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Farcry
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UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:13 pm

I personally don't think so. How do they warrant spending this sort of money?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7287525.stm

I just despair at the stupidity of our Government.

Farcry
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:30 pm

This is what enrages me about this Labour government, not that the Tories are any better, they were pro-war warmongers. Here we are fighting a bogus "war" based on Tony Blair's disastrous and naive foreign policy. While at the same time people are blatantly being denied life-saving cancer drugs because of "cost-effectiveness". It really is a disgrace with billions being spent on a pointless conflict in Iraq which is none of our business despite what Blair and his cronies would like us to think. I am sick and tired of this generation of politicians who spin, tweak, twist, manipulate and distort the facts to carry out their agenda.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
planesarecool
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:00 pm

Lets see:

A useless education system
A close to useless healthcare system
£12.5billion a year on incapacity benefits
£9.1billion a year on staying in the EU (with very little benefit)
£3.3billion a year on two pointless wars
£300,000 for Charles and Camilla to go on a yacht around the Caribbean
God knows how much on foreign prisoners that should be deported, but aren't because it may 'breach their human rights'  Yeah sure
God knows how much on politicians 'expenses' (shopping trips, second homes etc)
God knows how much on 'global warming' or whatever that is.

So no, actually, I don't think our taxes are well spent.
 
Klaus
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:09 pm



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
£9.1billion a year on staying in the EU (with very little benefit)

Then just leave and compare. You'll be quite surprised.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):

What a litany of baseless statements mired in ignorance and rashness.

Thank god I emerged from the British education system without a 'useless' brain.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:08 pm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
A useless education system
A close to useless healthcare system
£12.5billion a year on incapacity benefits
£9.1billion a year on staying in the EU (with very little benefit)
£3.3billion a year on two pointless wars
£300,000 for Charles and Camilla to go on a yacht around the Caribbean
God knows how much on foreign prisoners that should be deported, but aren't because it may 'breach their human rights'
God knows how much on politicians 'expenses' (shopping trips, second homes etc)
God knows how much on 'global warming' or whatever that is.



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 4):
What a litany of baseless statements mired in ignorance and rashness.

I don't think you can say these are all baseless statements. We have a country that is denying people life saving drugs when they have worked their whole lives and payed taxes. Thats a pretty useless healthcare system to me.

We are spending £3.3billion on wars we shouldn't be involved in to begin with considering 1/2 of all children in London apparently live in poverty.( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7268448.stm )

We are bribing foreign prisioners to the tune of £3000 each to go home after their sentences when in most countries they would just be deported, yet students have to pay £3000 each to go to university. Where is the justice in that?

This country certainly isn't using tax payers money properly.

[Edited 2008-03-10 14:09:29]
 
davehammer
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:41 pm

Same old same old with a Labour government. If in doubt hurl money at it. When money fails because problems actually need to be looked at at a deeper level you then claim that it's due to underfunding by the Tories pre 1997 and say the words 'in real terms' as many times as possible.
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3257
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:19 pm



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 4):
What a litany of baseless statements mired in ignorance and rashness.

Yep, completely baseless and incorrect:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
A useless education system

Three recent cases:

"Government figures show only 15% of white working class boys in England got five good GCSEs including maths and English last year"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7220683.stm

"Teachers want homework to be abolished for primary school age children."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7287962.stm

"The announcement comes after it was reported that oral tests were being dropped as they were "too stressful".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7249090.stm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
A close to useless healthcare system

Three recent cases:

"If you've ever worried about British hospitals, here are some scary stats for you: In the last year 100,000 people who went into hospital got an infection there. Of those, 5,000 died."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...ammes/shouldiworryabout/mrsa.shtml

"The number of deaths linked to hospital bug Clostridium difficile has soared in England and Wales, figures from the Office for National Statistics show."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7268578.stm

"A grandmother has said she will go blind unless she can persuade her local NHS to fund drug treatment. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7288326.stm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
£12.5billion a year on incapacity benefits

"The party is pledging to bring in more regular tests for people claiming the benefit - which costs the taxpayer £12.5bn every year. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7173453.stm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
£9.1billion a year on staying in the EU (with very little benefit)

I admit, this is incorrect. It's actually £10.2billion a year

"But under the 2007-13 financial perspective the UK’s contribution, after the reduced rebate, will be £10.2 billion a year"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politic...inewhip/dec07/eumembershipcost.htm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
£3.3billion a year on two pointless wars

See thread starter

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
God knows how much on foreign prisoners that should be deported, but aren't because it may 'breach their human rights'

"Learco Chindamo, 26, is serving a life sentence for killing Mr Lawrence outside his London school in 1995. Chindamo's lawyers argued that deporting him to Italy, where he was born, would breach his human rights. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6955071.stm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
God knows how much on politicians 'expenses' (shopping trips, second homes etc)

"The average MP cost taxpayers £118,000 in allowances and expenses last year, it was revealed yesterday when the House of Commons opened its books in an attempt to counter accusations of fiddling and sleaze."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/oct/22/houseofcommons.uk

So yes, obviously everything I said was completely baseless and untrue. Clearly our government's spending is absolutely perfect, and the country is absolutely fine. Heck, even our football team is world class, and our weather is second to none!  Yeah sure
 
gkirk
Posts: 23404
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:40 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Then just leave and compare. You'll be quite surprised.

Aye, we'll be much better off.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Farnborough24
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:26 am

RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:38 am



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
A useless education system
A close to useless healthcare system



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
£9.1billion a year on staying in the EU (with very little benefit)

Are you having a laugh? Would you rather pay for education then? I learnt to read and write for free, and I got good GCSEs and A-levels for free, and I pay £3080 a year to go to university where abroad many pay up to £10000. It's not useless. As for teachers wanting to drop homework in primary school, I absolutely support that. Small children should not be couped up inside doing homework-they should be out and about doing swimming lessons, learning musical instruments, playing sport etc. I had virtually no homework at primary school, and did perfectly well in education.

As for the healthcare system, it's not close to useless, just the BBC don't exactly publish stories like 'girl breaks arm, goes to hospital, has it put in a cast and has follow up appointments for 6 weeks, whereupon the cast is removed and her arm is fine, all for free', do they? It's not really interesting reading. As far as I'm concerned, the NHS is far from perfect, but in some notable other countries the government will leave you to die if you can't afford healthcare. I think the NHS is pretty good considering what a nightmare it must be to run. In my opinion if we didn't engage ourselves in unnecessary wars and put funding into education and the NHS they'd be better, but I think you're being harsh on them.

On the topic of Iraq/Afghanistan, and spending more there, we've gone in, ruined and de-stablilised their countries, and now have a responsibility to sort them out. It's not one I want or think we should have, but what's done is done and we've got no choice but to stay until the job is done now. Of course, whether it'll ever be done or not is a good question. Probably not, but it can get better than it is now.

So finally on to your comments regarding the EU. Seriously, is that a joke? 'Very little benefit from staying in the EU'? Tiny benefits like miles cheaper/free trade? Just how well do you think our economy would do if we left the EU, and suddenly it cost countries within the EU miles more to trade with us? I'll tell you how it would do-badly, because nobody within the EU would be buying from us. Genius. Not only that, but for us buying European goods will cost a fortune, meaning consumer goods you buy will go up in price. Bet you'd love that. British companies will fail, make people unempolyed, and they'll have to claim benefits, taking more taxpayers' money which could go on schools/the NHS. I could go on for a long time.

And how well will our economy do without the European workers coming here and doing the jobs we don't want to do, providing over a million extra taxpayers to improve our NHS and schools, and spending money here, increasing our GDP and making Britain richer? I'll tell you the answer to that aswell-badly.

I could go on with this point for a long time, but hopefully you'll have got the gist of it. I recognise the media, some newspapers in particular (*cough* the Daily Mail *cough*) would have you believe the EU is the root of all evil, but I would give a friendly suggestion that in future you do a little more research before deciding something as big as the EU is of very little benefit. It might almost interest you to know that that £10 billion you talk about to be in it is something like just over 1% of our GDP-not a lot really.

I often question why taxes go to some places that they do, but the EU definitely does not come in to this list.
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planesarecool
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:58 pm



Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
Are you having a laugh? Would you rather pay for education then? I learnt to read and write for free, and I got good GCSEs and A-levels for free,

Are you having a laugh? You didn't get anything for free, as your taxes (no sorry, your parents' taxes) paid for that.

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
As for the healthcare system, it's not close to useless, just the BBC don't exactly publish stories like 'girl breaks arm, goes to hospital, has it put in a cast and has follow up appointments for 6 weeks, whereupon the cast is removed and her arm is fine, all for free', do they?

Of course they don't, but if I break my arm, I'd expect them to be able to fix it. That's what I pay my taxes for. The fact is, more and more people are going into hospital for minor issues and picking up a superbug such as MRSA and C Difficile. And why should an elderly woman, who has paid her taxes over the years, be made to go blind because the NHS can't fund a drug that could save her sight?

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
Tiny benefits like miles cheaper/free trade?

With the EU, who despite being our closest neighbours, we do just 50% of our trade with. Granted, trade is one of the very few benefits of being in the EU. But look at Norway - they are not in the EU, and a greater % of their trade is with the EU. They also have a stable economy.

Also, the UK imports more from the EU than we export, so if we were to pull out, it would be EU companies that would lose out as well as the UK, so it would be in their interest as well as ours to maintain a free trade policy.

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
meaning consumer goods you buy will go up in price.

Wrong. Thanks to EU laws that want to protect Spanish manufacturers, we're paying much more than we should for underwear (for example), which would otherwise be imported from China for much lower prices.

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
And how well will our economy do without the European workers coming here and doing the jobs we don't want to do

And how well would our economy do without European workers coming here and putting a strain on our resources etc? Pulling out of the EU now would not mean sending every single Eastern European back, it would just give us power to limit those coming into the country from Europe, as we do with the rest of the world. I used to live in area full of immigrants. There was no walking down the street and saying hello to everyone you passed, as half the people couldn't even speak the language.

Some other issues with the EU:

- Farming subsidies have little benefit to the UK, as farming is such a small part of our economy. On top of that, our Farming is much more efficient than those in other EU countries, so the farming subsidies are only really benefiting farmers on the continent.
- Fishing quotas mean that thousands of dead cod are being poured back into the sea, simply because the EU restrict the amount that can be brought to shore. Meanwhile, I'm paying around £5 for a large cod at my local chippy.
- If we were to pull out, we'd get an "independence dividend" which is estimated to be around £25billion.

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
put funding into education



Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
which could go on schools



Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
taxpayers to improve our NHS and schools,

But according to you, there's nothing wrong with our education system. Make up your mind!

Quoting Farnborough24 (Reply 9):
I could go on with this point for a long time, but hopefully you'll have got the gist of it. I recognise the media, some newspapers in particular (*cough* the Daily Mail *cough*) would have you believe the EU is the root of all evil, but I would give a friendly suggestion that in future you do a little more research before deciding something as big as the EU is of very little benefit. It

And clearly whatever newspaper you read would have you believe that the EU is the saviour of everything in this country. You only mention trade, as if that's what the EU is wholly about. It's generally known that the EU is there to the benefit of Germany and France, not the UK. I was going to suggest that it is you who should do more research, but I think "wake up and smell the coffee" would be more appropriate.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 10):
Thanks to EU laws that want to protect Spanish manufacturers, we're paying much more than we should for underwear (for example), which would otherwise be imported from China for much lower prices.

What's wrong with that? You think there is not enough of fake, stolen or toxic Chinese junk flooding the EU market already? I have absolutely no problem with Spanish manufacturers paying their employees working in decent conditions, decent wages - as opposed to some sweatshop in China. Why bother with all those labor laws, HSE standards, ISO on this or that if you - as an irresponsibly shortsighted customer - end up buying stuff from companies, which made the products somewhere where all those standards are simply a non-issue and QC nonexistent?
 
Fiatstilojtd
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:21 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Then just leave and compare. You'll be quite surprised.

Best regards

Norway and Switzerland  Wink
 
Klaus
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:46 pm



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 10):
With the EU, who despite being our closest neighbours, we do just 50% of our trade with.

a) You're in the EU, not a "neighbour" of the EU.

b) Maybe that dismal percentage ought to tell you something.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 10):
You only mention trade, as if that's what the EU is wholly about. It's generally known that the EU is there to the benefit of Germany and France, not the UK. I was going to suggest that it is you who should do more research, but I think "wake up and smell the coffee" would be more appropriate.

Rubbish. The EU is designed to benefit all its active members. Britain's ineptitude and unwillingness in making the EU work for itself has a lot more to do with your envy than any evil continental conspiracy.

Erecting barriers wherever possible (shunning both the Euro and Schengen) have of course contributed to Britain bleeding dry of competitive manufacturing industry while we're booming at the same time. If you're interested in reversing those trends, maybe you should take a cold, hard look at your own approach to the EU instead of feeding your own xenophobia.

Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 12):
Best regards
Norway and Switzerland

Norway has all the costs of an EU membership but few of its advantages. But due to their oil revenue at least they can afford it.

Switzerland through the bilateral treaties has to comply with most EU regulations without actually having a vote.

Neither position looks in any way enviable to me.
 
davehammer
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:23 am

A bleeding dry of any competitive manufacturing industry? That went in the 80s under Thatcher. Been a service based economy for over 20 years now. This has nothing really to do with Schengen or the Euro.
 
Banco
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RE: UK Taxpayers Money Being Well Spent?

Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:19 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
b) Maybe that dismal percentage ought to tell you something.

That's an odd thing to say. Being a global trader is a now bad thing? Weird. Britain's material trade with the EU is relatively low compared to other countries because Britain is a huge investor right around the world, and has been for centuries. And then add the invisibles to that, by the way, which make up half of our economy.
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