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EA CO AS
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Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:43 am

Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25846393/

Fair-use excerpt:

Men (or women) who decide to get on bended knee: Be warned. You could find yourself on both knees, facing a judge instead of a justice of the peace.

That’s what happened in Florida this week, when a woman was awarded $150,000 after suing her former fiancé for calling off their wedding.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:36 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

Not as much as is wrong with MSNBC... the Gainesville in the article is in Georgia, and there is no Hall County in Florida. This is a Georgia case.

Aside from that, she sued under a pretty common legal theory known as detrimental reliance. It's not as far fetched as the news makes it out to be...  Cool
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:12 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement. Most people do it out of love, without thinking of the consequences.

Also, the husband-to-be asked her to move with him to a different state, and out of love for him, and thinking of the long-term benefits of staying with him versus her job, she left an 80,000$ paying job, and took one making 50k less. --> Pretty admirable if I may say so.

Not long after the engagement, he expressed that he wanted to postpone the wedding, nad subsequently left her.

What he did was callous and cold. You can't tell me that when he asked her to marry him that he didn't have cold feet at the time.

Be careful what you do before you ask someone to marry them. There's a lot more riding on it than a ring.

1011yyz
 
PPVRA
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:23 pm



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

No it isn't. You can break the contract (divorce) at any time for any reason.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:09 pm

Case sounds rather logical to me.

The woman received what basically is a representation from her soon to be husband and acted accordingly, but suffered significant damages as a result of him failing to carry through.

I really dont see this as being much different then other civil cases where one party in good faith acts based on the words of another party to only be stuck holding the bag when the second party fails to uphold their end.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:08 pm



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

No it isn't. You can break the contract (divorce) at any time for any reason.

Well, I think you're confusing marriage and engagement. I've never heard of anybody divorcing their fiancee. Regardless, as this case shows, if you breach the agreement to marry someone, you may be liable for damages, same with just about any breach of contract...
 
PPVRA
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:51 pm

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 5):
Well, I think you're confusing marriage and engagement. I've never heard of anybody divorcing their fiancee.

I suppose I did, but you also don't have to marry the fiancee. Involuntary servitude stuff.

Not to mention life would be pure hell for both.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 5):
Regardless, as this case shows, if you breach the agreement to marry someone, you may be liable for damages, same with just about any breach of contract...

That's fair enough, and I agree, this is a case of detrimental reliance as you stated earlier.

[Edited 2008-07-26 10:53:02]
 
iairallie
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:58 pm



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):

I suppose I did, but you also don't have to marry the fiancee. Involuntary servitude stuff.

No you don't but it doesn't mean there aren't consequences for making that choice.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:59 pm



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement

How do you figure that?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:59 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 5):
Regardless, as this case shows, if you breach the agreement to marry someone, you may be liable for damages, same with just about any breach of contract...

Tell that to the folks over on Civ Av, and the threads on Hidden City ticketing.  Yeah sure

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement

How do you figure that?

There's nothing legally binding about an engagement! There's no papers, save the local fish wrap, saying anything about it being anythng legal. That is crap, and it should get overturned in a higher court.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:06 pm

Could it be that this descision was based on some obsolete law which was never rescinded?
Up to a few years ago we still had a law in Germany, which granted a woman a financial compensation if a guy promised to marry her and she, as a result of this promise, had sex with him and lost her virginity, and the guy then disn't marry her. Due to female virginity having lost it's importance for marriage, the law hadn't been applied for decades, before parliament got rid of it.

Jan
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:59 pm

what i want to know is why someone would give up a $81000/yr job and even accept a $31000/yr job. That just perplexes me. If she was able to get a high paying job like that, surely she could find something that paid more than an entry level position.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 11):
what i want to know is why someone would give up a $81000/yr job and even accept a $31000/yr job.

Especially for some douche she wasn't even married to yet, only engaged...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:26 am



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

Sure. And "gullible" isn't in the dictionary.  sarcastic 
 
PPVRA
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:07 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 7):
No you don't but it doesn't mean there aren't consequences for making that choice.

Such as in this case, but had she not spent a ton of money on what they were planning together, then there aren't any consequences. No legal consequences anyways.
 
Pope
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:28 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
Tell that to the folks over on Civ Av, and the threads on Hidden City ticketing.

Or the bleeding hearts on the non-av forum who insist that fully executed mortgage contracts shouldn't be enforced. Big grin

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   Big grin
 
N1120A
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:11 am



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

Not actually getting engaged, but if someone relies in a way that creates a detriment, it is.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):

No it isn't. You can break the contract (divorce) at any time for any reason.

You can break the contract, but not without financial implications, particularly in a community property state.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
That is crap, and it should get overturned in a higher court.

Not particularly likely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the legal finding here, and jury verdicts are rarely ever overturned.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
Could it be that this descision was based on some obsolete law which was never rescinded?

Nope. Very well established common law principals at work here.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:00 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

Not actually getting engaged, but if someone relies in a way that creates a detriment, it is.

Source, with a legal precedent (other than this short-sighted one)?

Because anyone can argue "detriment" from a failed engagement - the inability to cultivate other relationships, turning down a job opportunity that requires extensive travel, etc.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:10 am



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Source, with a legal precedent

Its quite a basic legal basis called detrimental reliance


Detrimental reliance is a term commonly used to force another to perform their obligations under a contract, using the theory of promissory estoppel. Promissory estoppel may apply when the following elements are proven:

-A promise was made
-Relying on the promise was reasonable or foreseeable
-There was actual and reasonable reliance on the promise
-The reliance was detrimental

Detrimental reliance must be shown to involve reliance that is reasonable, which is a determination made on an individual case-by-case basis, taking all factors into consideration. Detrimental means that some type of harm is suffered.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:41 am



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 2):
Getting engaged is a legally binding agreement.

Not actually getting engaged, but if someone relies in a way that creates a detriment, it is.

Source, with a legal precedent (other than this short-sighted one)?

Because anyone can argue "detriment" from a failed engagement - the inability to cultivate other relationships, turning down a job opportunity that requires extensive travel, etc.

It's a very basic legal theory that EVERY first year law student knows...
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:49 am

okay how about this twist......guy spends a few thousand $ on an egagement ring. she calls off the wedding for whatever reason. can he sue to get the ring or money back? afterall he suffered a loss as she broke the "contract".
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:02 pm



Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 20):
can he sue to get the ring or money back?

Yes and has been sued over many times.

Basic argument is that the the ring is given in as a conditional gift, in contemplation of something(marriage), so failure to carry thru means no marriage = no ring.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:03 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 19):
It's a very basic legal theory that EVERY first year law student knows...

Absolutely, this is basic Contract I stuff. No source required.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:26 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 19):
It's a very basic legal theory that EVERY first year law student knows...

And if I'd ever BEEN a first year law student, you might have a validity behind to your pompous response. But since I'm not and don't profess to have been legally-trained, you'll have to forgive what you apparently consider to be the ridiculous requests of someone for a legal explanation and a cited source.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 22):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 19):
It's a very basic legal theory that EVERY first year law student knows...

Absolutely, this is basic Contract I stuff. No source required.

Again counselor, I guess you'll have to excuse my ignorance for not having studied law.  sarcastic 

What is with you attorneys? Do you operate under the assumption that EVERYONE has undertaken the years of advanced education in your field that you have? Is that why questions about something come with dismissive responses that imply your time is being wasted?

I certainly hope you don't treat your clients that way.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:53 am



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
I certainly hope you don't treat your clients that way.

Only the clients that think I'm:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
Sure. And "gullible" isn't in the dictionary.

Although if you want to pay my hourly rate, you can call me worse than that...  Cool
 
Pope
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:50 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
Again counselor, I guess you'll have to excuse my ignorance for not having studied law.

Then perhaps you shouldn't comment on matters you know nothing about.

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):

Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

Maybe your first post should have begun . . . "In my ignorance, I consider this the dumbest, ruling ever?"

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Source, with a legal precedent (other than this short-sighted one)?

If anyone was condescening it was you.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:05 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
But since I'm not and don't profess to have been legally-trained,

Then you should reconsider making blanket assertions on subjects you know absolutely nothing about. If you really wanted to know about WHY the ruling came out the way it did, you could look up the opinion yourself and read it.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
you'll have to forgive what you apparently consider to be the ridiculous requests of someone for a legal explanation and a cited source.

I find the whole "cited source" to be unnecessary. Why do you need a cited source? Can't find one yourself?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
I certainly hope you don't treat your clients that way.

Clients pay--there's only so much you can get for free on the interwebs.
 
lincoln
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:20 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 19):
It's a very basic legal theory that EVERY first year law student knows...

As do a bunch of law junkies who aren't lawyers (myself), and just about anyone who's watched more than one episode of The People's Court (yes, a guilty pleasure, so sue me).

I thought, though that the "detrement" had to be tangible; i.e. you couldn't win damages using the detemental reliance therory, for example, on an opportunity cost ("Had I not agreed to move across state lines with him/her, I would have been able to accept this job that required extensive travel and potentially paid $xxxxxx more", vs. "I was making $80,000; now I'm making $30,000 and I lost $xxxxxxx because I sold my house/belongings/etc in anticipation of getting married")
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 25):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
Again counselor, I guess you'll have to excuse my ignorance for not having studied law.

Then perhaps you shouldn't comment on matters you know nothing about.

Hasn't stopped you much, so....  sarcastic 

Quoting Pope (Reply 25):
Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):

Dumbest. Ruling. EVER. WTF is wrong with those Florida judges?

Maybe your first post should have begun . . . "In my ignorance, I consider this the dumbest, ruling ever?"

Fair point, and I'll certainly concede that.
 
Pope
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:42 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 28):
Hasn't stopped you much, so....

Wow. Boy did I hit a nerve. Unfortunately, this thread wasn't about me. You made a ridiculous statement, you then demanded others offer proof of how ridiculous it was and finally you got all upset about people pointing out your ignorance.

I can see how lashing out at me might make you feel better or try to distract from your own foolish posts.

Now, if you want to point to particular examples of what I've spoken about that I have no knowledge of, then go ahead. But if you can't, it just shows how desparate you really are.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:59 pm

So you mean all I gotta do is get a guy to propose, and then get him to call it off, and I can sue him for a 150,000 dollars?

Totally cool. I need to find some suckers to try this one on...


Andrea Kent
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
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RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 30):
and I can sue him for a 150,000 dollars?

Only if you can prove that you actually suffered a loss of 150,000 dollars as a result of him backing out.

These aren't punitive or special damages (as far as I can tell) they're actual damages.
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: Jilted Bride-to-be Sues Ex - And Wins?!?

Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:18 pm

Lincoln,

Oh they're only actual damages? Oh... Damn.

I was thinking of making a career out of this...


Andrea Kent

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