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Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:10 pm

While I much prefer Pelosi being in charge to Dennis Hastert, this sort of talk doesn't help anything, and doesn't change the fact that Pelosi has done little to change the way that Congress runs, other than getting rid of the automatic rubberstamp that was in place under the GOP-run Congress (which is not insignificant).

Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
but she says this when congresses approval rating is far less than his.

That would be the case even if the GOP controlled Congress. Everyone loves their own representatives but hates the larger body. Which is a pretty good sign that our sense of being one nation is not very strong at the moment.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
Government records prove that fewer DoD personnel died on his watch than on Clinton's despite the war.

Any place where one can get these records? I have a hard time believing that, and would like to see where Clinton lost enough people to keep up with Iraq and Afghanistan.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
It might be too soon to say but perhaps the resistance the Iraq war seems to have stirred up just means that we are dealing with those terrorists in Iraq instead of New York - just like they said all along.

I would doubt it. The terrorists in Iraq were largely a creation of the Iraq war, and wouldn't have the capability to pull off a major attack in the US.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
Personally I don't believe one person suddenly decided to hate the US just because we defiled Iraq with our unclean presence.

Nor do I. But there was certainly hatred there before we went in (Saddam did plenty to help it along), and us being conveniently located in the neighborhood in vast numbers made it easy for them to attack us that it actually made sense to them instead of just sitting and being angry.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 16):
I'd actually like someone to post a message with anything positive that Bush and his administration have actually done. ??? I can't actually think of anything?

Under the Bush administration, aid to Africa was at record levels. It's still not nearly enough, but it's more than any other president sent, and Bush deserves some credit for that.

-Mir
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Actually, what he said is absolutely the truth.

No. It is not only a lie, it is a blatant in-your-face obvious lie. A person who could believe it true could not possibly have the intelligence to operate a keyboard so that leaves only the possibility that a person who claimed it to be true wanted to deceive.

Here is the "50 years of strong, diplomatic, and honourable work to make the world a better place" he undid:

1968

June 5 - U.S. presidential candidate Robert Kennedy murdered by Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan, in Los Angeles, which causes further terrorist attacks, as Arab terrorist groups demanded his release.

1969

Feb. 18 - Boeing 707 attacked at Zurich, Switzerland, killing the pilot and 3 passengers.

Aug. 29 - TWA 707 hijacked from Rome to Damascus, released with only wounded.

Nov. 27- EL AL office in Athens, Greece attacked. Innocent bystanders killed.

1970

Feb. 21 - Swiss airliner blown up over Switzerland, killing all 47 people on board.

Feb. 23 - PLO terrorists open fire on a busload of Christian pilgrims killing 1 and wounding 2 Americans.

April 21- Bomb explodes aboard a Philippines airliner. All 36 aboard are killed.

Sept. 6 - “Skyjack Sunday” in Jordan. 3 planes (TWA, Swissair, Pan Am) en route to the U.S. hijacked, 400+ hostages, planes blown up in Jordan, Governments agreed to PFLP’s demands, released terrorists from jails and hostages released.

Sept. 14 - The PFLP hijacked TWA flight to Ammon, 4 Americans injured.

1971
Nov. 28 - Jordanian prime minister Tal killed by terrorists at the Sheraton Hotel in Cairo, Egypt.

Dec. - Jordanian ambassador to London, England is shot by hit squad.

1972

Jan. 26 - Bomb explodes on a Yugoslav plane killing all but one passenger.

May 30 - Ben Gurion Airport, Israel attack killed 26, and wounded 78 U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico.

Sept. 5 - Palestinian terrorists seize 11 athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, Germany, 9 hostages and 5 terrorists killed, plus David Berger from Cleveland.

1973

March 2 - Khartoum, Sudan. Cleo Noel, Jr., U.S. ambassador, and George C. Moore, U.S. diplomat, were held hostage and then killed by terrorists at the U.S. Embassy.

Aug. 5 - Suicide squad attacks Athens airport, Greece, killing 3 civilians and injuring 55.

Dec. 17 - Bomb explodes at Pan Am office at Rome, Italy killing 32 and injuring 50+. The terrorists take 7 Italian policemen hostage and hijack an aircraft to Athens, Greece, killing one of them.

1974

March 1 - Diplomats taken hostage from Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, 2 that are killed are Americans.

April 11 - Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building killing 18 people, 9 were children.

Sept. 8 - Athens, Greece. TWA Flight 841 exploded from bomb in cargo hold, all 88 passengers killed, including 32-year-old Steven Lowe, an American citizen.

Nov. 23 - British DC-10 hijacked at Dubai, UAE, flown to Tunisia where a German passenger was killed.

1975

Jan. 19 - Arab terrorists attack Orly airport, Paris, France, seizing 10 hostages from a bathroom. French provided the terrorists with a plane to fly them to safety in Baghdad, Iraq.

Sept. 30 - Hungarian airplane explodes killing all 64 persons on board.

Dec. 21 - Carlos “The Jackal” holds 11 oil ministers and 59 civilians hostage during the OPEC meeting in Vienna, Austria. Flew to Algeria, got $300,000,000 in ransom money, Carlos and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists escape.

1976

Jan. 1 - 82 innocent travelers are killed aboard a Lebanese plane.

June 27 - Air France airliner hijacked, forced to fly to Uganda. Some 258 passengers and crew are held hostage. 3 passengers killed. July 4th, Israeli commandos rescue the remaining hostages.

Aug. 11 - Terrorists attack Istanbul airport, Turkey, killing 4 civilians (1 from U.S.) and injuring 20.

Dec. 4 - Terrorists occupied the Indonesian Embassy in The Hague, Netherlands, 1 official killed.

Dec. 14 - Passenger train hijacked and passengers were kept hostage, 3 were killed.

1977

Jan. 1 - F.E. Melov U.S. ambassador to Lebanon, and Robert O.Waring, the U.S. economic counselor, kidnapped and later killed in Beirut.

Oct. 13 - Palestinian terrorists hijack a Lufthansa Flight 181 Boeing 737 and order it to fly around a number of Middle East destinations for four days, pilot is killed by the terrorists, 90 hostages rescued.

1978

March 11 - Gail Rubin, niece of U.S. Senator Ribicoff, among 38 people shot to death by terrorists on a beach near Tel Aviv.

June 2 - A bomb kills 2 people at the CHOGM meeting in Sydney Australia.

1979

July 29 - Terrorist bombs two railway stations in Madrid, kills 7.

Nov. 4 - Terrorists seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. 13 freed, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981 - 444 days - at the inauguration of President Ronald Reagan.

1980

April 30 - Terrorists took over the Iranian Embassy in London, holding 26 hostages, 2 of whom died on May 5th after being tortured. Much of the embassy was destroyed by fire.

1981
April 19 - 13 people killed, 177 injured in a terrorist attack in Davao Philippines.

May 13 - Pope John Paul II seriously wounded in assassination attempt in Rome, Italy, by terrorist Mehmet Ali Agca.

Oct. 6 - Egyptian President Anwar Sadat machine gunned dead by Islamic Jihad in Cairo for working for peace. 7 others killed, 28 wounded. The assassins are later executed.

1982

Beginning of the 8 years of terrorism in Lebanon.

July 19 - David Dodge, President of the American University in Beirut kidnapped, spends one year in captivity.

Aug. 19 - Two American citizens, Anne Van Zanten and Grace Cutler, were killed along with 6 others when the PLO bombed a Kosher restaurant in Paris, France.

Sept. 14 - Lebanon’s President Gemayel and 26 others assassinated by a massive car bomb in Beirut.

1983

Mar. 16 - 5 Marines wounded in hand grenade attack on Beirut International Airport.

April 18 - CIA’s Middle East Director, and 83 others are killed, 120 injured in truck bomb on the US Embassy in Lebanon.

Sept. 29 - Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, explodes killing all 166 aboard.

Oct. 23 - Simultaneous suicide truck bombs in Lebanon: 1st crashed into lobby of US Marine Corps Headquarters, 241 Marines dead, 82 seriously injured - and 2nd was French compounds killing 58 paratroopers.

Dec. 12 - US Embassy in Kuwait targeted to destroy the building with a truck bomb, attack foiled by guards and the device killed 5 people and injured 80.

1984

Jan. 18 - Malcolm Kerr, President of the American University of Beirut, was killed by two Hizballah gunmen.

Mar. 8 - Rev. Weir and wife kidnapped in Lebanon and held for 16 months.

Mar. 9 - Car bomb kills 80 (22 Americans) and wounds more than 200 civilians when it drove past the checkpoint at the U.S. Embassy in Awkar.

Mar. 16 - Hizballah kidnapped, tortured and killed William Buckley, an officer at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut.

Apr. 12 - Hizballah bombed restaurant adjacent to US Air Force base in Torregon Spain, 18 servicemen killed and 83 Americans wounded.

Sept. 20- US embassy in the Beirut is bombed - 2 servicemen and 23 employees are killed, 21 Americans injured including the U.S. and British Ambassadors. 50+ Lebanese were injured.

Dec. 4 - Terrorists hijacked Kuwait Airlines Flight 221 and demanded the release from Kuwaiti jails of some members, serving sentences for attacks on French and American targets. 2 Americans murdered.

1985

March 16 - US journalist Terry Anderson kidnapped in Lebanon, finally released in Dec. 1991 - 6 years later.

April 5 - Bomb explodes outside Hezbollah headquarters in Beirut killing 80 people.

April 12 - Bombing of U.S. soldier’s favorite restaurant in Madrid, killing 18 and injuring 82.

June 14 - TWA Boeing 727 Flight 847 hijacked en route to Rome, 8 crew and 145 passengers were held for 17 days, U.S. Navy diver was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the hostages were released after the US pressured to release 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.

Sept. 30 - Four Soviet diplomats kidnapped in Lebanon, 1 killed but other three released unharmed after a relative of the terrorist leader’s was kidnapped and killed by the Soviet KGB.

Oct. 7 - Terrorists seize the Italian cruise liner, Achille Lauro, during a cruise in the Mediterranean, taking more than 700 people hostage for 3 days. Disabled U.S. citizen, Leon Klinghoffer, was murdered in front of other hostages by throwing him in the ocean, before the Egyptian Government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.

Nov. 23 - 98 passengers and crew of an Egyptair Flight 648 are held hostage by Palestinian terrorists in Malta. 5 passengers shot, 2 died, later 57 additional passengers killed when the terrorists set off explosives in the aircraft.

Dec. 27 - Suicide grenade and gun attacks in passenger terminals at Rome and Vienna, Italy airports results in 16 people being killed plus 5 Americans and more than 100 civilians injured.

1986

March 30-April 2nd - A bomb exploded on a TWA flight 840 from Rome as it approached Athens airport. The attack killed 4 U.S. citizens who were sucked through a hole made by the blast, 1 infant, and 9 injured, although the plane safely landed.

April 6 - An explosion at the “La Belle” nightclub in Berlin, U.S. soldiers’ hang-out, was bombed, killing 3 and injuring 230 people, including 79 U.S. soldiers.

Sept. 5 - Pan Am Boeing 747 Flight 73 en route to Frankfurt and on to New York hijacked by Palestinian terrorists, with 379 passengers, including 89 Americans, 22 hostages killed, 127 wounded.

Sept. 9 - Hezballah kidnapped Frank Reed, President of American University in Beirut, and held for 44 months, and Joseph Cicippio, and Edward Tracy who were each held for 5 years.

Sept. 17 - A 10-month series of terrorist bomb attacks in France begins. One bomb in Paris kills 5 and injures 52.

1987

A car bomb exploded outside the back gate of the U.S. Embassy in Rome and rockets were fired at the compound from across the street. One passerby was injured in the attacks.

1988

Feb. 5 - US Marine Corps Lt. Colonel Higgens, Chief of the U.N. Truce Force kidnapped and murdered by Hezbollah.

March 16 - 4000+ Kurdish civilian bodies found after Saddam Hussein ordered nerve gas attack (weapon of mass destruction) in northern Iraq, after they revolted against his rule from Baghdad. 1.5 million relocated, 200,000 disappeared.

April 5 - 122 held hostage after a Kuwaiti Boeing 747 was hijacked and diverted to Iran, then Cyprus. Kuwait refused requests by hijackers to release 17 convicted terrorists. After 15 days the hijackers were granted asylum in Algeria and released their hostages.

June 26 - US Naval Attache killed in Athens, Greece.

Dec. 21 - Pan Am Flight 103 - Boeing 747 from London to New York, blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb. All 259 passengers and 11 on the ground were killed, including 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel.

1989

June 12 - A bomb exploded aboard an unoccupied boat used by U.S. consular staff.

Sept. 19 - 171 passengers killed when French UTA flight 772 explodes in mid-air over Niger.

October 11 - Izmir, Turkey. A bomb went off outside a U.S. military PX.

1990

Feb. - Attack of tour bus in Egypt killing 11.

1991
Feb. 7 - Incirlik Air Base, Turkey, U.S. civilian contractor shot as he was getting into his car.

Oct. 28 - Ankara, Turkey. Victor Marwick, an American soldier serving at the Turkish-American base, Tuslog, was killed and his wife wounded in a car bomb attack.

Oct. 28 - Two car bombings killed a U.S. Air Force Sergeant and severely wounded an Egyptian diplomat in Istanbul.

Nov. 8 - Bomb destroyed part of the American University in Beirut, killing 1 and wounding 12.

1992

March 17 - Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina, destroyed by bomb killing 29, injuring 60.

Hotel in Yemen bombed and U.S. servicemen killed, Operation Restore Hope.

1993

Jan. 25, Virginia, U.S.A. A Pakistani terrorist opened fire with AK-47 on CIA employees standing outside the building. Two agents, Frank Darling and Bennett Lansing, were killed and 3 others wounded.

Feb. 26 - World Trade Center in New York badly damaged by a massive bomb by Islamic terrorists. The van bomb was planted in an underground garage and left 6 people dead and 1042 injured and almost � billion dollars in damage.

Feb. 26 - A bomb exploded inside a cafe in downtown Cairo killing 3, 18 wounded, 2 U.S. citizens.

July 5 - In 8 separate incidents, 19 Western tourists traveling in southeastern Turkey were kidnapped, including U.S. citizen Starger, after weeks in captivity, they were released.

Oct - Killing of U. S. soldiers in Somalia.

1994

July 18 - 86 civilians killed and 300 wounded in bomb attack on Jewish social centre in Buneos Aires, Argentina.

July 26 - Israeli Embassy in London is car-bombed, wounding 20.

Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked to crash the plane in Paris but didn’t succeed.
A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman.

1995

Jan. 22 - Islamic Jihad militants blow themselves up amid a group of soldiers near Netanya, killing 21. Operation Bojinka is discovered on a laptop in a Manila, Philippines apartment, in which Osama bin Laden was planning to blow up 12 planes as they flew to the U.S., plus kill the Pope.

March 8 - Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan.

April 9 - Islamic Jihad suicide bomber attacks military convoy in Gaza, killing 7 soldiers and an American tourist.

May 5 - Five foreign oil workers murdered by Islamic GIA terrorists in Algeria.

June 26 - Assassination attempt made against Egyptian President Honsi Mubarak by Islamic radicals who ambushed his motorcade.

July 4 - Six tourists, including two U.S. citizens taken hostage in Kashmir, India. Terrorists demanded the release of Muslim militants held in Indian prisons. On Aug. 13 the decapitated body of the Norwegian hostage was found with a note stating that the other hostages also would be killed if the group’s demands were not met. They were not and all other hostages were killed in 1996 by the terrorists.

July 25 - Islamic terrorists explode bomb in metro station in Paris, France, killing 7 people and injuring 84.

Nov. 13 - Car bomb exploded at US Army Office of the Program Manager for Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization, in Saudi Arabia, killing seven, five of them U.S. citizens, and wounding nearly a hundred.

Nov. 19 - Islamic radicals plant bomb in Egyptian embassy in Pakistan killing 17.

Dec. 11 - 15 concurrent car bombings in Algiers kill 15 civilians and over 200 injured.

1996

Feb. 11 - Terrorists explode car bomb in Algiers killing 17. The following month, 2 more killed in another bomb and 10 are killed in a train ambush in western Algeria.

Feb. 25 - A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including 3 U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another two U.S. citizens.

April 19 - Eighteen Greek tourists were gunned down near the historic Pyramids in Egypt by Islamic terrorists aiming to destroy the country’s tourist industry.

May - Osama bin Laden unites the Islamic Fundamentalists worldwide in their Jihad against Jews and Western Gentiles, such as al-Qaeda, Palestinian Authority, Hezbollah, Hamas, Mujahideen, using the Taliban’s organization to help fund the operations.

June 25 - Terrorists explode a truck bomb next to a USAF Khobar Towers housing facility at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and 515 injured including 240 U.S. personnel.

Islamic terrorists attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 71 people, most of them vacationers.

Aug. 26 - Sudan Airways A310 Airbus airliner hijacked en route to Jordan and diverted to England. British authorities negotiate with hijackers who release all the 13 crew and 180 passengers unharmed.

Dec. 3 - A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train, killing four and injuring 86 persons, including a U.S. citizen.

A terrorist opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the US, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself.

Dec. 23 - A car bomb in the Algerian capital, Algiers, kills three and injures 70 people in cafe near the port. Again a week later, a car bomb kills 28 people and injures 35 people. 3rd car bomb in the past two weeks, killing additional 13 people and injuring more than 250.

1997

Jan. 2 - Major cities worldwide and U.S. get letter bombs with Egyptian postmarks at newspaper bureaus in DC, New York, London, Riyadh, S.A., and Leavenworth, KN. Experts defused all but the 1 in London, injuring 2.

Jan. 7 to 21st - Islamic terrorist rampage during these 14 days with car bombs and beheadings in Algiers, total of 238 dead, 139 wounded.

Feb. 23 - Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State building in New York, killing 1 and wounding over a dozen visitors before turning the gun on himself.

March 7 - Two killed in bus bomb attack in Beijing, China.

April - Terrorists behead innocent civilians this whole month with a total of 272 murdered and over 100 injured. Knives, axes and chainsaws were used and many of the bodies were burned while still alive.

Sept. 18- 9 German tourists killed when Muslims fire bombed bus in Cairo, Egypt.

Nov. 12 - 2 Terrorists shot to death 4 U.S. auditors of a Texas petroleum company and their driver at a Sheraton Hotel in Karachi, Pakistan.

Nov. 17 - 58 western tourists killed and 30 injured in gun attack at historic monuments in southern Egypt. 6 of the Islamic terrorists are killed in shoot out with police.

1998

Jan. 15 - U.S. Embassy bombing in Peru.

Feb. 23 (Published) - A Statement signed by many Islamic Jihad Leaders from most Muslim countries, first by Sheikh Osamah Bin-Ladin: “…In compliance with God’s order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies–civilians and military–is an individual duty for every Muslim who can, in any country in which it is possible… We — with Allah’s help — call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded, to comply with Allah’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. Unless you go forth, Allah will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.”

Aug. 7 - Simultaneous bombs in US Embassies in Kenya, and Tanzania, heavily damaged by massive attacks. In the Nairobi attack 292 people were killed, including 12 Americans, and 5,000 injured. 10 people were killed and 86 injured in Tanzania incident for a total of 302 dead, 5086 injured within an hour.

Aug. 25 - 3 people killed and 25 injured in bomb attack on Planet Hollywood restaurant in Cape Town, South Africa.

Dec. 28 - 16 Western tourists kidnapped, 12 Britons, 2 U.S. citizens, and 2 Australians on the main road to Aden, Yemen. Four victims were killed during a rescue attempt the next day.

1999

Aug. 31 to Sept. 22nd - Russian apartment bombings kill almost 300 and injured 100.

Oct. 31 - EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed off the U.S. coast of Massachusetts, killing all 217 people on board, including 100 Americans.

Nov. 12 - Six rockets were fired at the U.S. and U.N. offices in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Dec. - Millennium terror plots foiled as customs agents arrest a man smuggling in explosives. Plan to attack Los Angeles airport and other sites intercepted by CIA. Also Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US tourists in Jordan, pick up 28 suspects.

Indian Airlines Flight 814, en route to Delhi, India is hijacked, 1 passenger is killed. After negotiations with the Taliban, the hostages are released.


Still nostalgic for the pre-Bush "peace in our time"?
Oh, I've saved you the trouble and bolded the events that happened on Clinton's watch.

So I ask you; what could Bush have possibly done to make it seem honorable to you to lie about all the above events, to deny the deaths, the carnage because they are less important than placing a false stain upon a President who actually does have real stains on his reputation. Justify that for us.
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:31 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
I'm going to love how grief-stricken you'll be the next 4 to 8 years while watching President Obama.

What make you think I'm voting for anyone other than Obama?
Stop thinking in bumper-sticker clichés man. You'll never be able to comprehend anything more complex than a bumper sticker that way.

You act like I'm a cardboard cutout Republican just because I don't drink the really stupid left wing Kool Aid. I don't drink if from either side. This guy waxes all rhapsodic about how the lions lay down with the lambs until mean old Dubya came along and it is just juvenile, naive foolishness.
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:52 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 50):
The terrorists in Iraq were largely a creation of the Iraq war,

See this is the kind of statement that just gets thrown around without anyone ever really examining it.

Where is your data?
Where are your interviews with the Iraq insurgents?

How can you possibly claim to know what motivates these people. Maybe some of them did join up for just the reason you state, but YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW THAT. I mean here's this guy, living peacefully and tolerantly in Yemen or Saudi Arabia and he sees on local television that American troops are in Iraq and he does what? How does he decide that it is a bad thing to have Americans there? What makes him think it isn't the very salvation of Islam to have American troops in Iraq? Who told him otherwise?

Think about these things a bit before you parrot them.

Or are you stating, as your opinion, that the ONE AND ONLY possible correct course of action regarding American troops in a Muslim country is to KILL as many as you can.

Because if that is what you are saying then there is not much point in continuing this discussion.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
I can vote for Democrats who will do nothing, or Republicans who can harm the country even more.

I dont know if I agree with that. When times are hard and you have a Dem that "will do nothing", that is just as harmful as the Rep who trys to do something but doesnt work out. So, your fine with your tax dollars going to someone who just sits in nice jet, or eats at fancy resturants, lives the high live, and his JOB is second on the priority list?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 48):
Excellent post!

Thank you.

Quoting Mir (Reply 50):
That would be the case even if the GOP controlled Congress. Everyone loves their own representatives but hates the larger body. Which is a pretty good sign that our sense of being one nation is not very strong at the moment.

This is so true! When it comes time to vote, everyone says that Congress needs to change but "my representitive is the only one doing a great job" so they vote them back in. It is always everyone elses representitive that needs to change. That is how America works. Its always everyone elses fault but me and the person I voted for.
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:59 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 50):
Any place where one can get these records?

I'm searching for it right now. I'm pretty sure it was a 'dot gov' website and it was 'death while on active duty' so it includes combat and non-combat deaths. I had a hard time believing it too, it is counterintuitive. If I run across it, I'll post. Of course the government does keeps such stats. I am just plowing through blind lead after blind lead to get back there.
 
sv7887
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 53):
SlamClick



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 53):
How can you possibly claim to know what motivates these people. Maybe some of them did join up for just the reason you state, but YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW THAT. I mean here's this guy, living peacefully and tolerantly in Yemen or Saudi Arabia and he sees on local television that American troops are in Iraq and he does what? How does he decide that it is a bad thing to have Americans there? What makes him think it isn't the very salvation of Islam to have American troops in Iraq? Who told him otherwise?

I think it all started when Paul Bremer dismissed the entire Iraqi Army and Baathist bureaucrats. Naturally those people who were displaced were pissed and unemployed..It opened up Al Zarqwari to start his off-shoot of Al Qaeda in Iraq Sending a downsized American army to guard only the oil infrastructure set a very bad precedent in the eyes of the Iraqi people

The reasons people join these groups are strange...Look at the homegrown Terrorists who blew themselves up in England..They were natural born British citizens, educated, and yet they wanted to blow themselves up..Then recall the Brain Surgeon who wanted to blow up MAN..

I am not sure there is any clear logic...People like to think it's education, but if that's the case how does it explain what happened in the UK?
 
itsjustme
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
Allowed armed airline pilots

And this has done what to increase airline safety? If anything, it's had the opposite results:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/25/national/main3965159.shtml

Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
but she says this when congresses approval rating is far less than his. Such stupidity!!

What's it say about a president when his approval ratings are used as the bar when discussing others?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 30):
They didn't have the balls to go against a popular President and now are bitching and moaning about it...

Unfortunately, they still don't have the balls (uh, literally). I remember seeing Speaker Pelosi standing at the podium and flexing her arm saying, "We have the power". Yet, she and her band of windbags have done nothing to turn the direction of my country around.
 
AirCop
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:33 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 24):
Here's a simple one: Not a single Terrorist Attack against the US since 9/11

This was taken from the State Department Travel Advisory " Worldwide Caution" dated 1-17-08..

The September 2006 attack on the U.S. embassy in Syria and the March 2006 bombing near the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan illustrate the continuing desire of extremists to strike American targets.

Now add the July, 9 2008 attack in front of a US Consulate in Turkey, I would say that some terrorist groups are still striking against the United States.
 
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yowza
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:35 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
Ironic because he is something she will never in a thousand years get to be - President of the United States.

I would suggest you look up the meaning of irony. Beyond that, how does becoming the president of the US make one any less of a failure. There are billions of people who are not even allowed to run for the US presidency are you just going to write them off too?

YOWza
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 59):
I would suggest you look up the meaning of irony.

I would suggest that you attack my political views (if you can discern them) and not my use of the English language. You are clearly unarmed in such a conflict.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 59):
Beyond that, how does becoming the president of the US make one any less of a failure.

Well, in view of the fact that more try and fail than try and succeed, I think the answer is obvious. When people spend whole years of their lives and raise millions of dollars, even of their own money to attain a job that is going to pay them only $1.6 million for four years, we could probably say it is a prize to be desired. I think it is fair to say that probably millions of people have daydreamed about being President of the United States and in all of history only 43 have achieved it. So, yes, it does make one less of a failure.
So does a diploma from Yale.
So does being an officer in the United States Air Force
So does being a fighter pilot. Lots of wannabes, few of the real thing.
That is the nature of fail vs. win you see. Actual personal achievement. If everybody gets a trophy then trophies are junk.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 59):
There are billions of people who are not even allowed to run for the US presidency are you just going to write them off too?

Nancy Pelosi is most assuredly NOT one of those billions. She is a POLITICIAN from a background of privilege and of government service. She is precisely the sort of person who IS eligible and who DOES want to be President. And she is not going to, ever, so, yes, she is, by her own standards, a loser.

And if you don't understand why that makes the situation ironic it is you who does not understand the meaning of the word and that brings us right back to my first paragraph.

I once heard a guy claim "I wouldn't have a Rolls-Royce. They're crap!" Now I'm not here to praise the RR, but this guy was driving a rusted out Ford Pinto. That is ironic too, and somehow reminds me of Ms. Pelosi.
 
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seb146
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:01 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 43):
All of these Dems. bashing Bush on here too and even Rep. who are bashing him and Congress need to look at themselves and who THEY voted for. Your "Do Nothing" Congress is sill doing nothing. You all hated congress and voted in your Democrats and they are just as worse or even worse than the Republican dominated Congress that was in before.

But, what people fail to see is the Dems are "do nothing" because at every turn, Bush threatens (or does) veto any bill that comes along until he gets his way. Remember "send it to me clean?" Did he ever say that with a Republican congress? Did Bush veto ANYTHING between 2000 and 2006 when the Republicans were in control? All of a sudden, in 2006, the chants were: no pork! and veto! How can Congress get anything done when the president is acting like a spoiled brat? "Give me what I want! Waaaa!!"
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:03 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 57):
And this has done what to increase airline safety?

Anyone who has ever run a safety program or a security program undestands that no accidents or no incidents produces no statistics. A flat line is pretty hard to analyze.

You can not possibly know what has deterred the terrorists who HAVE NOT hijacked an airplane since the FFDO program started unless you are a leader in the terrorist organizations. I could say that because no one has been murdered in my neighborhood cops should no longer be allowed to carry firearms and it would be just as inane.

I would suggest that the publicity given the FFDO, even the controversy which foolishly contends that the pilots involved are going to be a bunch of John Waynes galloping down the aisle guns blazing HAS convinced some in the terrorist networks that the probability of gaining control of the flight deck has been reduced perhaps to zero and therefore the program is a resounding success. I can't prove it but you most emphatically cannot disprove this claim.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:06 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 62):
You can not possibly know what has deterred the terrorists who HAVE NOT hijacked an airplane since the FFDO program started unless you are a leader in the terrorist organizations.

True. But it's also easy to say "We've stopped terrorist attacks" when none have happene. Remember it was 8 years between the WTC attacks. It also may be, SlamClick, that NO ATTACKS HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTED on our soil. Taking credit for something that hasn't even happened is also pretty easy, isn't it?
 
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seb146
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:06 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
So does a diploma from Yale.
So does being an officer in the United States Air Force
So does being a fighter pilot.

Is a person still considered a success if daddy pulls strings to get all those things? Even if the person goes AWOL from being a fighter pilot and daddy helps clear that up, are they still considered a success?
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:14 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 64):
Is a person still considered a success if daddy pulls strings to get all those things?

Is it your statement that he did not do the work required to complete the course of study at Yale?

Is it your statement that a Yale diploma can be purchased?

Simple yes or no answer will do.
 
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seb146
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 65):
Is it your statement that a Yale diploma can be purchased?

GHWB and Prescott Bush were both alumni of Yale. GWB had a low SAT (1200, I read), but daddy was a senator when he wanted to get into Yale. Can you honestly believe there were no strings being pulled?
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 50):
Any place where one can get these records? I have a hard time believing that, and would like to see where Clinton lost enough people to keep up with Iraq and Afghanistan.

Look on page ten of the following report.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 66):
GHWB and Prescott Bush were both alumni of Yale. GWB had a low SAT (1200, I read), but daddy was a senator when he wanted to get into Yale. Can you honestly believe there were no strings being pulled?

Don't change the subject.

Do you claim that Bush did not perform the coursework at Yale?
Do you claim that a Yale diploma can be purchased?

Straight answer. Then I'll answer your questions.
 
wouwout
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
Government records prove that fewer DoD personnel died on his watch than on Clinton's despite the war. Peacetime military deaths outnumbered war deaths

You slipped that in very easily, please show some sources.
 
sv7887
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:55 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 61):
But, what people fail to see is the Dems are "do nothing" because at every turn, Bush threatens (or does) veto any bill that comes along until he gets his way. Remember "send it to me clean?" Did he ever say that with a Republican congress? Did Bush veto ANYTHING between 2000 and 2006 when the Republicans were in control? All of a sudden, in 2006, the chants were: no pork! and veto! How can Congress get anything done when the president is acting like a spoiled brat? "Give me what I want! Waaaa!!"

Please, Congress approval ratings are even worse than GWB. What have they introduced that is even worth noting? Even Congress has backed off withdrawing hastily in Iraq once things started to calm down there. What have they done to address the Energy Crisis? I see a lot of whining about Bush but few ideas of their own...

I don't care who it is, Republicans OR Democrats. They haven't done jack to address the problems this country has.

Where is Medicare reform? Social Security Reform? Action on the oil crisis? Steps to address our infrastructure problems?

(This goes for BOTH GWB and Congress)

All either side has to offer are band aid solutions when the country is swimming in debt.
No one has the balls to confront the real issues and institute reforms.
 
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seb146
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:57 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 53):
Quoting Mir (Reply 50):
The terrorists in Iraq were largely a creation of the Iraq war,

See this is the kind of statement that just gets thrown around without anyone ever really examining it.

How many terrorists and insurgents were there in Iraq before Bush invaded? Where were the training camps? What did the training camps teach?
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 66):
GHWB and Prescott Bush were both alumni of Yale. GWB had a low SAT (1200, I read), but daddy was a senator when he wanted to get into Yale. Can you honestly believe there were no strings being pulled?

Don't change the subject. I asked direct questions calling for a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Here they are again:

Is it your statement that he did not do the work required to complete the course of study at Yale?

Is it your statement that a Yale diploma can be purchased?


Yes? No?
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:02 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 71):
How many terrorists and insurgents were there in Iraq before Bush invaded? Where were the training camps? What did the training camps teach?

None of that is even important. The only issue in this thread is whether or not the actions and policies of Dubya made them hate the USA or whether that is something inherent in their lives up until 2001.

Personally I love it that they flock to Iraq. So nice of them to identify themselves as targets in that manner rather than hiding behind their women and holy sites so they can murder civilians on buses and in crowds.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting Wouwout (Reply 69):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
Government records prove that fewer DoD personnel died on his watch than on Clinton's despite the war. Peacetime military deaths outnumbered war deaths

You slipped that in very easily, please show some sources.



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 67):
Look on page ten of the following report.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

 
Pope
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 66):
GHWB and Prescott Bush were both alumni of Yale. GWB had a low SAT (1200, I read), but daddy was a senator when he wanted to get into Yale. Can you honestly believe there were no strings being pulled?

The funny part is that even with his low SAT score of 1200, he got better grades than John Kerry. Oh yeah, John Kerry scored a 1190 on his SAT and got into the same school.

FACTS are liberals worst enemies.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:10 pm

Look lefties, don't make me out to be a Bush cheerleader. That is too big a job and too little reward for me. I had a dozen Republicans drop me from their RU lists over my thread criticising Bush in Katrinaland. "Great job Brownie!"

But I'm going to call any and all on stupid criticism of him. That is what I do here.

We've all heard a child throwing a tantrum scream "I hate you!" at their parents. Some of, maybe most of your criticisms on this thread sound like that to reasonable adults. He may be in the worst four or five Presidents he might be one of the best (I doubt that as much as you do) but none of you have the real info about that, it is too soon to tell, and your critiques would be more credible if you wouldn't shriek so.
 
AGM100
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:13 pm

[quote=Sv7887,reply=48]The card carrying Libs have no explanation for how an immigrant family like mine made it in this country in only 20 yrs. Magic? Nope just plain hard work...America gave us a visa, and we took it from there..My parents nor I expect the "Government" to hand us anything on a platter.

Liberal Americans need to stop whining and help themselves. I swear to god, you all whine like a bunch of entitled spoiled brats..

Yep... its just like that . 100% Correct . Now these are the types of Immigrants who make America stronger.


Pelosi is a liberal democrat ... she needs to instill the feeling that all is hopelessly lost unless her and her programs save you. It is typical cheap politics , burn your own house down to prove how bad things are. Democrats are willing to trash their own country and side with our enemies in order to gain power ... and most on here dont see any thing wrong with that?

President Bush has not been a failure , but failure is relative. If you are expecting him to give you a job and bail you out of your mortgage than failure may be appropriate. If you are expecting him to stand up to the Islamic extremist violent killers than he has done that. Its all about what you expect . All I hear from the Dems now is ..the economy the economy the economy .. like I said before. No one gave President Bush any credit when the economy sored to heights before unseen ... now they are bitching like spoiled kids and clinging to Obama's shoe strings. I will be bold enough to say the real truth ... the American people are more to blame for their predicament than any of our leaders. The American people have become soft ,confused and lazy and are are being sold into socialists slavery and welcoming it . The individual in this country has the freedom and opportunity to change their situation unlike any other country in the world, yet they look to government institutions to hold their hands. This is the mentality that is the cause of our "decline" , no one leader.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:14 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 74):

That is one of the two I was looking for. Thanks
 
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seb146
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 73):
None of that is even important. The only issue in this thread is whether or not the actions and policies of Dubya made them hate the USA or whether that is something inherent in their lives up until 2001.

Depends. There are training camps that teach that United States is the sworn enemy. Those camps are in places like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, Sudan, Yemen. They are filled with a hatred of the Untied States because they are told to.

Then, there is Iraq. There was NO action from insurgents from Iraq until AFTER Bush invaded. They do not want foreign fighters on their home soil. They want their country to be theirs, so they fight against the foreign fighters (American soldiers) so they can have what is theirs. So, in Iraq, yes, the actions of Dubya made Iraqis hate Americans. In other places, they were already hating the United States. Take your pick.

Quoting Pope (Reply 75):
The funny part is that even with his low SAT score of 1200, he got better grades than John Kerry. Oh yeah, John Kerry scored a 1190 on his SAT and got into the same school.

But, did Kerry get into Yale because of family ties or on his own? Big difference.
 
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yowza
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
So, yes, it does make one less of a failure.

I'm still not sure I see it the same way you do. I'm not demeaning the Office by any means but since Pelosi has never run for the Office I don't see the comparison as being valid.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
So does a diploma from Yale.

Getting into, and graduating from an elite school is actually not that difficult. This is something I know for a fact - especially when you're a wealthy "legacy" prospect. A very good friend of mine, who though he is a dear friend to me is far from being smart, also went through Yale fairly easily based on legacy favors.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
So does being an officer in the United States Air Force



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
So does being a fighter pilot.

He never saw combat and there were serious questions surrounding his service. As far as I'm concerned he was a "nintendo pilot" and by saying that I am in no way being disrespectful to the armed forces.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 60):
I once heard a guy claim "I wouldn't have a Rolls-Royce. They're crap!" Now I'm not here to praise the RR, but this guy was driving a rusted out Ford Pinto. That is ironic too, and somehow reminds me of Ms. Pelosi.

haha nice.

YOWza
 
jcs17
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
Well, the truth does hurt. He is going down as one of the worst president's of all time. No amount of sugar-coating can change that fact.

I never saw that one coming. Falcon84 gets ten points for originality!

As for Mrs. Pelosi, does anything else more need to be said about her failures?

Say what you will about the domestic-spending idiocy that went on during the GOP-controlled House and Senate, at least they were getting things done. I think the only major thing that you could definitively claim to Ms. Pelosi's credit (or discredit, IMO) is the minimum wage legislation. Nearly everything the Democrats ran on; ending the war in Iraq, crushing the Bush tax cuts, getting legislation moving on nationalized health care, has not been done. Instead of working hard on getting their legislation and ideas worked through Congress, they've virtually sat on their hands, pointed fingers, and continue to do so as we approach record high energy prices. Even Turban Durbin wants off the Pelosi/Reid bandwagon when it comes to energy reform!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:09 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 72):

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 66):
GHWB and Prescott Bush were both alumni of Yale. GWB had a low SAT (1200, I read), but daddy was a senator when he wanted to get into Yale. Can you honestly believe there were no strings being pulled?

Don't change the subject. I asked direct questions calling for a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Here they are again:

Are you guys REALLY arguing over Bush's SAT scores?

*throws up hands*
 
Pope
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:31 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 79):
But, did Kerry get into Yale because of family ties or on his own? Big difference.

So wait. 1190 gets someone in because of merit but the person with the 1200 score gets in because of family connection? Love the double standard. If the person with the lower test grades got in on his merits, how does it make sense to say that the person with the higher grades got in because of connection?

Your argument seems to be based on some sort of liberal affirmative action program where students not smart enough nor connected enough to get in the school are admitted based on LOWER test grades.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:05 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 81):
I never saw that one coming. Falcon84 gets ten points for originality!

This isn't about originality, Jcs. It's about facts. Facts you're too blind to see; facts you deny simply because you're stubbornly to the right, and incapable of even saying one negative word about the man.

Fortunately, most Americans don't agree with your assessment of the President. You're the minority in these discussions, not me. Too bad for you.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 81):
Say what you will about the domestic-spending idiocy that went on during the GOP-controlled House and Senate, at least they were getting things done.

 rotfl 

Yes, running up record deficits; pouring money like it was water over the richest Americans; outsourcing great jobs to other nations; making it harder for the average American to get finacially healhy, and easier for banks and lending institutions to do the same. Rubber-stamped a war that should never have been fought.

Yes, the accomplished a lot.

I wonder how you see the world in such a way, when most Americans see the exact opposite world. It's mind-boggling.

You, Pope, SlamClick, and a few others, seem to live in a world filled with delusions about this nation. It's hurting in countless areas, and you guys act like these are the best of times. Amazing.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:23 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 10):
Threre is no context to compare it too on several fronts.

Just refer to the context starting back in January of 2001.
 
AGM100
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:23 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 84):
pouring money like it was water over the richest Americans; outsourcing great jobs to other nations; making it harder for the average American to get finacially healhy, and easier for banks and lending institutions to do the same. Rubber-stamped a war that should never have been fought

The government does not pour money over rich people , the vast majority of them earn it . The GOP did not give money to anyone , they just left it in the hands of those who gathered it. But whatever , .... Falcon you amaze me sometimes , does the government really have that much of a effect on your life ? And what do you want the government to do ? Take from those who earn it and give it you ? I dont think you do , so why the all complaining ?

Outsourcing is a decision made by corporations and even small business. Thank the unions , and liberals for making it harder to do business here .. And it was happening prior to President Bush being in office anyway.

I have problems with the GOP for sure , they deserved to be sent out of office .. they should have cut taxes more , and cut 50% of social programs. They were hired to cut down the size of our government and they did not . goodbye

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 84):
It's hurting in countless areas, and you guys act like these are the best of times. Amazing.



Falcon when is the last time you traveled around the country ? Maybe I am delusional but it sure seems to be busy to me .. sure things could be better ... their will never be utopia but for petes sake you act like we are in Angola or something . Whats amazing is that you think Obama can do anything about all these woes you speak of ....
 
Pope
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:41 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 84):
You, Pope, SlamClick, and a few others, seem to live in a world filled with delusions about this nation. It's hurting in countless areas, and you guys act like these are the best of times. Amazing.

I have absolutely no delusion about this country. Let me state this in no uncertain terms so that there is no confusion WE ARE IN THE CRAPPER AND ITS GETTING WORSE EVERY DAY.

Where we do differ is that you view increased government involvement as the solution to all problems and I view government involvement as the CAUSE of most of these problem.

If interest rates weren't kept artificially low by government action the mortgage crisis wouldn't have been as bad.

If tougher interrogation techniques and greater governmental interaction between agencies were authorized, 9/11 might not have happened.

If the bankruptcy code wasn't so generous to irresponsible borrowers - people might be more cautious about the amount of debt they take on.

If more parents lived within their means instead of spending money they don't have on eating out, vacations, plasma TV's bigger houses and luxury cars, then they would have more time to spend with their children and in turn, their children would be better students.

Heck if more people just said no to fucking the first person that came along, we might have less unwanted children.

However, in every case, you liberals want to increase the role of government. You want more subsidies, you want less proactive security, you want to offer irresponsible borrowers more excuses to not honor their debts and you want the responsibility to raise your children to rest with the government and not the parents. You want to subsidize abortion instead of teaching people that actions have consequences and those consequences are usually really bad for teenagers without high school degrees who have children.

You scream about choice - but refuse to mention responsibility.

You criticize the action of our Supreme Court but never take the time to read its decisions. Instead relying on the dumbed down spoon fed spin of Katie Couric to feed your mind. You turn to Dan Rather who was exposed as a fraud when he crossed over from reporting the news to creating it in order to forward his own political agenda.

The only one who is delusional is you when you believe that our salvation of the huge mess we are in lies in government and not the personal responsibility of the individual. You are delusional when you think that the 50% of taxpayer who pay 96% of all taxes aren't being taxed enough. You are delusional when you think that sitting down with people whose first agenda item is your destruction will lead to long-term progress. You are delusional when you blame your failure to succeed in life on others.

[Edited 2008-07-18 13:58:08]
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 82):
Are you guys REALLY arguing over Bush's SAT scores?

No. At least I never did. Never made any mention of it. Are you sure you read correctly?

He appears to be claiming that a Yale diploma can be purchased. I don't believe it. So far he has declined to answer a direct question on that subject, however.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:07 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 84):
You, Pope, SlamClick, and a few others, seem to live in a world filled with delusions about this nation. It's hurting in countless areas, and you guys act like these are the best of times. Amazing.

You, Bud, really need to read more carefully.

I never said these were good times.
I never said Bush was a great President.
Nothing of the kind and it would be most dishonest of you to imply otherwise.

I began by pointing out the irony of a career-peaked Pelosi calling a two-time president a loser. I ended up disputing some incredibly dumb assertions like the fifty years preceding Dubya being some kind of paradise-on-Earth. You know as well as I do that she would sell her soul, if she had one, to be President. It is ironic. She parodied herself in the most pathetic sour-grapes manner and it is funny. The only thing she could do to retain a shred of dignity would be to keep her mouth shut for another six months and mean old Mr. Bush will be gone and I'd make it about 65-35 that he will be replaced by the Democratic intern Obama.

But I guess pointless attacks on a lame-duck who happens to be about the easiest target to come along in a generation, is preferable to admitting that even with their much-touted control the Dems have accomplished pretty much, jack.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:24 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 87):
You scream about choice - but refuse to mention responsibility.

On the contrary, I've always advocated responsibility from individuals. I do not believe in the creed of birth-to-death welfare, and that individuals have a responsibility to improve themselves, and their lot in live.

I do not believe in the handout system. I do believe in people getting a helping hand when it's needed, as in the case of the Midwest floods, and the like. But in the case of government charity, it should be used only in an emergency situation, not as a lifestyle, Pope.

So, on that one, I'm gonna call you out on it.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:27 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 89):
Bush will be gone and I'd make it about 65-35 that he will be replaced by the Democratic intern Obama.

Actually, it will be President Obama, SlamClick. Now, you can complain about my beefs with Mr. Bush, but you can't even give Mr. Obama any respect, it seems. I at least don't call the President derrogatory names. It's either Mr. Bush, or President Bush.

Maybe you should try it.
 
Pope
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:33 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 90):
On the contrary, I've always advocated responsibility from individuals. I do not believe in the creed of birth-to-death welfare, and that individuals have a responsibility to improve themselves, and their lot in live.

I do not believe in the handout system. I do believe in people getting a helping hand when it's needed, as in the case of the Midwest floods, and the like. But in the case of government charity, it should be used only in an emergency situation, not as a lifestyle, Pope.

So, on that one, I'm gonna call you out on it.

I'm on my way out of the office but this weekend I'm sure I find plenty of examples where you have advocated exactly what I am suggesting. You stance on the government's role in the mortgage crisis is one example off the top of my head that clearly doesn't fall in the category of emergency situations like the midwest floods.

But even the floods raise the issue - where's the personal responsibility for the homeowner who lives in close proximity to water and doesn't buy homeowner's insurance. It's the same mentality of the people of NOLA's (who you've repeatedly defended) who lived under sea level and placed all their trust in government to protect them. You've gone on record to excuse their conduct and lay responsibility only on the back of the government. That doesn't seem to be the conduct of someone who believes in personal responsibility.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:46 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 91):
Maybe you should try it.

Maybe you should stop telling lies about me.
Or take them over to that whining site.
You still have not acknowledged my corrections to your post.
do we have to cue the crickets again?

[Edited 2008-07-18 14:55:09]
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:53 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 92):
You stance on the government's role in the mortgage crisis is one example off the top of my head that clearly doesn't fall in the category of emergency situations like the midwest floods.

About to lose a house, because the lenders misrepresented a loan to you, isn't an emergency? I'd say in that case you're wrong. That is definitely an emergency for a family. Do I think they should simply be bailed out? No. I do believe that making a mortgage that works for them, so that they aren't thrown out on their butts into the street is assistance, not a handout. Maybe you see it different, but that's how I see it.

Quoting Pope (Reply 92):
I'm on my way out of the office but this weekend I'm sure I find plenty of examples where you have advocated exactly what I am suggesting.

 rotfl 

You need to get a life if that's what you're going to do this weekend.  Yeah sure

Quoting Pope (Reply 92):
But even the floods raise the issue - where's the personal responsibility for the homeowner who lives in close proximity to water and doesn't buy homeowner's insurance.

For most the people flooded, they didn't live anywhere near normal flood areas, Pope, and most didn't have it because they figured they'd never need it. You going to punish those people with that lovely compassionate conservatism.

I do agree with you, however, if you live in flood-prone areas, or areas prone to hurricanes, or mudslides, you should not get federal assistance to simply rebuild and rebuild and rebuild. In that case homeowners should have to pay up the nose for insurance, and be aware that, being in a high-risk area of some type, they can't get bailed out. On that we agree.
 
StuckInCA
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:04 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 92):
But even the floods raise the issue - where's the personal responsibility for the homeowner who lives in close proximity to water and doesn't buy homeowner's insurance

Wanna guess at what percentage of those flooded people (recently, in the "middle states") were Republicans?
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:24 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 94):

Hey Falcon I see you are still here.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 93):
You still have not acknowledged my corrections to your post.


edit: chirp! chirp!

[Edited 2008-07-18 16:49:54]
 
Platypus
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:01 pm

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:39 pm

I know some left wing hacks will stand behind Pelosi on this one. But, it only displays how completely incompetent Pelosi, her cronies and the new democratic congress is.

* They ran on ending the war, they didn't!

* They said they'd stop the funding for the war, they didn't!

* The deficit was going down prior to them taking over, it's going back up!

* They said the war was lost! It isn't!

* Gas prices have almost double since 2006, and they have no plans, ideas, nor interest in elevating the problem in a timely manner. They're more interested in smarmy, disingenuous witch hunt hearings with oil companies, to shift the blame of high gas prices on the oil companies, not them!

This democratic congress is the most incompetent, partisan and childish congress in my life time. All they can do is blame Bush for their F-ups!! When they themselves are to blame or should share some of the blame!!! It is no wonder why this Democratic congress has such amasingly low scores, which BTW are much lower than GW.

This democratic congress's goal is to see to it, that Bush and the US efforts fail!!!

And, Carter, by far, was the worst president in my life time! He's in a class all by his self!

Cheerio
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:51 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 94):
About to lose a house, because the lenders misrepresented a loan to you, isn't an emergency? I'd say in that case you're wrong. That is definitely an emergency for a family. Do I think they should simply be bailed out? No. I do believe that making a mortgage that works for them, so that they aren't thrown out on their butts into the street is assistance, not a handout. Maybe you see it different, but that's how I see it.

Oh okay it's the lender's fault now. People know what they can't afford. If you are looking at a $300K house and make 50K a year there is no sane way you can afford that. I don't care what loan the lender pitches to the person..

People know when they can't afford something, I don't care how a lender slices and dices it. They knew what the price of the house was and they willingly overextended themselves out of greed and stupidity.

I must get 5 credit card solicitations a week. So if I take them up on the offer and cash those pretty 0% for 6 months checks...So fast forward a year later when whoops the interest rate is now 17%

Who's fault is it? The credit card company's or mine???

The problem I have with Liberals is that there is no sense of personal responsibility. Buying a house that you know is out of your league is plain retarded.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ms. Pelosi Calls Bush A Failure

Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:00 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 98):
Buying a house that you know is out of your league is plain retarded.

Not if you know the government will bail you out to save your lender, and you are UTTERLY DEVOID OF any sense of personal ethics or responsibility. Sadly I know a number of people who call themselves conservaties who deliberately took advantage of that speculation and bought way out of their league. I'm ashamed of them and have little to do with them anymore.

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