Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:34 pm

Car Stolen

So I go for a date last night. It's bad. Oh well. Had many of those. Around 10 PM when I walk to retrieve my car after saying my goodbyes, there's no car. I look for it. I wonder if I parked it somewhere I forgot. I walked twice around the block. Then it dawns on me. My car just became the newest statistic on vehicular theft on the city. I feel, basically, violated and inundated with disbelief. And sad. It's a car my father bequeathed to me after he passed. He loved it. A Lincoln Town Car 1991, interiors and outside burgundy colors. I kept it in mint condition. A classic. Well. It's now 10:45. I call my brother on my cell (thank God for those trinkets) and 15 mins. later he comes to pick me up.

Bureaucracy

We go to the police. It's 11PM. They tell us that they are closed for car thefts. We need to come back tomorrow (today) from 9AM to 4PM. So today, it's 8:30AM and I'm there on the City Traffic Police building. Knowing Mexico's official love affair with paperwork, I bring every single document about the car and myself that I believe any half-witted bureaucrat might ask for. Turns out experience is a good prophet and I was not wrong. These are the documents they asked for:

My driver's license
An official ID from me (passport or voter's registration card)
Car Insurance
Car Registration
Original Car Purchasing Bill
Proof of domicile
Car tax receipt

With me so far? Ok. After I give 1 copy of each of the above documents and show the originals to the guy taking my statement, I'm told to wait. Twenty mins. later, I get handed a paper and told it's all done, but would I be so kind to go to the next investigative agency and file a new car theft report there. WTF? What do you mean the other agency? Well, yes. For some obscure reason, I have to file the same car theft report at the following agencies:

City Traffic Police
State investigative Agency
Agency for Vehicular theft
Federal Police

They do tell me in the first agency that for some money, they can "arrange" to have the documents I need for my insurance company issued this week. Aren't they all nice, upstanding, honest public servants?

Of course. Each of these agencies are at different points in the city, which is a huge city. In each of them, too, I have to show the same documents and their respective copies. I start feeling like I live in some third world backwater place...oh wait! I do!

I'll let you figure for yourself all my time lost, my gas spent driving around the city, queuing, copies made, stress, traffic. You get the picture. A day's work lost. Is it the same where you live?
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:42 pm

So where does the "Corruption" come into play?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
User avatar
Jetsgo
Posts: 2791
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:31 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:45 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
So where does the "Corruption" come into play?

Maybe this:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
They do tell me in the first agency that for some money, they can "arrange" to have the documents I need for my insurance company issued this week. Aren't they all nice, upstanding, honest public servants?

I don't know for sure though... but thats my guess.
_____________________________________________

Sorry to hear about your experience, hopefulyl it can all be resolved sooner rather then later. Most of all, lets hope it's still in one piece if found...
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
Maybe this:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
They do tell me in the first agency that for some money, they can "arrange" to have the documents I need for my insurance company issued this week. Aren't they all nice, upstanding, honest public servants?

Or "arragned" can me that you pay a typical government admin fee and your papers will be processed. For instance, ifyou are involved in a car accident in my city, you have to pay the police dept to get copies made of the police reports for insurance purposes. Same thing with most legal forms...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:57 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
So where does the "Corruption" come into play?



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
Maybe this:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
They do tell me in the first agency that for some money, they can "arrange" to have the documents I need for my insurance company issued this week. Aren't they all nice, upstanding, honest public servants?

Yes, that's it. The official docs. that I need for my insurance will take about 10 to 12 days. If I want them earlier, I can grease the palm of some officials. How early? Depends on how much I give them.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:00 pm



Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
Yes, that's it. The official docs. that I need for my insurance will take about 10 to 12 days. If I want them earlier, I can grease the palm of some officials. How early? Depends on how much I give them.

Something tells me that the standard time is 10-12 days but you can also pay an expidite fee. Just like most cities. Somehow I have a hard time thinking its a bribe. Wonder why
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:03 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
So where does the "Corruption" come into play?

Maybe this:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
They do tell me in the first agency that for some money, they can "arrange" to have the documents I need for my insurance company issued this week. Aren't they all nice, upstanding, honest public servants?

I don't know for sure though... but thats my guess.

Sure it's not just an "express fee", just like in the states, want something fast - pay for it. Express Mail versus Snail Mail. Passports too . . . want it quick - pay the extra fee.

EDIT:

Sorry about your car . . . that sucks.

[Edited 2008-03-11 14:04:06]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Sure it's not just an "express fee", just like in the states, want something fast - pay for it. Express Mail versus Snail Mail. Passports too . . . want it quick - pay the extra fee.

No. Believe me. I understand the concept of express fees, but that's not what this was. I actually think I was lucky in that I was not ask for money at other steps of the process.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Sorry about your car . . . that sucks.

Thanks. It does suck.
 
WrenchBender
Posts: 1662
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:24 pm



Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
No. Believe me. I understand the concept of express fees, but that's not what this was. I actually think I was lucky in that I was not ask for money at other steps of the process.

Corruption and Mexican Cops, nothing new there. I had 2 of my guys arrested for supposedly smoking pot in Puerta Vallarta during a port visit. The Cops offered to let them off for a "Fee", when they wouldn't play ball, they were handed over to us. We did the normal military routine, pee in a cup, statements etc. the test came back clean and they were exonerated. It seems to be just another source of income to shake down tourista's and visiting sailors.

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
AM744
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:38 pm



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Is it the same where you live?

Nope.

I had my car stolen back in 2006. Here's the process:
- Declare to the Ministerio Público and Policia Judicial in the delegation where the car was stolen. (1 hour)
- That's it. The next day Insurance Company agent (GNP in this particular case) went to my job to pick some papers, including declaration mentioned above. By 10AM the next day, the insurance process was already running.
- Police gave me an appointment to ratify my declaration some days later. They showed me a gallery of recently caught crooks in the area to see if I could identify anyone. (1 hour)
- A few days later Police called to ask for help with a "drawn portrait" of the criminals. I had to go to a police station.(1 hour)

The car turned up a few days before it was classified as "lost". Picked my recovered car at a big parking lot operated by a group of insurance companies where they deliver recovered cars. Signed some paperwork. Insurance company towed it to a dealership for repair as some pieces were missing.

All in all it was an unfortunate situation, but pretty seamless. Inefficient, yes, corrupt, no.

Downsides:
- Criminals were not caught.
- I was pressing for other charges: criminal association(?) (asociación delictuosa) as the crooks where a couple of youngsters and kidnapping, since me and my gf where taken inside the car for a while, only to be dropped at a remote spot in the city, after taking our money and credit cards of course. This charges carry a far heavier punishment. But I suspect Police agencies don't want to keep record of their inefficiency with loads of unsolved cases (specially when they KNOW they won't be investigating much). It was registered as a simple carjack.
 
AM744
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:51 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
- Declare to the Ministerio Público and Policia Judicial in the delegation where the car was stolen. (1 hour)

Those two were in the same building. I think in the DF, they always are.

I can totally see your problem. As per your narrative I see there is corruption involved in said "fees". It's an unfortunate and inadmissible situation. You should ask the names of those guys and report them to some higher instance. (I'm thinking in a Contraloría or something). I once had a corruption problem with the Energy Company (Luz y Fuerza del Centro) dealt with in this way.
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:08 am

 Sad Damn, really sorry to hear about your car. I don't understand how anyone could do that to another person. Sorry to hear, all the best, I'm hoping they find your car and it's okay.  crossfingers 

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:37 am



Quoting AM744 (Reply 10):
As per your narrative I see there is corruption involved in said "fees". It's an unfortunate and inadmissible situation. You should ask the names of those guys and report them to some higher instance. (I'm thinking in a Contraloría or something). I once had a corruption problem with the Energy Company (Luz y Fuerza del Centro) dealt with in this way.

I can see where you are coming from, and from a moral view point, you are right. I should ask the names of those responsible and report them. But, after spending my entire working day driving around the city, in a car that is not mine, from government office to government office, I had no intention of coming back to ask the names of the guy who asked the money. I think I did enough from a moral sense by not giving them any money when offered the option.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26639
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:41 am



Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 8):

Corruption and Mexican Cops, nothing new there.

While their practices are deplorable, you can kind of understand it given how severely underpaid they are.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:07 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Sure it's not just an "express fee", just like in the states, want something fast - pay for it. Express Mail versus Snail Mail. Passports too . . . want it quick - pay the extra fee.

Difference is that regular express fees go into the city / county / state budget, while those "fees" demanded by the civil servants go directly into their own pockets.
I have heard about similar tricks in the Philippines and Sierra Leone (e.g. to get a landline telephone connection in Sierra Leone, you'll have to bribe the person taking the application and the guy connecting it, else you'll wait for months).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ABQ747
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:22 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:29 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
While their practices are deplorable, you can kind of understand it given how severely underpaid they are.

There is no excuse for criminal activity and dishonest practices.

[Edited 2008-03-11 23:30:44]
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:45 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
While their practices are deplorable, you can kind of understand it given how severely underpaid they are.

So that makes bribery ok?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:56 pm

You pay a fee here for police reports e.g. accident or theft. I paid Eur 10 when our Ford disappeared, so, yeh, it's the icing on the cake as a "victim". As vehicle the car was over 8 yrs old it's only insurable 3rd party.

Fortunately the Eur 10 was a good investment; they found it a couple of days later, minus a few parts. I hope AR385 has the same luck.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23193
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:44 pm

I just went through the same thing with Multnomah County. I allegedly ran a red light and the photo radar caught it. It is a car that I had, but I can not tell if I was driving. This took place in 2006. Last year, I went to renew my licence. I was told I had an outstanding ticket for running a red light. I was issued the ticked from photo radar. I was told by Department of Motor Vehicles that I needed to make a payment on this before I could renew my licence and I could file a grievance after the fine of $242 was paid. The fine was paid last month. I had other things like food, shelter, medical care, etc to pay for. I call the county courthouse and was told I have one year to pay off the fine before I could file a grievance. Since it had been over one year, I can not do anything.

I love it when government changes the rules.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jetsgo
Posts: 2791
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:31 am

RE: Rant: Car Stolen; Bureaucracy; Corruption

Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:57 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

While their practices are deplorable, you can kind of understand it given how severely underpaid they are.

Just like we are to understand gays being executed in Iran, right?
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aaron747, c933103, Kent350787 and 119 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos