EU Citizens : Is Your Nationality "European"?

LHStarAlliance · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:04 pm

This Question is logically just to citizens of countries in EU .

Do you feel like a European the same as you feel bounded to your country ?

I feel like a European in first Place and on second a German .

Constantin

ACDC8 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:07 pm

Even though I live in Canada and have dual citizen ship, I feel just as much European as German, always have. Most people ask me where I'm from, I'll say Europe then Germany to be more specific.

[Edited 2008-02-01 13:07:42]

ManuCH · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:13 pm

This is actually a quite interesting question. I've noticed many Germans saying that they feel "European", and it seems a stronger feeling if compared to nationals of other European countries. Why is this? Maybe Germany is kind of the heart of Europe?

I am and will always be Swiss, even in the case Switzerland should join the EU sometimes in the future. It's just that I'm proud of the peculiarities of our country and of my national identity.

AFKLMLHLX · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:18 pm

As a whole, most all parts of Europe have similar qualities. Whether you are in France, Italy or the Netherlands, overall, I see many similarities in the ways people think and live. People in Milan live the good life while people in many parts of France do the same. Gastronomy, culture and unique urban metropolises are subject to all parts of Europe.

LTU932 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
Maybe Germany is kind of the heart of Europe?

Not maybe, it IS. Why? Because Germany is right smack in the middle of Central Europe, which qualifies us to be (literally) the heart of Europe. Wink

A342 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Yes, I also think I'm primarily an European. I was born in one European country and now live in another.

Banco · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:21 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
Why is this?

Could it possibly be because of the history? Not just the first half of the 20th century, but Germany is hardly a long established nation state. There isn't exactly an endless unbroken history for Germans to feel associated directly with. And certainly the post-war Germans looked to subsume their identity within a wider European one.

Swiss goes back God knows how long. A distinct English/Welsh or Scottish identity is well over a thousand years old, and even a British one goes back to at least 1707, and arguably a century further back.

I feel about as European as I do American, to be honest, given the historical links between Britain and North America. There's more of a kinship with the "Anglo-Saxon" world (usually culturally, nothing to do with race) So, no, definitely not a European nationality, not even a European identity.

MD11Engineer · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:21 pm

I have lived in other European countries and consider myself primarely "European", secondly a Berliner and third German.

Jan

WildcatYXU · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:27 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Not maybe, it IS. Why? Because Germany is right smack in the middle of Central Europe, which qualifies us to be (literally) the heart of Europe.

Are you sure? Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre_of_Europe

Germany, however, is definitely in the centre of EU 25 and EU 27.

Toast · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:31 pm

Wha? There is no such thing as Europe.

Signed,
Gkirk

Wink

I don't consider myself part of any society. I like individuals, not herds. At gunpoint, I would say "European", though. My native country is irrelevant to me.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
you feel bounded to your country

I'm not into bondage, not even figuratively. Smile

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Germany is right smack in the middle of Central Europe

Care to say that to a Pole? Smile

I think maybe only Iceland and Portugal never claim to be the "heart" of Europe. Big grin

SQ948 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:34 pm

I wouldn't call my nationality European. I'm still German but very happy and proud to live in Europe yes

Banco · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:44 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 9):
I think maybe only Iceland and Portugal never claim to be the "heart" of Europe.

We point out that we're the brain... Wink

Rara · Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:46 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
I've noticed many Germans saying that they feel "European", and it seems a stronger feeling if compared to nationals of other European countries. Why is this?

I'm not sure whether this is the case. Out of curiosity, I've plotted Germany, Italy and the UK as well as the EU average based on 2004 Eurobarometer data (representative survey).

Big version: Width: 501 Height: 385 File size: 60kb

People were asked whether they'd have an exclusively national identity, national and European, European and national or exclusively European.

As you can see, Germany is always very close to the EU average. Italy is much more positive towards a shared national-European identity, and Britain is much more negative.

One can also see that those who feel European first or European only are just a tiny minority; that holds for all countries considered.

swiftski · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:03 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
and Britain is much more negative

It's just how we are...

English first. I am proud to be English. I am proud to be British. I am European.

Notice the lack of the "P" word?

Toast · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:05 pm

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
Notice the lack of the "P" word?

"Prick"? "Pickle"? "Patagonia"? What are you talking about? Confused

Birdwatching · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:09 pm

Proud European.

Soren santahat

swiftski · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:09 pm

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
proud to be English

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
proud to be British

What P word appears there, but not here:

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
I am European

Go on... think!

bitelip

nighthawk · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:17 pm

Im Scottish.

I will never be british, and I will never be European.

haggis79 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:31 pm

well, yes I definitely consider myself being European and I think there's something like a European identity.... besides, I like the EU flag much more than the (quite boring) German one... Wink

but when asked where I'm from it depends a little on who asks... when in Germany, I'm a Frankonian.... when somewhere in Europa a German, and when somewhere else in the world, a European.... hope that makes sense...

OA260 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:33 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 17):
Im Scottish.

I will never be british,

When did Scotland start issuing their own Scottish passports ???

------------------------------------------

I Hold dual nationality but after that Im European .

nighthawk · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:35 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
When did Scotland start issuing their own Scottish passports ???

when did europe start issuing their own european passports?

Banco · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:40 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 17):
Im Scottish.

I will never be british,

When did Scotland start issuing their own Scottish passports ???

He's fully entitled not to feel British. Your own country had one or two people feeling the same way, after all! Wink

OA260 · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:41 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 20):
when did europe start issuing their own european passports?

They dont but all passports have ''European Union'' on them and are printed in all European languages !!! Nearest thing your gonna get . No where in a UK / British passport does it mention ''Scotland'' or ''Scottish''.

PlymSpotter · Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:52 pm

I'm from Norfolk, but luckily I escaped after a few weeks and now feel proud to call myself English.

Dan Smile

nighthawk · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:06 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
secondly a Berliner

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
English first. I am proud to be English.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 23):
now feel proud to call myself English.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
They dont but all passports have ''European Union'' on them and are printed in all European languages !!! Nearest thing your gonna get . No where in a UK / British passport does it mention ''Scotland'' or ''Scottish''.

So... will you now be correcting the above three posters and pointing out that there is no english passport, and no berliner passports? Or is it just pick on scotland day yet again? Yeah sure

britjap · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:07 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
Germany is kind of the heart of Europe

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
we're the brain

I guess that makes France the Ego! duck

I'm very proud of my British half, but I like the idea of a greater European identity.

Banco · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:18 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 24):
So... will you now be correcting the above three posters and pointing out that there is no english passport, and no berliner passports? Or is it just pick on scotland day yet again?

Remove the chip. The others never pointedly said they weren't British. You did.

pelican · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:20 pm

I'm German. That includes being European because Germany is a European nation.

pelican

mhodgson · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:21 pm

English and British first (English as it is where I was born and have always lived; British because I have some Scottish ancestry as well). I don't really consider myself as a European in the same way that I do British.

swiftski · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:22 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 24):
So... will you now be correcting the above three posters and pointing out that there is no english passport,

England is within the UK (Passport type). I am proud to be from England. As I quite clearly stated, I am also proud to be British. I have nothing against Scotland, with one side of my family from Glasgow. I simply was born and raised for the first 10 years of my life in England.

extspotter · Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:56 pm

I feel that I am English first, then European. The only real reason behind it is that I haven't really discovered Europe for myself yet. I have experienced it more since I started learning languages. Hopefully I can get onto the Erasmus Project and do a Uni year in Spain. I would like to see more of it, as I have only spent time in Catalonia, Pais Basco, Andalucia and Castilla y Leon, and I love the culture as it is so different, like a strange mix of manic, yet relaxing at the same time.

OHLHD · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:09 am

My ancestors come from Finland, Austria, Czech, Ukraine and Slovenia. ( Czech, Ukraine and Slovenia were Austria back then btw)

I am a European but I would never call myself so.

Hi my name is....., I am from Europe WTF no never.

Imagine, whom to support in the stadium?

AverageUser · Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:07 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 20):
when did europe start issuing their own european passports

Did you not realize they have! It came with the concept of an EU citizenship. Correspondigly, the top row of your new EU passport indicates your new citizenship. When the EU constitutional agreement has been formally ratified in all EU states we have a pretty much done deal.

MD11Engineer · Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:51 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 24):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
secondly a Berliner

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 13):
English first. I am proud to be English.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 23):
now feel proud to call myself English.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
They dont but all passports have ''European Union'' on them and are printed in all European languages !!! Nearest thing your gonna get . No where in a UK / British passport does it mention ''Scotland'' or ''Scottish''.

So... will you now be correcting the above three posters and pointing out that there is no english passport, and no berliner passports? Or is it just pick on scotland day yet again? Yeah sure

First, it is quite improbable that Berlin will ever demand it's independence from Germany (especially since the former kingdom of Prussia, which included the land around it does not exist anymore). Secondly I'm speaking about an emotional attachment. I'm currently living in the state of Rhineland-Palatinate, after having lived for several years in Cologne, and I have problems with the Rhinisch mentality, especially if it comes to the carnival season, which I, with a Prussian mentality find rather silly. Third, Berlin has about the same status as Scotland. It is a subdivision of a bigger country with limited authority:
1) Berlin, like Scotland, has it's own parliament with limited powers. It can raise taxes though.
2) Berlin, like Scotland, has it's own police force

Berlin does not have a department of foreign relations. It does not have an army etc., so ithe state of Berlin has the same level of independence and authority as Scotland.
There does not exist a Berlin passport, same as there does not exist a Scottish one.
Berlin does not have an independent seat in the UN or UE either, same as Scotland. And nobody in Berlin demands independence from Germany.

My passport says European Union and Federal Republic of Germany.
As a long time vision I support a further integration of the EU.

Jan

SInGAPORE_AIR · Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:55 am

I consider myself a British European.

f.pier · Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:57 am

I live in the European Union, in Brescia, Italy, but I first am and feel European. And proud to be.

IH8BY · Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:21 am

Quoting BritJap (Reply 25):

I'm very proud of my British half, but I like the idea of a greater European identity.

Yes, that latter part I suppose is where I would say I stand. I'd say I am English, but I don't think I'd say it with pride. The things I have come to associate with being proud to be English reek of a popular patriotism that comes dangerously close to arrogance and xenophobia. There's little in what the Sun identifies with being English, for example, that I would fill me with national pride.

I would say I'm from the UK, because I am, and because for reasons of regional sensitivities it is inoculated against many of the difficulties that prevent me from being proud to be English, I could say I'm proud to be British.

I would like to say I'm from the European Union, but I don't feel it yet has enough of an identity to be able to say that on its own, plus it would likely unleash a torrent of abuse from the vast majority of people in the UK who are anti-EU; I think the anti-EU sentiment here is so strong that any pro-EU response here is always muted, as though people are ashamed to admit they would associate with something like that. As a result there is a desperate lack of impartial information and advice available in the UK about the EU, and so it's an issue on which the media inform the public viewpoint too much.
As for being proud to be European... well, I think I am. I know it has its faults, but the concept of cooperation and diversity that underlines it is one that I would say I respect. I would have no shame in flying an EU flag alongside the UK's insignia.

[Edited 2008-02-02 02:31:57]

OA260 · Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:49 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 24):
So... will you now be correcting the above three posters and pointing out that there is no english passport, and no berliner passports? Or is it just pick on scotland day yet again?

Quoting Banco (Reply 26):
Remove the chip. The others never pointedly said they weren't British. You did.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 32):
Did you not realize they have! It came with the concept of an EU citizenship

I rest my case thumbsup

Just for the record I dont have any problem with Scotland. If someone had have said the same about England I would have corrected them also.

AverageUser · Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:10 am

I think the crucial question here is whether a German really deep below wants to symphatize with the likes of Romania, Finland and Cyprus for a new integrated concept of pride and other positive feelings, or is it in fact just a mental splitting of what he or she likes about Germany into the positive EU side, and the historical "evil" into the so-called past national side. It all boils down into all the national trauma Gemany has had, and in my opinion still has.

LHStarAlliance · Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:18 am

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 38):
I think the crucial question here is whether a German really deep below wants to symphatize with the likes of Romania, Finland and Cyprus for a new integrated concept of pride and other positive feelings, or is it in fact just a mental splitting of what he or she likes about Germany into the positive EU side, and the historical "evil" into the so-called past national side. It all boils down into all the national trauma Gemany has had, and in my opinion still has.

That's a good point , I think Germans feel much more bounded to countries like France , Spain , Italy , UK ...
Countries like Romania are the "poor east countries" which keep their time steeling our Porsches ...

And imagine Turkey in the EU ! I hope it never happens !

Constantin

AverageUser · Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:42 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 39):
And imagine Turkey in the EU ! I hope it never happens

Why would you like to keep a large nation out of the well-tested peaceful and rational political development that the EU has to offer? I hope you're not discriminating a group of ethnic people, as you probably know no such thing will be legally tolerated within the EU?

[Edited 2008-02-02 03:43:55]

MD11Engineer · Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:57 am

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 38):
I think the crucial question here is whether a German really deep below wants to symphatize with the likes of Romania, Finland and Cyprus for a new integrated concept of pride and other positive feelings, or is it in fact just a mental splitting of what he or she likes about Germany into the positive EU side, and the historical "evil" into the so-called past national side. It all boils down into all the national trauma Gemany has had, and in my opinion still has.

IMO, very simple: Continental Europe has been interacting so much over the last millenia, that in the end we have a common history.
As an example, the region where I live now was at times part of the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, French, Prussian, Imperial German, French occupied and part of the Federal Republic of Germany.
As for my ancestors (on my father's side, I don't know as much about those on my mother's side), they were originally mountain farmers from the salzburger Land in Austria, in the early 18th century forced to flee to East Prussia (the Empress of Austria dictated that they, being Lutherans, had either to convert to Catholicism or leave the country). In East prussia they settled in the Memelland, north of the river Memel (Nieman), where they mixed with the local population of Lithuanians (explaining my family name), Polish and Russians, I'm also quite sure that I have some ancestors of the big Jewish community, which used to live there until WW2. Then one of my ancestors was a French soldier of Napoleon's Grande Armee, who, after surviving the retreat from Russia in 1812, decided that he had enough and deserted, getting stuck in this region, eventually marrying a local girl.
After WW1 my ancestors were forced to leave their farms, when Lithuania became independent of Russia and annected the Memelland.
They settled in the Prussian province Posen (today called Poznan as part of Poland), which they again had to leave after WW2, to settle down in Berlin.
I think most continental Europeans have similar family histories, spanning various regions and countries.

Jan

Banco · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:01 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 41):
Continental Europe has been interacting so much over the last millenia, that in the end we have a common history.

Interesting post. By implication you suggest (rightly, I think) that the non-continental Europeans (i.e. us) do not. Care to expand on that bit? I'm interested in your perspective.

Fiatstilojtd · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:08 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 9):
I'm not into bondage, not even figuratively.

Blasphemy, Fatwah....!!!

Signed
JGPH1A

A few years ago, before I started to move around Europe I would have just said I am an Austrian citizen and then second I am European. Nowadays I would say I am a PROUD Austrian citizen and then second I am European Wink

.

Maybe we should all ask Sheikh Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber (the guy who wants to invest 150 Million EUR into Austrian Airlines), who is also an AUSTRIAN citizen, if he is a proud Austrian/European Citizen or rather Saudi Arabian - that would be interesting.

LHStarAlliance · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:19 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 41):
opinion still has.

IMO, very simple: Continental Europe has been interacting so much over the last millenia, that in the end we have a common history.
As an example, the region where I live now was at times part of the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, French, Prussian, Imperial German, French occupied and part of the Federal Republic of Germany.
As for my ancestors (on my father's side, I don't know as much about those on my mother's side), they were originally mountain farmers from the salzburger Land in Austria, in the early 18th century forced to flee to East Prussia (the Empress of Austria dictated that they, being Lutherans, had either to convert to Catholicism or leave the country). In East prussia they settled in the Memelland, north of the river Memel (Nieman), where they mixed with the local population of Lithuanians (explaining my family name), Polish and Russians, I'm also quite sure that I have some ancestors of the big Jewish community, which used to live there until WW2. Then one of my ancestors was a French soldier of Napoleon's Grande Armee, who, after surviving the retreat from Russia in 1812, decided that he had enough and deserted, getting stuck in this region, eventually marrying a local girl.
After WW1 my ancestors were forced to leave their farms, when Lithuania became independent of Russia and annected the Memelland.
They settled in the Prussian province Posen (today called Poznan as part of Poland), which they again had to leave after WW2, to settle down in Berlin.
I think most continental Europeans have similar family histories, spanning various regions and countries.

Jan

wow interesting Family history !

I have ancestors which were huguenots . and I have an ancestor in the 1500 years who studied in Orleans , imagine in that years from the north of Germany to Orleans ! That was a long travel !

petertenthije · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:21 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
We point out that we're the brain...

And with the amount of alcohol you pour into it, the brain gets onto auto-pilot... taking us back to the Germans once more.

Toast · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:24 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 41):
most continental Europeans have similar family histories, spanning various regions and countries.

I only know my family history from the late 1890s up, but it involves at least a dozen countries (including four that don't exist anymore) and three continents. If you're European and your family hasn't lived in a Pyrenean hamlet since time immemorial, chances are you're a German/French/Polish/Jewish/[insert whatever] hybrid.

Quoting Banco (Reply 42):
you suggest (rightly, I think) that the non-continental Europeans (i.e. us) do not.

Geographic (semi-) isolation has a powerful influence on a country's history and its people's mentality. Britain was largely untouched by the upheavals and population movements that shaped the Continent for centuries. If your ancestors were not tortured by the Spanish inquisition, raped by Napoleon's soldiers, gassed by the Nazis, and sent to a gulag by Stalin, you can't really call yourself a European. Wink

zillox · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:27 pm

Yes , I am Cool

European and Belg

AverageUser · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:33 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 42):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 41):
Continental Europe has been interacting so much over the last millenia, that in the end we have a common history.

Interesting post. By implication you suggest (rightly, I think) that the non-continental Europeans (i.e. us) do not. Care to expand on that bit? I'm interested in your perspective.

Me too, as Jan's concept of being an European seems to revolve around being able to show having a long documented family history in parts of Central Europe. That to me smacks of a bit of the same as an American could be an American only if he or she is of a Puritan descent, with a residence in Boston.

Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 43):
Maybe we should all ask Sheikh Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber (the guy who wants to invest 150 Million EUR into Austrian Airlines), who is also an AUSTRIAN citizen, if he is a proud Austrian/European Citizen or rather Saudi Arabian - that would be interesting.

Why should the Sheikh not be proud of being an Austrian citizen, and the other way round, why should the rest of Austrians not be proud of him? After all, he seems to be a succesful person that has brought some wealth to the country!

Banco · Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:42 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 46):
Geographic (semi-) isolation has a powerful influence on a country's history and its people's mentality. Britain was largely untouched by the upheavals and population movements that shaped the Continent for centuries. If your ancestors were not tortured by the Spanish inquisition, raped by Napoleon's soldiers, gassed by the Nazis, and sent to a gulag by Stalin, you can't really call yourself a European.

Britain's history was shaped by the sea, by learning to command the narrow seas between it and the continent, in order to preserve its independence against vastly more powerful states in the shape of France of Spain. English (and later British) armies were rarely a match for the continental powers, because they didn't often need to be. But Britain had a massive influence on European history precisely because it became the pre-eminent maritime power (and maritime power is why the Dutch experience is the closest to the British one); it was England who effectively broke Spain as a major power in Europe, because they had to rely on the sea lanes for their wealth. France never came to terms it, and that was the brake on their power across the centuries. But it inevitably meant that Britain did not engage in continental affairs in the way that the rest of Europe did. The fundamental difference in England's experience was that until 1650 or so, when the English finally learned how to exploit the seas on a permanent basis, England, very much a second class European power managed to preserve its independence from the superpowers across the water unlike anyone else in the same position.

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