Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:39 pm

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/0...10-billion-economic-stimulus-plan/

*$150 billion effort to create 5 million "green collar" jobs to develop more-environmentally friendly energy sources.
*remaining $60 billion would fund a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to rebuild the nation's highways, bridges, airports and other public facilities. Obama said the construction fund would create nearly 2 million jobs, many of them in construction directly
*Obama said the money for his spending proposals will come from ending the Iraq War, cutting tax breaks for corporations, taxing carbon pollution and raising taxes on high income earners.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
*Obama said the money for his spending proposals will come from ending the Iraq War, cutting tax breaks for corporations, taxing carbon pollution and raising taxes on high income earners.

Meanwhile back in the real world, European countries are cutting taxes on their corporations, Iraq may actually fall into a civil war if we depart, energy prices are already high enough to be of a concern to the economy, and the wealthiest already pay a far larger share in proportion to the rest of the population. I guess all men are created equal somehow slips by the by when it comes to paying taxes. I also guess he hasn't noticed that road construction takes a lot more than high school dropouts with shovels nowadays and that the Treasury receipts are way up since the tax cuts went into effect. But that's ok, we've been down this road and wasted just as much money before so people could feel good.
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:40 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
Iraq may actually fall into a civil war if we depart,

So be it. It's not like they haven't had time to get their house in order. The Malaki government just refuses to step up and grow some balls. They rather just sit back and take our cash and do absolutely nothing.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
energy prices are already high enough to be of a concern to the economy

Energy prices aren't high enough to persuade folks from getting out of their Excursions/Escalades/Yukons/etc... and driving something that wastes less fuel, and continues to make us reliant on Mid-East crazies.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
the wealthiest already pay a far larger share in proportion to the rest of the population

Not really. Only fractionally more. There is nothing wrong with a progressive tax which would still leave multi-billionaires with ample money to fund their investments.
 
scottieprecord
Posts: 1208
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:55 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
energy prices are already high enough to be of a concern to the economy

And energy profits are as well..

There are two thing I don't have a problem with the government spending money on - defense and infrastructure.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting PA110 (Reply 2):
Not really.

How so? The top 20% pay something like 80% of the tax bill.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:02 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
The top 20% pay something like 80% of the tax bill.

And how much does the top 20% represent in terms of total income?
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:05 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
How so? The top 20% pay something like 80% of the tax bill.

That's fuzzy math, and you know it. The top 20% pay only proportionally more in relation to their income than the other 80%. If you want to have a flat dollar amount tax, so that everyone pays the same amount, it would amount to chump change for some, and be completely beyond the means of others. That's why income tax is based on a percentage of income. While those in higher tax brackets pay a small percentage more, there isn't a huge difference between the percentage of income paid by the middle class and the percentage of income paid by the wealthiest 20%. The fact is that the top 20% earn more than the remaining 80%.

[Edited 2008-02-14 13:13:03]
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:05 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
And how much does the top 20% represent in terms of total income?

About the same....80%
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:13 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
Meanwhile back in the real world, European countries are cutting taxes on their corporations

Together with loopholes and subsidies.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
and the wealthiest already pay a far larger share in proportion to the rest of the population.

I'm sure the poor, poor rich will be in the prayers of the unemployed and the working poor!  Yeah sure
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:32 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
I'm sure the poor, poor rich will be in the prayers of the unemployed and the working poor!

They better be since they're the ones creating the sustainable jobs.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:33 pm



Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):
That's fuzzy math, and you know it.

The top income earners pay 40-50% of their income in taxes; the bottom pay 0%. I'd say that's quite a large difference, whether it's in relation to their wealth, their income, their 1992 with holdings, or a small office plant.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
I'm sure the poor, poor rich will be in the prayers of the unemployed and the working poor!

True, but I'm also sure those unemployed/working poor would change their mind so fast it'd make your head spin if 40% of their income suddenly went to Uncle Sam.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
cutting tax breaks for corporations,

I'd still like to know how anyone (and by that I mean Democrats) think that making it more difficult for corporations to do business translates into more jobs and/or higher pay? They've also tried to reduce gas prices by charging gas producers more....who is doing their economics???
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:41 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
The top income earners pay 40-50% of their income in taxes; the bottom pay 0%.

More fuzzy math? How about a fair comparison? The bottom pay 0% because they don't earn enough to even contribute. Why not compare the middle class (the single largest group of tax payers) with the wealthiest earners?
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Why not compare the middle class (the single largest group of tax payers) with the wealthiest earners?

Be my guest.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:01 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Why not compare the middle class (the single largest group of tax payers) with the wealthiest earners?

Well MD11 is pretty much right in terms of the numbers. I have had some good opportunities to look at this tax / income breakdown in some detail.


"Middle class families" under $60,000 basically pay nothing in taxes. They get it all back. Oh, they pay to tag their cars. But its probably far less than the roadways and schools they are utilizing.

People under $30k per year, with a kid or 2 actually get money BACK from the govt in their form of Earned Income Tax Credit. So they don't "pay taxes," but the reverse. They pay "negative taxes." They get a check from Uncle Sam, as a reward for working low wage jobs. This is an effort to help poor people, while promoting work. It is considered a success.

"Professional" Middle class $80k - $500k are the real meat of the income tax system. (from 70th percentile to 99th). They actually pay rates over 30% of gross income. Some even 40% if you include property taxes and the like. So they are really paying a heavy burden!

There is a kink above $85k where you pay an insane amount of "marginal tax" for every dollar you earn. Numerous govt programs for the middle class phase out at once. Therefore, it is encourages people to not earn over $85k or so. It is barely worth it unless you are talking $120k plus. This is a problem that comes from our complex, sometimes conflicting tax goals.

Above the 99th percentile, the top 1 million or so filers, are generally multimillionaires and investors. Cap gains tax rate is 15% right now. So they pay LOW LOW rates. Yet, revenues have climbed after these tax cuts, because investors have cashed in gains they had built up. So Uncle Sam is doing fine. Our income tax receipts (including of the top 1%) have never been higher.

If we hike taxes on the top 1%, or hike the capital gains tax, revenues may fall. That's because their income is discretionary and so is their residency (i.e., they can move the the Bahamas if they feel like it). So even though it's unfair, the low taxes on the super-rich have been supporting strong federal tax revenues.

It's just our govt spends so damn much money, so mindlessly, that we are still short.

[Edited 2008-02-14 14:05:17]
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:30 pm

I only found stats going back to 2000. I could not find any recent stats... (plus it is still the middle of the work day and I actually do have to do something to earn my salary other than hang out on a.net)

[Edited 2008-02-14 14:33:20]
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:49 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
cutting tax breaks for corporations



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1):
Meanwhile back in the real world, European countries are cutting taxes on their corporations

Not to mention US Corporate tax rates are among the highest in the world. Only Germany comes close in the Industrialized world.

Would you prefer that the corporations simply close their doors and go offshore? Oops, they already are - a little bitty hint that raising their tax rates some more might not be a particularly good idea.
 
CupraIbiza
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:31 pm



Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
The top income earners pay 40-50% of their income in taxes; the bottom pay 0%.

Doesnt the top income tax rate kick in at over $350,000 per annum income??
Until a few years ago our top tax rate of 47% kicked in at $62000 (not much above the median wage) It is now 45% over $150.000

Still a far cry from $350,000
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:57 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):

"Middle class families" under $60,000 basically pay nothing in taxes. They get it all back. Oh, they pay to tag their cars. But its probably far less than the roadways and schools they are utilizing.

Excuse me? Then maybe you can explain why I pay an average of just over 33% a year on my taxes at $44K/year. Maybe I need to go to your tax person.

I'm lucky to get a grand back, after I've all ready payed in about $14k.
 
comorin
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:25 am

Taxes on corporations, direct and indirect, are already way too high and cause economic friction. Firms need to pay some tax for an economic and security infrastructure that makes business possible, but beyond that, every dollar taxed is one dollar less to be spent on wages.

As for high income earners, punitive taxes do not make sense. High spenders and savers do as much to an economy as a cash stimulus. If ordinary people have a shot a becoming rich, then rich people should have a shot at becoming richer too. Look a the flood of 'Giving Back' from Valley and Hedge Fund types over the last few years.

The US needs a new system that encourages an onshore flow of wealth as it is getting really competitive out there. The byzantine tax code needs to be dumped for a fairer and more simplified system.

The one thing I do agree with Obama is the need for infrastructure investment - Bloomberg praised it - as mayor of NYC he thinks the US is "...becoming a Third World Country"

http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/bloombe...g.federal.government.2.654315.html

It'll take a leader, not a politician to make it all happen again in the USA.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:44 am



Quoting Lobster (Reply 18):
Excuse me? Then maybe you can explain why I pay an average of just over 33% a year on my taxes at $44K/year. Maybe I need to go to your tax person.

Sounds like you are single. For 2007, a Head of Household who makes $44k/yr with 3 children qualifying for tax credits will owe $333 in taxes, for a rate of 0.76%.

See this:

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/Tax1040.html

Your state may have additional taxes on you that I do not know.

Single people pay higher taxes... do not qualify for child tax credits... etc.
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:17 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 20):
Sounds like you are single.

Yup. Forgot about that part.  Wink
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:07 am



Quoting PA110 (Reply 2):
They rather just sit back and take our cash and do absolutely nothing.

Spoken like a true TV warrior, give em 1 hour and 3 breaks to clean up all the problems. Ignore any progress being made.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 2):
Energy prices aren't high enough to persuade folks from getting out of their Excursions/Escalades/Yukons/etc

It's not those people you have to worry about. Virtually every product you buy gets to that store by truck, the materials to make the product get to the factory by truck. If their price to deliver goes up, who do you think will bear the brunt of the price increase?

Quoting PA110 (Reply 2):
There is nothing wrong with a progressive tax which would still leave multi-billionaires with ample money to fund their investments.

As I said, every man is created equal, until tax time. And tell me, who has the greater ability to move their money globally, the rich or the poor?

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 3):
And energy profits are as well..

Ever stop to take a look at the volume of business that produced those profits? Or there relation in terms of percentage of transaction?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
I'm sure the poor, poor rich will be in the prayers of the unemployed and the working poor!

They better be since they're the ones creating the sustainable jobs.

 checkmark  My exact sentiments, but remember poor Klaus lives in a world totally dependent on government to solve all your social problems.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):
That's fuzzy math, and you know it.

Not to the people who have to pay so others can receive.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
The bottom pay 0% because they don't earn enough to even contribute.

Yet they somehow earn enough to get a rebate and in many cases, a refund. scratchchin 

Quoting PA110 (Reply 15):
(plus it is still the middle of the work day and I actually do have to do something to earn my salary other than hang out on a.net)

Well thanks for being insulting, not everyone's schedule is based on 9a-5p. I'll be thinking of you at 3am tomorrow when I sit down and start gathering info for your 9 am departure.

Funny how in all this, there is not mention of simply cutting government spending by 210 billion dollars.
 
greatansett
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:38 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:25 am

This is a recession - No stimulus package is needed  banghead  . The government needs to seriously cut spending whist simultaneously lower taxation. What is so sad is that the US federal reserve has swiped interest rates by .75% (i think) to stimulate the economy from the subprime mess yet it is easy credit that created the disaster in the first place. I dont like the republicans over the issue of Iraq yet when it comes to the economy, conservatism is needed.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15866
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:41 am



Quoting PA110 (Reply 2):
Energy prices aren't high enough to persuade folks from getting out of their Excursions/Escalades/Yukons/etc

Which isn't the big-picture problem behind high energy prices. It's because most of that oil is used to fire electrical plants, fuel delivery trucks, locomotives, aircraft, etc - the true engines of economic development.

And when those costs go up, the cost of ALL goods goes up.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:55 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
I'm sure the poor, poor rich will be in the prayers of the unemployed and the working poor!

They better be since they're the ones creating the sustainable jobs.

What kind of feudal society are you coming from?  eyebrow 

Jobs are for the most part created by businesses in a modern society to buy the services of the respective employees, not as charity from rich people.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 22):
My exact sentiments, but remember poor Klaus lives in a world totally dependent on government to solve all your social problems.

You don't get out much, do you?
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Jobs are for the most part created by businesses in a modern society to buy the services of the respective employees, not as charity from rich people.

The Democrats always want to kill/tax into the ground business, and simultaneously create jobs and wealth for the moving goal post that is the middle class. It makes no sense.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3265
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
The Democrats always want to kill/tax into the ground business, and simultaneously create jobs and wealth for the moving goal post that is the middle class. It makes no sense.

Well, neither does cutting taxes and running up huge government spending under the Republicans, so .....
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:08 pm



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 27):
Well, neither does cutting taxes

Cutting the amount of money the government takes from you doesn't increase your wealth? How's that?
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:59 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
The Democrats always want to kill/tax into the ground business, and simultaneously create jobs and wealth for the moving goal post that is the middle class. It makes no sense.

You can thank the outrageous waste and even at the same time tax relief for the rich under Bush for the automatic consequence: An absolutely inevitable massive tax hike to pay for the entire party.

The democrats simply have to face reality in this matter, and in contrast to the republicans, they actually do.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3265
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
Cutting the amount of money the government takes from you doesn't increase your wealth? How's that?

Nice selective quoting. Cutting taxes AND huge increases of government spending (mostly under Republicans) makes no sense from a long term economic perspective.
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:18 pm



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 30):
Nice selective quoting. Cutting taxes AND huge increases of government spending (mostly under Republicans) makes no sense from a long term economic perspective.

Exactly. It's always left to the Democrats to clean up the messes left behind by Republicans.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:41 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Jobs are for the most part created by businesses in a modern society to buy the services of the respective employees, not as charity from rich people.

Yes, lets just ignore that capital that it takes to start and expand the business. We all know that just drops from the sky as needed.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
You don't get out much, do you?

I get out enough to have seen both types of government, I know which I prefer to live under.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
The democrats simply have to face reality in this matter, and in contrast to the republicans, they actually do.

Yes, again lets just ignore the tax receipts of the previous 4 years and the sustained growth, record productivity, low unemployment, and stable interest rates shall we?

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 30):
Cutting taxes AND huge increases of government spending (mostly under Republicans) makes no sense from a long term economic perspective.

Agreed. This is where the last Congress and this President has let us down. Cutting taxes without decreasing the size and scope of government. But that is the very problem with this Presidents and Senator Obama's stimulus plans. Unless expenditures are reduced, all they do is rob Peter to pay Paul.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 31):
Exactly. It's always left to the Democrats to clean up the messes left behind by Republicans.

Like Jimmy Carter did after Presidents Nixon and Ford? As stated, we don't need to repeat that part of our history.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3265
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:59 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 32):
But that is the very problem with this Presidents and Senator Obama's stimulus plans. Unless expenditures are reduced, all they do is rob Peter to pay Paul.

However, the key part of Obama's plan is to get out of Iraq (and stop paying $1 billion/day or whatever ghastly amount we are spending over there) in order to fund these other things.

So, it is not all robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's reemphasizing WHERE we spend our funds.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:01 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
An absolutely inevitable massive tax hike to pay for the entire party

Well I didn't appreciate the massive spending, but I hold out hope that the massive future bill will be funded by an equally massive and necessary reduction in government.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Obama Unveils $210 Billion Stimulus Plan

Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:10 pm



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 33):
So, it is not all robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's reemphasizing WHERE we spend our funds.

Again, the Constitution demands that the Federal Government provide for the common defense. It is silent about giant public works projects with dubious results. Aside from that, as long as there is government debt, and there will be as long as Social Security taxes are regarded as general funds, any stimulus plan is doing nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos