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MaverickM11
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:43 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 148):
Really interesting to see which circles you guys associate with.

I guess I'm not surprised that a lot of a.netters have to pay for sex. I don't think I even know anyone that's ever paid for sex (cue rant about buying dinner for someone = prostitution Yeah sure).
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Tom in NO
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:44 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 129):
Governor Spitzer's situation is more than just a lapse in judgment, but an ongoing, serious ethical breach and a violation of his commitment to his family.

That's the bigger issue here. She's the main victim, the one he stabbed in the back, the one he betrayed and deceived.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
This should only be left between Mr & Mrs. Spitzer. The rest is none of our business.

Just like David and Wendy Vitter was none of our business, eh  wink 

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 141):
And so it begins with the comedians ... here's David Letterman's Top Ten from this evening's show.

I saw that last night...and had a chuckle. But then I checked myself...none of this is funny, it's tragic. And it goes to show that none of us, be we Republican, Democrat, Independent, politician, airport construction manager, burger flipper, pro athlete, whatever, none of us are infallible and none of us are beyond reproach.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
Newark777
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:45 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 151):
I don't think I even know anyone that's ever paid for sex

Same here, pretty disturbing.
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
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falstaff
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 148):
Really interesting to see which circles you guys associate with.

I have never paid for sex, but I don't have a problem with it. If Someone sleeps around and gives it away for free that is ok, but when money gets involved it is a crime. There are a lot more crimes that are a lot more serious than hiring a call girl.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Confuscius
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:17 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 153):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 151):
I don't think I even know anyone that's ever paid for sex

Same here, pretty disturbing.

They do but just don't know it and probably cost them a lot more. It might take a few dates; you know paying for dinners, drinks, theater tickets, cab fares, tips and so on...
Ain't I a stinker?
 
PacNWjet
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution R

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 154):
There are a lot more crimes that are a lot more serious than hiring a call girl.

Then why, pray tell, did New York Attorney General Elliot Spitzer bother prosecuting prostitution rings (which he did)? With all the more serious crimes taking place in New York, why did he bother with prostitution?
 
mirrodie
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:23 pm

First off, Spitzer's news reminds me of 9th grade NY history and politics. I love how these clowns play the role of the tough boss, the morally righteous icons and then fail so beautifully.

I'm reminded of names of old famous NYers, the Boss Tweeds and such and laugh at the fact, my son will have to read about this clown in his history courses.


Secondly and most importantly, David Paterson. It seems to me he was born with congenital optic atrophy with partial use of his right eye. The "zoned out" look one alluded to is what we call a slight ptosis of the eyebrow along with what appears to be a pupillary anomaly, most likely due to limited use of the left eye.



While the media is almost negatively stating, AD NAUSEUM, that he is legally blind and handicapped, let me say this:

He toiled through Columbia and then Hofstra Law School, then politics. That is no small feat for someone with PERFECT eyesight, let alone someone with a visual handicap.

What bothers me are those whose thoughts are so handicapped to think they are stuck with a blind governor.

I wish the man well. He should serve as an example to the many visually handicapped patients that I see regularly.

Spitzer..the only ending fitting is the some jailtime. For someone who played the card of the morally right, the only honorable thing for him to do would be to abide by the justice system which he upheld and follow its codes by the letter and spirit of the law.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:27 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 155):
. It might take a few dates; you know paying for dinners, drinks, theater tickets, cab fares, tips and so on...

It took three posts Silly
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Confuscius
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 156):
Then why, pray tell, did New York Attorney General Elliot Spitzer bother prosecuting prostitution rings (which he did)?

Because they were becoming monopolies like Walmart and Ma Bell?
Ain't I a stinker?
 
Superfly
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:34 pm



Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 152):
Just like David and Wendy Vitter was none of our business, eh

Agreed.
I could careless about what goes on between David & Wendy Vitter. The disturbing part was that candidate Vitter made being a moral Church going family man the center piece of his campaign. Also the part about wearing diapers was totally freaky.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 155):
They do but just don't know it and probably cost them a lot more. It might take a few dates; you know paying for dinners, drinks, theater tickets, cab fares, tips and so on...

Very true. Also, many get buy expensive jewelry and get dragged to the altar, then lose their house, car, skis, electronics, cameras in a divorce to a woman that hates your guts anyway.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 146):
A lot of people hire call girls. That doesn't make them bad people. He broke the law, but we all break the law from time to time. Everyone wants politicians to be held to a higher standard, but I say lets hold them to a lower standard. Nobody likes politicians anyway.

 checkmark 

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 146):
If they wanted privacy at MSP they should have gone to the observation deck, there are rarely people there.

LOL!  rotfl 
First he had to find a 'date' to take to the observation deck!  Silly



I am really amazed by all the angry members here who can walk on water. I'd like to meet some of you angels.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
PacNWjet
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution R

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:35 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 159):
Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 156):
Then why, pray tell, did New York Attorney General Elliot Spitzer bother prosecuting prostitution rings (which he did)?

Because they were becoming monopolies like Walmart and Ma Bell?

Well, then, at the very least, on his road to perdition he should have at least patronized the services of an independent contractor rather than "The Emperor's Club," the big box store of high-class call girls. Or perhaps he simply wanted to try to corner the market on hypocrisy and try out every angle before he faced his comeuppance.

Edited for a typo.

[Edited 2008-03-11 09:37:18]
 
Confuscius
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 160):
Very true. Also, many get buy expensive jewelry and get dragged to the altar, then lose their house, car, skis, electronics, cameras in a divorce to a woman that hates your guts anyway.

A hooker won't follow you home. Big grin

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 161):
Well, then, at the very least, on his road to perdition he should have at least patronized the services of an independent contractor rather than "The Emperor's Club," the big box store of high-class call girls.

You may be right...
Ain't I a stinker?
 
slider
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:53 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 90):
I'm guessing that 25-40% have done it at one time or another. The Kinsey report found that 80% of men have used one. This is of course inflated, but I know it has to be over 25%.

Kinsey has no credibility. I’m not naïve, but I don’t think the number is anywhere near that high. We’ll never know.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 141):
"Top Ten Eliot Spitzer Excuses"

1."I thought Bill Clinton legalized this years ago."

And here we are. I know Letterman jokes around, but there is some sad truth to this. When we allow it to happen, then it becomes commonplace and people accept aberrant behavior then. Thanks Slick One…you set a standard for Republican and Democrat scumbags to aspire to reach….you can be proud.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 144):
Well, that's good, but the national media and the NYC press didn't seem to be that interested.

Of course not! They helped get him elected! Duh. You think they’re going to turn on him? Media types are arrogant—they never like to admit they’re wrong so they won’t weigh in with anything other than false outrage and maybe some triangulation, but it won’t be on any bedrock moral stance as it should.
 
ogre727
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:55 pm



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 111):

Soliciting sex for money isn't acceptable, which is why it's against the law

Why isn't "acceptable". Who are you to say that? why is it that in many countries prostitution is LEGAL and controlled?

Don't apply your morals to me, I don't share them.

Don't apply them to everybody as a universal truth. You don't have the right.

When I was single I liked paying for sex every once in a while. And no, I am not ugly, or overweight, and I could get sex for free and did too. Paying made it fun for me. Can't explain it, and won't feel bad about it either.

This guy was a hypocrite, that's the main problem with him. And if prostitution is illegal in the US, well, that's a pretty stupid law in my personal opinion, but its the law, and he should not break it. So that's the second problem with him.
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
Blackbird
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:06 pm

The whole thing seems to tie back to the Bush administration...

The initial thing that got this started were large bank transactions, which due to the amount of money moved around were flagged. This happens a lot of times, but rarely federal action is taken because a lot of people who do this are rich and have the money to prove it. Federal-action in the form of investigation -- and if necessary, prosecution usually occurs when the person in question doesn't have all that much money and are moving ridiculous amounts of cash around.

There is evidence that this was politically motivated, with some even speculating that the government is tracking all large financial transactions from all democrats, hoping they can use it as justification to go on a fishing expedition.

Keep in mind, additionally, Elliot Spitzer is a superdelegate and was to vote for Hillary Clinton. With that said, I'm wondering why they would want to affect Clinton's stance in the election but not Obama?

Obama is on the committee that drafted up the S.1959 law which if misused could allow the government to technically crack down on free-speech under the guise of fighing-terrorism. While the bill hasn't gone anywhere in the Senate so far, it is something to think about.

We also know very little about Obama... I doubt it, but who knows, what if he was like a Manchurian Candidate


Andrea
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution R

Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:22 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 163):
Kinsey has no credibility.

 confused 
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Pyrex
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:46 pm



Quoting Andrej (Reply 48):
He did not used them in Nevada, but in DC

Well then, if that is the case then it shouldn't be a problem. Prostitution is probably one of the more honorable professions exercised in D.C., I would be much more worried as a voter if he had resorted to the services of a lobbyist.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
csavel
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:01 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
It wouldn't be so bad, except for the fact that he campaigned in a platform of bringing ethics into the office.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
I never read of Elliot Spitzer of being a moral crusader of family values and being a uptight prude.

Actually he did campaign on a platform, if not being an uptight prude, then at least anti-prostitution, stick to the letter of the law, and a take no prisoners SOB prosecutor. The fact that he prosecuted people so aggressively for doing what he did is what has people angry and calling for his resignation.

I think people outside of the beltway chattering classes can actually stand their politicians being fallible and human so long as they do not use their office to demand or coerce rectitude from the masses. I think that is one big reason Bill Clinton was able recover from Monica-gate. It wasn't like he was out there preaching moral rectitude and denouncing public figures who weren't paragons of virtue. When Bill got caught you think, "wow could've been one of us. he's just a bubbah." When Elliot got caught you think, "self righteous prick!"

While it seems that Republicans are more prone to the latter self-righteous kind, it isn't a Dem - Rep thing. If this had happened to former governor Pataki, I think people would've been more surprised in a wow, "didn't know he had, er, um, exotic tastes nudge nudge, wink wink." A couple of jokes here and there and would've been gone from the news cycle in a week.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 51):
The guys I know in the NY finance industry are loving this right now.

Can you imagine the amount of high fives in Joe Bruno's office last night?
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 160):
I could careless about what goes on between David & Wendy Vitter.

Except when Wendy threatened to go Lorena Bobbitt on him  wink  https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1662192 (replies 5 and 22)

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 146):
He broke the law, but we all break the law from time to time.

I get it.....if you're not cheating, you're not trying, and it's only cheating if you get caught  wink 

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:05 pm



Quoting Csavel (Reply 168):
Can you imagine the amount of high fives in Joe Bruno's office last night?

Wall Street and just about any industry as well...I heard stock brokers were (rightfully) cheering in the exchanges.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
AGM100
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:08 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 165):
The whole thing seems to tie back to the Bush administration...

Go figure ,,, blackbird ......

I transfer large amounts of money for business all the time , I dont care that the government sees it. And If I had the notion to pay a prostitute I would for god sakes not wire transfer them the freaking money from my bank. Spitzer's an idiot ! Not partisan either , same applies to Foley , the dude in the bathroom , and who ever else .

Like the Clinton issue , guys that are in power can not set themselves up to blackmail and extortion like this !. A CEO at a company I worked at got himself into this situation. Some employee took a photo of him at a Vegas suite party ..with hookers of course. That employee blackmailed him and the CEO was paying the employee off. Its Crazy for a elected official with the power they have to put themselves in this position.

Haven't any of these guys ever watched " LA Confidential " dont they understand the tangled web of public office !
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:15 pm

[Quoting=Ogre727]Why isn't "acceptable". Who are you to say that? why is it that in many countries prostitution is LEGAL and controlled?[/quote]
Well that's great if it's legal in France, but it's not legal here in the US. Therefore, here in the US, it is not acceptable. Don't you try and impose French ideals on America
Made from jets!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:16 pm



Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 152):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 129):
Governor Spitzer's situation is more than just a lapse in judgment, but an ongoing, serious ethical breach and a violation of his commitment to his family.

That's the bigger issue here. She's the main victim, the one he stabbed in the back, the one he betrayed and deceived.

And again, if he cannot be trusted to uphold his commitment to the one person who should matter most to him, how can he be trusted with upholding his commitment to the people who elected him?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 160):
I am really amazed by all the angry members here who can walk on water. I'd like to meet some of you angels

We're not all perfect - but then again, none of us here are running for or holding public office under the pretense of being a champion of the law either. And that's the difference.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 165):
The whole thing seems to tie back to the Bush administration...

Does your mental defect require that you publicly blame things on the President at least once a day?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
andessmf
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 165):
The whole thing seems to tie back to the Bush administration...

The initial thing that got this started were large bank transactions

Umm...riiiiiiight...

In case some did not read the case right, the credit card company saw 'suspicious' transfers and the original belief was that it was bribes that he was hiding.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 172):
but it's not legal here in the US. Therefore, here in the US, it is not acceptable.

There are some places where it is legal.

Quoting Csavel (Reply 168):
I think people outside of the beltway chattering classes can actually stand their politicians being fallible and human so long as they do not use their office to demand or coerce rectitude from the masses. I think that is one big reason Bill Clinton was able recover from Monica-gate. It wasn't like he was out there preaching moral rectitude and denouncing public figures who weren't paragons of virtue. When Bill got caught you think, "wow could've been one of us. he's just a bubbah." When Elliot got caught you think, "self righteous prick!"

Couldn't have said it better myself. When Monicagate occurred, I would have said that the vast majority of the people believed that he did it.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:48 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 165):
The whole thing seems to tie back to the Bush administration...

The initial thing that got this started were large bank transactions, which due to the amount of money moved around were flagged. This happens a lot of times, but rarely federal action is taken because a lot of people who do this are rich and have the money to prove it. Federal-action in the form of investigation -- and if necessary, prosecution usually occurs when the person in question doesn't have all that much money and are moving ridiculous amounts of cash around.

So if the Bush administration were not tracking large money transfers Spitzer would have gotten away with breaking the law? Why doesn't that make me feel any more sympathetic to Spitzer?
 
slider
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:49 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 174):
When Monicagate occurred, I would have said that the vast majority of the people believed that he did it.

But he lied about it, which was what the real crux of the issue was for many people.

Contrary to the conventional wisdom of too many people here, there are a good number of normal people in this world who try to act honorably, tell the truth, not abuse their positions of power whether elected or not, work hard to honor their marital vows and treat people with respect.

Novel ideas, huh? If that makes me "holier-than-thou" in some people's eyes so be it.

Spitzer is a shitbag. Clinton is too. All of them, regardless of political stripe lack any moral authority and therefore, the claim to govern anyone.
 
andessmf
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:04 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 176):
But he lied about it, which was what the real crux of the issue was for many people.

Pretty much. Very few people would have had the moral authority to chide Clinton for his indiscretions. But the lying was sort of an insult to the people like me that were pretty certain it was true.

But Spitzer is a prosecutor, and an aggressive one at that. I am much more disturbed by a certain level of stupidity reflected by his actions. If he was (rightfully or wrongfully) creating plenty of enemies by his actions, he must have known that those opposed to him would try to bring him down.

As Nixon once said, you don't provide your enemies with the sword to kill you.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:10 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 170):
Wall Street and just about any industry as well...I heard stock brokers were (rightfully) cheering in the exchanges.

I work at an insurance agency and everyone here is going nuts. "All Right!!"

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
Superfly
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 169):
Except when Wendy threatened to go Lorena Bobbitt on him wink Sen. David Vitter (R): My Kind Of Conservative  Smile (by Confuscius Jul 11 2007 in Non Aviation) (replies 5 and 22)

Well she publicly made a comment which entails carrying out an act of violence. Therefore it does deserve some scrutiny. Of course we all know Mrs. Vitter wouldn't have done it. It is just funny how she had to eat her words.
I haven't heard a word from Mrs. Spitzer.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 173):
We're not all perfect - but then again, none of us here are running for or holding public office under the pretense of being a champion of the law either. And that's the difference.

I wasn't referring to you. I know you don't walk on water.  Wink
Bring back the Concorde
 
ogre727
Posts: 552
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 172):
Well that's great if it's legal in France, but it's not legal here in the US. Therefore, here in the US, it is not acceptable. Don't you try and impose French ideals on America



Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 164):
This guy was a hypocrite, that's the main problem with him. And if prostitution is illegal in the US, well, that's a pretty stupid law in my personal opinion, but its the law, and he should not break it. So that's the second problem with him.

Did you even read my post? I was just saying that "unacceptable" depends on the country. I even went on to say that he broke the law in the US, and that was not right.

Actually my point was exactly that, not to impose your beliefs or country laws as if they apply or should apply in the whole world.

You really didn't read my post...
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:11 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 153):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 151):
I don't think I even know anyone that's ever paid for sex

Same here, pretty disturbing.

I guarantee that you do. Perhaps you come across as judgemental so people do not want to discuss it with you. The odds are that a male in your immediate family and severeral of your friends have used one.

I find it fascinating that some, such as yourself, are so disgusted by it. If you were to go to Germany or most places in Europe it is tolerated. Even places where it is illegal it is tolerated. Spain has huge "Clubs" on the side of the highways which are whorehouses that the police or no one care about. The UK has huge "punter" websites that show available whore houses and available escorts. It is rare for the authorities to crack down on them. In most places in Canada, Mexico, and Latin America it is highly tolerated. In Vancouver it is not only accepted, it might as well be legal. Don't even get me started on Eastern Eurpoe. In Japan it is very common for the men to go to bath or "soap" houses where they are taken care of in a Sauna environment. It is rare for these places to be cracked down on as well. Internationally you will find that it is tolerated in a most countries with the exception of children and foreign held traffic rings. In most US cities you will also find tolerance for escort services. The authorities would much prefer it to be done behind closed doors rather than having hos walking up and down the city's main thouroughfares. Everynow and then they do a vice operation on non-rings here in Phoenix because Sherriff Joe wants to get some publicity. He had one bust here about 5 years ago where he brought in 50 women and all charges had to be dropped because he broke the law in every single case.

Voluntary adult prostitution is accepted in a majority of countries around the world. It will be for the rest of time. Get over it.

Quoting Slider (Reply 163):
Kinsey has no credibility.

Please tell me how you can discredit someone who has been the foundation and initial authority on sexual behavior for the last 60 years. Again, I find the 80% to be a little high but there is no evidence to contradict it. You certainly don't have the same credibility.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 160):
I am really amazed by all the angry members here who can walk on water.

Well I'm not angry, but it is disturbing that he catapulted to his position fighting against the same thing that's looking to bring him down.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 160):
I'd like to meet some of you angels.

Not an angel myself - I could end up doing something this bad or worse (God forbid), but, as far as meeting, time and place, dude.  thumbsup 
Living the American Dream
 
PacNWjet
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:53 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):
If you were to go to Germany or most places in Europe it is tolerated. Even places where it is illegal it is tolerated. Spain has huge "Clubs" on the side of the highways which are whorehouses that the police or no one care about. The UK has huge "punter" websites that show available whore houses and available escorts. It is rare for the authorities to crack down on them. In most places in Canada, Mexico, and Latin America it is highly tolerated. In Vancouver it is not only accepted, it might as well be legal. Don't even get me started on Eastern Eurpoe. In Japan it is very common for the men to go to bath or "soap" houses where they are taken care of in a Sauna environment. It is rare for these places to be cracked down on as well. Internationally you will find that it is tolerated in a most countries with the exception of children and foreign held traffic rings. In most US cities you will also find tolerance for escort services. The authorities would much prefer it to be done behind closed doors rather than having hos walking up and down the city's main thouroughfares.

I read these comments, nodding my head, saying to myself, yup, yup, all of this is true, and if it were up to me, prostitution would be legal.

But bringing things back to Eliot Spitzer, the ironic part, and the reason why he should be in the trouble that he is in, is despite his personal feelings on the matter, as an attorney general and prosecutor he used his office to prosecute prostitution. We can sit around all day long and tut tut those who condemn prostitution on moral grounds. But the salient point is that Eliot Spitzer didn't tut tut prostitution, he prosecuted it as a crime. So our moral judgements about prostitution are irrelevant in the Spitzer case. What matters in this case is if he used the law to go after prostitution as a crime, he must be held to the same standard.
 
slider
Posts: 7721
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):
Please tell me how you can discredit someone who has been the foundation and initial authority on sexual behavior for the last 60 years. Again, I find the 80% to be a little high but there is no evidence to contradict it. You certainly don't have the same credibility.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2479

Plenty of info out there that debunks Kinsey as the crackpot he was.

There is no evidence to support his assertion, you brought it up, so I'd kindly ask you to support it.

Again, attack the poster. Classic. I wasn't the one who made outlandish claims about how so many men have visited hookers....
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14 pm

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 183):
We can sit around all day long and tut tut those who condemn prostitution on moral grounds. But the salient point is that Eliot Spitzer didn't tut tut prostitution, he prosecuted it as a crime. So our moral judgements about prostitution are irrelevant in the Spitzer case. What matters in this case is if he used the law to go after prostitution as a crime, he must be held to the same standard.

I agree. And the same standard would be a misdemeanor charge and he would not lose his job. I am not positive of the answer, perhaps a cop can help-if an off duty police officer was caught soliciting a prostitute, I don't believe that he would be fired in most instances. A suspension and he would probably be back on the force.


I'm willing to bet that they won't even prosecute him for the soliciting. Its a misdemeanor and not really worth their time. From what I understand he has not even been charged with anything yet. So all of the moral judgements on that point are moot. If he is prosecuted on the felony funds charge (I'm not sure I get it but I guess its illegal for him to try to hide the transaction with bank transfers as he did because he is a public servant required to have transparency?) than all of the judgements and "moral indignation" for the prostitution will be transposed onto the other charge. I personally don't believe that he will be charged with anything because of the minuteness of the crime. They were looking for corruption in the form of bribes and kickbacks, but they found him banging some escorts and trying to hide the charges from his wife.

[Edited 2008-03-11 14:33:06]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:19 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 184):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):
Please tell me how you can discredit someone who has been the foundation and initial authority on sexual behavior for the last 60 years. Again, I find the 80% to be a little high but there is no evidence to contradict it. You certainly don't have the same credibility.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2479

Plenty of info out there that debunks Kinsey as the crackpot he was.

     

Yes! A wonderful link to support your statement!    "The Truth Seeker".

Here's another article on the same website.

The September 11 operation modified the course of events in the world in the direction chosen by transnational mafias and international oligarchs; that is, those who hope to control the planet’s natural resources, the world information network and the financial flows. This operation also favored the US economic and political elite that also seeks world dominance.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4076

 rotfl 


Perhaps we should ask David Duke why Martin Luther King was a crackpot.  

Quoting Slider (Reply 184):
Again, attack the poster. Classic. I wasn't the one who made outlandish claims about how so many men have visited hookers....

I understand and won't hold it against you. Reality is scary to some people.

[Edited 2008-03-11 14:22:43]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:22 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 182):
Well I'm not angry, but it is disturbing that he catapulted to his position fighting against the same thing that's looking to bring him down.

Quite a common literary theme, isn't it?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
PacNWjet
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2000 1:18 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:33 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 185):
I agree. And the same standard would be a misdemeanor charge and he would not lose his job. I am not positive of the answer, perhaps a cop can help-if an off duty police offer was caught soliciting a prostitute, I don't believe that he would be fired in most instances. A suspension and he would probably be back on the force.

Well, I am not an attorney, so I don't know the answer to this. But from what I understand, members of the Bar are referred to as officers of the court and, as such, are held to a different status than civilians and even to uniformed members of law enforcement. I believe that officers of the court can be disbarred for infractions that would be relatively inconsequential for non-attorneys. Also, as Governor of New York, Spitzer swore an oath to uphold the law. So, politically, it would be difficult to stay in office even if he were convicted of only a minor crime. There may even be constitutional rules in New York that allow removal from office for a conviction on any crime, but on this I have no specific knowledge.
 
csavel
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:34 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 184):
Plenty of info out there that debunks Kinsey as the crackpot he was.

Um, you might not want to point to the link you posted to prove your point. Firstly, Judith Reisman is a crackpot and thinks not only hard core porn is porn but things like sexy model swimwear ads. She'd be happy if every female was in a Burka. She definitely has an axe to grind.

Secondly, The TruthSeeker, which sounds like a bunch of very very angry crackpots. The sidebar links to other truthseeker articles include shocking revelations like Spitzer's pimp holds a "shock" Israeli passort (cue evillll music) and and how Humanity is under attack by the occult. They seem to hate Israel, deny the Holocaust, but equally hate Israel's enemies, them rag-wearing Muslims. At least-they are equal opportunity xenophobes.

Truthseeker seems to aggregate articles from well-respected sites, like, er, um, well, WorldNetDaily. But I did spend an amusing hour goofing off at work marvelling at the tin-foil hat nutters out there.

You might go to Google scholar and try to come up with articles about Kinsey.

You can criticize Kinsey all you want, and his stature is more in the manner of he was the first to try to systematically and scientifically study sex, how successful he was is up to debate. In that he is similar to Freud in psychology. There *are* a lot of problems with Kinsey's research, the subjects (especially in the more conservative 40s when s-x wasn't talked about) were self-selected and although some steps were taken to correct that, the problems of trying to correct for self-selection wasn't considered in almost all social science research then. it's still a problem now.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
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RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:35 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):
The odds are that a male in your immediate family and severeral of your friends have used one.

Yeah, I know. I AM disturbed by anyone who feels compelled to use hired sex. But not for the reasons you would think.

I have personally achieved all the milestones I have desired with a sexual partner, and I didn't have to pay for it. I used the simple powers of 'how to romance a lady'. Persuasion works well, too. And sometimes your lady will find out that SHE also likes what you do. I would NEVER do anything that a woman does not want me to do. But I would certainly offer them a 'repertoire' that would make most of you blush.

If he couldn't get something he wanted from his wife, and had to pay to get it from someone else, it is his own damn fault. And IMHO does not speak kindly of his character.
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):

Voluntary adult prostitution is accepted in a majority of countries around the world. It will be for the rest of time. Get over it.

Looks I hit a nerve. And I repeat, just because everyone you know does it, doesn't mean it's representative of the entire country.
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:40 pm

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 188):
But from what I understand, members of the Bar are referred to as officers of the court and, as such, are held to a different status than civilians and even to uniformed members of law enforcement. I believe that officers of the court can be disbarred for infractions that would be relatively inconsequential for non-attorneys.

I have had experiences with being convicted of misdemeanors. At one time I was seriously considering attending law school so I asked some attorneys that I know what my chances would be. They told me that one or two misdemeanors would not warrant someone being kicked off the bar, but it could certainly prevent someone from becoming a new member. One of the attorneys had a felony DUI and remains on the bar. He had to go jump through quite a few hoops to prove to the bar that he was reliable and he was in treatment, but the fact is he remains on the bar.

I think that the bar is specifically looking for corruption or deriliction of duty type of crimes to kick someone off with no recourse.

Of course, every state bar is different but I believe that in this case he would not be de-barred. That is unless new charges or evidence comes to light.

[Edited 2008-03-11 14:59:27]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
slider
Posts: 7721
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:44 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 186):
Reality is scary to some people.



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 191):
Looks I hit a nerve. And I repeat, just because everyone you know does it, doesn't mean it's representative of the entire country.

Exactly--talk about reality.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 190):
Yeah, I know. I AM disturbed by anyone who feels compelled to use hired sex. But not for the reasons you would think.

I have personally achieved all the milestones I have desired with a sexual partner, and I didn't have to pay for it. I used the simple powers of 'how to romance a lady'.

I agree wholeheartedly. The times in my life when I have used "the services" was in my early 20's between girlfriends. I had a few 3-6 month dryspots and my libido at the time would not be overcome by any amount of good sense. Some 10 years later or so and I am in a position where I don't look for the gratitius sex. Granted if I was to meet someone extremely hot that I get along with in a hotel bar, I am single, then its time for a little slip and slide. But as most of us find out as we grow older, the thought of having sex with someone that we have no intellectual or emotional connection is repulsive. There have been a few very attractive women here that I certainly had a chance with, but they were more concerned about Coach purses than life. That turns me off and I find myself in situations which I would never had thought possible-turning down a hot woman because she disgusts me.

That is why the ho's don't do anything for me at this stage in my life. However, I do understand that us men are horny pigs and prostitutes will be around for quite awhile. In the meantime the female pigs of our species merely have to wear a short skirt and show up at a nice bar/restaurant.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:57 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 191):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 181):

Voluntary adult prostitution is accepted in a majority of countries around the world. It will be for the rest of time. Get over it.

Looks I hit a nerve. And I repeat, just because everyone you know does it, doesn't mean it's representative of the entire country.



Quoting Slider (Reply 193):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 186):
Reality is scary to some people.



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 191):
Looks I hit a nerve. And I repeat, just because everyone you know does it, doesn't mean it's representative of the entire country.

Exactly--talk about reality.

Ok guys I get it. You don't hang out with people who have used prostitutes. (or they won't tell you) Some of the guys I hang out with do. I hang out with all kinds. Post-graduate professionals, athletes, criminals, business men, etc. I have worked with the supposed cream of our society. I have seen and known a healthy percentage of men from all walks of life use prostitutes at one time or another in life. Many of my friends know that I am very easy going and non-judgemental to them and they share everything with me. You have your path, I've had mine and lets leave it at that.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
AM744
Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:59 pm

Even if it was true and illegal, we're not talking about corruption, or any other misconduct that would actually hurt the citizens of New York. His family would be, but that's a private affair.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:21 pm

Just so you get an idea of how common this is here are a few links. It is adult, so I will only take you to the craigslist page.

Quoting Slider (Reply 193):
Slider From United States, joined Feb 2004, 4244 posts, RR: 25

here is your "non-prostitute" using Houston page. Just go under Services-Erotic Services. Looking for w4m

http://houston.craigslist.org/

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 191):
Newark777 From United States, joined Dec 2004, 8201 posts, RR: 27

Just go under Services-Erotic Services. Looking for w4m

http://newyork.craigslist.org/

Craigslist has thousands of posts a day for both Texas and New York/Jersey escorts.

This is just one of the many ways that men find prostitutes. You do the math on how many men have used them.

[Edited 2008-03-11 15:26:08]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:31 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 193):
That is why the ho's don't do anything for me at this stage in my life

I can obviously understand the youthful indiscretions a lot of us committed. But coming from a 48 year old...that is another matter.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 197):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 193):
That is why the ho's don't do anything for me at this stage in my life

I can obviously understand the youthful indiscretions a lot of us committed. But coming from a 48 year old...that is another matter.

But that is not a legal question, but one of personal morality.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Blackprojects
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:22 am

RE: NY Governor Spitzer Involved In Prostitution Ring

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:49 pm

I saw a BBC America report saying that the Governor had a Credit beside his name in the Leger of the Maddame for $400.00?!? A regular and Valued customer comes to mind.

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