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Cadet57
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Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:53 pm

So this summer I bought an '03 Jetta, it is a GLS 1.8T, I was told I have to keep 93 in it or I can seize the turbo and it will not be covered under my warrenty. On the other hand I was told I can put 87 in it and it will be fine. When I took delivery, the salesman put in a full tank of 87 and I did afterwards, I then changed to 93 after being told of the turbo seize but I also noticed a drop in MPG's. So if there are any VW people here who could give me the right info, Id appreciate it.
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ZBBYLW
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:07 pm

I have a 1.8T and I use strictly 91 from Shell (In Canada it asks for 91). I have pushed it hard for 4 solid years. Though I have been pretty good about letting the turbo cool down. Want my advice? Let the turbo cool down and you should be good. I do not want to tell you to use 87 but if it doesn't knock, you MIGHT be good. Hopefully someone with a better understanding of the engine can help you out.
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 1):

Hmm, Well, minus destroying rice wagons :P I rarely drive it hard, I diddnt even want the turbo lol I wanted a standard 2.0 but this is what they got at the auction, not that I mind. God I love that whistle  Big grin.
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jcs17
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:16 pm

Your car is a Volkswagen, not a Porsche. Only high-performance, highly tuned automobiles (about 10% of the cars out there) truly require gasoline with a rating over 91/92. It will run fine on 87.
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aerobalance
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:39 pm

Turbochargers usually seize due to lack of oil in the bearings, not because of the type of fuel used.
Preignition due to using lower octane than recommended is rare nowadays due to engine management systems that will sense knock and adjust allowable turbocharger boost levels and timing curves for the given RPM and load. I do not know if your car has this system - but I'm sure it does. The only downfall you'll have is reduced torque and horsepower available at any RPM due to reduced boost and timing if you use less than 91 octane fuel. Cheers.
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mNeo
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:11 pm

I dont know how it is on the 1.8T but on the new 2.0T I have read numerous times that people have broken their turbos by being cheap and using the 87. Also when taking into account the added performance and slight MPG increase by using a higher octane it only costs a bit more per gallon for my A3, and thats a price im willing to pay for a piece of mind.

Oh and i live for the turbo whistle. it is probably the best part of my drive when i have to over take someone or merge into traffic just to hear that sound
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting MNeo (Reply 5):
Also when taking into account the added performance and slight MPG increase by using a higher octane it only costs a bit more per gallon for my A3, and thats a price im willing to pay for a piece of mind.

Likewise, its 20 cents more a gallon for me, BUT i expericanced a DECREASE in MPG, I changed over to 93 in the fall so prehaps this is the winter 93 blend? and in the summer it will go back to normal?

Quoting MNeo (Reply 5):
it is probably the best part of my drive when i have to over take someone or merge into traffic just to hear that sound

Indeed. Favorite part of driving. Thou, I decided for my next VW im going to get a TDi wagon. I think i'll miss the whistle
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aerobalance
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:45 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
BUT i expericanced a DECREASE in MPG, I changed over to 93 in the fall so prehaps this is the winter 93 blend? and in the summer it will go back to normal?

Octane, basically, gives gasoline the property of having a slow burning process. Since your vehicle only needs 91 octane, you have an incomplete combustion process and unburned fuel being sent down the exhaust pipe. You may have the same power being developed as with 91 octane, but it's takiing more fuel to do it, thus the increase in MPG.
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:49 pm



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 7):

So in other words. Optimally I should be using 91 and not 93? Thus providing the optimal mpg?
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ACDC8
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:54 pm

What does it say in the owners manual? There should also be a sticker inside the fuel cap door with the octane rating your car requires. I have an 07 Golf with the 2.0 and the manufactures octane rating in the book and fuel cap door is 87.

Using a different grade then recommended by the manufacturer (including using a higher grade) can reduce your mileage, performance and even lead to engine damage. So, if the book says XX octane, I'd only pump XX octane.
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aerobalance
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:55 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
Optimally I should be using 91 and not 93? Thus providing the optimal mpg?

Yes.
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:56 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9):

IDK why but the fuel door is not in english, not german either. But it says octane 88/91/93 so I have no idea. If anyone wants I'll post a picture to see if they know...
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ACDC8
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:04 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
IDK why but the fuel door is not in english, not german either. But it says octane 88/91/93 so I have no idea. If anyone wants I'll post a picture to see if they know...

Where did you buy the car? Was it imported from another country? Also, I'm assuming you're in the US so what are you're stadard octane levels there? BTW, from what my owners manual ways, the 1.8L requires 91 (07 model) which is what most websites say as well.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
Thou, I decided for my next VW im going to get a TDi wagon

2008 will see the new Jetta Wagon (sadly, only with the 2.5L in Canada for now), but hopefully we'll be getting the TDI's imported again very soon....

http://www.vw.ca/vwca/models/coming_jettawagon/0,2645,40,00.html

Another wagon style VW coming to Canada this year is the Tiguan, although more of a crossover/mini SUV than a wagon. I say one in Germany last week and it reminded me of the Subaru Forester....

http://www.vw.ca/vwca/models/coming_tiguan/0,2662,40,00.html

[Edited 2008-03-07 10:11:16]
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:27 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 12):
Where did you buy the car? Was it imported from another country? Also, I'm assuming you're in the US so what are you're stadard octane levels there?

Its a standard us model. The dealership got it from NJ. I have the orig window sticker, and service papers and history. Around here stations sell 87/91/93, theres one in town that sells 87/88/89/91/93. But the station I use is 87/91/93 sometimes 91 is swapped with 89

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 12):
2008 will see the new Jetta Wagon (sadly, only with the 2.5L in Canada for now), but hopefully we'll be getting the TDI's imported again very soon....

Mhm Looks awesome. The US will get the new 2.0 TDi and canada in 2009 iirc.
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Farnborough24
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:18 am

Found this thread really interesting-over here you can't buy less than 95 RON fuel, and many people run 98. I assume this means I'm getting better power and mpg than the equivalent car in the States, and also that this is part of the reason your fuel is so much cheaper. Interesting stuff.

And as for turbos, I live for the lag! I get a bit of old school lag when i dump the throttle at 1500rpm-builds up to 2500 then BANG you go. For those curious, I drive a 2.3 Turbo Saab, with 200bhp and 300nm torque, so when she goes, she goes...
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RayChuang
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:25 am

I myself prefer the newer VW's with the 2.0 TSI engine--they're not only more powerful, but fuel economy is actually better, thanks to the use of direct fuel injection.  Smile
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:50 am



Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 14):
95 RON fuel, and many people run 98.

AFAIK RON and Octain rating differ slighly. I "THINK" 98 is equal to either 89 or 91 someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Also I LOVE the wistle, it adds alot to the car, also for such a nice cheap car it does handle pretty well in the higher speed ranges though above 180 kph it really starts to get loud!
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ACDC8
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:11 am



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 13):
Its a standard us model. The dealership got it from NJ. I have the orig window sticker, and service papers and history. Around here stations sell 87/91/93, theres one in town that sells 87/88/89/91/93. But the station I use is 87/91/93 sometimes 91 is swapped with 89

I'd fuel with 91 then, as far as I know, that's what the manufacturer's recommendation is. My owner's manual for the 07 model year is 87 for the 2.0 and 91 for the 1.8T and I don't think that it's changed since the 03 model year. You can always call a VW dealership to see what they say as well.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 16):
AFAIK RON and Octain rating differ slighly. I "THINK" 98 is equal to either 89 or 91 someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Europe usually uses the RON (Research Octane Measurement) method of octane reading and North America usually uses the (R+M)/2 method of octane reading. IIRC, the (R+M)/2 is about 4-5 units lower then the RON equivalent, so a 91-92 RON is the equivalent to 87 and so forth. I didn't know there was a difference between the two, but we had a thread about this a couple of years back and someone provided some useful links about that, though I haven't the foggiest idea what the thread was about. All I remember was to subtract 4-5 points from the RON to get the (R+M)/2 and vice versa.

My Golf with the 2.0 has both RON and (R+M)/2 recommendations on the tank lid, so it makes it easy to remember as well.

What brand of fuel do you guys use on your VW's? Mine seems to like Chevron the most. I tried Shell and Esso, but I seem to get a bit more punch and a few KM's more out of Chevron. With my Mustang and Accord, it was the opposite, they liked Shell for some reason.
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Farnborough24
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:02 pm

Aha, so basically when North Americans talk about putting 93 in their car for optimum economy/power, that's the same as me putting 98RON in my car over here. That makes sense. Is yours sold as special 'performance fuel'? Over here we've got Shell Optimax, BP Ultimate and so on...
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:18 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):

Ok then, 91 it is. My next question. I have a full tank of 93. Should I drive it empty or when i usually get gas (1/2 tank) put 91 in then.
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2H4
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
So in other words. Optimally I should be using 91 and not 93? Thus providing the optimal mpg?

You should follow the instructions in your owner's manual. Period.  yes 

P.S. - There is no better source of VW information online than at VW Vortex. Their forums are particularly useful.

2H4
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jcs17
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:33 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
IDK why but the fuel door is not in english, not german either. But it says octane 88/91/93 so I have no idea. If anyone wants I'll post a picture to see if they know...

I hope you bought it from a Volkswagen or at least a very reputable dealer because otherwise that car may be gray-market and you might have bought an imported non-US car (at an inflated US price). Do you have any information on where it was originally bought? Did you check CarFax?
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amigocharlie
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:20 pm

I own a 1.8T myself. Lower Gas quality may ruin the engine, but has nothing to do with the turbocharger. To keep your turbo alive never ever turn off the engine before letting it run for a few minutes without any trottle. The turbo runs with about 120000 Revolutions per minute and can't get cooled down enough if turned off too fast.

Cheers
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:53 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Thread starter):
or I can seize the turbo

Fuel has nothing to do with how the turbocharger performs, if anything, oil will.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
You should follow the instructions in your owner's manual. Period.

Something 99% of car owners fail to do, but I'm proudly in the 1% that does.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
P.S. - There is no better source of VW information online than at VW Vortex. Their forums are particularly useful.

True true. There's some really good DIYs in there too.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:52 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 19):
Ok then, 91 it is. My next question. I have a full tank of 93. Should I drive it empty or when i usually get gas (1/2 tank) put 91 in then.

Good question. Personally, I've never thought of that. I'd probably just drive and refuel like I normally do, I wouldn't make a special trip. But that's just me. Maybe you should ask the same question over on the site the 2H4 provided as well.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
You should follow the instructions in your owner's manual. Period.

P.S. - There is no better source of VW information online than at VW Vortex. Their forums are particularly useful.

Agreed with following the owners manual, best thing you can do for your car. And thanks for the link, looks like it has lots of useful info for us VW owners.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 23):
Something 99% of car owners fail to do, but I'm proudly in the 1% that does.

I'm in that 1% as well Big grin

Sine I mentioned I have the 07 Golf with a 2.0L surprised that no one has mentioned that the 07 Golf (Rabbit) doesn't have the 2.0L engine, but the 2.5L (North American models) so my owners manual wouldn't have the same info as the 03 model year. This site is usually full of people who wander through looking for such discrepancies .... Big grin. Anyway, to prevent any possible confusion. The Golf 4 is still available brand new in Canada and is sold under the City Golf and City Jetta badge. Although the 08's just got a face lift, they are still Mk4's and are sold for a few thousand dollars less then a comparable Mk5. However, the only engine option is the 2.0L although, the owners manual still has all the tech info for the TDI and 1.8T models.
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flanker
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:49 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Thread starter):
So this summer I bought an '03 Jetta, it is a GLS 1.8T, I was told I have to keep 93 in it or I can seize the turbo and it will not be covered under my warrenty. On the other hand I was told I can put 87 in it and it will be fine. When I took delivery, the salesman put in a full tank of 87 and I did afterwards, I then changed to 93 after being told of the turbo seize but I also noticed a drop in MPG's. So if there are any VW people here who could give me the right info, Id appreciate it.

Only 91 or higher in that car. Nothing less.

I used to put 91 in my car, but ever since i got new software for the ECU I have been running 93, and only from Shell.

I have an A4 btw, same engine.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:28 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
P.S. - There is no better source of VW information online than at VW Vortex. Their forums are particularly useful.

Im a member and thats where i got the conflicting fuel info.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
You should follow the instructions in your owner's manual. Period.

Mine just says 2.0, 87 and 1.8 "premium"

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 21):

Bought it from a VW certified dealer. The car came new from a dealership, again vw certified from NJ
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stasisLAX
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:58 am

The VW/Audi 1.8T turbocharged engine is very problematic, to say the least. My 2003 VW Jetta GLS 1.8T engine seized at 46K miles and I was told by a service mechanic at a VW speciality independent repair shop that it was due to oil sludge. When I went to the VW delaership in North Scottsdale (AZ) to have the car repaired under warranty, I was told we must showing ALL repair and oil change receipts from "authorized" facilities which would then be reviewed by the VW corporate service office to determine if the VW engine warranty would cover all of the repair costs, some of the costs, or none of the repair costs. After nearly 4 weeks, the corporate service office decided that they would cover all but $500 of the repair costs. They refused to pay for the rental car costs that I incurred while I waited for them to makes this decision, and then an additional 11 days of the rental while the Jetta was actually being repaired at the dealership. Total out of pocket costs to me was almost $1200.

How does one know if the oil change facility used were "VW authorized" or actually used synthetic oil - something I learned is another requirement after the fact!!! The frequency of oil changes where within accordance with the VW "normal use" maintenance schedule, but certainly not all oil changes were performed at a VW dealership. I'm completely frustrated with VW and their "official" position with regard to an engine design that is obviously prone to failure. Most 1.8T owners (including myself) are not auto mechanics, but I don't know of any other automobile where a modern engine will seize under these conditions. This is a clear case in which VW dumped a defective engine design on American consumers and is refusing to stand behind their product! The estimated repair cost was given at $4,000 - $5,000. Fortunately, my Jetta was involved in rear-end accident and totalled a few months after the engine was replaced. Never again will I purchase a VW product.

I thought the thread-starter would appreciate some advice from someone who has experienced servere problems with that damned VW 1.8T motor. Always run that motor on minumum 91 octane unleaded fuel and change the oil every 3-4K miles with synthetic oil, and always change out the oil filter! Keep every single receipts for maintenance in case you experience an engine failure issue in the future. Finally, check out this website for further information on the excessive engine sludge issues with this VW motor at www.petitiononline.com/VWSludge/petition.html or http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/jetta/2003/consumerreview. Good luck to you!

[Edited 2008-03-08 17:07:31]
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Cadet57
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 27):

Well, Thank you for the info. I have to say. I've never had any issues with the engine. except for a misfire on the 2nd cylinder which was caused by heavy rain and moisture. quickly fixed by resetting the computer. Other then that and some work on the right strut when I bought it, it's been a fantastic car. I changed my oil myself, via the manual. 5K, Mobil 1 fully synthetic and a new filter.
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flanker
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:20 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 27):
The VW/Audi 1.8T turbocharged engine is very problematic, to say the least.

Never again will I purchase a VW product.


Thats a load of horse shit. The only way it can ever be problematic is for those people who wait 10k miles or more to do an oil change, in which case yes your engine will sludge up. And yes you have to use synthetic.

This engine is one of the toughest out there and can handle a shit storm. As long as you change the oil with synthetic and keep up on all maintenance. Its just like anything else in life. If you take care of it, it will take care of you.

My brother's 1.8T seized at 100K miles, and it was because he didn't change his oil at times up to 15k miles. Thankfully for him, I work at Audi and he got a new engine.

My 01 A4 is at 115K with no problems, chipped for the last 15k miles. Oil changed with synthetic castrol every 4k miles. These 1.8's have come in for service with 300k miles.

Keep up with your maintenance and even if your engine does seize, vw/audi will replace it, provided you can show proper documentation.

And if you don't want to own a vw anymore, than thats your loss.
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:45 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 23):
Fuel has nothing to do with how the turbocharger performs, if anything, oil will.

I'm not a mechanic, but I can see how fuel can affect a turbocharger, if you think about it....

A turbocharger actually compresses air going into the cylinders by using the exhaust gas coming out of the cylinders to turn the turbine compressor... from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm :

"In order to achieve this boost, the turbocharger uses the exhaust flow from the engine to spin a turbine, which in turn spins an air pump. The turbine in the turbocharger spins at speeds of up to 150,000 rotations per minute (rpm) -- that's about 30 times faster than most car engines can go. And since it is hooked up to the exhaust, the temperatures in the turbine are also very high."

So, since a turbochargers turbine is in the exhaust system right after the valves but before the catalytic converter where the final burn of any extra fuel happens, if you burn to low or to high octane, temperatures changes from different octane levels and mix of unburnt fuel can affect temperatures of the turbocharger, and thus, burning or seizing it can happen, especially if you don't cool it down properly.
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flanker
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:43 am



Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 30):
I'm not a mechanic, but I can see how fuel can affect a turbocharger, if you think about it....

The turbo is cooled by oil as well. If you don't let turbo cool before you shut it down, the oil will cook in there. Anyway thats what Turbo timers are for. And if you don't want to spend money on one, just relax your driving style about 2 min before you arrive at your destination. Itl give enough time for the turbo to cool down.
 
Molykote
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:28 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 27):
How does one know if the oil change facility used were "VW authorized" or actually used synthetic oil - something I learned is another requirement after the fact!!! The

I am assuming that any required oil specifications and change intervals were published in your owner's manual (or a similar manual such as a service guide)?
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stasisLAX
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:23 am



Quoting Molykote (Reply 32):
I am assuming that any required oil specifications and change intervals were published in your owner's manual (or a similar manual such as a service guide)?

Yes, I went by the normal maintenance schedule for oil changes. This all-alloy 1.8T engine suffers from "hot spots" that causes oil to sludge up - this sludge then makes it way through the engine to the oil pump, causes the pump to foul up and decrease the oil flow through the engine. This increases the engine temp, breaking down the lubricating properties of the oil, and then leading ultimately to complete failure of the alloy turbocharged motor.

Please note that VW/Audi engineers KNOW about this design flaw - if you happen to live in a harsh/hot environment like I used to in Phoenix, it makes the problem even worse. The bottom line is that this engine should absolutely require synthetic oil and lube/filter changes every 5K miles. Fuel used MUST be at least 91 octane at all times to prevent engine pinging. The required VW maintenance does state that oil should be changed every 5K miles - but does not state that synthetic oil should be used or that special maintenance precautions should be taken if you live in a very hot area. Finally, since VW knows about this flaw and has been repeatedly sued for this problem (run a google search and there are numerous complaints regarding this engine) and should have recalled the vehicle, rather than give its customer such horrible treatment and poor service.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
flanker
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:53 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 33):
Please note that VW/Audi engineers KNOW about this design flaw - if you happen to live in a harsh/hot environment like I used to in Phoenix, it makes the problem even worse. The bottom line is that this engine should absolutely require synthetic oil and lube/filter changes every 5K miles. Fuel used MUST be at least 91 octane at all times to prevent engine pinging. The required VW maintenance does state that oil should be changed every 5K miles - but does not state that synthetic oil should be used or that special maintenance precautions should be taken if you live in a very hot area. Finally, since VW knows about this flaw and has been repeatedly sued for this problem (run a google search and there are numerous complaints regarding this engine) and should have recalled the vehicle, rather than give its customer such horrible treatment and poor service.

Change your oil every 10k by the book. Hell, even do it every 5k. When it blows, theyll swap it out up to 120k miles.

And its really the oil return line that clogs up.

And now a fun fact, i have never herd of a TT 1.8T engine ever seizing due to sludge.
 
Molykote
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RE: Volkswagen 1.8T Question

Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:56 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 33):

Perhaps my tone came across in a manner other than that which I intended. I asked about the service requirements for your vehicle because I couldn't tell if you were aware of the requirements before or after you had a problem with the engine. I wasn't trying to suggest that "you're some idiot who didn't read your manual". My interest was sparked due to a number of other people I know who had this problem with the engine.
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