"He has now become Bush's third term,"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/05/mccain.bush/index.html

This is enough to scare me. We don't need another George W. Bush in the white house. While McCain has more experience than Bush, I doubt that he can do anything differently. He is a republican after all.

Your thoughts?

Err. That's according to the Democrats who, if you haven't heard, are running against him. It is just an endorsement. Both sides wait until it is clear who will win and then make the endorsement. If Huck had done better they would be endorsing him.

If you have been following the news you would know that many Republicans have been forced to go for McCain. McCain has a history of voting for and against the republicans. He has toed the line over the last two years to acquire the Republican nomination, but he is far from a Medvedev. If he is elected he will not be a Bush puppet.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): Your thoughts?

DId you really expect a sitting Republican President to say of the nominee in his party for the next election "don't Vote For Him, He Sucks" . . . .

C'Mon . . . completely expected and normal.

Something tells me that someone will post a statement that includes the words "clinton" and "three" as well.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): This is enough to scare me. We don't need another George W. Bush in the white house.

When was the last time an outgoing second-term president not endorse one of the candidates. You don't expect Bush to endorse Hillary or Obama, do you?

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): While McCain has more experience than Bush, I doubt that he can do anything differently. He is a republican after all.

And you guys are all tree-hugging, kumbayah-singing communists. See what happens when you generalize?

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3): Something tells me that someone will post a statement that includes the words "clinton" and "three" as well.

I think you pretty much said it yourself    .....saving any of the rest of us the trouble...

Tom at MSY

I've been calling McCain out for being the RINO liberal he really is for years now...nothing would surprise me if he remains the big government heir to Jorge Bush, especially since they are both for open borders too.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): We don't need another George W. Bush in the white house

No, better we had a democrat who will tax us to death so the lower class can get free everything and will let the middle east walk all over us.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7): No, better we had a democrat who will tax us to death so the lower class can get free everything and will let the middle east walk all over us.

I seem to remember when Clinton was president, we had a bustling economy, unemployment was low, and the dollar was worth... *GASP* more than a dollar.

Compare these 2 videos...




I don't think Clinton needed to tell us to Show each other some love. And I don't think I had a very hard time finding Clinton's real speech.. All I could find were doctored speeches by Bush..

Quoting Slider (Reply 6): I've been calling McCain out for being the RINO liberal he really is for years now...nothing would surprise me if he remains the big government heir to Jorge Bush, especially since they are both for open borders too.

Say what you want about McCain, but he's not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. Not voting the goose-stepping party line every time does not make him a liberal.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4): And you guys are all tree-hugging, kumbayah-singing communists.

Ouch, that was mean! Im suggesting your post for deletion!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4): See what happens when you generalize?

OOOH  

But as others have said. It all boils down to supporting the party.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): I seem to remember when Clinton was president

Humm...

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): we had a bustling economy

And he left it in a recession...

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): unemployment was low

Really? Maybe, but was never lower than what it has been under Bush, and to this day, it's lower still than the Clinton years.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): and the dollar was worth... *GASP* more than a dollar

Can't argue with you there... Republicans spent the bank...

This one's even better... Hopefully, it will put some perspective on things

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): "He has now become Bush's third term," This is enough to scare me. We don't need another George W. Bush in the white house. While McCain has more experience than Bush, I doubt that he can do anything differently. He is a republican after all.

Let's take a trip back to 2000, and imagine the quote read:

Quote: "Gore has now become Clinton's third term," This is enough to scare me. We don't need another Bill Clinton in the white house. While Gore has more experience than Clinton, I doubt that he can do anything differently. He is a democrat after all.

Would you call that a fair assessment BR715, or a cheap shot that makes no consideration of the character, ambitions, and integrity of the people actually running for office? Gore obviously would have led with a different style and pursued different goals than Clinton. The exact same can be said for McCain.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 12): Hopefully, it will put some perspective on things

Yes it does. It shows how biased you are.

Thanks for clearing that up. As if it needed to be..

I mean, by bringing a fictional you tube video made by hacks like you into the discussion about McCain really adds to the point you're trying to make.

But...it's not like I expected anything less, since you are flying the Canadian Flag and are from Illinois.

I guess you hate this country as much as Michelle Obama does, huh?

Or is it you are finally proud of the USA since Hillary is going to try to steal the Democratic Nomination by rewriting the rules already set forth?

Either way, yep, that video really puts perspectives on things. Thanks.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 11): Really? Maybe, but was never lower than what it has been under Bush, and to this day, it's lower still than the Clinton years.

I'll bite:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200603240004

Shows the official chart from the US Bureau of Labor..

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): I seem to remember when Clinton was president, we had a bustling economy, unemployment was low, and the dollar was worth... *GASP* more than a dollar.

OMG and what happened in late 99 and 00' when the stock market fell apart because that money didn't really exist and the yahoos and qualcoms collapsed? It's a cycle dude and it's not our presidents fault one way or the other. Stop with the talking points already.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 11): And he left it in a recession...

  

He's too old!
He needs to be in a retirement community in Florida, not the White House.  


Adam

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4): When was the last time an outgoing second-term president not endorse one of the candidates. You don't expect Bush to endorse Hillary or Obama, do you?

Well, Eisenhower didn't endorse Nixon with much of a hoo ha, and neither did President Reagan for Bush 41. Nor did Clinton rally round Gore although given the embarrassment he was suffering at the time it's kind of understandable.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14): I guess you hate this country as much as Michelle Obama does, huh?

Get real, she never hated America. Let's not blow things out of the water.

Quoting Continental (Reply 19): Get real, she never hated America. Let's not blow things out of the water.

Michelle Obama alone will wreck his chance at being president. Sorry if you don't believe it, but he was winning everything in sight until she started running her mouth just a week or two ago.

I'm not going to get in an argument over what she really said/meant/implied. And I'm not just taking about the being "proud of the country statement." I'm talking about the statements where she is complaining about, at 40, just paying off their Harvard and Princeton loans, and the fact that they are close to the White house and telling everyone else they have no chance at being successful in the USA. You can take whatever meaning you think she meant. Fine by me.

I will, however, point out last nights "surprising" wins by Hillary Clinton as a good indicator that Michelle will be the downfall of her husband.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): I seem to remember when Clinton was president, we had a bustling economy, unemployment was low, and the dollar was worth... *GASP* more than a dollar.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Clinton President when Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, Adelphia were reporting all those fictitious profits. Didn't Time Warner pay something like $100B for AOL only to write it all off years later. Weren't dot.coms going public in multibillion dollar IPO's that ended up being worthless just a couple of years later? How many people who were "employed" by these companies were employed because of these frauds? Has anyone gone back and recalculated what the economic landscape actually looked like when you take away the hundreds of billions of fraudulent profits that were reported during that time? Does BR715-A1-30 have selective memory?

Nobody can deny the facts that the economy looked better during Clinton's presidency, but much of the economic "growth" of the late 90's and early 2000's was just a facade. It was nothing more than accounting window dressing to make the crumbling economic landscape look like a boom time.

Now to be fair, the same argument can be levied against W with respect to the post 2003 boom in the financial sector. I recently read a piece in Business Week that reported that the write downs at many firms exceed 90% of the cumulative profitability for these firms since 1998.

Quoting Pope (Reply 21): Does BR715-A1-30 have selective memory?

Actually, I do have a selective memory.. But I know a president when I see one. Granted, the last president to make something of himself, IMO, is Ronald Reagan. But I'm comparing Clinton to Bush, and one must agree that Clinton did a hell of a job compared to Mr. Lame Duck. Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did. Clinton was elected honestly while Daddy and his cohorts got Junior elected.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 20): I will, however, point out last nights "surprising" wins by Hillary Clinton as a good indicator that Michelle will be the downfall of her husband.

None of her wins were surprising. Just a few weeks ago, she was leading by double digits in both Texas and Ohio. She won by single digits.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did.

How did Bush rig the election?????

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): compared to Mr. Lame Duck

At this time in his Presidency wasn't President Clinton also Mr. Lame Duck?

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did.

You're right, he should still be going to H. Ross Perots home every year at election time with a gift basket.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Clinton was elected honestly while Daddy and his cohorts got Junior elected.

Does that mean if Hillary gets the nomimation and is elected we can say that hubby and friends rigged it for her?

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Actually, I do have a selective memory.. But I know a president when I see one. Granted, the last president to make something of himself, IMO, is Ronald Reagan. But I'm comparing Clinton to Bush, and one must agree that Clinton did a hell of a job compared to Mr. Lame Duck. Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did. Clinton was elected honestly while Daddy and his cohorts got Junior elected.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24): How did Bush rig the election?????

Obviously, Bush family operatives got the Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections (who was a Democrat) to secretly create a butterfly ballot in a configuration that led to voter confusion. Ignore the fact that the ballot was released for review by officials of both parties before the election (and nobody objected) and published in the newspaper for voters to see.

Also ignore the fact that the genius citizens of Palm Beach re-elected this Supervisor of Elections again.

Yeah, the blame can never be on the incompetence of a democrat or their supporters, it has to be levied on the back of the "vast right wing conspiracy." Oh yeah - didn't someone running for the presidency this year coin that phrase right before she found out that her husband was in fact lying to her and the special prosecutor about his "relationship" with another woman. Has HRC ever apologized for that statement now that it was proven to be wrong? What does it say about her judgment when she can't even tell if the man she's lived with for 20+ years was lying to her face . . . but I digress.

But even clearing up this issue - how about you address the substance of my post regarding the economic sham during the later half of Clinton's presidency? You held it out as a great economy, but the facts have shown that the economy during that time was just smoke and mirrors.

Quoting Pope (Reply 26): but the facts have shown that the economy during that time was just smoke and mirrors.

Yeah, and it didn't cost near as much for my family to go on a road trip.  

If one reads the facts that are out there, and actually does some research, the facts will show that Bush is THE WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY!!! I wish all of you bush supporters would realize that your man is a joke. I know people hate to admit when they're wrong, but c'mon now. Sure, Clinton did some pretty fludged up things, but I don't seem to remember him sending 30,000 troops somewhere just to get revenge on account of daddy (who did not win a second term). Hell, I'd rather Bush Sr. had taken office in 2004 instead of his incompetent son. He had one more term left

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): "He has now become Bush's third term," http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/05/mccain.bush/index.html

How can you be so ignorant? What should scare you first and foremost is that you have hardcore left wing socialists running for the office of the united states. Not only are they going to tax the living lights out of you but they will control your life to the point where they will tell you when to eat and sleep. They will expand government and socialize every aspect of the economy. Wont happen right away, but it will lay the seeds. You'll be left with a bunch of dependents on a failed lib system in a constant downward spiral. They will simply ruin and isolate this country. Not to mention what kind of a message it will send to the rest of the world.

Been there done that , no thanks. God bless GWB.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 9): Say what you want about McCain, but he's not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination.

Thank God for that. Although I'd say that the Democrats have become ultra-liberal and the Republicans have simply become liberal.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18): Well, Eisenhower didn't endorse Nixon with much of a hoo ha, and neither did President Reagan for Bush 41. Nor did Clinton rally round Gore although given the embarrassment he was suffering at the time it's kind of understandable.

But they did in fact endorse their VPs. I don't care how actively they campaigned for them, they endorsed them, and that's the point.

Quoting Continental (Reply 19): Get real, she never hated America. Let's not blow things out of the water.

Oh crap.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...80310fa_fact_collins?currentPage=1

Quote: Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. “We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,” she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. “Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!” From these bleak generalities, Obama moves into specific complaints. Used to be, she will say, that you could count on a decent education in the neighborhood. But now there are all these charter schools and magnet schools that you have to “finagle” to get into. Health care is out of reach, pensions are disappearing, college is too expensive, and even if you can figure out a way to go to college you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree in many of the professions for which you needed it in the first place. “The life that I’m talking about that most people are living has gotten progressively worse since I was a little girl. . . . So if you want to pretend like there was some point over the last couple of decades when your lives were easy, I want to meet you!”

This kind of crap coming from a lady who DID go to a magnet school, is making over 300 grand at her job (not even counting her husband making a couple million), and proved to herself and the country that being black doesn’t bring you down anymore in this country.

But still the downcast attitude of our country. We’re a bunch of sloths which will get better when the government takes care of you from cradle to grave you see…..

And here's a good quote:

Quote: “You’re looking at a young couple that’s just a few years out of debt,” Obama said. “See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn’t have trust funds. I’m still waiting for Barack’s trust fund. Especially after I heard that Dick Cheney was s’posed to be a relative or something. Give us something here!”

What a vile woman. Now she is supposedly OWED more?

This is the difference between conservatives and liberals. Reagan ran on talking up this country, telling us all it was a great country with too much government. Obama and his wife talk about how bad this country is, how we’re a bunch of sloths and going downhill quickly unless government comes to our rescue.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did. Clinton was elected honestly while Daddy and his cohorts got Junior elected.

 

Quoting Flanker (Reply 28): They will simply ruin and isolate this country. Not to mention what kind of a message it will send to the rest of the world.

And the majority of Americans feel this way with the current administration.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 28): they will control your life to the point where they will tell you when to eat and sleep

Hmmm, sounds more like the current right wing nut jobs if you ask me.

And so you're saying, rather than help people, the government should give them the bird, and say bug off? Seems like they would then be more of a strain on the economy/government to me. You've got to remember, when people are poor and live in poverty, and have no way of getting out, things do not bode well for local governments (look at any inner city).

Wait, Isn't Local government what the republicans care about?   

Quoting KhelmDTW (Reply 31): Hmmm, sounds more like the current right wing nut jobs if you ask me. And so you're saying, rather than help people, the government should give them the bird, and say bug off? Seems like they would then be more of a strain on the economy/government to me. You've got to remember, when people are poor and live in poverty, and have no way of getting out, things do not bode well for local governments (look at any inner city). Wait, Isn't Local government what the republicans care about? duck

The only responsibility of the government is to protect you from harm, and protect your liberties. It is not the governments job to bail people out, to socialize/control markets, to tell people what they can and can do on their private property and so on..

What the damn libs want is exactly the opposite, to create dependents based on the idea that people cant make decisions and cannot take care of their own lives. So lets have big government come and solve all of your problems. Making dependents is the only way these idiots can ever stay in power. That ideology has failed every time it has been tried.

Quoting Klima (Reply 30): And the majority of Americans feel this way with the current administration.

Yea that would be the reaction when all they do is watch PMSNBC and CNN. I'm not surprised.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3): Something tells me that someone will post a statement that includes the words "clinton" and "three" as well.

I pass but I will raise you "CARTER" and "Two"

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 11): Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): we had a bustling economy And he left it in a recession

Check your calender, the economy was tanking prior to the election, nobody noticed because their was an election. And the Enron, and Tyco scandals where for tax years prior to 2000.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 11): Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8): unemployment was low.

And it is still low, running at the statistical minimum.

Quoting Pope (Reply 21): Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Clinton President when Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, Adelphia were reporting all those fictitious profits. Didn't Time Warner pay something like $100B for AOL only to write it all off years later. Weren't dot.coms going public in multibillion dollar IPO's that ended up being worthless just a couple of years later? How many people who were "employed" by these companies were employed because of these frauds? Has anyone gone back and recalculated what the economic landscape actually looked like when you take away the hundreds of billions of fraudulent profits that were reported during that time? Does BR715-A1-30 have selective memory?

Nope you are exactly right, people just tend for forget that because the convictions came about during GW's term.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 27): the facts will show that Bush is THE WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY!!!

Hardly, Carter clear was and I am afraid that we will see a return to his "malaze" if we get a democrat in the White House.

Quoting Continental (Reply 19): Get real, she never hated America. Let's not blow things out of the water.

That remark she made was pretty telling, she may not hate America but she sure wasn't proud of it until her snake oil salesman husband got in the running for Dem nominee.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 20): Michelle Obama alone will wreck his chance at being president. Sorry if you don't believe it, but he was winning everything in sight until she started running her mouth just a week or two ago.

I don't think so, Obama will do it to himself, you can obviously see how much he was reeling from getting his ass kicked last night and if he loses PA he is in trouble. Florida and Michigan are beginning to yell very loudly and Dean better do something because this convention will be one to remember. At the end of the day Obama is green, very green and his preacher like speeches just go so far. He better put Hillary away or he will be toast and hopefully we won't have to hear his rhetoric anymore.

Quoting Pope (Reply 21): Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Clinton President when Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, Adelphia were reporting all those fictitious profits

Yep, his so called great economy was all inflated money that didn't exist and boy did all those day traders die a horrible death.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did. Clinton was elected honestly while Daddy and his cohorts got Junior elected.

This just shows you how dilusional the left is. Can you imagine the crap we are going to hear when McCain wins? I can hear it now. People elect presidents. I wish the left can accept that.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn;t Truman have a worse approval rating.

McCain will not be another Bush. He needs to be seen with Bush in order to get the GOP base in line, but he's been a maverick for a long time, and I have no reason to believe he'll follow exactly in Bush's footsteps, which is a good thing.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 32): The only responsibility of the government is to protect you from harm, and protect your liberties.

You might want to remind Bush and his out-of-control spending about that.

-Mir

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29): and proved to herself and the country that being black doesn’t bring you down anymore in this country.

Do you really believe that? Do you?

I'm not saying that Michelle Obama isn't saying a few things she shouldn't. But I fail to believe that she hates America.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29): Oh crap.

Yes, oh crap. Your post showed nothing to show where Mrs. Obama hates her country. Should she be more careful with her words? Sure, I'll give you that, but to say she hates America is nothing but a fabrication and facade put up so the patriot police can run around and say how much she and her husband hate America.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29): Obama and his wife talk about how bad this country is, how we're a bunch of sloths and going downhill quickly unless government comes to our rescue.

Am I confused, or did your post quote nothing that Sen. Obama said? In the real world, Sen. Obama gives hope for our country, not hate like you would portray.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35): That remark she made was pretty telling, she may not hate America but she sure wasn't proud of it until her snake oil salesman husband got in the running for Dem nominee.

Snake oil salesman, huh Nicholas?    I don't know what to do with that rubbish other than highlight it and expose it's ridiculous nature.

As for McCain being another Bush, I just don't see it happening. I see Sen. McCain as someone who is a very respectable man who would work with both sides to get things done.

Dave

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39): Obama gives hope for our country, not hate like you would portray.

Hope is an excuse for not trying. Hope is sitting around waiting for something to happen. Hope doesn't solve things.

He does not believe in YOU.

[Edited 2008-03-05 22:53:06]

Quoting Flanker (Reply 40): Hope is an excuse for not trying. Hope is sitting around waiting for something to happen. Hope doesn't solve things.

Disagree. Hope can be classified in many ways, not just one generalized definition. Hope can inspire one to change things. Hope isn't limited to wishing, nor is it limited to simply waiting around for something to happen. Sure, that's one aspect of hope, but it wasn't what I was referring to. I was responding to another poster's allegations that Sen. Obama sees our country in a negative light. Hope and inspiration can be used synonymously.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 40): He does not believe in YOU.

You can't say that for sure. You base this on....?

Dave

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 41): You can't say that for sure. You base this on....? Dave

He would not want to socialize,control your life and tax you out of existence if he actually believed in you.

Believing in us is getting the government out of the way, reducing taxes and letting the market and private businesses continue to build this great nation.

Like i said before, creating dependents on government is not what i call "belief in the individual".

Gnight.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 27): I wish all of you bush supporters

I am not a Bush supporter. I would like to examine the events in 15 years to see what the results have been.

But you still haven't responded to.....

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24): Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22): Hell, Clinton didn't have to rig the elections to get elected like dubya did. How did Bush rig the election?????

You make accusations with no evidence or support. In my mind you are a pathetic piece of #$#@ who makes accusations with no evidence. Care to change that?

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): "He has now become Bush's third term," http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/05/mccain.bush/index.html This is enough to scare me. We don't need another George W. Bush in the white house.

Isn't it amazing how everyone (liberals or Democrats) is still running against President Bush?

Quoting Flanker (Reply 42): He would not want to socialize,control your life and tax you out of existence if he actually believed in you.

He doesn't want to control our lives, he wants to implement programs that he feel will better our lives. If he didn't believe in us, he wouldn't be running for President.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 42): Believing in us is getting the government out of the way, reducing taxes and letting the market and private businesses continue to build this great nation.

That's one way of thinking about it, sure. But that's not the only way of showing you believe in the people.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 42): Gnight.

Have a good one, G'night  .

Dave

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39): Yes, oh crap. Your post showed nothing to show where Mrs. Obama hates her country.

Hate may be a strong word. She's not about to strap on a DuPont jacket and walk into a mall anyway. But she revels in all of the country's faults and exaggerates them, IMHO.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39): Am I confused, or did your post quote nothing that Sen. Obama said?

Why should it? We were talking about his wife.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39): In the real world, Sen. Obama gives hope for our country, not hate like you would portray.

It's a false hope. Telling people how bad things are, get them all depressed about how they have no hope - unless he's in charge and government comes in to help them. Obama has proposed HUGE increases in public spending, and I cannot support that.

Look, I am not entirely against some of his programs. The problem is that taxation in this country is already too high across the board. The government is involved in thousands of programs it doesn't need, and the people don't really need. I am currently dealing with several government agencies on grant money. There are billions and billions in funds allocated to "help" various industries and people, but the bureaucrats in charge have made the process so cumbersome that people just won't do it. The bureaucrats have their cushy job twiddling their thumbs, and the money just piles up to the point where they have to try to give it away.

And don't compare them with the Iraq War - that's a temporary expenditure compared to a permanent one. An analogy would be spending more than your income for college or a medical treatment, compared to buying a 30-room mansion while working at McDonalds.

True story - happened just last week: There is a grant fund piled high with cash that was intended to promote new business opportunities. In principle, if you fill in some forms and submit a brief business plan, they will immediately give you $25,000, and probably give you up to $400,000 in equity investment within a year.

I talked with the fund director. He told me that they have only denied funding ONE time - to a guy who proposed a business to make self-sealing envelopes. Apparently someone in the government realized that those already exist, and there is no shortage. They are so desperate to give away the funds that they are even sending money to well-established businesses. General Motors could get some. So can you and your business plan to prostitute your female relatives out of your home. (almost) anything goes!

The bureaucrats who run these operations number in the hundreds of thousands. Drones, all of them. Strip the government of such stupid, inefficient, useless programs, and you will be able to lower taxes AND pay for national health care and other programs at the same time.

So this is free money. $25K anyway. And for the $400,000, WTF is the government doing getting involved as shareholders in businesses? The director told me that the intention is to eventually give the shares back, because they have no mechanism to police them.

But until we can lower government expenditures to a reasonable level, I will oppose any and all new government programs. US taxation is far too high as it is. Get it down, and then we can talk.

[Edited 2008-03-06 05:16:30]

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 27): Yeah, and it didn't cost near as much for my family to go on a road trip.

So now you've changed your argument. First it was that the economy under Clinton was great, now it's that the economy is horrible solely because it costs you so much to go on a road trip?

Well how about we adopt the strategy that our socialist European brethern favor and raise taxes on gasoline so a gallon costs $7+/gallon. Would that solve the problem? Yet though gas has gone up dramatically, there are more people on the roads every year. More people fly on vacation every year. More people own boats, personal watercrafts and ATV's than ever before. If consumption keeps going up then yes, prices are going to continue to rise. But you see nobody want's to be part of the solution. All you want to do is complain.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 44): Isn't it amazing how everyone (liberals or Democrats) is still running against President Bush?

Right up to the last mid-terms election the Republicans were still running against President Clinton.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 11): Really? Maybe, but was never lower than what it has been under Bush, and to this day, it's lower still than the Clinton years.

I provided proof from the US Bureau of Labor that this isn't so, but again you just ignore the facts.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 47): And don't compare them with the Iraq War - that's a temporary expenditure compared to a permanent one

First of all, I guessing that you're not in the 76-85 age group as on your profile; if some people have their way Iraq will become a permanent expenditure like Korea has become. (edit for grammer)

[Edited 2008-03-06 08:45:56]