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cfalk
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Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 pm

I have a suggestion, and I would like to know how many people here would be for or against it.

As a sign of protest, I would like to propose a nationwide campaign of TTBO (Throw The Bums Out!). That means, this coming november, for the entire House and the third of the Senate that is up for reelection, you make a commitment to not vote for the incumbent. I don't care what party he is from. If there is one challenger, you vote for him (or her). If there is more than one challenger, you vote for the challenger that is closest to you politically. If his (only) opponent is from a party that you disagree with, you vote for the challenger. Under NO circumstances can you vote for the incumbent.

I would bet that at least 10-20% of the population would go for this idea, and given that most races are within 10 points or so of each other, it should be enough to shake Congress you its core, and give them a strong message that we are sick of the vote-buying, the earmarks, and the pork. We are sick of having a political class, who see nothing wrong with living their entire life on the government dole, and giving themselves fat perks.

For instance, did you know that if Hillary loses her bid for president and then lost her seat in the Senate (or simply resigned), Bill and Hillary would continue to recieve their full Presidential and Senate salaries until they die, not to mention all the other perks, like health care. That comes up to something like $600,000 per year for the next 20-40 years, for 8 years of work on both sides. Have you looked at YOUR pension plan lately? I figure it won't look that good. I could have retired at age 30.

This is not a Hillary-bashing thread. That is just an example of the self-serving bastards we have in government, and once they have a taste of the trough, they don't want to come home.

So who's with me?

Yes, throw the bums out! : 1
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 0
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:46 pm

Yes, throw the bums out! : 2
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 0

Side note: I already had my mind made up in the local race in my congressional district nearly 2 years ago. Big grin
 
Confuscius
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
As a sign of protest, I would like to propose a nationwide campaign of TTBO (Throw The Bums Out!). That means, this coming november, for the entire House and the third of the Senate that is up for reelection, you make a commitment to not vote for the incumbent.

Yeah right, now that the Democrats control Congress. Where were you in 2000 & 2004?
 
cfalk
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:52 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
Yeah right, now that the Democrats control Congress. Where were you in 2000 & 2004?

Since those years, Republicans in Congress have turned out to be just as bad as the Democrats.

Look, in many races, you will have two Dems on the ballot or two Republicans. I don't care. What I would like to see is an entirely new Congress.

And two years after that, we do it again. And again in 2012. There should not be as single reelected congressman in 2009 and not a single repeat senator in 2012.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:01 pm

Yes, throw the bums out! : 2
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 0
What's the difference? They're all the same: 1

Though I can't vote in US elections, let me bring that new option to the public. It's a universal fact of politics regardless of country.
 
Confuscius
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:05 pm

I'm for power sharing in both branches. It worked reasonably well for Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton because each branch provided checks and balances. I'm relatively sure if McCain wins he'll be able to work with a Democratic Congress except perhaps on Iraq.

As for this year's election, the Republicans have very little chance in taking over either the House or Senate. They have plenty of reitiring members on both floors and in the Senate Republicans have to defend around 20 seats.

[Edited 2008-02-11 14:05:51]
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:28 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 3):
Look, in many races, you will have two Dems on the ballot or two Republicans. I don't care. What I would like to see is an entirely new Congress.

What on earth are you talking about? In the November general election for each seat in Congress and the Senate you will have one Democrat and one Republican, and some minor party candidates depending on your state. For someone who is as educated as you are, you have to be aware that only one candidate from each party in one the general election ballot, and in some districts only the incumbent will be on the ballot due to a lack of challengers.
 
cfalk
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:04 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
What on earth are you talking about? In the November general election for each seat in Congress and the Senate you will have one Democrat and one Republican, and some minor party candidates depending on your state. For someone who is as educated as you are, you have to be aware that only one candidate from each party in one the general election ballot, and in some districts only the incumbent will be on the ballot due to a lack of challengers.

I seem to recall seeing multiple Democrats going for the House, particularly where there was no GOP candidate - I might be wrong.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
What's the difference? They're all the same: 1

You've miss the point entirely. The idea is to tell them, "no, you can't buy our votes with pork and turn what was intended as public service into a lucrative and perk-filled career. And a freshman congressman is certainly less dangerous than a seasoned pro who knows how to get the earmarks, knows all his collegues who are willing to trade favors, etc.. Those are the dangerous ones. Those are the ones who have no intention of heading back into the real world and having to work for a living and fill out all those mandatory federal information packages, not to mention have to hire professionals just to do his taxes - which should by all rights be a no-brainer excercise..

Professional politicians have screwed up our country. It's time to put patriots back in charge - people willing to take a few years out of their lives to serve in Congress, and then go back to work. (without a lifetime salary and other such perks).
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:11 am



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
seem to recall seeing multiple Democrats going for the House, particularly where there was no GOP candidate - I might be wrong.

Might be the primary, you're thinking of? Anyways another Republican House Vet called it quits today, AZ Congressman John Shadegg. With the passing of Congressman Lantos, what is that 30 open seats this November?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:38 am



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 7):
It's time to put patriots back in charge - people willing to take a few years out of their lives to serve in Congress, and then go back to work. (without a lifetime salary and other such perks).

In politics, the most you'll find are nationalists, people who pervert other people's sentiments of patriotism to use it for their political gains. Just face it, it doesn't matter whether you're a member of the US House of Representatives, the UK House of Commons or the German Bundestag, you'll never find real patriots in politics. As a voter, the only thing you can do is choose the lesser of two evils, that's IMO what politics in this day and age is all about, especially in democracies like e.g. the US, the UK or Germany.
 
sccutler
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:58 am

Charles, you make a compelling point here.

Note well: when congress passes legislation which affects us all, they virtually always exclude themselves from the legislation's effects. With their profoundly generous retirement scheme, even those few legislators who might have had real-world business experience quickly forget their roots. To secure election to one term in the House or senate is, indeed, to grasp the brass ring.

I have a good friend who is reasonably well-placed in the administration, and he is painfully aware of the dysfunction that is DC. He tells me that the entrenched bureaucrats will overcome the political will of any President, and that they consider themselves beyond reach to mere elected representatives.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:05 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Yes, throw the bums out! : 1
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 0

Send 'em all packing and start over - WITH TERM LIMITS

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
Where were you in 2000 & 2004?

Same place I am now - thought they sucked then, think they got worse. Sen. Lisa Murkowski from Alaska couldn't find her own ass with both hands and a squad of Cavalry Scouts (sorta the same problem some folks in SoCal have) Sen Stevens is senile. Rep Don Young is crooked and only gets re-elected because of the Native Vote . . . if his wife weren't an Athabaskan he'd have been gone 15 years ago.

[Edited 2008-02-11 19:06:13]
 
Falcon84
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:52 am



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
As a sign of protest, I would like to propose a nationwide campaign of TTBO (Throw The Bums Out!). That means, this coming november, for the entire House and the third of the Senate that is up for reelection, you make a commitment to not vote for the incumbent.

Yeah right, now that the Democrats control Congress. Where were you in 2000 & 2004?

My thought exactly, Confuscius! Good timing, Charles.

I tell you what, I agree-as long as we can keep the Dems in control of both Houses  Wink
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:58 am

Yes, i'm all for it.
Patty Murray is up for reelecton, so that's a garauteed vote against her
Baghdad Jim McDermott is also up, so won't be voting for him.
Maria Cantwell is also up for reelection, but she's one of the very few Democrats I vote for, but in the spirit of this debate, she's been in the Senate too long

Yes, throw the bums out! : 3
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 0
What's the difference? They're all the same: 1
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:44 pm



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 13):
Maria Cantwell is also up for reelection,

If Senator Cantwell was re-elected to a new six year term in 2006 why would she be up for re-election this year?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Send 'em all packing and start over - WITH TERM LIMITS

Term Limits on the state level have proven not to be effective, and besides elected officials at least in Arizona have figured a way around them, they just swap seats. Every organization needs some people that has a historical appreciation and knowledge of the government body.
 
cfalk
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:57 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Term Limits on the state level have proven not to be effective, and besides elected officials at least in Arizona have figured a way around them, they just swap seats.

That's an example of a poorly worded law, or more probably, "creative incompetance".

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Every organization needs some people that has a historical appreciation and knowledge of the government body.

Agreed. They are the bureaucrats, and they are the professionals that actually work their way up the ladder just as in any corporation. They advise the politically elected or appointed people who are placed above them, and implement policy that gets promulgated.

As far as I can tell, it is quite rare that politicians are particularly competant at anything that they are given the job to do (apart from ingratiating themselves). You have people serving on the armed services committee, or foreign intelligence and elsewhere where they have huge power to allow/deny programs and steer them one way or another, but who have never had ANY experience whatsoever working in those fields. That is why you have a bureacracy in government, to run things and make sure the politicos don't screw things up too much.

But once a politician has been around for 20-30 years, he inevitably knows a lot more about how to be dangerous, thinking that he actually knows something about the subject. But if he really knew something, he would have done something useful with his life, not become a career politician.
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:12 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
Agreed. They are the bureaucrats, and they are the professionals that actually work their way up the ladder just as in any corporation. They advise the politically elected or appointed people who are placed above them, and implement policy that gets promulgated.

Unfortunately this administration decided early on, that the career federal employees in the State Department, Defense Department, Justice Department, were not to be listen to, if they had perhaps 9/11 might not have occurred, and for sure the United States wouldn't have been involved in the Iraq mess.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
That's an example of a poorly worded law, or more probably, "creative incompetance".

It's happening in places other than Arizona.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
But if he really knew something, he would have done something useful with his life, not become a career politician.

Tell that to the widow of the late Congressman Tom Lantos, or Congressman Harry Mitchell, who spend a career in public education, or some of the retired military members who are members of Congress.
 
cfalk
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:40 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
if they had perhaps 9/11 might not have occurred

WHOA!!!

You are gonna have to back that one up. I suggest you start a new thread instead of hijacking this one.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
Tell that to the widow of the late Congressman Tom Lantos, or Congressman Harry Mitchell, who spend a career in public education, or some of the retired military members who are members of Congress.

Bad examples. Lantos worked (and fought) nearly a fairly full career before becoming a full time politician. I like that. He earned his stripes in every way. Mitchell less so, but not bad either.

I'm talking about those who grew up knowing that they were going to live off of the public trough. Ted Kennedy is the most extreme example - he graduated from law school and within two years he was elected to the senate (and the only reason 2 years had to pass was that he could not be Senator under the age of 30).

Professional politicians such as him are classed around the same level as ambulance-chasers, in my book.

What if we required that you can only be elected to Congress if you are more than 60-65 years old? That would put a natural term limit (nobody will be around for 50 years), and ensure that all of them know what it's like to work for a living, feed your family, send your kids to college, and pay off a mortgage BEFORE they have access to all those perks. Just a thought...
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:10 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
But once a politician has been around for 20-30 years, he inevitably knows a lot more about how to be dangerous, thinking that he actually knows something about the subject. But if he really knew something, he would have done something useful with his life, not become a career politician.

Let me see here, you make a statement, I provided some examples that cause some doubts regarding your statements, then I told by you, that I used bad examples because they disproved your theory.  scratchchin 

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
You are gonna have to back that one up.

You know those silly career FBI agents..
 
cfalk
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:32 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Let me see here, you make a statement, I provided some examples that cause some doubts regarding your statements, then I told by you, that I used bad examples because they disproved your theory.

It didn't disprove anything. I say that I dislike the idea of professional politicians, who come into elected politics as a lucrative career for life, who know they give good speeches, and who get off on the public adulation (they're all bottle babies, they say  Wink). Ted Kennedy being the poster-child.

You gave to examples, one of a politician who fought in a war and then had a pretty good business career before he went to Congress, and another who was more of a politician but at least tried to do something on the side most of the time. Neither as bad as Kennedy, but both I think probably outlived their usefulness in the senate after becoming entrenched in the system of mutual backscratching.

At some point, any politician who wants to remain in office will start doing things that are contrary to the interests of the country in order to garner favor from a certain special interest group, or lobbyist, or whoever he feels can help him get elected again. Bridge to nowhere, anyone? All those earmarks and the massive tax code and the litterally hundreds of thousands of laws that now exist to give a special favor here or there. I don't like it. But it is human nature, and the way to eliminate the problem is by not allowing them to be reelected.

Government is about power, and power corrupts. We need to understand that serving in Government is a necessary evil. A dirty job that someone has to do. Like an old-style prison executioner. You have to get very worried when the executioner (and the politician) starts to ask to keep his job again and again. It's just not healthy.
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:36 pm

Why do you continue to insult, demean their accomplishments of those in public office that you disagree with:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
You gave to examples, one of a politician who fought in a war and then had a pretty good business career before he went to Congress, and another who was more of a politician but at least tried to do something on the side most of the time.

One (Lantos) was a professor at an university, not a business man; (taken from Lantos congressional web site)
Tom attended the University of Washington in Seattle, where he received a B.A. and M.A. in Economics. He moved to San Francisco in 1950 and began graduate studies at the University of California, Berkeley, where he later received his Ph.D. in economics. In the fall of 1950 he started teaching economics at San Francisco State University.

and the other (Mitchell) was a public school teacher full time and a local council member until he retired and ran for the State Senate (taken from his web site)
After Harry's successful tenure as Mayor, he was elected to the Arizona State Senate, where he helped grow Arizona's economy and shape Arizona State University into a world-class academic institution.

Harry taught American government and economics at Tempe High School, the same high school he graduated from, for 28 years. He also served as an adjunct professor at his alma mater, ASU.

The way you describe them is far from reality.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Send 'em all packing and start over - WITH TERM LIMITS

Then we can't keep the good ones who do their jobs.

I say toss them all too.. And bring in people with ZERO political experience. That's right. Let's do this the way the framers intended. Elder statesman. People who are retired from running businesses and actually serving their community as citizens instead of pretending to serve a community they do not understand as politicians.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:32 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
If Senator Cantwell was re-elected to a new six year term in 2006 why would she be up for re-election this year?

I looked that up and I stand corrected. I was looking at soemthing else I lumped the 2 together

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
Unfortunately this administration decided early on, that the career federal employees in the State Department, Defense Department, Justice Department, were not to be listen to, if they had perhaps 9/11 might not have occurred, and for sure the United States wouldn't have been involved in the Iraq mess.

If the preceeding administration had taken on terrorism instead of being passive about it, 9/11 might not have happened.
 
Superfly
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:42 am

Yes, throw the bums out! : 3
No, I like my Senator/Congressman: 1
What's the difference? They're all the same: 1


I like my Senator/Congressman. Afterall, my Congresswoman House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is still the most powerful woman in the world.  duck 
 
AirCop
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RE: Let's Throw The Bums Out!

Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:20 pm

When the dust settled this morning the incumbent in the Maryland 4th lost in the primary and it appears that a Maryland Republican also lost in the primary.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/?hpid=topnews

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