baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:46 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 33):
Time to forget the past and get on with life. No one can blame present day Germans for what happened in the past !!!

Yes but a bit of a grizzle OA. "Bringing it up to forget" is a bit like a modern version of the Basil Fawlty line. Let us remember that the first to suffer from that regime were the Germans themselves. Just as the UK in the 20s and 30s was trying to recover without its "brightest and best" German recovery from that has had to be without its brightest and best. In Germany's case it was after over a decade of selective removal of the best. Just recovering should make Germans proud and they have done a damned sight better than that.

Not that I am suggesting the episode should be forgotten, just it is now not very significant in relation to modern Germany.
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:09 am



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
But I see it with myself .. I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !

Growing up in the US, a lot of people were amazed to learn that I am Jewish with German background. They didn't think that was possible. I guess they were just ignorant fools, but whatever.

Both my dad and grandfather were born in München and I am proud of my German heritage. I studied German in High School and I hope to one day, visit the country of where my family came from.

So I say, be proud! Nothing to be ashamed of!

Though I guess being a proud American nowadays is getting harder and harder at the atrocities this government is doing. It is mind boggling that Bush will veto the water boarding ban, as it is an "important tool against terror". BS I say! More ironic that McCain supports it when he himself was tortured.
 
f.pier
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:36 pm

You should be proud to be German, you are clever, well educated, organized and your country is very beautiful.

The opposite of my state, Italy, full of bad educated, unorganized and ........

Unfortunately I think "my" people next april will vote once again for that person which is absolutely bad and a shame for the whole italy. But it well represents Italy, because Italy is like him. And I think it's bad.

So don't worry. You are German and should be proud to be. Think that there are other states which really should not be happy.......
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
There is nothing wrong about identifying with your (our) country, or expressing your appreciation for it.

I'm just rather suspicious of the term "pride" in this particular context, as it usually transitions seamlessly into chauvinism and nationalism. And we don't just have to look at the Third Reich to see that that's not a direction which actually does a country any good.

Klaus I knew there was a reason you were on my RU list.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:09 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?

I think you should be proud. I'm not German, but after living for a year in Hamburg I felt proud to be in some way a part of such a functional society. I plan on living and working in Germany after I graduate - that's how much I admire you Krauts! - so be proud!  Smile

Toni
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
Farnborough24
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:26 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:45 pm



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 46):
Don't know if this is a very good example of a "good" person, to be honest...Marxism and its descendants killed far more people than Fascism in the 20th century, and the deaths and repression go on to this day.

Not a criticism, as it's easy to think these things looking at what we read in the papers/saw in the Eastern Bloc (well, I didn't see, but have studied...), but I don't think this can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. He was a thinker, who came up with a different system and a theory as to how that would naturally come about. What he wrote doesn't tally with what came about, so I think it's unfair to imply the 'deaths and repression' were really his fault. It's by far more the fault of meglomaniacs who distort his thinking for their own gain and then impose that upon the layman under the guise of Marxism.

As for feeling national pride as a German, you should. Germany is a fine country-a strong economic power, a respectable political power, an excellent producer of many goods exported the world over, a leading contributer to Airbus...hell I could even say (winces) that you have a decent football team.

I think feeling some national pride and patriotism is perfectly natural-I'm bloody proud to be British, and wouldn't change it for the world, but it's only good up until a point. Beyond that you develop a superiority complex, become inward looking and no longer receptive to other countries/cultures, which will not make our world a better place. Nationalistic political parties like the BNP (here) and prats like its leader Nick Griffin come to mind here...

Anyway the long and short of it is no country has a clean slate-Britain has done many shameful things in places like India in the past, but the point is if your country has moved on and recognised its wrongs, just as Britain and Germany have done, than it's nothing to be ashamed of.
My Saab 9000-the chav eater!
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:41 pm

I am very proud to be German and I wouldn't change my German passport for any other in this world. I really like it when I am abroad and people who noticed that I am from Germany (e.g. immigration officers) start a small-talk with the words: "You come from the land with the good looking cars" or Why didn't you bring me one of the tasty German beers?".  Smile I am sure that we Germans have a good reputation all over the world so I am proud to be German.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
JCKastrup
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:57 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:59 am



Quoting CF188A (Reply 10):
what is the first thing that comes to most peoples minds when they think of Germany ?


1) World Wars / Third Reich / Holocaust / Hitler

2) BMW / Mercedes / Chocolate

Personally i think of Heineken and the liberal laws of the German autobahns when i think of Germany. But i guess that's just me

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
Johann Sebastian Bach (and sons)
Ludwig van Beethoven
Johannes Brahms
Bertolt Brecht
Albrecht Dürer
Max Ernst
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Günter Grass
Hermann Hesse
Immanuel Kant
Karl Lagerfeld
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Felix Mendelsohn
Willy Messerschmidt (we are on A.net)
Friedrich Nietzsche
Carl Orff
Johann Pachelbel
Pope Benedict XVI Joseph Ratzinger
Claudia Schiffer
Friedrich Schiller
Arthur Schopenhauer
Albert Schweitzer
Richard Strauss
Richard Wagner
Ferdinand von Zeppelin (this is A.net)

 bigthumbsup  A lot of great people on that list. Please add Heidi Klum



But seriously. Germany has a nasty history, but have since 1945 evolved into a strong democracy, with great industrial and economic power. You should be proud of your country.

A lot of countries worldwide has a history of fascism, wars, slavery and persecution of minorities. The difference for Germany, is that they were rather successful in being nazis, so history will remember The fascist Germany more than ,for example, the fascist Italy or the Apartheid in South Africa.
Who the hell wants to fly to JFK? Nobody does, That's who!
 
slider
Posts: 7514
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:53 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !

I’m well aware of, as most of us are, the history of Germany, even pre-WWII and in the context of the Holocaust. But the German people need to stop this self-flagellation and suppression of what should be natural national pride. There’s nothing wrong with it.

If anything, I think suppressing it may be inducing pressure and only giving rise to institutional frustration…there needs to be some harmonious equilibrium and I’ve not seen that much from Germany. I’m American of German descent and proud of it (family is from Klusserath, on the Mosel River between Trier and Koblenz)…I know that’s a different context from being a German native living in Germany, regardless of ancestry and particular regional orientation, but I think intellectually most people now in the 21st Century have reconciled the horrors of WWII and can embrace a certain degree of ethno-nationalism without automatically freaking out about the Holocaust.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:05 pm

Be proud! every German that i have come in contact with have represented Germany very well, they are well mannered and polite!
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:14 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 58):
the German people need to stop this self-flagellation

What if they actually like it?  Wink

Quoting Slider (Reply 58):
suppression of what should be natural national pride.

National pride, natural? I sure hope it isn't...

Quoting Slider (Reply 58):
family is from Klusserath, on the Mosel River between Trier and Koblenz

Hey, I've been there - beautiful vineyards...

Quoting Slider (Reply 58):
I think intellectually most people now in the 21st Century have reconciled the horrors of WWII

I have, but there's always another nationalistic/xenophobic massacre going on somewhere today. As long as people get killed because of somebody's inane national pride, I will not consider patriotism healthy or natural.

If you really think you should be proud of the achievements of people who just happened to be born in the same administrative division of the planet as you, that's your problem. Just don't come waving your flag in my face, please. Applies to Germany and every other country.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
Fiatstilojtd
Posts: 870
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:59 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:22 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 56):
I am sure that we Germans have a good reputation all over the world

When it comes to know-how, reliability etc. I agree Patrick, but when it comes to tourists, hell no, I would not be so sure about that, there are famous Travel Guides available that suggest that: "Wenn Sie Deutscher sind sollten Sie sich in manchen Regionen lieber als Österreicher ausgeben"  

[Edited 2008-03-10 08:26:21]
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 61):
"Wenn Sie Deutscher sind sollten Sie sich in manchen Regionen lieber als Österreicher ausgeben"

A Tyrolean hat with a feather won't fool anybody if you're still wearing socks with your sandals Big grin
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
signol
Posts: 2652
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:18 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:42 pm



Quoting JCKastrup (Reply 57):
Personally i think of Heineken

I think you'll find that Heineken is Dutch...

There's a TV trailer on at the moment, featuring stand-up comedian Jack Dee. He says he's thinking of buying a German car, so phones his dad. His reply is that "You can't buy a German car with what your grandfather went through in the war"...

Apparently, during the war, his grandfather had a series of very unreliable German cars.  Smile

Personally, I love Germany. I've visited many areas, and kept up practice of German since school. I would even consider living there, except that my wife only speaks English.

signol
Flights booked: NWI-AMS-JNB-DUR, JNB-AMS-NWI
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:04 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?

it basically should be a perfectly normal thing of a successful country. But of course, German nationalism abroad has the flavour of "Deutschland ueber alles" ! But just look at that nice trailer coming on ARD/ZDF at the end of the program at night, with the nice pictures and all ! If it is "done" in a decent way, there is no reason why you should not be proud about your country
-

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
Chocolate should be Swiss, or Finnish

Swiss or Belgian. The Belgian chocolatiers are a top class. What the Germans however have is the most supreme MARZIPAN (Aachen + Luebeck) !
-

Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 18):
in Austria watch out for

and MOZART-KUGELN !  praise   yummy   yummy 
-
 
slider
Posts: 7514
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:33 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 60):
Hey, I've been there - beautiful vineyards...

That's what I've heard! I'm heading over this year for sure.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:23 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 65):
beautiful vineyards...

That's what I've heard! I'm heading over this year for sure.

the vineyards may be beautiful, but the wines are praiseworthy, like these
-


-
sure things the Germans can be proud of !
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:31 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 58):
I’m American of German descent and proud of it (family is from Klusserath, on the Mosel River between Trier and Koblenz)…



Quoting Slider (Reply 65):
Quoting Toast (Reply 60):
Hey, I've been there - beautiful vineyards...

That's what I've heard! I'm heading over this year for sure.

Slider,

The village is called Kluesserath (the u is a German Umlaut with two dots on top, if you don't have it on your keyboard, you can use "ue" as an alternative spelling) and is just downstream of Trier on the the Eiffel side of the Mosel river. I live about 50 km away from this place. The Mosel looks great in late summer, when the grapes ripen, but is at this time overcrowded with tourists (mainly from the US, Japan and the Netherlands).
One hint: When you are in Trier, take one of the river boats to Koblenz and enjoy the trip.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:50 am

Sorry, I didn't have the time to read through all these replies. I see no reason to be proud of something that you didn't accomplish. You have absolutely no reason to feel associated with Germany's past; I'm sure most everyone has let that go by now. But pride? I mean, you didn't choose to be of any particular nationality. Love your country and support it; wave your flag if you like. But pride? I don't get that.

Be proud of your accomplishments if you so desire, and love and support your country, or criticize it if you need to. It's your obligation as a citizen.

As an example for me: I'm not proud to be an American, because I had nothing to do with the sexual encounter between my Mom and Dad 45 years ago that resulted in my birth. So, how the hell can I be proud of it?

That does not mean that I have anything but admiration and appreciation for what this country presents to me, however. I have the right to express myself, and the right to be who I want to be. It just makes no sense to me to be proud of it.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
slider
Posts: 7514
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:30 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 67):
Slider,

The village is called Kluesserath (the u is a German Umlaut with two dots on top, if you don't have it on your keyboard, you can use "ue" as an alternative spelling) and is just downstream of Trier on the the Eiffel side of the Mosel river. I live about 50 km away from this place. The Mosel looks great in late summer, when the grapes ripen, but is at this time overcrowded with tourists (mainly from the US, Japan and the Netherlands).
One hint: When you are in Trier, take one of the river boats to Koblenz and enjoy the trip.

Jan

Thanks Jan! Man, I appreciate the advice...and for the spelling heads-up; I had seen it spelled both ways, but am glad for the clarification. Can't wait to get over there.  Smile
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:39 am



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?

Of course it's not a problem, in fact for me it's a more serious problem that so many of you feel you can't be proud of your country. Germany is a great country, I love visiting it and any contact I've had with German people has always been excellent. It's not your fault what happened over half a century ago.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?

Of course you do. As stated by others, Germany has contributed and continues to contribute many great things to the world. Yes, your history is awful, but while none of us (Germans or foreigners) should ever forget what happened, you as German citizens must remember that it is history, that Germany has moved on and become a great democratic land. And you cannot be held responsible for or feel ashamed for what people did in the past, it's not your fault.

So my Germand friends, from a foreigner's perspective you live in a great country and you have every right and reason to be proud of being German today.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:59 am

Definitely be proud of being a German. People tend to live in the past but look forward!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
Günter Grass

Be careful with him as he only lately confessed that he was in the SS during WW2.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26542
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Can I Be Proud Of Being German?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:12 pm

You should absolutely be proud to be German. While you should not be proud of the past, the German of today has nothing to do with the Third Reich other than language. Today's Germany is one of the most progressive and inclusive countries in the world.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: northstardc4m and 27 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos