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cfalk
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Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:41 am

Check out this news report, and check out the large flag hanging on the wall in the Obama campaign headquarters in Houston.

For his sake I hope he makes clear to his supporters that Che was hardly someone to be admired, especially not connected with him.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pa...EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Big version: Width: 328 Height: 250 File size: 73kb
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:56 am



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
For his sake I hope he makes clear to his supporters that Che was hardly someone to be admired, especially not connected with him.

Well, in all fairness, Obama can't be held responsible for all the slip-ups of his staff supporters, but if he starts to quote some of Che's writings, then I think America should be worried.
 
Confuscius
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:52 am



Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Obama And Another Flag Problem

What was his original problem, by not wearing a flag pin on his lapel?


I love Bill Maher's take on that issue.



Warning: Adult language.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:32 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Well, in all fairness, Obama can't be held responsible for all the slip-ups of his staff supporters

Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it. Can't claim ignorance here. It's like George Costanza telling his boss he didn't know it was wrong to bang the cleaning lady on his office desk.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
but if he starts to quote some of Che's writings, then I think America should be worried.

We already are.
 
Mir
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:47 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it.

Why? His job is to campaign for election, not to monitor his campaigns. Not to mention that it's not even an official campaign office. He most likely knows about it now, and can call the office and tell them that they should take the flag down if he feels it necessary. Though he is ultimately responsible for their conduct, there simply is no realistic way for him to know what all his campaign offices are hanging on their walls at all times. The best one can hope for is that if something comes up he deals with it promptly.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Can't claim ignorance here. It's like George Costanza telling his boss he didn't know it was wrong to bang the cleaning lady on his office desk.

Unless Obama personally hung the flag on the wall, that analogy simply isn't relevant at all.

-Mir
 
n521na
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:51 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it. Can't claim ignorance here. It's like George Costanza telling his boss he didn't know it was wrong to bang the cleaning lady on his office desk.

Wow, do you even think about what you're typing?

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why? His job is to campaign for election, not to monitor his campaigns.

Amen.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
We already are.

Speak for yourself

[Edited 2008-02-11 23:51:27]
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:56 am



Quoting N521NA (Reply 5):

Wow, do you even think about what you're typing?

No, I can assure you he doesn't.


To make that comparison, with the countless number of campaign offices he has, is completely ridiculous.
 
HALFA
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:58 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
We already are.

No "We" aren't. You are. You don't speak for me, and apparently, you don't speak for much of America that supports him.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why? His job is to campaign for election, not to monitor his campaigns. Not to mention that it's not even an official campaign office.



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Unless Obama personally hung the flag on the wall, that analogy simply isn't relevant at all.

 checkmark 
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:04 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Well, in all fairness, Obama can't be held responsible for all the slip-ups of his staff supporters

Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it. Can't claim ignorance here. It's like George Costanza telling his boss he didn't know it was wrong to bang the cleaning lady on his office desk.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
but if he starts to quote some of Che's writings, then I think America should be worried.

We already are.

 
bagoldex
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:12 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
We already are.

Of what specifically?
 
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yowza
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:48 am

As far as I'm concerned this is a non-event. A total non-event. In the same way as the Bush twins getting shitfaced and making asses out of themselves is a non event. One man can not be responsible for every action every person affiliated with him takes.

Quoting N521NA (Reply 5):

Wow, do you even think about what you're typing?

Do a search of NIKV69's posts on anything US politics related, the answer to that question will become apparent VERY quickly.

YOWza
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:54 am



Quoting YOWza (Reply 10):
A total non-event.

Hypothetical analogy: A poster, let's say with Mussolini in one of Bush's campaign offices would be a "non-event"??? I seriously doubt that.
 
columba
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:15 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it. Can't claim ignorance here. It's like George Costanza telling his boss he didn't know it was wrong to bang the cleaning lady on his office desk.

As if he in the offices of all employees all the time and watch what they are doing...................
 
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yowza
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:22 am



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
Hypothetical analogy: A poster, let's say with Mussolini in one of Bush's campaign offices would be a "non-event"??? I seriously doubt that.

It would be stupid, nonsensical and ill-advised but a non-event none the less.

YOWza
 
aloges
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:15 am



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
A poster, let's say with Mussolini in one of Bush's campaign offices would be a "non-event"??? I seriously doubt that.

If he stated that it's inappropriate when asked, it would be a non-event. If he said that Mussolini was a great leader and a source of inspiration, it would be an event.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
I love Bill Maher's take on that issue.

 checkmark  That sort of thing is pretty reassuring. I've found all those flag pins ridiculous from the day I first saw them.
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:04 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
What was his original problem, by not wearing a flag pin on his lapel?

It was his refusal to salute the flag. I don't care about the lapel pin. I also think the flag salute for civilians (hand over heart) is rather archaic. But it makes me wonder if that was his reason for refusing, or if he feels that the U.S. is not something worth saluting.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why? His job is to campaign for election, not to monitor his campaigns.

that is part of his job, even if he can't do it directly. It's part of the job of executive management - you have to establish the rules and culture your people have to live by. This is why many of us have been saying he has no executive experience. If I were in his place, I would have established standards for my campaign offices which would include guidelines on decorations that are (not) allowed.

But it worries me that you have so many people who still love Che, who was personally responsible for hundreds of cold-blooded murders.

“To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary…These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate. We must create the pedagogy of the The Wall! (El Paredón)”
— Ernesto ‘Che’ Guevara
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:15 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
What was his original problem, by not wearing a flag pin on his lapel?

It was his refusal to salute the flag.

Why is he obligated to salute it? I don't. I put my hand over my heart, or I have my hands in front or behind me when the Anthem is sung. Military salutes. Civilians don't, Charles. A non-issue if ever there was one.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
But it makes me wonder if that was his reason for refusing, or if he feels that the U.S. is not something worth saluting.

Maybe, like many people, he's just more comfortable standing respectfully. It's not like he's turned his back to the flag, is sitting down during the Anthem, or disrespecting it in any way. Again, if your litmus test of one's patriotism is where they place their hands during the Anthem, you're more militant than I thought, Charles.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
But it worries me that you have so many people who still love Che, who was personally responsible for hundreds of cold-blooded murders.

And Obama is involved in this-how? Because ONE of the hundreds or thousands of his offices had a Che flag, and he should just run out and check every one of these offices, so someone like you doesn't make a big deal about it on an internet site? Uh, OK.  Yeah sure
 
AirCop
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:37 pm

Just woke up, another anti-Obama post by Cfalk. This is getting to be a broken record. We get it, you hate the guy for whatever reason, and considering this is a Fox Report it can't be accurate since even the national Fox didn't pick it up; and besides the station this morning added this comment to the video:

The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
It was his refusal to salute the flag. I don't care about the lapel pin. I also think the flag salute for civilians (hand over heart) is rather archaic.

This is consider a normal sign of respect for the national flag. Apparently you haven't been to a sporting event, no one salutes the flag, a minority just puts their hand over the heart.
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:43 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 17):
Apparently you haven't been to a sporting event, no one salutes the flag,

Apparently you haven't been to a NASCAR race, everyone salutes the flag. I seem to recall seeing that a lot in other sports as well.

And before you say, "Oh, that's not a salute", I suggest you read up on what a salute is.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Why is he obligated to salute it? I don't. I put my hand over my heart, or I have my hands in front or behind me when the Anthem is sung. Military salutes. Civilians don't, Charles. A non-issue if ever there was one.

A salute is a gesture used to display respect. The hand-on-heart gesture qualifies as a salute, even if it is not the same as a military salute.

And as I said before, yes, I think it is archeic (for civilians, I mean) and rather silly. But what's the harm in doing it? What does it cost you? What are your motivations for NOT doing it, in front of a large audience when everyone else is? Is it another example of a generation that has become so blase about their society that they don't feel they owe their country (or anyone) respect? I don't know.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 17):
considering this is a Fox Report it can't be accurate

Sounds like prejudice to me (once again, read up on what prejudice is). Do you always believe the Daily Kos, or can you provide a single example of a Fox news item that was fabricated? And by the way, it wasn't Fox but a local affiliate in Houston.
 
AirCop
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:04 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
can you provide a single example of a Fox news item that was fabricated?

You are kidding aren't you. Just last week, Fox News label Senator McCain as D-AZ??? No homeless vets?? What about the comments that certain Fox news people used to describe that actor Heath whatever?? Isn't is strange all the Fox stations decided not to renew Monte Williams after his appearance on the morning show, and embarrassed the hosts, about why Fox was spending more time on actors/and wannabes than the dead from Iraq.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
Do you always believe the Daily Kos,

Don't read it.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
The hand-on-heart gesture qualifies as a salute, even if it is not the same as a military salute.

I'm old school; military salute should be confined to someone wearing the military/public safety uniform (which I did on 2 counts) , or at special events such as American Legion, VFW, color guards members at funerals etc.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
And by the way, it wasn't Fox but a local affiliate in Houston.

And it was a Fox affiliate in Houston, which as since corrected it's mistake about being a Obama Campaign Office.
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:19 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 19):
I'm old school; military salute should be confined to someone wearing the military/public safety uniform

I completely agree, but nobody was talking about a military salute. And in any case, the salute issue is an old one, and not the subject of this thread.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 19):
You are kidding aren't you. Just last week, Fox News label Senator McCain as D-AZ??? No homeless vets?? What about the comments that certain Fox news people used to describe that actor Heath whatever?? Isn't is strange all the Fox stations decided not to renew Monte Williams after his appearance on the morning show, and embarrassed the hosts, about why Fox was spending more time on actors/and wannabes than the dead from Iraq.

You have posted examples of mistakes of the same sort that NBC and all the other networks do all the time. Guess what - they are human. But your implication was that the report was intentionally misleading, as all Fox reporting is. If Fox reported it, it will be wrong. That is what you said.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 17):
considering this is a Fox Report it can't be accurate

 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:43 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
Apparently you haven't been to a NASCAR race, everyone salutes the flag. I seem to recall seeing that a lot in other sports as well.

Yes, but unfortunately, most of the people saluting the flag at a NASCAR race have no idea why they are doing it, they just like saying they're patriots. I'd guess the majority of them have a beer in the other hand as well.

There is no constitutional statement that says all US citizens must place their hand on their heart when the national anthem is sung. In the armed forces you are required to salute the flag during this.

Obama stood up and faced the flag. That is more than enough respect, I can't believe people make an issue of this.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:45 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why? His job is to campaign for election, not to monitor his campaigns. Not to mention that it's not even an official campaign office. He most likely knows about it now, and can call the office and tell them that they should take the flag down if he feels it necessary. Though he is ultimately responsible for their conduct, there simply is no realistic way for him to know what all his campaign offices are hanging on their walls at all times. The best one can hope for is that if something comes up he deals with it promptly.

It is still a refelction of him and his campaign. Well he obvioulsy knows now about the flag. Wonder how he handled it?

Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
No "We" aren't. You are. You don't speak for me, and apparently, you don't speak for much of America that supports him

Oh ok already the whole country is behind him? What do you base this on? You better be careful he probably isn't going to even get the nom after the superdelegates and when Florida's delegates are reinstated.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
Hypothetical analogy: A poster, let's say with Mussolini in one of Bush's campaign offices would be a "non-event"??? I seriously doubt that.

So do I

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
It was his refusal to salute the flag. I don't care about the lapel pin. I also think the flag salute for civilians (hand over heart) is rather archaic. But it makes me wonder if that was his reason for refusing, or if he feels that the U.S. is not something worth saluting.

We all have our own views on saluting the flag, some will put their hand over their hearts some won't, things like taking your hat off when the national anthem is played is just RESPECT for the symbol of this country which IMO gets worse every day, but I will say this. Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions), voting against English as our official language and now having the flag of a Marxist is one of his campaign offices is telling. If you want to say it's a non-issue fine but I don't want my president behaving in this way.
 
AirCop
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:51 pm

Just wonder how Cfalk will respond , if Senator McCain is elected president, as he is physically incapable of completing a military salute.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21):
Yes, but unfortunately, most of the people saluting the flag at a NASCAR race have no idea why they are doing it, they just like saying they're patriots. I'd guess the majority of them have a beer in the other hand as we

 checkmark  In all fairness, a good number of United States Army infantry members do come from the south..
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:56 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 23):
a good number of United States Army infantry members do come from the south..

True. I was referring more to the people who spout off about how patriotic they are, and at the same time drive around with conservative flags on their huge pickup trucks shouting "the south will rise again!"
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:10 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 23):
Just wonder how Cfalk will respond , if Senator McCain is elected president, as he is physically incapable of completing a military salute.

As I have said here before, I a mot much of a fan of McCain as president, because of his political orientation. But as far as saluting is concerned, John McCain has earned his right to do any damned thing he wants.
 
AirCop
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:17 pm



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 24):
True. I was referring more to the people who spout off about how patriotic they are, and at the same time drive around with conservative flags on their huge pickup trucks shouting "the south will rise again!"

I kind of figured that..

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions), voting against English as our official language

Please tell me as a veteran why I should wear the flag lapel pin on my suit/sport jacket etc. Again, what service did you serve in?
When California was turned over to the USA by Mexico, in the treaty it clearly states that one of the official language of California will be Spanish.  mischievous 
 
Banco
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 26):
Please tell me as a veteran why I should wear the flag lapel pin on my suit/sport jacket etc

You know, looking on from afar, the weirdness is that there seems to be a strand of thought that NOT wearing an explicit symbol of the state is somehow unpatriotic and unAmerican. How has it got to that? Orwell would have wet himself laughing.
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 26):
When California was turned over to the USA by Mexico, in the treaty it clearly states that one of the official language of California will be Spanish

I cannot find any such reference. Here is the text of the treaty

http://www.azteca.net/aztec/guadhida.html
 
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scbriml
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:46 pm

I'm confused.

You say:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
I think it is archeic (for civilians, I mean) and rather silly.

and this:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
But what's the harm in doing it?

So you think it's archaic and silly, but you expect him to do it? I guess I must be missing something.

Nobody in Europe expects a civilian to salute anything. Most of us feel we can express our patriotism without the need for badges, the ritual chanting of oaths or the saluting of flags or anthems. Why is it such a big thing in America?
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
So you think it's archaic and silly, but you expect him to do it? I guess I must be missing something.

What I meant was (and this was not a subject of the thread - someone else brought it up) tha, knowing that many people feel strongly about it, why did he not simply conform to common practice instead of provoking a big debate about the whole issue? If you don't give a damn either way (and you are running for public office) you go ahead and expend the 0.5 calories it takes to conform. In that setting, if you don't conform, it must mean that you either are making some sort of statement (and what statement would that be?) or that you really, REALLY don't give a damn.

I'm just curious as to the thoughts buzzing around in his head. He is running for president, you know, and I think trying to figure out what kind of values he has is rather important.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
Nobody in Europe expects a civilian to salute anything.

Understandable, given Europe's history of taking such things to extremes. Now Europe has another problem - in their commendable effort to exterminate the kind of destructive nationalism that gave rise to Napoleon and Hitler, they have also destroyed much of the good things that a sort of balanced patriotism can also bring.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
Why is it such a big thing in America?

I lived most of my life in Europe, and I have heard this opinion for most of it. Europeans are puzzled, and sometimes alarmed at displays of American patriotism, which are so similar to nationalist displays that have dominated European history for over 2000 years. Europeans need to understand that we in America have not had that experience (and Europe did not seem to mind it at all, until some 65 years ago when things got a bit out of hand).

I won't go into a dissertation about how patriotism, self-respect, respect for one another, and nationalism relate to each other. Sitting here thinking about it I see some very interesting possibilities, but I need to work sometimes.

Suffice it to say that I have seen both European and American culture long term and in depth. Personally, I think we Americans lay it on a bit thick, while Europeans don't lay it on thick enough. the proper balance is somewhere in between.
 
Banco
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:16 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 30):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
Nobody in Europe expects a civilian to salute anything.

Understandable, given Europe's history of taking such things to extremes

But not Britain's, which is culturally the most similar European nation to yours.
 
Klaus
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 30):
Understandable, given Europe's history of taking such things to extremes. Now Europe has another problem - in their commendable effort to exterminate the kind of destructive nationalism that gave rise to Napoleon and Hitler, they have also destroyed much of the good things that a sort of balanced patriotism can also bring.

Like invading other countries in a nationalistic frenzy, for instance...?  eyebrow 
 
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falstaff
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
Apparently you haven't been to a NASCAR race, everyone salutes the flag. I seem to recall seeing that a lot in other sports as well.

At the high school sporting events I attend most of the people salute during the national anthem.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 24):
I was referring more to the people who spout off about how patriotic they are, and at the same time drive around with conservative flags on their huge pickup trucks shouting "the south will rise again!"

I didn't know conservatives had flags... Is it a flag with Ronald Regan on it? That would be cool. There are a lot of Yankees with big trucks too.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 26):
Please tell me as a veteran why I should wear the flag lapel pin on my suit/sport jacket etc.

I wear a pin relating to whatever event I'm at.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
the ritual chanting of oaths or the saluting of flags or anthems. Why is it such a big thing in America?

I thought every country has a national anthem. If you don't respect your country because of its government you should at least respect other citizens.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:25 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 30):
Americans lay it on a bit thick, while Europeans don't lay it on thick enough

If you watch the World Cup those Europeans lay it on thick and its the Americans who don't care.
 
cfalk
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:27 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 31):
But not Britain's, which is culturally the most similar European nation to yours.

Don't recall a little ditty called "Rule, Britannia"? Britain built themselves one hell of an empire, and you don't build an empire like that without being just a little bit nationalistic, don't you think?
 
Confuscius
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Well I would think that he should be aware of the behavior of this campaign or anybody affiliated with it.

What does it have to do with Che's politics? Perhaps she's just a fellow asthmatic like Ernesto.

Also, that flag was probably made in the USA unlike the lead tainted American flag pins from China.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
Apparently you haven't been to a NASCAR race, everyone salutes the flag.

Like AirCop was saying, "A Sporting Event".  duck 
 
Banco
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:42 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 35):
Don't recall a little ditty called "Rule, Britannia"? Britain built themselves one hell of an empire, and you don't build an empire like that without being just a little bit nationalistic, don't you think?

And what has that to do with the price of cheese?

The part being discussed was an American flag-waving, flag saluting, lapel badge wearing culture where those that don't partake are seen in some quarters as being unpatriotic and unAmerican. We do not have that here.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:52 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 36):
Also, that flag was probably made in the USA unlike the lead tainted American flag pins from China.

That Che flag was brought to you by capitolism.

Quoting Banco (Reply 37):
The part being discussed was an American flag-waving, flag saluting, lapel badge wearing culture where those that don't partake are seen in some quarters as being unpatriotic and unAmerican. We do not have that here.

In metro Detroit we have a large population of people who were not born in the USA. I see flags from Iraq, Palestine, Canada, Mexico, Albania, Greece, Slovienia, Poland, and a few others all the time. I see them hanging on flag poles in front of homes, on cars, tattooed on people. Just down the street from me there is a home with a large US flag and a smaller Iraq flag underneath. I would say a lot of people are flag wavers, not just your run of the mill Americans.

You may not see all this in some higher end parts of town, but around where I live it is common.
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:56 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
We all have our own views on saluting the flag, some will put their hand over their hearts some won't, things like taking your hat off when the national anthem is played is just RESPECT for the symbol of this country which IMO gets worse every day, but I will say this. Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions), voting against English as our official language and now having the flag of a Marxist is one of his campaign offices is telling. If you want to say it's a non-issue fine but I don't want my president behaving in this way.

NIKV69, you are one scary dude! Do you really think every American wearing a sport jacket should be wearing a flag lapel pin? If I fail to wear a pin on my lapel, do you really suggest that makes me any less respectful of this country? If I happen to agree with Obama that there is no need for a constitutional amendment making English the official language of the country, am I really any less respectful to this country? And this whole flag issue is a complete farce! This was NOT an official campaign office. Unbelievable!  sarcastic 
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:03 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 38):
That Che flag was brought to you by capitolism.

Maybe we should all buy one. It'll help our economy instead of China. Remember, action speaks louder the words or symbolism. Now that's true patriotism.

[Edited 2008-02-12 10:04:14]
 
HALFA
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
Oh ok already the whole country is behind him? What do you base this on?

Stop being so hysterical, I never said the whole country is behind him. I said much of America is and this is based on recent polls that have Obama leading McCain in a hypothetical 2 man race for president.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

In fact, in the most recent polls taken, Senator Obama leads McCain in EVERY poll except one.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions),

Give me a break. Because Senator Obama doesn't conform to the establishment and wear a US Flag lapel pin on his jacket, you think he is less patriotic? I don't wear one either, so that makes me unpatriotic? I don't think so. I would expect that type of rhetoric from people living in communist countries not Americans.
You've just given me one more reason to support Senator Obama. Thank you.

HALFA
 
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yowza
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting PA110 (Reply 39):

NIKV69, you are one scary dude! Do you really think every American wearing a sport jacket should be wearing a flag lapel pin? If I fail to wear a pin on my lapel, do you really suggest that makes me any less respectful of this country?

I had a really good Russian friend who was continually given a hard time at school for not wearing a patriotic pin that all kids at his school were supposed to wear. It looks as if that's what NIK wants the US to heads towards.

YOWza
 
n521na
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
We all have our own views on saluting the flag, some will put their hand over their hearts some won't, things like taking your hat off when the national anthem is played is just RESPECT for the symbol of this country which IMO gets worse every day, but I will say this. Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions), voting against English as our official language and now having the flag of a Marxist is one of his campaign offices is telling. If you want to say it's a non-issue fine but I don't want my president behaving in this way.

Thank god you are the minority in this country. If you're gonna spew crap, do it out of your ass not your mouth.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 30):
I'm just curious as to the thoughts buzzing around in his head. He is running for president, you know, and I think trying to figure out what kind of values he has is rather important.

Then read his book or shut your mouth and stop basing your opinions on trivial events...
 Yeah sure
 
n521na
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:51 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
Refusing to wear the lapel pin,(which I feel we all should when we wear a sports jacket at fucntions), voting against English as our official language and now having the flag of a Marxist is one of his campaign offices is telling. If you want to say it's a non-issue fine but I don't want my president behaving in this way.

Anyone else see the irony in this?
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Refusing to wear a mandatory identification pin is definitely the surest sign of an enemy of freedom...!  mischievous 
 
N1120A
Posts: 26862
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:09 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):

I love Bill Maher's take on that issue.

Absolutely brilliant.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20133
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:11 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 33):
I thought every country has a national anthem.

Yes, we have a national anthem. However, the vast majority don't feel compelled to chant a pledge in robot-like fashion each day at work (or school), nor do we feel any compulsion to salute the flag or the anthem. What does it show other than a Pavlovian-like response?
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:37 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 47):
the vast majority don't feel compelled to chant a pledge in robot-like fashion each day at work (or school),

I have not seen the pledge of allegiance said at a school since I was in 2nd grade. I have never heard of it being said at a workplace.

We play our national anthem before a sporting event, but I know we are not the only country to do that.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Obama And Another Flag Problem

Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:07 pm



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 24):
True. I was referring more to the people who spout off about how patriotic they are, and at the same time drive around with conservative flags on their huge pickup trucks shouting "the south will rise again!"

Did you mean "Confederate" Flags here or are you implying something about conservatives?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
Apparently you haven't been to a NASCAR race, everyone salutes the flag. I seem to recall seeing that a lot in other sports as well.

Yea, but those same people think the last four words of the National Anthem are "Gentleman, Start Your Engines".  wink 
(Yes, I'm allowed to make fun of NASCAR and its fans I get to deal with it and them for the rest of the week down here in Daytona.)

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