SlamClick
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Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:40 am

Though this was an interesting bit out of Seattle today.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372364_criticalmass27.html

I don't know where to start with this one. Someone jump in.
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MattRB
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:02 am

Armed protesters. And the police are taking a 'hands off' approach?

Time for the police to do their jobs and put these hooligans in their place.
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prosa
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:09 am

New York has had troubles with these Critical Mass protests for several years. There have been some mass arrests, but the demonstrations continue on a regular basis.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
tootallsd
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:03 am

The problem is that car and truck drivers think that roads are for them and them alone. Critical Mass did a ride here in San Diego and I was surprised by some of the irritation expressed by drivers in the televised video.

Police only enforce one thing: The Status Quo
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:39 am

There are three sides to every story:

The cyclists' version
The motorist's version
The truth.

The cyclists' and the motorist's stories differ greatly. Regardless, the cyclists should not have resorted to such violence. Get the guy's plate but it wasn't necessary to damage the car or hurt the guy, regardless of what he did.
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johns624
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:09 pm

I don't condone what they did, but it was understandable. I ride 1000+ miles a year and have been run off the road, yelled at, and had bottles thrown at me. I have a partially "frozen" left shoulder due to being hit by a car. People treat cyclists this way because they think there aren't any consequences. Remember this- when I'm in my car and you almost sideswipe me, you almost dented my fender. When the same thing happens when I'm on my bike, you almost took off my leg.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:00 pm

What the rest of the world wonders is why the US that seems to build more and bigger motorways everytime I visit cant build a separate bicycle lane on its streets.

Its not that hard actually...

Cities are made for bikes and pedestrians. Start by slowly blocking more and more roads for cars and see the difference it makes.
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767Lover
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:08 pm

I support cyclists (I like to ride as well) but it would be nice if cyclists didn't treat other vehicle drivers as the enemy.

It's not as if car or truck drivers had other options for roadways, and it's not that easy to maneuver a car or truck quickly.

I've seen bad drivers, but I've also had cyclists drift in front of me without looking where they were going. It wouldn't matter if I were driving 5MPH, it would still be dangerous.
 
johns624
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:22 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
and it's not that easy to maneuver a car or truck quickly.

It is if you're not going too fast for conditions.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
it would be nice if cyclists didn't treat other vehicle drivers as the enemy.

When someone in a car tries to hurt me, they ARE the enemy.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:27 pm

I have no sympathy for the bicyclists, sorry.

The roads are for cars and trucks--that's the reality, and if you don't like it, tough. If a bicyclist doesn't want to be honked at, cursed at or run off the road, then (1) they better stop riding between two lines of stopped cars (I had a long scratch put on my car by a biker doing that shit, so I now usually pull towards the center to prevent someone from fitting between my car and another car, and if they try it, they're going to regret it. I've been cursed at a few times, but I really don't effing care), (2) if you're gonna ride in the center of the road, you better be moving at least the speed of traffic, otherwise you'll get rightfully run over and (3) stop going through red lights and stop signs--after all, you're also a "vehicle" and you have to follow all the traffic laws just like cars do, and if you get killed doing that, no one's fault but your own.

The Critical Mass people got what they deserved, and I find it a little amusing that the dude's bike got trashed.
 
johns624
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:39 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
The roads are for cars and trucks--that's the reality, and if you don't like it, tough



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
otherwise you'll get rightfully run over



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
they're going to regret it

You're an attorney? I suggest you read the Motor Vehicle Code.
 
lincoln
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:39 pm



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 6):
cant build a separate bicycle lane on its streets.

They exist... I wouldn't say "most" streets in general have them, but in CA most of the large surface streets (i.e. not in residential areas and not the freeeways) have them; I've even seen a few out here in Ohio.

I will say that a lot of the roads in the greater Cleveland area feel far too narrow for the number of traffic lanes on them [usually 2], let alone leaving room for a dedicated bike lane. Combined with a relatively small number of riders vs. vehicles....

Lincoln
[Who really wants to buy a bike and try riding to work... but is still feeling really poor after paying my property tax bill  Sad ]
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huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:49 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 10):
You're an attorney? I suggest you read the Motor Vehicle Code.

 cry  I suggest you do the same thing--a bike is a vehicle which must obey ALL traffic laws (including minimum speed limits, staying in/changing lanes, and other signals).

Should a cyclist get injured or their bike destroyed in the process of violating these laws, they've earned what they got, whether it's a dented fender or a broken leg.  fever   headache   splat   weeping 

Further, as long as I stay in my lane, I am well within my rights to narrow the gap between myself and a car alongside. Cyclists cutting between two lanes of stopped cars do so at their own peril.
 
johns624
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:22 pm

I

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 12):
I suggest you do the same thing--a bike is a vehicle which must obey ALL traffic laws (including minimum speed limits

I don't know how it is in Maryland, but in Michigan you just have to ride to the right and not maintain the minimum limit.
You seem to have a lot of pent up anger...
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:27 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 13):
I don't know how it is in Maryland, but in Michigan you just have to ride to the right and not maintain the minimum limit.

If they want to ride to the right, that is fine with me--it is the bikers that ride in the middle of traffic that I have a significant problem with.

This morning I saw a guy on a bike almost get creamed when he popped out into traffic from behind a bus. Yes, it pisses me off significantly when babies start crying about how cars "are out to get them."
 
prosa
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:55 pm

Here is a video clip of a cop attacking a Critical Mass rider in New York. Believe it or not, the rider was charged with attempted assault!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting PROSA (Reply 15):

Damn, that cop totally blew up the rider.

Just because that's wrong doesn't mean those bikes should be doing what they're doing. I see all kinds of traffic violations in that video.
 
lowrider
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:11 pm

Isn't this the same group that harassed and harangued an elderly couple in a minivan a few years back? If you want to ride in traffic, have at it, but you still must play by the same rules as everyone else. It seems these Critical Mass rides have a tendency to ignore traffic laws and common sense, then riders are surprised when there are accidents and incidents. In this Seattle incident, it is reported that riders where on the wrong side of the road. If I drove on the wrong side of the road, I would be surprised if I didn't get hit. In the end, I think they do their cause more harm than good. A sense of smug self righteousness does not give you the right to obstruct other people going about their business.
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RayChuang
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:19 pm

I have news for the cyclists: some of them have a really bad habit of not following the "rules of the road." (Here in California, there are specific parts of the Vehicular Code that deals with bicyclists.)

So how about this: follow the flow of traffic, heed all traffic signs and signals, and be courteous to drivers every now and then, too (people forget that cars and trucks take longer to stop than bicycles).
 
CJAContinental
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:49 pm

If the article gives an accurate description, then I'm with the driver on this one. Protest if you have to, but don't make anyone else's life difficult by impeding them, and not letting them get on with their lives. The driver may have had to attend to something very important, and they stopped him. I suppose he could have called the police. Never the less, ridiculous.
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Dougloid
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:49 pm

The one thing nobody can dance around is the damage that a car will do to a bicyclist in a showdown. The worst a driver of a car might get is a bit of damage to the paint. My friend Dan got ass ended while riding his bicycle down the street and nearly died because of some mother fuckin' driver of an automobile who did not bother to stop and call an ambulance. He landed on his face and broke the orbit around his right eye in eight places.

I can think of half a dozen fatalities in the last few years here. Usually they run and hide the car until they sober up because they're smart enough to realize it's vehicular homicide with a 25 year sentence tacked on. Pepole remember that even when they're blind drunk.

People get killed and injured pretty regularly around here, which is why I do not ride on the public highways here even though it is my right to do so-people in cars have made it much too dangerous.

And, sorry to say, a lot of them have the attitude that folks display here.

 Angry
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huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 19):
The one thing nobody can dance around is the damage that a car will do to a bicyclist in a showdown. The worst a driver of a car might get is a bit of damage to the paint. My friend Dan got ass ended while riding his bicycle down the street and nearly died because of some mother fuckin' driver of an automobile who did not bother to stop and call an ambulance. He landed on his face and broke the orbit around his right eye in eight places.

I can think of half a dozen fatalities in the last few years here. Usually they run and hide the car until they sober up because they're smart enough to realize it's vehicular homicide with a 25 year sentence tacked on. Pepole remember that even when they're blind drunk.

People get killed and injured pretty regularly around here, which is why I do not ride on the public highways here even though it is my right to do so-people in cars have made it much too dangerous.

And, sorry to say, a lot of them have the attitude that folks display here.

And yet you're assuming that the driver is always wrong (and/or drunk). This isn't Beijing, Dougloid--cars rule the road. There are plenty of places to ride a bike regardless of where you live that aren't nearly as dangerous as a busy street.

Yes, a car does a lot more damage to a bike than the other way around--hence when you're on a bike, you should be that much more careful. It's not a car's duty to be the only responsible person on the road. It's also not a cyclist's God-given right to impede traffic and obey the rules only when it's convenient.
 
lincoln
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
And yet you're assuming that the driver is always wrong (and/or drunk). This isn't Beijing, Dougloid--cars rule the road. There are plenty of places to ride a bike regardless of where you live that aren't nearly as dangerous as a busy street.

That's assuming that the cyclist has a choice as to route and destination -- yes, for example, there are some large municipal parks in my area with little or no vehicle/cyclist "conflict" as the DOT likes to refer to it... That may be fine for a Sunday ride, but...

If I were to ride a bike in to work (again I don't own a bike [yet], so this is purely hypothetical), my choices are Really Busy Street, Busy Street, or Hilly Busy street, or private property (which would be trespass, and at the very least make me unpopular)

Roads arepublic rights of way -- just as I apprciate a cyclist that keeps to the right when I'm passing, I'm sure they appreciate me pulling as far left as possible... a little courtesy goes a long way.
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jcs17
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns

Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:52 pm

This brings up my one of favorite YouTube videos. It has since been taken down because of a "copyright violation" from the Bicycle Civil Liberties Union (I imagine those morons must be poster-children for success). The wannabe hippies in Berkeley go for their Critical Mass bicycle ride where they block traffic in order to make some sort of statement about their love of bikes or their inability to afford cars. Anyway, some fat hippie bitch with dreads gets her bike run over by an elderly couple driving a van. The elderly couple gets assaulted by the unwashed, tofu-eating losers of Northern California, and all the while this fat, ugly bitch is just crying and screaming next to her mangled $50 bike. Its definitely good for a laugh.

I have no problem with bicyclists as long as they properly share the road with cars, but taking up entire streets is just asking for trouble.
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Starbuk7
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:55 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 10):
You're an attorney? I suggest you read the Motor Vehicle Code.

This is out of the California Driving Handbook, Bicyclists need to obey the rule of the road, and I have personally seen over half of these rule broken by bike riders EVERY DAY here in California.

BICYCLES
Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers. Here are some critical points for drivers and cyclists to remember:
• Drivers must:
- look carefully for bicyclists before opening doors next to moving traffic or before turning right.
- safely merge toward the curb or into the bike lane.
- not overtake a bicyclist just before making a right turn. Merge first, then turn.
• Bicyclists:
- are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.
- must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.
- must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical---not on the sidewalk.
- must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes.
- may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle,
an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards.
- may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of a one-way street.
- may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead, he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns.
- are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways, in some rural areas where there is no alternate route. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 22):
Roads arepublic rights of way -- just as I apprciate a cyclist that keeps to the right when I'm passing, I'm sure they appreciate me pulling as far left as possible... a little courtesy goes a long way.

I'm all for courtesy, and I'm not for random acts of injuring cyclists, but I'm never gonna buy the whole "woe is me because I ride a bike and cars are out to get me" argument and I don't tolerate some of the shit cyclists do. I drive through a busy city every single day and if I had a dollar for every cyclist I saw that endangered (i) themselves, (ii) pedestrians or (iii) cars/drivers, I could turn around and drive home without having to go to the office. It would be quite nice, actually.

Roads are public rights of way, but there's a reason I don't drive a horse-and-buggy to work everyday.
 
lincoln
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:07 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 25):
Roads are public rights of way, but there's a reason I don't drive a horse-and-buggy to work everyday.

Good thing you don't live out here in Ohio, then  Wink
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huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:24 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 26):
Good thing you don't live out here in Ohio, then

 rotfl  I forgot about the folks over in that neck of the woods.
 
Blackprojects
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:31 pm

In Greater London UK I have seen Cyclists break just about every rule in the Highway Code and I should know as I am a Cyclist my self but I stop at Red lights unlike a large number of Kamikaze cyclists who seem to think ythat jumping red lights is alright it isnt Red lights are there to protect us as well as allow traffic to flow freely.

People who jump red lights and get Splatterd by a motor vehicle deserve every thing they get but a lot of the time Cyclists are cut up and Squeezed of the road by motorists who think a cycle lane dosent exhist as they cant see it or are ignoring it .

Also motorists pull over and block cycle lanes when ever they whant to forcing cyclists out into the main flow off traffic.

London introduced boxes at most traffic lights so Cyclists could wait ahead of the traffic and Motorists are supposed to stay out of these boxes, They are about as effective as Brill cream givem to monkey"s Motorists just dont give a rats about cyclists and never will untill those boxes become fine zones and that will stop dozens of Cyclists ending up beeing Honked or having verbal and Physical abuse every day by motorists who just dont give a SH**.

More Cyclists are killed each year by big trucks and Bendy busses than by any thing else as they get trapped and Squashed and killed.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:44 pm



Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 3):
The problem is that car and truck drivers think that roads are for them and them alone.

While cyclists think that the rules of the road only apply to car and truck drivers.... Wink

They wanna share the road, share the rules and we'll all get along much more happily.

Fortunately, our area is unaffected by these protests/demonstrations.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
satx
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:57 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 25):
I'm all for courtesy, and I'm not for random acts of injuring cyclists

Really?

Because you come off as someone who’s just itching for a fight...

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
they're going to regret it.

&

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
you'll get rightfully run over

&

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
if you get killed doing that, no one's fault but your own.

&

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 12):
they've earned what they got



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 14):
Yes, it pisses me off significantly when babies start crying about how cars "are out to get them."

What about the folks who scream blood murder over a paint scratch but see nothing wrong with taking a leg off?

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
cars rule the road.

I was raised to yield to pedestrians and bicyclists, because they're maimed or killed if and when I screw up.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
There are plenty of places to ride a bike regardless of where you live that aren't nearly as dangerous as a busy street.

If your bicycle is your primary method of transportation then you’re going to need access to the same roads everyone else is using.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
It's also not a cyclist's God-given right to impede traffic and obey the rules only when it's convenient.

Nor is it a motorists “God-given right” to take off legs because of a silly ego trip.
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huskyaviation
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:15 pm



Quoting SATX (Reply 30):
I was raised to yield to pedestrians and bicyclists, because they're maimed or killed if and when I screw up.

Well I was raised to obey traffic laws and to take all reasonable care. If that's not enough, then it's not my problem. Cyclists can't assume that everyone is going to a Linda Blair 360 headspin just to make sure some cyclist isn't doing what they are supposed to do.

Quoting SATX (Reply 30):
If your bicycle is your primary method of transportation then you’re going to need access to the same roads everyone else is using.

And if those cyclists obeyed the law as it was written for cyclists there wouldn't be so many being killed/injured.

Quoting SATX (Reply 30):
What about the folks who scream blood murder over a paint scratch but see nothing wrong with taking a leg off?

My property is my property, and if someone wants to come flying down between 2 sets of stopped cars in direct violation of the law, that is the risk they are taking. It is no different if someone did it with a car.

Quoting SATX (Reply 30):
If your bicycle is your primary method of transportation then you’re going to need access to the same roads everyone else is using.

Break out the violins.
 
Superfly
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:32 pm

It was only a matter of time before a Critical Mass topic would pop up here in the non-aviation forums.

I participate in Critical Mass here in San Francisco often.
I see violence on BOTH SIDES.
I DO NOT agree with these militant cyclist and I DO NOT agree with motorist that try to antagonize and plow through cyclist.

These events can get VERY violent.
On Friday, a businessman jumped out of the back seat of a limousine and just started randomly punching cyclist in the face as they rode by. Well about 15 cyclist got off their bikes and pounding the $h!t out of this businessman and kicking his ass as he fell to the ground.
The limousine driver drove off and left his passenger behind as he was getting his ass whipped.

Another occasion several years ago.
A motorist in his brand new Mercedes SL-roaster convertible thought he'd drive his $100,000 car in to a bunch of cyclist as we rode down Divisidero street.
Cyclist started to rip his convertible top to shreds and a few jumped in his car and beat his ass while he was stuck in the drivers seat.
For those familiar with San Francisco, Divisidero is a very steep down hill street going in to the Marina. This driver could have killed a few people with his little stunt/protest.

These are just some of the things I have witnessed.
I cycle all the time and I hate it when other cyclist challenge motorist.
Honestly, I DO NOT WANT full rights to a lane shared with cars. I respect things that are bigger and faster than me. Some times I will break the law and ride on the sidewalk if I feel that riding in the street is too risky.
It pisses me off when a cyclist stands right in front of my car at a red light. They need to wait on the side and let motorist go through. A cyclist can not accelerate as fast as a car.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ACDC8
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:36 pm



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 31):
And if those cyclists obeyed the law as it was written for cyclists there wouldn't be so many being killed/injured.



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 31):
My property is my property, and if someone wants to come flying down between 2 sets of stopped cars in direct violation of the law, that is the risk they are taking. It is no different if someone did it with a car.

 checkmark   yes 

- A red light is a red light for cars AND cyclists. A red light does not mean a cyclist can just go on a head through the inetersection and expect everyone to just sit there and wait for them because we have to "watch" out for them.

- The sidewalk is for pedestrians, not a place for cyclists to ride on just becuase they think its safer and then just jump out onto the road at their convience and accpect cars to yield to them.

- The correct side of the road to be on is the right side of the road, going with traffic, not against it.

- Pedistrians at crosswalks have the right of way, this includes the right of way before a cyclist.

- Unless there is an appropriate bike lane, do not pass cars on the right side of the road especially around intersections.

- Above all else, just because one is on a bike, don't assume you have the right of way all the time. You only have the right of way when you are following the rules of the road, and if you're following the rules of the road you know when you have the right of way.

The funny thing is that if I was driving my car in the same manner as most cyclists, not only would I have my license taken away, I'd probably be arrested for road rage. Yet, we as drivers are expected to look the other way when cyclists break all the rules? Bloody double standard if you ask me.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns

Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 33):
Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 31):
And if those cyclists obeyed the law as it was written for cyclists there wouldn't be so many being killed/injured.



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 31):
My property is my property, and if someone wants to come flying down between 2 sets of stopped cars in direct violation of the law, that is the risk they are taking. It is no different if someone did it with a car.

checkmark yes

- A red light is a red light for cars AND cyclists. A red light does not mean a cyclist can just go on a head through the inetersection and expect everyone to just sit there and wait for them because we have to "watch" out for them.

- The sidewalk is for pedestrians, not a place for cyclists to ride on just becuase they think its safer and then just jump out onto the road at their convience and accpect cars to yield to them.

- The correct side of the road to be on is the right side of the road, going with traffic, not against it.

- Pedistrians at crosswalks have the right of way, this includes the right of way before a cyclist.

- Unless there is an appropriate bike lane, do not pass cars on the right side of the road especially around intersections.

- Above all else, just because one is on a bike, don't assume you have the right of way all the time. You only have the right of way when you are following the rules of the road, and if you're following the rules of the road you know when you have the right of way.

The funny thing is that if I was driving my car in the same manner as most cyclists, not only would I have my license taken away, I'd probably be arrested for road rage. Yet, we as drivers are expected to look the other way when cyclists break all the rules? Bloody double standard if you ask me.

The funny thing is that over here the militant bicyclists refuse to use the bicycle lanes because they don't want to get stuck behind Granny on an old Dutch lady's bike on her way to the grocery shop. They insist on using the road, but on the other hand also insist that traffic rules do not apply to them (stuff like running red lights, disobeying one way streets, not signaling before changing lanes, weaving back and forth between the lanes, no lights at night time etc.), because they are so enviromentaly friendly. If something happens, it is always the car driver's fault.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:09 am



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 8):
When someone in a car tries to hurt me, they ARE the enemy.

You believe people are purposely TRYING to hurt you?
 
johns624
Posts: 2269
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:19 am



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
You believe people are purposely TRYING to hurt you?

When someone in a passing car throws a full bottle at you what do you think it is?
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 21):
Yes, a car does a lot more damage to a bike than the other way around--hence when you're on a bike, you should be that much more careful. It's not a car's duty to be the only responsible person on the road. It's also not a cyclist's God-given right to impede traffic and obey the rules only when it's convenient.



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 25):
I'm all for courtesy, and I'm not for random acts of injuring cyclists, but I'm never gonna buy the whole "woe is me because I ride a bike and cars are out to get me" argument and I don't tolerate some of the shit cyclists do. I drive through a busy city every single day and if I had a dollar for every cyclist I saw that endangered (i) themselves, (ii) pedestrians or (iii) cars/drivers, I could turn around and drive home without having to go to the office. It would be quite nice, actually.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you but the fact is that the cyclist always comes out second best. Offhand I can think of about five or six fatalities here in recent years, all hit and runs, it always turns out that the driver was shit faced drunk and left the cyclist to die in the road.

So puh-leeze do not trouble me with your repressed anger at strangers. You gotta realize that if you hit them they will die, and you'll be trying to tell a jury in the civil lawsuit that follows how your two ton SUV was being assaulted by militants in spandex shorts and you just had to kill one of them.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
galapagapop
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:34 am

I personally enjoy occasionally biking to get some food or a sandwich, but I still find bikers in general to have their heads so far up their asses, they are completely incapable of bringing themselves to follow the same rules as cars. I mean how can you blame them, they are after all saving the earth everyday they bike.....  Wink


I understand bikers face moronic rude drivers, but you know what? They aren't just a bikers only problem, they are an everyone who uses the road problem. I have to deal with the same morons who ride in between 2 lanes, are incapable of handling a slightly offset 4 way stop (even a straight forward one is too hard), drive slow, tailgate, and so forth. It doesn't matter if I'm in my car or on a bike I'm always proactive in watching the road for these morons, as whether they are at fault in an accident, many accidents can just as easily be prevented by thinking ahead.
I'm all for bike lanes and sharing the road, but you got to be smart, and know what can happen, rather than just thinking, your a biker and thus are descended from the heavens. I personally can't stand moronic bikers who bike on busy and narrow 2 lane roads that can hardly, if at all, sustain 2 cars passing each other at the same time, let alone allowing a car to safely not sideswipe the biker or another passing car. If a biker runs a red or stop sign, I honestly hope they get hit someday, if your dumb enough to think you can breeze through intersections (this can also be applied to life) without a care just because you bike and so forth, well then the gene pool doesn't miss you.........
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:47 am



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 36):
When someone in a passing car throws a full bottle at you what do you think it is?

I was referring to ordinary drivers, in general. It seems that cyclists often times create a division that drivers are the enemy.

But, if that's what works for them, fine, but it doesn't improve the conditions on the road.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:31 am

Violence at a left wing protest in Seattle, why is anybody after WTO surprised?

As far as the bikes, that is what the shoulder and the bike paths are for, if you ride out in the streets you take your lives in your hands.

If you insist of riding in the middle of the street, I suggest you move to maoist china.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Charles79
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:11 am

As gas becomes more expensive more and more people will take to riding bikes and/or walking. Problem is that this country's urban development has not taken into account neither bikes nor pedestrians. We should have dedicated bike lanes, and bikers should learn to use them and obey the rules of the road. All vehicle drivers, both cars and bikes, have their share of responsibility to do. What everyone forgets here is the pedestrian...I love to walk and run around my neighborhood (next to LAX) and nearly everyday either a car or a biker refuses to yield way for me (as a pedestrian). To claim that one side (car drivers or bikers) is better than the other is futile. Truth is that for all of our advancements in technology and wealth we still cannot exist peacefully in a society, we are far too egotisitical and selfish.
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: Veloterrorism - Bicyclist Demonstration Turns Ugly

Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:45 am

I think many Americans still consider riding a bike issomething for little kids in front of their houses or limited to parks. The concept of people using a bike as a form of transportation is quite "foreign" to them.

Living in Germany now for many years I really appreciate using my bike to get around the city. I don't have a car so I have to use either my bike or public transportation. The culture of riding a bike is pretty engrained in German society. Most motorists still have a bike in their garage which they use from time to time or remember the days before they could drive and know what its like to ride a bike. So it is usually pretty civilized.

However, I think may bikers tend to forget a whole group of people...pedestrians. While most cyclists obey the traffice laws they seem to forget about pedestrians. I've seen bikers knock people over because they were riding on the sidewalk, gone through red lights, ignore the pedestrian cross-walks, riding the wrong way on a bike path.

My friends laugh at me when I stop at a red light and wait or give pedestrians the right of way at a cross walk. I'm not perfect but I don't see why I need to purposely make other people's lives miserable or endanger them.
A330 man.

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