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Pope
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:53 pm

This thread itself is an indication of the financial illiteracy of many American including the original thread starter.

As a strong fiscal conservative I have absolutely no problem with these institutions failing. Their only purpose is to artificially reduce the cost of capital in the mortgage market as a means of stimulating home ownership by what Falcon84 terms "the average American".

Fannie Mae was set up by a Democratic president (FDR) as part of his runaway social programs. When Fannie became a monopoly a DEMOCRATICLY CONTROLLED CONGRESS formed Freddie Mac to solve the problem their liberal god had created. Have we not learned that government is not the solution.

Markets function best when left to their own devices. If people can't pay market rates of interest for their money, then they shouldn't borrow.

But if these institutions fail, the cost of borrowing for a first home mortgage will go up from their current 6.5% or so average to above their long term historical average of 9.3%. Therefore, while Falcon84 may be trying to spin this as a move that hurts the average American, I can't think of anything that could hurt them more than implementing exactly what he is advocating.

Now Falcon84 talking about hypocrisy is most amusing.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 50):
Markets function best when left to their own devices. If people can't pay market rates of interest for their money, then they shouldn't borrow.

 checkmark 

Quoting Pope (Reply 50):
As a strong fiscal conservative I have absolutely no problem with these institutions failing. Their only purpose is to artificially reduce the cost of capital in the mortgage market as a means of stimulating home ownership by what Falcon84 terms "the average American".

Couldn't possibly agree more.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:27 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 50):
Fannie Mae was set up by a Democratic president (FDR) as part of his runaway social programs.

Things like TVA, road and bridge building, and social security and other such programs during the depression. Yeah, we get it. It was horrible to think a president could look out for the well being of the citizens of this country. Simply awful. /sarcasm

What I don't get is: If banks are left to their own devices, we will go back to the "olden days" when only the upper middle class and above could dream of home ownership. We would go back to the says of shantytowns and mud huts on the plains, if the current crop of Republicans had their way. There does need to be a way for the average Joe to buy a home. If the current crop of Republicans were so fixated on the average citizen of the United States, they would figure out a way to help them instead of helping the corporations.

Another point I think is interesting:

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
For far too long the USA has consumed the world's energy, borrowed heavily, run up a virtually unpayably foreign debt, lived on credit cards or "home equity" and believed that the debt would never be called.

Acutally, under Clinton (and Republican controlled Congress), the "debt clock" actually started to go down. We started on the road to not owing anyone anything. Yes, taxes were up, but so was personal spending, and jobs. Now, most of the debt is held by China, Saudi Arabia, and Japan and is used for military, pet projects, and "No Child Left Behind" (aka teach kids to take tests). How is that helping? Where was the "no pork spending" camp from 2000-2006? Oh, that's right... we were told if we do not support the military, we are unpatriotic. But, it's okay to close VA hospitals and not give any assistance to returning soldiers too wounded to return to combat and it's okay to threaten to veto an updated GI bill.....
 
PPVRA
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:15 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 48):
I'm waiting for someone to start a thread saying, "should I invest in Zimbabwean notes in case their currency strengthens?" biggrin

There's apparently a shortage of supply of paper, so who knows! Though the article says instead if three printing shifts they are down to "only" one shift, so printing continues. . .

Quoting Baroque (Reply 49):
otherwise known as the Pacific Peso rushes towards parity with the USD!!

Pacific Peso approaching the U.S. Peso?  Wink
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:34 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):

Acutally, under Clinton (and Republican controlled Congress), the "debt clock" actually started to go down.

 redflag  It only slowed down under Clinton towards the end of his term. It hasn't gone down since 1961....
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
What I don't get is: If banks are left to their own devices, we will go back to the "olden days" when only the upper middle class and above could dream of home ownership.

The one advocating that the Administration not get involved was Falcon84 the original poster to this thread.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
No Child Left Behind"

Wasn't Ted Kennedy the principle author of that bill? So if the administration doesn't support the bill they're against children. If they do support it, then its their failed bill.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Where was the "no pork spending" camp from 2000-2006?

So I take it you are supporting John McCain because he's the only candidate who has never requested an earmark. It's amazing how much pork is generated by BHO.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
What I don't get is: If banks are left to their own devices, we will go back to the "olden days" when only the upper middle class and above could dream of home ownership. We would go back to the says of shantytowns and mud huts on the plains, if the current crop of Republicans had their way. There does need to be a way for the average Joe to buy a home. If the current crop of Republicans were so fixated on the average citizen of the United States, they would figure out a way to help them instead of helping the corporations.

What I don't get is: are you saying any and all Americans who aren't rich have some kind of birthright that involves homeownership? That's just nuts. If the market corrects itself to the level that would be appropriate, middle class Americans will be able to become homeowners the way they did before all this madness started - pooling money together and income-earning parents joining income-earning children under one roof. That would do a hell of a lot for the family unit in most parts and I don't have a problem with it.
 
baroque
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:46 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 53):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 49):
otherwise known as the Pacific Peso rushes towards parity with the USD!!

Pacific Peso approaching the U.S. Peso?

That is another way of putting it PPVRA!  wink 

As for the new musical from NY called "The Banking follies", I wonder what is in the next act, and just how many acts there are to come? It is like waiting for the boots from a centipede to drop.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24452
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 55):
Wasn't Ted Kennedy the principle author of that bill? So if the administration doesn't support the bill they're against children. If they do support it, then its their failed bill.

How many times did we have to hear Bush and his people talk about how wonderful "No Child Left Behind" was? Bush and his people were so gung-ho on "No Child Left Behind" like it was his own child.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 54):
It only slowed down under Clinton towards the end of his term. It hasn't gone down since 1961....

But, because of bi-partisan talks, things started going well. Now, there is the chance for bi-partisan talks and all we hear is "It's their fault!"

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 56):
pooling money together and income-earning parents joining income-earning children under one roof. That would do a hell of a lot for the family unit in most parts and I don't have a problem with it.

Let's look at my parents and grandparents: Both my parents worked and raised three kids. They were always trying to save money in case something happened. They had to pay for utilities, food, car (we had one until I was 18), and, if any of us needed to go to the hospital. We took a few vacations on the cheap and we never owned a home. We could not afford it even though both my parents worked in health care.

My fathers grandparents immigrated from Europe. They were given a small shack on the edge of town in eastern Oregon and all 11 kids helped farm. My mothers father worked for the railroad and could barely afford to buy his home and provide for his family (5 kids). When the children were able to earn an income, they did. They pooled their money to buy an old used TV in the 1960s. No cell phones, no computers, no iPod. Three phonographs and a couple of transistor radios. My fathers family didn't bother with the TV, since there were no stations, and had a transistor that could only pick up stations clearly at night. Both my grandmothers canned food for the winter and patched together clothes because they had to. It all sounds so cozy, dosen't it? No. I have lived it. I would love to be able to own a home here and now.

Do you honestly believe everyone wants to work just one job to barely get by in order to own a home? I am not saying every last one of us is entitled to a home. We should all try to pay. What I am saying is: no one should be penalized because they are trying to provide for their family. A lot of people found a way to get their families out of the crappy run down apartment in the projects and into something they could call their own. Now, it is being taken away and replaced with a cardboard box. Do you think the families trying to make something better for themselves should be thrown to the wolves?
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:08 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Why play different ball in this case?

Because though these are shareholder-owned corporations, they are a bit of a different animal in that their reason for being was/is to protect mortgage funds in times of crisis. Unlike banks, who have primarily a profit motive.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
They are federally backed corporations

Freddie Mac receives no federal funds.
 
Pope
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RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 58):
How many times did we have to hear Bush and his people talk about how wonderful "No Child Left Behind" was? Bush and his people were so gung-ho on "No Child Left Behind" like it was his own child.

Was the principle author of the bill Ted Kennedy or not? If the administration works with Democrats they're damned. If they don't they're obstructionist.

You can't have it both ways.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17798
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Bush Wants To Bail Out Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae

Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:48 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 58):
What I am saying is: no one should be penalized because they are trying to provide for their family.

I'm not sure what this means exactly...can you elaborate?

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