 even though the law says you are. This girl let just about all her inhibitions go and she paid the ultimate price. Not to mention not ONE of her school group of friends made it their business to make sure she was ok getting in the car with these guys or that she made it back to the hotel. Ever hear of the buddy system? This whole case stinks to high heaven.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 24):
I'm going to assume that you don't have any kids, because I can say for certain that if anything like this ever happened to my daughter, I would move heaven and earth to find out what happened and who was responsible for it.....I wouldn't be 'pulling the plug' or 'letting it go.'

I don't have any kids but that means nothing. I wouldn't let a daughter of mine go to a foreign country without me. Of course you would move heaven and earth to find out what happened but once you have and the culprit can't be prosecuted what do you do after three tries?
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
kmh1956
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
I wouldn't let a daughter of mine go to a foreign country without me

Suppose she wanted to go to university in London, or Edinburgh? Good lord, what if she wanted to go out of state, are you saying you wouldn't allow that either? You going to follow her to college too?
Living in Bermuda, if you want a decent college education you have to go overseas....my daughter went to the USA.....at 18....I had to let her go.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:05 am

Oh my God dont let Greta Van Susteren know....

Seems like she did that story ages after it was dead everywhere else....

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
rwsea
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:04 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Look Aruba is to blame here. I don't think it's hard to figure that after her stupid parents let her go to a foreign country by herself and let her stay out all hours partying she got piss drunk and by all accounts probably had alcohol poisoning and somehow became unconscious.

Last time I checked someone who is 18 is an adult and their vacations aren't a matter of their parents "letting them" go.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Mr. and Mrs. Holloway you have my sympathy but you made a poor parenting decision and let your daughter go to a country that has a horrible homicide department and you will never find her remains or get justice.

Again, you can't stop someone who is an adult from doing something. And speaking of the "horrible" homicide department in Aruba, how many murders go unsolved in the US every year? Since you live in the US I'm assuming you let your daughter be in the US, despite an imperfect "homicide department".

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
Why because If I had an 18 year old daughter and I would never let her go on vacation without me or my wife?

Again, someone who's 18 can serve in the military and die for their country. No one can stop them from going on a trip. Natalee Holloway was an adult who made a decision to go. And she made a decision to hang out with these guys when she was on her trip.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
Are you serious? At 18, do you feel an attractive girl with no supervision and access to a casino and alcohol is going to make good decisions?

No, but the law says otherwise. And for the record, millions (billions?) of 18-year olds all over the world have access to alcohol and many are unsupervised. Somehow they turn out ok.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:49 am



Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 27):
Oh my God dont let Greta Van Susteren know....

Seems like she did that story ages after it was dead everywhere else....

Yep, Greta is letting me down she has been crossing into Nancy Grace terrority.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
Last time I checked someone who is 18 is an adult and their vacations aren't a matter of their parents "letting them" go.

So when you hit 18 you were and adult and new everything? The law is one thing, real life is another. I don't care what the law says no 18 year old girl fresh out of HS is an adult. If she was she wouldn't have been stumbling around drunk and getting into cars with strangers.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
Again, you can't stop someone who is an adult from doing something. And speaking of the "horrible" homicide department in Aruba, how many murders go unsolved in the US every year? Since you live in the US I'm assuming you let your daughter be in the US, despite an imperfect "homicide department".

I am not even going to answer this, you are actually going to compare Aruba's LO to ours? They screwed the dog badly, very badly. Unsolved murders in the US have nothing to do with this case.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
Again, someone who's 18 can serve in the military and die for their country. No one can stop them from going on a trip. Natalee Holloway was an adult who made a decision to go. And she made a decision to hang out with these guys when she was on her trip.

Great, still doesn't mean its prudent.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
No, but the law says otherwise. And for the record, millions (billions?) of 18-year olds all over the world have access to alcohol and many are unsupervised. Somehow they turn out ok.

True but Natalie sure didn't.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
rwsea
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:40 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
I am not even going to answer this, you are actually going to compare Aruba's LO to ours? They screwed the dog badly, very badly. Unsolved murders in the US have nothing to do with this case.

Actually, to your point, they do. You basically said Aruba is a messed up country with terrible police because one death went unsolved. Yet, there are probably hundreds of unsolved deaths in the US every year and somehow that's ok. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
So when you hit 18 you were and adult and new everything? The law is one thing, real life is another. I don't care what the law says no 18 year old girl fresh out of HS is an adult. If she was she wouldn't have been stumbling around drunk and getting into cars with strangers.

No, but in the eyes of the law, 18 year olds are adults and carry all the rights, responsibilities, and privileges thereof. You sit here and talk about her parents "letting her go" but she was an adult, there is a point in time when parents can no longer control their kids every move, and that point is when the kid turns 18.

Now regarding stumbling around drunk, that's another issue entirely. But I'd be willing to bet that these same parents protected their daughter by forbidding her to drink anything at all. So of course, this 18 year-old all of a sudden discovers alcohol for the first time and goes off the deep end. Really a commentary of the US-view of underage drinking more than anything else - if people here were taught to drink responsibily by their parents when they're younger, then maybe we wouldn't have so many of these types of things happen.

BTW, have you ever been to Aruba? Beautiful place, I love it and am going back this fall.
 
NWA742
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:54 am



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
Actually, to your point, they do. You basically said Aruba is a messed up country with terrible police because one death went unsolved. Yet, there are probably hundreds of unsolved deaths in the US every year and somehow that's ok. Doesn't make any sense to me.

You know what makes no sense to me? That type of argument. If you and him want to compare the effectiveness of law enforcement in the US vs. Aruba regarding how often they solve murders, you need to look beyond simple figures and look at rates, percentages, and ratios.

Saying that US Law Enforcement Agencies are less effective because there are more unsolved murders here than Aruba is stupid because you haven't factored in that the US is much larger, more diverse, and has a much greater population than Aruba.

Without factoring these variables, I could say that the US is not as safe as Columbia because we have more total murders each year, but when you factor in important variables, you'll find Columbia has a much much higher RATE of murder and is highly unsafe compared to the US.

Again the argument you provide is only focused on data..........turn it into information - that is, data compiled into a form that has meaning and context. It always amazes me how people fail to do this so often when comparing one thing to another.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
NIKV69
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:02 am



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
You basically said Aruba is a messed up country with terrible police because one death went unsolved.

Please, never did I say Aruba is a messed up country, please stay in context. Their LO is quite poor though because this case was solvable and they had the culprit but let him go and let too much time elapse. Now we have to endure Nancy Grace's all over the world that are trying to solve this case.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
Yet, there are probably hundreds of unsolved deaths in the US every year and somehow that's ok. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Your argument is weak, of those unsolved cases how do we know what kind of evidence there is? Your reaching big time. I will tell you this, if the US had the evidence Aruba did they would have had him confessing (With corrabation) and in jail first time around.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Analog
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RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:42 am



Quoting PH-BFA (Thread starter):
Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries has solved the Holloway case according to different media.

So he's determined that people really care way too much about this.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
I don't care what the law says no 18 year old girl fresh out of HS is an adult. If she was she wouldn't have been stumbling around drunk and getting into cars with strangers.

Wait; adults don't do that? Damn! All those people wasting their time at bars.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
No, but in the eyes of the law, 18 year olds are adults and carry all the rights, responsibilities, and privileges thereof.

What country are you from? In the US we treat them as adults for punishment when they're 14 and for freedoms when they're 21.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
I don't care what the law says no 18 year old girl fresh out of HS is an adult.

Tell that to prosecutors charging her with something other than an underage alcohol offence. In the prosecutor's eyes an 18-year old is an adult and has been for many years.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 31):
Saying that US Law Enforcement Agencies are less effective because there are more unsolved murders here than Aruba is stupid because you haven't factored in that the US is much larger, more diverse, and has a much greater population than Aruba.

So are you saying that diversity increases murder rates?  Confused
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:19 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
If she was she wouldn't have been stumbling around drunk and getting into cars with strangers.

You haven't hung around too many colleges, have you?
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14675
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:10 pm

I think for all practical matters this case is solved, although justice of convicting someone responsible for it will never happen. I hope all of the guys allegedly involved will pay a price for the rest of their lives in their own minds and in their day to day lives for their choice of actions that night. Young people are not expected to die or be murdered on vacation, especially to a place not considered a high risk for violent crime.

I think the general outline of what happened was discussed in the 'confessions', that the was severely drunk, some guys took her to a secluded spot, she was raped, she either died or went into a coma or near coma state, the guys got scared and got rid of her body to cover up their actions and out of fear of criminal prosecution.

One group of problems I have always had with this case is the lack of responsibility of Natalee, her friends, the so called 'chaparones' and the bar or bars she was at as to her drinking. Perhaps Natalee was inexperienced in alcohol, and her parents, like too many, never encouraged responsibility as to alcohol use. Still, she chose to over-consume alcohol. Yes, she was 18 and an adult for all legal reasons in Aruba, including alcohol consumption, but that doesn't mean she had to overindulge for the first time legally. Her friends and the Chaperone's never showed enough concern of her alcohol consumption or of her, they should have never left her alone, there is safety in numbers or being with a 'buddy' from making bad decisions. Here in the USA and in many other jurisdictions, licensed bars are not supposed to serve those who are visibly intoxicated. The last bar clearly had a responsibility not to serve her or allow her to continue to consume alcohol or allow the behavior that encouraged further drinking and probably should have called her a cab or had her taken to a hospital. In the USA, most likely a bar in a similar case would be put out of business with the revocation of their liquor license or at the least have their alcohol license suspended for a long time by the authorities and would face serious liability lawsuits.

I think now is the time to put this case to the 'closed' file as to justice and in the media attention.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13199
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:16 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Wait; adults don't do that? Damn! All those people wasting their time at bars.

Well if they are looking to get laid they are probably not going to get as drunk as Holloway did.

Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Tell that to prosecutors charging her with something other than an underage alcohol offence. In the prosecutor's eyes an 18-year old is an adult and has been for many years.

Paper law is great but in reality she needed some supervision.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 34):
You haven't hung around too many colleges, have you?

This matters why?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 35):
One group of problems I have always had with this case is the lack of responsibility of Natalee, her friends, the so called 'chaparones'

Yes the chaparones sole purpose on thie trip was to prevent this very thing and they were nowhere to be found.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
So are you saying that diversity increases murder rates?

In some forms and in some ways, yes.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:29 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
but it's ridiculous that it's still getting the amount of attention that it is.

True, though it's not hard to understand why.

This case not only has every ingredient of the classic "Missing White Woman Syndrome" (e.g., pretty, young, White, female, girl-next-door-looking, and had money).... but also has many of the same factors on the male/perpetrator side of the equation as well (i.e., he could basically the boy-from-down-the-street for White suburbia, also has looks, plus a politically-connected family, and money as well).

That's why this story has this manner of staying power: only one such saga overshadows it, and that was Laci Peterson-- perhaps the quintessential example of MWWS; perhaps because she was pregnant, who knows? Some might add OJ to that, for its incredible staying power in media affairs-- though, Nicole Brown didn't go missing (RIP).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17884
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 38):
This case not only has every ingredient of the classic "Missing White Woman Syndrome" (e.g., pretty, young, White, female, girl-next-door-looking, and had money).... but also has many of the same factors on the male/perpetrator side of the equation as well (i.e., he could basically the boy-from-down-the-street for White suburbia, also has looks, plus a politically-connected family, and money as well).

Kinda like several Kennedy incidents Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13199
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 38):
This case not only has every ingredient of the classic "Missing White Woman Syndrome" (e.g., pretty, young, White, female, girl-next-door-looking, and had money).... but also has many of the same factors on the male/perpetrator side of the equation as well (i.e., he could basically the boy-from-down-the-street for White suburbia, also has looks, plus a politically-connected family, and money as well).

That's why this story has this manner of staying power: only one such saga overshadows it, and that was Laci Peterson-- perhaps the quintessential example of MWWS; perhaps because she was pregnant, who knows? Some might add OJ to that, for its incredible staying power in media affairs-- though, Nicole Brown didn't go missing (RIP).

Ok, you need to rip that tin foil hat off it's overheating!  hot 

The reason you are still hearing about this case is vengeance. People like Nancy Grace and her like are crusaders who want people to pay for these crimes, and well they should. What happens is when circumstances outside their control cause the culprit go free (as Aruba did) these people go nuts. Not to mention it's a ratings game as well. The reason OJ was and will always be the biggest news story in our history is not only of his celebrity but because Nancy Grace and her loyal followers want him to pay. That is why his trial in April will be a circus and everything he does is news. He doesn't help himself by doing the stupid shit he does as well. Actually Nancy Grace should get on her knees before OJ, and so should Greta because if it wasn't for him they would still be making 50K a year prosecuting nickel and dime cases in bum fuck Egypt. Hell, Nancy Grace would probably be disbarred by now going by her record in the court room. They are both multi millionaires by just sitting in front of a camera and playing super slueths. God Bless America! Also your money excuse is weak, it has nothing to do with what girl has money. Plenty of cases similiar to this getting the same press. See Reno, Nevada and North Carolina USMC. Give it a break already.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 40):
Ok, you need to rip that tin foil hat off it's overheating!

The reason you are still hearing about this case is vengeance. People like Nancy Grace and her like are crusaders who want people to pay for these crimes, and well they should.

Horsesquat.

If the likes of Nancy/Greta gave a damn about vengeance/justice (as opposed to, oh I dunno--- ratings); then they'd be helping people like the LaToyia Figueroa or the pregnant Hispanic woman who disappeared from the same area on the same day that Laci Peterson did----- not people with money and the political connections to essentially achieve mass coverage on their own right.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:45 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 40):
People like Nancy Grace and her like are crusaders who want people to pay for these crimes, and well they should.

And when was the last time, that Grace and her co-horts spend weeks on weeks covering a story about a missing black female?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 42):
And when was the last time, that Grace and her co-horts spend weeks on weeks covering a story about a missing black female?

Only once, and not Grace but Greta... in the case of LaToyia Figueroa, and that's because her family went militant on the media (and good for them for doing so!).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Holloway Case Is Solved?

Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:39 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 36):
This matters why?

18 year old girls fresh out of high school head to college....freshman year, numerous college girls spend a great deal of their time stumbling around drunk....whether it's legal or not, they can always find a party somewhere.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield

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