I'm constantly hearing about what a horrible place Detroit is, and just today saw on MSN that Detroit made the top of the list of "America's Most Miserable Cities." This got me thinking about how bad it must really be. Is it?

What is it about Detroit that makes it so horrible? The people? Is it dirty? It must be dangerous, but how dangerous? Are there any nice, redeeming areas of the city?

Don't fall for that media hype. Detroit is awesome. The Tigers are so good I have to change my underwear.

This summer, why not vacation in the Motor City? You can watch the Tigers win the World Series after beating the A.L. East by 20 games.

Sincerely,
Stretch8

I'm going to Detroit this summer to visit my girlfriend's famliy. I'm quite interested to see for my self what the city is really like.

Time for a local to defend his hometown....again  

There are only some parts of Detroit that are really bad. As long as you stay in the suburbs you should be fine. If you really have to see the downtown area, just try not to do it in the wee hours of the morning.

In several places I don't find the feel of Detroit to be any different from another city.

So again I ask, what is so bad about Detroit that keeps it on everybody's shitlist?

Well, for one thing, Airlinelover lives there.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 3): There are only some parts of Detroit that are really bad. As long as you stay in the suburbs you should be fine. If you really have to see the downtown area, just try not to do it in the wee hours of the morning.

So let me get this straight. The city of Detroit is not too bad....as long as you don't actually go into the city?

Sounds like paradise  

It's just that driving towards the downtown area you see a lot of abandoned houses which are now crackhouses. Other than that it's the usual graffiti and a few gangs.

But in the actual downtown area, it's fine. Since the superbowl, the downtown area has been renovated for the better.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 6): So let me get this straight. The city of Detroit is not too bad....as long as you don't actually go into the city?

No the city is fine. It's just a matter of when you head down there. Anytime after 11pm is kinda asking yourself to become a drug dealer the next day.

Having lived in Michigan previously let me give my 2 cents worth. The city has its problems, one being the fact that it has never had a good Mayor, one to lead it and mold it into what it deserves to be and or become.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 3): There are only some parts of Detroit that are really bad.

Agree. But the problem is that those areas that are bad, are REALLY bad. Makes for a fun time "touring" the hood though.

So are part of the problems in Detroit due to GM and Ford abandoning Michigan?

I hear high tech companies are setting up shop in the area which is good.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 4): So again I ask, what is so bad about Detroit that keeps it on everybody's shitlist?

Because it takes more than a year to turn a city around. Cleveland did it and it took a good 15 years but times are tough now for them as well(I lived there too). Once they get rid of their thug mayor King Kwame and the voters get their heads out of their asses and vote for someone that is good for a change, then maybe things will get better. There are some really crappy parts but downtown is nicer, Comerica is an awesome baseball venue, the casinos are safe and pretty nice. Also the suburbs of Detroit are some of the richest in the nation, plus nice cities like Ann Arbor, which is where I live, and Pontiac are all within 45 minutes of downtown.

Someday it'll get better but I don't know if Detroit will ever be able to turn it around completely until it stops relying solely on the auto industry.

It's a great city in my mind. I live in the garbage dump across the river known as Windsor. You can't go wrong with a city that has the Red Wings!

Quoting Lobster (Reply 10): Agree. But the problem is that those areas that are bad, are REALLY bad. Makes for a fun time "touring" the hood though.

One of the first things I did when I moved to Windsor 5 years ago was go touring the hood's in an old jalopy with some friends. Good times!

In my opinion, Detroit isn't that bad of a city at all. I have been going there once a year for all my life and have yet to have the slightest problem. Sure we are visiting family in the suburbs, but we always take a trip into the city to catch the Auto Show or a Tigers/Wings game. I always come back in one piece. There are a lot of abandoned buildings, but over the past few years, the city has really cleaned up. Chances are you won't get mugged/assaulted/raped/murdered if you're not somewhere you shouldn't be. Standing outside the RenCen or Cobo at noon will pose no threats whatsoever. Something to keep in mind, Oakland County, just outside of Detroit, is one of, if not the, richest county in the entire country.

Just pay attention to where you are and what you're doing just like you would in NYC, LA, SF, and you'll be fine.

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 13): I live in the garbage dump across the river known as Windsor.

Come on now, it's not that bad. They've got the Casino, and the... well... yeah... you might be right.  

Quoting CMB320 (Thread starter):
This got me thinking about how bad it must really be. Is it?


Hey, at least it's not Memphis!

I use to spend summers in Detroit ten years ago. It was pretty grimy and impoverished then, and I'm sure it's deteriorated and decayed even more since then as more auto plants have closed down. I've been all over the USA, and Detroit was the only place I've ever been where it was a common occurrence to drive down the freeway and see burning cars on the side streets as you pass by! I even saw a couple bullet holes in buildings in Detroit!

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 4):

So again I ask, what is so bad about Detroit that keeps it on everybody's shitlist?

It's on people's shit list and the list of most dangerous/worse cities for two reasons... The first, because of it's high rate of violent crime. The second being the urban decay of the city. That's what it comes down to. Places like Detroit, Memphis, Baltimore, D.C., St Louis... Yeah, they're great cities, but they get their reputations from the high crime rates they contend with.

[Edited 2008-02-22 21:03:13]

Detroit has the potential to be a GREAT city if they ever clean up the government and spend some serious money on renewing the city.

The reason is simple: they have a potentially excellent transportation infrastructure with plentiful road, rail, air and even water transport links. It could be a great showcase for a lot of new industries that could replace the rapidly falling automobile industry.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 4): So again I ask, what is so bad about Detroit that keeps it on everybody's shitlist?

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 16): Detroit has the potential to be a GREAT city if they ever clean up the government and spend some serious money on renewing the city.

Perhaps the city could convince Glock or Beretta firearms to build a manufacturing plant in Detroit? The city could collect lots of tax revenue, and the arms makers could simplify the process of getting their high demand products to Detroit by having the manufacturing plant located nearby! Thus cutting down on transit time! Instead of weeks, new "gats" could get out on the streets in mere hours after a third person transfer... Or even quicker maybe if gang members jacked one of the trucks leaving the factory!

Detroit is a dump, you couldn't pay me enough to live there. It makes Rochester, New York look thriving and industrious (despite KROC and LHMark). It makes me want to live in Grand Forks, ND. for 30 years of my life. Detroit (city proper) itself is one giant ghetto, filled with corruption, gangs, and drugs. Downtown has a decent skyline (with lots of vacant offices), but everybody gets the fuck out after work. And everybody wishes they worked closer to their homes in the suburbs... which aren't too much to write home about either. I haven't been there in a few years and they built their new stadiums downtown, but I don't know if there is actual urban renewal going on. There are some cities where building a stadium in the ghetto doesn't matter, and if I had to guess, Detroit is one of those cities.

Granholm-Kilpatrick '08!
A winning team!

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): I use to spend summers in Detroit ten years ago. It was pretty grimy and impoverished then, and I'm sure it's deteriorated and decayed even more since then as more auto plants have closed down.

au contraire. Since the superbowl, the city doesn't look nearly as bad.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 17): Perhaps the city could convince Glock or Beretta firearms to build a manufacturing plant in Detroit? The city could collect lots of tax revenue, and the arms makers could simplify the process of getting their high demand products to Detroit by having the manufacturing plant located nearby! Thus cutting down on transit time! Instead of weeks, new "gats" could get out on the streets in mere hours after a third person transfer... Or even quicker maybe if gang members jacked one of the trucks leaving the factory!

   talk about tongue in cheek

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18): but everybody gets the fuck out after work

that's the case everywhere

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): I'm sure it's deteriorated and decayed even more since then

And I'm sure I know where your head is. Detroit has actually improved its downtown quite a bit with the addition of Comerica Park, Ford Field, renovating old buildings, tearing down abandoned ones, and so on.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): a common occurrence to drive down the freeway and see burning cars on the side streets as you pass by! I even saw a couple bullet holes in buildings in Detroit!

Common occurrence my ass. I've been there a lot and have yet to see a single burning car. Bullet holes? When did you become CSI? They could be anything, and again I have yet to see these "bullet holes."

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18):

 

The point is, those of you who bash Detroit are doing so blindly based off yes, facts. However, if you actually visit there like you would any other city, during normal hours, and stay in populated centers, you will be just fine. Like I said, I and all of my family who visit the actual city itself, have yet to experience any violent crime. A majority of it is intra-gang and takes place at odd hours outside the downtown area.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 20):

thank you. If it weren't for that posting, I quite honestly would've told them myself to get their heads out of where the sun doesn't shine.

now to get on my RR list

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 17):

Hah! The only cars on the side of the road seen daily are those with flat tires.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18):

that is probably the biggest load of crap I've heard about my hometown from anyone, enough said. The downtown area at daylight is no different than that of Dallas in terms of safety.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 20): Common occurrence my ass. I've been there a lot and have yet to see a single burning car. Bullet holes? When did you become CSI? They could be anything, and again I have yet to see these "bullet holes."

It's not a bullet hole he saw, it's that decal that 16 year olds put on their cars to make them seem bad ass.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): I've been all over the USA, and Detroit was the only place I've ever been where it was a common occurrence to drive down the freeway and see burning cars on the side streets as you pass by!

There's the over exaggeration of the century. What did you see? Be honest, one car that overheated and caught fire? Come on man, this ain't GTA here.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 14): Come on now, it's not that bad. They've got the Casino, and the... well... yeah... you might be right

Yeah y'all know it's a dive, you've experienced it.   That's why I'm glad I still get away to Toronto for the summer's and a lot of weekends.

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 23):
There's the over exaggeration of the century. What did you see? Be honest, one car that overheated and caught fire? Come on man, this ain't GTA here.



Nope, the summer I'm thinking about (1995 or 1996) I clearly remember seeing three burning cars on different occasions late at night as we drove past some shady neighborhoods on the free way. One was in Linwood, the other was in the area of East State Fair between John R and I-75. I think the third might have been in Southfield, but I can't remember.





Quoting JetsGo (Reply 20):
Bullet holes? When did you become CSI? They could be anything, and again I have yet to see these "bullet holes."



It's not like I saw lots of them, but yes, I did see one below the outside window at a Shell station where they had bulletproof windows around the clerk at the cash register. It was near DET airport somewhere. I've been shooting all my life and you don't need to be CSI to identify a bullet hole, as they're pretty recognizable in metal. There was also another year I was there and we were out driving around late one night in Romulous when we passed a homicide scene with the yellow tape roping off an area and you could see the white sheet covering a body on the sidewalk.

My uncle use to be an industrial abrasives salesman for 3M company and I use to accompany him around town to the different factories where he did business. A lot of these aren't in the better areas of town and I got to see a lot of what Detroit was like. The entire city is Ghetto, and so are the people and their culture that live in it! However, I will admit some of the suburbs are nice! My uncle was from West Bloomfield/Orchard Lake area and I use to enjoy spending summers there.


I'm from Portland, Maine though, and we have maybe 2-4 murders per year here, and less then 10 per year for the whole state. Almost no shootings, very little gang activity or violent crime. For me Detroit is bad ass! Just not as bad as Memphis or New Orleans! Flint is kind of like Detroit's little brother that yearns to be just like the bad big brother someday when it grows older!

[Edited 2008-02-23 19:55:18]

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 24): late at night as we drove past some shady neighborhoods on the free way.

Problem number one. Driving in shady neighborhoods at night. No different from any other city's armpit.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 24): driving around late one night in Romulous

Problem number two. Driving in Romulous as night. Compare to East Palo Alto, Compton, or NYC.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 24): I'm from Portland, Maine though, and we have maybe 2-4 murders per year here, and less then 10 per year for the whole state.

Problem number three. Apples to oranges. How many people live in Maine again, let alone Portland? What about Detroit?

You could have seen the burning cars anywhere, especially since you have no clue why they were burning. You could have seen the exaggerated bullet holes, which you later retracted to a single bullet hole, anywhere. Even in beloved Maine.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 19): Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18): but everybody gets the fuck out after work that's the case everywhere

Not everywhere. There are cities that actually manage to retain people other than from 8-6pm.

-Mir

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 11): So are part of the problems in Detroit due to GM and Ford abandoning Michigan?

that is one reason.

Quote: Detroit in the top spot, with its sister city Flint ranked third, is probably not a great shock. "If Detroit were a baseball team, we'd say they are mired in a slump," says Sperling. Both Detroit and Flint have suffered tremendously from the auto industry downturn. Flint's plight was immortalized in the Michael Moore movie Roger & Me, which chronicles Moore's attempts to meet with then General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) Chief Executive Roger Smith. Crime and unemployment are closely linked, according to Sperling. Our three most miserable places bear that out (Stockton, Calif., ranks second). All three are among the eight worst cities in terms of both unemployment and violent crime.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/29/det...flint-biz-cz_kb_0130miserable.html

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 16): Detroit has the potential to be a GREAT city if they ever clean up the government and spend some serious money on renewing the city. The reason is simple: they have a potentially excellent transportation infrastructure with plentiful road, rail, air and even water transport links. It could be a great showcase for a lot of new industries that could replace the rapidly falling automobile industry.

They also have a huge crime problem. And their employment numbers are likewise grim. You can't argue with those statistics.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 20): The point is, those of you who bash Detroit are doing so blindly based off yes, facts. However, if you actually visit there like you would any other city, during normal hours, and stay in populated centers, you will be just fine. Like I said, I and all of my family who visit the actual city itself, have yet to experience any violent crime. A majority of it is intra-gang and takes place at odd hours outside the downtown area.

Here's the problem with your rationale. I can name a number of large cities with lower violent crime rates than Detroit. And even if the crime doesn't affect most citizens, it IS a reason for casual visitors to avoid the city.

I visited Manhattan a few years ago, after an absence of 15 years. I could not believe the improvement. Detroit hasn't made the same effort, or if it has, those efforts haven't been as successful.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 25):
Problem number one. Driving in shady neighborhoods at night. No different from any other city's armpit.



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 25):
Problem number two. Driving in Romulous as night. Compare to East Palo Alto, Compton, or NYC.



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 25):
Problem number three. Apples to oranges. How many people live in Maine again, let alone Portland? What about Detroit?
Well, I've been to a lot of cities all over the word, and only in the USA is it so common for there to be so many different areas in a city to avoid at certain times, or all the time. I live off and on in Berlin, Germany with 3.5 million people and you can basically go anywhere at anytime day or night and hardly anybody ever gets shot, raped, and all the other bad things that happen in American cities. Yet in this country it doesn't matter how bad a city is, you always hear residents there saying how it's not so bad and it's pretty safe. The reality is American cities aren't so safe overall. I consider a city safe when I can go out freely at anytime of day, anywhere in a city and know the chances of any kind of incident happening are slim. Now I know all cities have their good and bad areas in the States, but overall some are a lot worse then others when it comes to crime, poverty, urban decay, etc. Detroit just happens to be one among the worst when you look at the stats. When people live in a city, they get use to all the crime and chaos that happens and it becomes normal to them and tolerated. But when you come from a state's that's rural for the most part, with little crime, then you have a different perspective of what's considered unsafe.


Maine has 1.3 million total population. Less then ten murders per year. Portland's about 130,000. Then you have Boston with a similar population compared to the whole state of Maine and their murder rates are in the triple digits, so it's not all about population densities. It's that American cities are dangerous in comparison to other Western countries.

I know what I saw in Detroit, and I've spent a bit of time there over the years. That's really all I can say, take it or leave it. And even if I was making up the thing about the bullet holes (which I'm not) you know there's plenty of gang shootings happening in Detroit everyday, and you know not all those bullets hit their intended targets. Therefore, there must be lots of bullet holes all over Detroit if you looked in the right place... And I just happened to see one. It's really not that unbelievable is it? If you want me to be fair, I've seen spent shell casings on the ground in Boston as well. So it's not just Detroit that gets shot up.

Oh, and I use to read the paper a lot in Detroit when I was there... I've got to say I've never been to a city with more carjackings then I use to read about on a daily basis in the paper or saw on the news. Los Angeles and Miami had a lot too, but never as often as what I heard about it Detroit.

There's worse, but Detroit isn't exactly Salt Lake City with the Mormons!

[Edited 2008-02-23 21:35:33]

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): I even saw a couple bullet holes in buildings in Detroit!

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 20): I have yet to see these "bullet holes."

FWIW, = the giant Uniroyal tire on I-94 has a lot of bullet holes in it.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18): It makes me want to live in Grand Forks, ND. for 30 years of my life.

Oh come on now....let's not get carried away!   




The whole Detroit argument is moot, anyway, given recent events:



2H4

LHMark:

Thanks for the plug, but I tend to freeball during baseball season.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15): drive down the freeway and see burning cars on the side street

Those are called "Detroit Candles".

I would love to go through some of those abandoned buildings, and not those 2 or 3 story ones, I'm talking the high rises that are just plain empty and boarded up. I heard that there was a paintball place somewhere down there were there was a course set up in an old building. That would be awesome but I have yet to find it.


So by everyones reaction to Detroit I am guessing that no one would be interested in coming into town for a big A.net meeting? lol

I was in Detroit a couple of years ago and found it to be no worse than some other US cities that I have been to. Sure there are alot of abandonded buildings close to downtown but I felt safe there. There seemed to be a large police prescence around town, especially by Comerica Park before and after a Tigers game.

Detroit is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. I have seen the good and bad of it. Downtown is actually very nice especially after the Super Bowl. Ford Field and Comerica Park are great, The Ren-Cen Center/Riverfront Area is spectacular. DTW is one of the best airports in the country especially the World Gateway.

Also, I am really a fan of Sterling Heights just North of Detroit. Detroit has a lot of suburbs that are awesome.

The point is dont be stupid. Keep your eyes open and you will be fine.

-Delta767300ER

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18): Detroit is a dump, you couldn't pay me enough to live there. It makes Rochester, New York look thriving and industrious (despite KROC and LHMark).

Says the guy who's first car was a 2 year old Land Rover and is subsidized by his dad seeing as that kiosk he works at in the mall can't quite pay for the level of snobbery he is used too.

I grew up in the Detroit suburb of Birmingham, and I still care about the area, even though I live in Minneapolis now. Here are my thoughts:

1. The Detroit area is really not that dangerous to tourists, or residents of the suburbs, as long as you use good judgement. I lived in the Detroit area from 1972 until 2000, and in that time, the only crime incidents that affected people I knew that I can remember were a few burglaries in Birmingham (none of them involving violence), and one incident where one of my neighbors had her SUV stolen from the Abbey Movie Theater in Troy (I don't know if the Abbey is still there; it was across 14 Mile Road from Oakland Mall for many years).

Most tourists or suburbanites who get in trouble in Detroit simply were in the wrong place, either accidentally or deliberately. These people would get in trouble anywhere.

2. I've never visited another metropolitan area that has so much blight. Last year, my parents and I drove down Woodward Avenue from Birmingham to the Detroit Institute of Arts. South of 8 Mile Road, there were very few neighborhoods that looked well maintained, and economically viable - and Woodward has historically been the Detroit area's "Main Street".

Back in the days when Pro Air flew out of DET, I drove into the airport by taking I-94 to Gratiot to Connor. I was simply amazed how bad the neighborhoods around DET looked. I'm sure the run down neighborhoods around DET didn't help Pro Air, because many passengers probably were afraid to leave their cars at DET.

Some of the Detroit suburbs look just as bad - Pontiac, for example. If my memory is correct, 30 years ago, GM employed 86,000 people in Pontiac, at one car assembly plant, two pickup truck assembly plants, a bus plant, and numerous smaller factories. Now, GM is down to just one of the pickup truck assembly plants and less than 10,000 total workers in the city - even though GM built an office park where the bus plant used to stand. The car plant is an empty field, the other pickup truck plant is still standing, but empty, and abandoned homes and businesses are on nearly every street in the city now that so many former workers have moved out as their jobs were eliminated.

An article in The Wall Street Journal last year said that some former industrial cities are accepting that their populations will never recover from the factory "right sizings" of the last 30 years, and are turning entire neighborhoods with large numbers of abandoned homes and businesses into parks, to make the cities more attractive for the people who remain. Detroit, and some of its suburbs, desperately need to do the same thing. Detroit's population is down from 2 Million in 1950 to less than 1 Million today. If even half of the abandoned buildings were turned into park land, Detroit could become one of the most beautiful cities in the country!

So, my overall opinion: Detroit really isn't that bad, but it looks like it IS that bad.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 35): Back in the days when Pro Air flew out of DET, I drove into the airport by taking I-94 to Gratiot to Connor. I was simply amazed how bad the neighborhoods around DET looked. I'm sure the run down neighborhoods around DET didn't help Pro Air, because many passengers probably were afraid to leave their cars at DET.

I love going into DET! The people there are so friendly! Oh wait, no they aren't. The people at the Murray freight ramp and at the FBO are so rude. I always wonder if the windows in the tower are bulletproof? That has to be the worst ATC assignment there is AND it is a 24/7 operation. It is pretty depressing flying into there, I have a video somewhere landing there. There was talk of closing the Coleman A. Young airport a couple years back, wouldn't break my heart to be honest. I still can't believe they brought heavy iron in there! Some of our Lears can't even get in there because of the length sometimes!

A few guys I fly with have made the mistake of letting their hunger get to them while waiting for freight there for hours on end and they have wondered off airport to find something. There is a Dominos or Little Caesars that you have to order through a 2 inch thick piece of glass and they won't even let you inside anymore.

There is one thing I see at DET that makes me smile every time I see it, there is a beautiful pheasant that wanders around by the cemetery and runway on the SE side of 15/33. In the middle of all the industry and bad neighborhoods is one of the most beautiful birds you can find. I think it does need a nice park to live in.

Detroit is not as bad as most people say it is. Downtown Detroit is kinda nice. The area by Comerica Park, Ford Field, and Cheli's Chili Bar is really nice. Besides that the surrounding area of the city limits is garbage. I have a friend that lives there and refuses to go out at night in certain areas. I've driven through a lot of area's similar to that and let me tell you it's not something you want to see or visit.

Quoting KROC (Reply 34): seeing as that kiosk he works at in the mall

Grand Forks, ND has a mall? Wow.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 28): Boston with a similar population compared to the whole state of Maine and their murder rates are in the triple digits, so it's not all about population densities

Boston had 66 murders in 2006 (roughly 11 murders per 100,000 residents), making it one of the safest large cities in the US. That said, I agree with you. US cities, compared to most of their counterparts in Europe, Canada and Australia, are more dangerous.

As for why Detroit is probably the most dumped on city in the US. Hard to say, as I haven't been there. However, reputations can be a hard thing to shake. But, from what I've heard, it doesn't sound promising either. I mean, most people have said that the area around the sports facilities is nice along with the suburbs. That to me, doesn't speak of a vibrant city. Unfortunately, when a city is as far gone as Detroit appears to be it's hard to stop the exodus. I mean, most successful urban revitalization plans start with getting people BACK to the downtown. However, in order to entice people to live in the city, they have to feel safe. But, empty streets at night are dangerous. So, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? The chicken being getting rid of crime so people feel good about living downtown, starting business that make living downtown, like restaurants and bars and things that neighbourhoods need in order to be attractive (I mean, what's the point of living in a place if you can't leave your house past 9p?). Or the egg being all of that happening despite the high crime. Somehow, I think it may need to be a bit of both. Some modest, mid-level revitalization projects like some new high rise condos along with maybe a pedestrian mall with shopping and restaurants.

For me, it's sad that an urban centre in the US sounds more like Johannesburg than it does New York and that the residents of the area don't seem to care. They see the city as a lost cause but it's not that bad as long as the suburbs are ok. To me, that seems completely the opposite. Cities are supposed to be the attraction and the suburbs are where life and fun go to die. OK, that last bit is an exaggeration, but everywhere I've ever lived the suburbs where your detached houses, your strip malls, your very rare cultural house (local arts centre or theatre. Usually outnumbered by cineplexes), your two car garages, front lawns, etc. I'm not passing judgement. Maybe Detroit has managed out of necessity to create all the things that make cities great in an urban environment. If that's the case, kudos to them. To me, that still seems backwards.

LH423

So one tiny area in the down town section is ok and this makes it fine.. This is what I'm hearing from advocates of it being a safe city. If that's the case... doesn't sound like too safe a city to me then

Here are some great videos of driving around in Detroit. It's just like a remembered it!

In the second video, I even counted two burnt cars and a few houses thrown into the mix! (actually I lost count)










[Edited 2008-02-26 11:49:38]

What about Northville (did I spell that right?) My brother-in-law is from there. Looking at maps, it seems far enough 'out' to be safe, anyone been there?

Quoting Mason (Reply 42): What about Northville (did I spell that right?) My brother-in-law is from there. Looking at maps, it seems far enough 'out' to be safe, anyone been there?

Yep, Northville is pretty nice actually. It's in Wayne County which is what Detroit is in, but probably 25-30 minutes from downtown. It's right on the edge of the country to the West which is nice, not too far of a drive and you are in some really nice lakes and parks areas. The roads are terrible but it is close to the 12 Oaks Mall which nice and Plymouth, all pretty nice places.

This brings something else up, now I have lived in Michigan for a dozen years now since I was 15. I have heard people say that the worst counties in Michigan are the "W" ones, Wayne, Wexford and Washtenaw. Has anyone else heard that? I live in Washtenaw county and I don't see what the big deal is except for parts of Ypsilanti, I blame that on Wayne county!

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 43): I live in Washtenaw county and I don't see what the big deal is except for parts of Ypsilanti, I blame that on Wayne county!

I think you're 100% right. With the exception of those parts of Ypsi, the worst part of Washtenaw county is the occasional ratty trailer park south and southwest of Ypsi. The rest is really nice.

2H4

[Edited 2008-02-27 19:53:03]

I have never been to Detroit, so all I have to go by is what is written, spoken, or viewed on media stations. Heck, they give a similar rap on Pittsburgh as being one of the most miserable cities as well. It's not on the top 10 list, but it's bad enough to rank 12th!? The only thing really pulling that city down is the fact that it's one of the dreariest cities in the country, but so is Seattle! Oh yeah, and the fact that it's also bad for respiratory problems. I wonder if that's linked with the absurdly large number of elderly people in the Pittsburgh metro area! The economy is making a somewhat noticeable turn-around and the average income per capita has almost doubled since 1990, and that is according to local media.

I do not intend to hijack this thread, but all I have heard is how rough Detroit, and how it's economy isn't doing anything at all, urban population is dropping like a brick. Are there any F500 companies hqed in the central business district, or are they all in the suburbs?

[quote=Mason,reply=42Northville. Anyone been there?[/quote]

yes, my relatives are living there. It is nowhere near being considered trashy. It's more like

Ypsilanti oh yes that is pretty trashy. My friends and I claim to think the water tower looks disturbingly similar to a dildo. I like to consider it the ghetto version of Ann Arbor.

Though I hear St. Louis has an even higher crime rate than Detroit. Hell, according to some statistic I saw even Cleveland is more dangerous than Gary, IN. Obviously that is hard to believe but rest assured I looked at two different surveys.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 19): that's the case everywhere

Do you really believe that?

Quoting Mir (Reply 26): Not everywhere. There are cities that actually manage to retain people other than from 8-6pm

yup. I work 15 miles from Seattle and we often head into the city at night.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 47): Do you really believe that?

It's common sense. Putting aside everyone's stereotypical views of my hometown, it's safe to assume that most people want to get away from their usual Monday through Friday 9 to 5 jobs.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 48): It's common sense. Putting aside everyone's stereotypical views of my hometown, it's safe to assume that most people want to get away from their usual Monday through Friday 9 to 5 jobs.

More like people want to get away from the pimps, and the hustlers, the bitches and prostitutes they meet....The piles of Pit Bull crap on the street. The banga's, the riots, that sewer smell that hangs in the air.... The flying bullets and the bombs bursting in air. Oh God please Northwest, won't you start service to sunny Baghdad because it's almost safer there than when I'm home here in Detroit sitting on my front porch drinking a 40 in my lawn chair! (It's safer there than Detroit anyway)