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HAWK21M
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:14 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 49):
We also have significant mountain and high-altitude warfare brigades, having fought and won wars at >15000ft altitude, and continuously maintain troops and equipment at Siachen Glacier, at more than 18000ft.


Remembering Kargil was just done on 26th July....

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
flexo
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:29 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 48):
I am sure the US forces have the same determination and the will to sacrifice as the terrorists, if not greater. The only problem is that they are not uniformed, and that they are everywhere

Terrorists have no respect for life and are willing to kill themselves in order to achieve their goals. I don't think (and don't hope) US and other western armed forces have the same determination and will to sacrifice.

The real problem is that we don't have proper working tactics against terrorist activities. The large and very sophisiticated US troops have only very limited success at fighting hidden targets and the financial expenses are tremendous.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:31 am



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 43):
Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 35):
US Military all branches train extensively even during peactime.

What makes you think that the US is the only one that train extensively ?

Never said they are the only ones. But seriously the op-tempo training required on and off deployment cycles is pretty intense and the resources availible. I work around naval aviation and the pilots fly a lot of hours participate in numerous joint exercises and many nowadays have legit combat experiance. I can't even speak for the other branches but I have seen some branches do joint exercises with the Navy on numerous occasions.

But seriously this was one of the reasons the US is well equipped. I know there are other countries aforementioned that are well trained as well.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:30 am



Quoting Flexo (Reply 51):
I don't think (and don't hope) US and other western armed forces have the same determination and will to sacrifice.

Most "professional" troops are willing to sacrifice themselves to save a buddy. That is the difference. A true soldier will not strap a bomb on and kill himself to kill others, but that same soldier will jump on a grenade to save his buddies, don't think any terrorist would do that.

As far as who is #1---the US in all areas
#2 navy---the UK
#3 navy--- tie between the French and the Indians(only a tie due to the French having more experience as a blue water navy, but the Indians are getting closer)
Being a True blue water navy is one of the hardest things to achive. The USSR was one, but has now fallen back quite aways. Just look at what the UK had to do to support the Falklands war(use cargo ships as combat ships--it worked but barely).

Dan in Jupiter
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:20 am



Quoting Pope (Reply 20):
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 17):
Yes, I find it a bit bizarre that your current administration does'nt take bigger note of this...

Particularly the diesel-electric subs which are quieter than the nuclear ones.

The Chinese have already demonstrated that these boats can surprise a carrier battle group.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html

Oh, yes, diesel electric submarines are something that one has to look out for. Very dangerous. Something that our NATO allies can testify too... Some info about the Ula class submarines of the Royal Norwegian Navy:


" The Ula class submarines are among the most silent and manoeuverable submarines in the world. This, in combination with the relatively small size, makes them difficult to detect from surface vessels and ideal for operations in coastal areas. During the annual NATO Joint Winter exercise in 2004, the HNoMS Utvær had to be disqualified from the exercise because it kept the entire landing operation at bay. It simply "sank" to many vessels. Including the Royal Navy flagship HMS Invincible. The Ula class submarines are regarded as both the most effective and cost-effective weapons in the RNoN. "

 Smile



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ula_class_submarine
 
davehammer
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:48 am

What about Special Forces?

For this I'd say the UK/US again?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:05 am



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 54):
It simply "sank" to many vessels.

"to" many, eh?

I was going to give you grief about that, until I saw the Wikipedia entry even had the misspelling!

Then, to make matters worse, the cited source comes up as....

"Serveren kan ikke finne siden du søker (HTTP 404)"

 rotfl 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:39 am



Quoting Davehammer (Reply 55):
What about Special Forces?

For this I'd say the UK/US again?

UK
Norway
USA



I am no doubt gonna get alot of questions why I have added Norwegian specialforces in the top 3, but Norwegian special forces are really good. They are just not as well known as their British and American counterparts.

In general, Norwegian specialforces are regarded as being amongst the top 5 special forces in the world, by people in the know...

But, it's difficult to put special forces up against eachother , because, some are better at jungle and dessert, while others are better at mountains and wood, and arctic / winter scenarios.

Norwegian special forces are especially good in winter / arctic and mountain scenarios.

They train regularly with British SAS and American Navy Seals, Delta Force and DEVGRU both in Norway and abroad and also work together on missions.



Forsvarets Spesialkommando (FSK):

Recent missions:

The Troubles (rumoured)
Bosnian war
Kosovo war
2001 Macedonia conflict
Operation Essential Harvest
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Anaconda


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsvarets_Spesialkommando_%28FSK%29


..............................................................


Hærens Jegerkommando ( Army Special Forces Command Sad

Recent missions

Bosnian war
Kosovo war
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Anaconda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A6rens_Jegerkommando


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Marinejegerkommandoen - MJK ( Marines Sad

Engagments

Vietnam war (rumoured)
Kosovo war
Congo
The Troubles (rumoured)
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Anaconda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinejegerkommandoen

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minedykkerkommandoen ( The Mine Diver Command Sad

Recent Engagments

Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Iraqi Freedom
2001 Macedonia conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minedykkerkommandoen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kystjegerkommandoen ( The Coastal Ranger Command Sad

Recent Engagments:

Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Front Straightening

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kystjegerkommandoen

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delta ( Special police force )


Torp hostage crisis
Kosovo crisis (Trough Special Team Six)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beredskapstroppen

------------------------------------------------------


Videos of the various forces:








 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:49 am



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 56):
"to" many, eh?

I was going to give you grief about that, until I saw the Wikipedia entry even had the misspelling!

Then, to make matters worse, the cited source comes up as....

"Serveren kan ikke finne siden du søker (HTTP 404)"

Am I to understand this as you don't beleave the information ?

Unfortunetly the source is not available. To old. It would have been in Norwegian anyway...  Smile
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:19 am



Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 53):
As far as who is #1---the US in all areas

Wow, nr. 1 in all areas...


The US no dubt has alot of manpower, experience and equipment, but to say that it automatically the best in all areas is stretching it a bit I think.

I would say that the UK has better specialforces than the US.... Norway too, to a certain extent.


( Mortyman goes to hide )
 
flynavy
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:25 am



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 19):

Good to see someone still has a sense of humor!  Smile

Quoting HAIRyBUS (Reply 37):
So China has a shitty navy as opposed to the rest of the world?

Are you freaking kidding me? Surely you must be joking.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
QFA380
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:57 am

Having a look at the expenditures listed on wikipedia, what amazes me is the differing amount spent per listed member. The ADF is ranked 14th in expenditure and 68th in member numbers.

By those listed wikipedia figures, the ADF spends more than US$280 000 per member annually. By comparison the US spends US$198 000 per member, China spends just over US$8000 although figures for China can hardly be trusted and Israel spends just over US$100 000.

By those few that I did we spend more by a large amount. Anyone else noticed forces that spend more than us?
 
baroque
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:56 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 28):
But the world is increasingly becoming a place where the force needs to be applied with a ball peen hammer.

Agree with the principle there Pope, but

Quoting Flexo (Reply 51):
The real problem is that we don't have proper working tactics against terrorist activities. The large and very sophisiticated US troops have only very limited success at fighting hidden targets and the financial expenses are tremendous.

rather than a ball peen hammer, dissecting pincers, remotely controlled under a scanning electronic microscope equipped with EDAX to analyse the backscattered X-rays is the recommended equipment.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:09 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
but apparently Israel could defeat the EU in a war

I highly doubt that... Israel was unable to defeat Hizbollah a few years ago...

Quoting Davehammer (Reply 55):
What about Special Forces?

The U.S.A.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/030131-O-9999J-007.jpg
 
baroque
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:16 pm



Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 63):
I highly doubt that... Israel was unable to defeat Hizbollah a few years ago...

The great value of not fighting a war, nobody gets to know you could be defeated.  eyepopping   no   shhh 
 
Elite
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:23 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 59):
The US no dubt has alot of manpower, experience and equipment, but to say that it automatically the best in all areas is stretching it a bit I think.

I don't think so... the US spends more money than the entire EU on defense and they are much more experienced in all areas than people really think. Being completely unbiased I truly think the US is on top of things in every area of the military.

No one really mentioned allies (I guess this is not exactly a country alliance thread) but from what I gather I think the US, UK, and possibly Israel will stick together no matter what and this is important when you think of wars and such.
 
zak
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:24 pm

certainly the klingon navy
10=2
 
flexo
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:42 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 65):
Being completely unbiased I truly think the US is on top of things in every area of the military.

Absolutely no doubt here.

Sure, some particular aircraft, tank or rifle might be better in other countries but the US troops are by far the most powerful when it comes to the whole package. That is not only due to their more sophisicated equipment but also due to their experience.

For a long time now, the US has been the only major nation continually involved in armed conflicts. This experience is probably worth just as much as all the technology and can not be matched by any other nation (at least for a while).
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Flexo (Reply 67):
For a long time now, the US has been the only major nation continually involved in armed conflicts.

Don't forget the UK. AFAIK, the only year post WW2, when no British troops were involved in any combat operations was in 1968.
I think the French are also quite close to this. Same as the British, theyhad a lot of overseas operations not published much in the press, mainly in Africa.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
johns624
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:03 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 68):
think the French are also quite close to this. Same as the British, theyhad a lot of overseas operations not published much in the press, mainly in Africa.

The problem with the French is that many of the operations were undertaken by the Foreign Legion, so there wasn't as much experience gained in most units. The US and UK tend to spread things around more.
On a related note, does anyone know why everytime the Canadians do something good in A-stan, it's always the PPCLI and never the RCR or 22d?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 65):
I don't think so... the US spends more money than the entire EU on defense and they are much more experienced in all areas than people really think. Being completely unbiased I truly think the US is on top of things in every area of the military.

No one really mentioned allies (I guess this is not exactly a country alliance thread) but from what I gather I think the US, UK, and possibly Israel will stick together no matter what and this is important when you think of wars and such.

So why is it that your Navy Seals, Delta Force etc comes to Norway to exersice with Norwegian specialforces and get beaten most of the time ?

Why is it that the Norwegian specialforces were the first ones to go into Afghanistan ( doing reconasence ). Ahead of everyone else ?

In an article from 2002, it was revealed that, Norwegian specialforces were sendt into Afghanistan, into one of the thoughest areas. They infiltrated the country, during very harsch winter conditions in the hunt for al-Qaida- and Taliban.

Using top secret methods and equipment, they managed to give allied forces life important information. The Norwegian niche contribution has gotten attention and admiration also amongst American commanders. It is regarded as a defence secret and will most likely be used again and developed further.

In an article from 2003, it is revealed that Norwegian specialforces were the ones of the allied forces in Afghaistan with the most 24 hours in and the most missions in the operating field. They were the only ones of the forces, that did not experience dehydration and had to get it's soldiers air lifted out.

With rucksach and weapons they carried a total of 100 Kg each. Water up to 70 liters weighed the most.

One of the Norwegian patrols, were put down by a Hellicopter at the wrong place. 5 minutes flying time from where the original dropsite had been pointed out. It took 48 hours of toil in steep Afghan mountains and terrain to reach the original drop site.


Article in Norwegian only ( sorry )

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=55260

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=5347112
 
johns624
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Mortyman, The problem with some countries is that as good as their armed forces are man-for-man, they aren't big enough to do anything on their own. A perfect example is New Zealand. They have a highly trained army and navy, but with only 2 infantry battalions, a small ranger (SAS) force and two frigates, they aren't big enough to do anything on their own. They would have to integrate with Australia or someone else.
 
Elite
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:34 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 70):

There is no doubt that the Norwegian special forces are very capable and well trained. However, US forces constantly train with many different countries and I am sure that many US forces have faced equally tough conditions during their missions. In the first world military many of them are very abled and very well trained but as of now I do not believe that the Norwegian special forces and/or army can be better than the United States.
 
flexo
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:55 pm

RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:36 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 70):
Why is it that the Norwegian specialforces were the first ones to go into Afghanistan ( doing reconasence ). Ahead of everyone else ?

No doubt the Norwegian special forces are pretty good, but so are the SAS, and in fact also the KSK.

What makes the difference is that the Norwegian, UK, French, German and other nation's special forces are just no match to the US when it comes to size. They might (emphasize here on might) be better than the Seals / Deltas on a one to one basis, but the difference is marginal at best. And in the end there's just many more Seals and Deltas than FSKs.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:23 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 71):
Mortyman, The problem with some countries is that as good as their armed forces are man-for-man, they aren't big enough to do anything on their own. A perfect example is New Zealand. They have a highly trained army and navy, but with only 2 infantry battalions, a small ranger (SAS) force and two frigates, they aren't big enough to do anything on their own. They would have to integrate with Australia or someone else.

The US might be capable at going at it on it's own, but when was the last time you did that ?

As New York times stated some years ago, the world has changed and the US can't nesseserely go at it alone any longer. It needs smaller nations with pin point specialties.

The new treats are so different, that nations with special competance and / or geograpic placing, can have enourmous significance.

The US major strenght, is it's capability to gather and lead.


You can read the NY Times article from 2003 here:



Who's Afraid of Norway? :

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...sq=Kristin%20Krohn%20Devold&st=cse
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:42 pm

Norway will naturally have a hard time going to full scale war alone, but that is something that applies to most nations. Also the US I think.

However, Norway has done operations far away from Norway, alone and without any support from others:


In 1995 , Norwegian specialforces were already in battle against bin Laden soldiers.


" In 1995, a small unit from the Norwegian specialforces unit FSK deployed into the Kashmir region in India, in an attempt to free a captured Norwegian that was held hostage by the Al Faran guerilla "

Unfortunetly, the specialforces came to late and the hostage was beheaded.


source: The Terrorism Research Center (TRC) in the USA


http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=1588113
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:53 pm

Double post. Please delete

[Edited 2008-08-03 08:54:17]
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 70):
So why is it that your Navy Seals, Delta Force etc comes to Norway to exersice with Norwegian specialforces and get beaten most of the time ?

Why is it that the Norwegian specialforces were the first ones to go into Afghanistan ( doing reconasence ). Ahead of everyone else ?

In an article from 2002, it was revealed that, Norwegian specialforces were sendt into Afghanistan, into one of the thoughest areas. They infiltrated the country, during very harsch winter conditions in the hunt for al-Qaida- and Taliban

Maybe the brass knew that they are use to those conditions and knew they were the best to send in. Who replaced them? Had to be someone juat as good.

As far a getting beaten most of the time, how many times has the Norwegian forces came to the US and gotten beaten in some steamy swamp in Georgia. But that is what training is for--learn what your failings are and improve.

Dan in Jupiter
 
johns624
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:17 am

Mortyman, if you were from the US, people here would have jumped all over you for being jingoistic and self centered. Norway has good forces, but none of them have a big, red S on their chest, and neither does anyone else. Everyone has their specialty.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:52 am

The Gorkha regiment & the Sikh regiment have an excellent record of valour out here.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:03 am

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 78):
Mortyman, if you were from the US, people here would have jumped all over you for being jingoistic and self centered. Norway has good forces, but none of them have a big, red S on their chest, and neither does anyone else. Everyone has their specialty.


-----------------------------

What I have said is that I think the British are the best

Norwegian special forces specializes in certain things and beat the US in some of the things

USA is'nt the best in all areas, as certain posters here claim


I don't think it's being self centered to say that and I have certainly not said anything negative about your forces.

I just think there is alot more between heaven and hell than Uncle Sam, that's all


I think it's a fair statement

[Edited 2008-08-04 17:09:15]
 
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keesje
Posts: 13827
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:33 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

I think the orks were pretty cool, you know with those weird elephants & stuff..



They don't seem to think much themselves, which is professional
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:26 am

Any government or terrorist organization that can deliver this weapon on a unsuspecting population is automatically the most powerful military force, IMO.

Big version: Width: 387 Height: 486 File size: 10kb
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:53 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 82):
Any government or terrorist organization that can deliver this weapon on a unsuspecting population is automatically the most powerful military force, IMO.

The Democratic world cannot let the wrong weapons fall in the wrong hands.


regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:02 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 82):
Any government or terrorist organization that can deliver this weapon on a unsuspecting population is automatically the most powerful military force, IMO.

Way to many countries then...
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 30067
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RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:34 pm

Terrorist threat would be mainly from the border areas of both Afghanistan & Pakistan [NWFP].
Unless that area is cleaned out of Terrorists,The danger will always exist.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bilgerat
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:43 pm

RE: Most Powerfull Armed Forces.

Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:30 pm



Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 22):
In the 80s Britain DEFEATED Argentina when they invaded the Falkland islands which are almost 7000 miles away from the UK without the help of any other nation.

Actually the UK got quite a bit of help from other nations during that conflict.

The US made an informal offer to "loan" the Royal Navy an aircraft carrier, the proposal was declined. Instead they gave us the very latest model of the Sidewinder (which US units had only just begun to equip with), anti-radiation missiles and the latest ECM equipment. The US also allowed us to turn Ascension Island into a forward staging post (the island belonged to the UK but had been "leased" to the US as a military base since WW2 I believe). The Americans also made available all the aviation fuel on the islands and continued to keep it resupplied throughout the conflict.

Both the French and Swiss governments transferred all technical data regarding weapons they had exported to Argentina (including the Exocet and various anti-aircraft defences).

The Australians and Canadians offered to send their naval assets to relieve UK naval assets in their duties around the world so those UK assets could be freed up for use in the Task Force.

The Chileans gave us up to date radar info regarding military aircraft movement in Argentina (this was one of the reasons Margaret Thatcher was a staunch Pinochet supporter during his attempted extradition from the UK - she remembered the help his regime gave this country in 1982). In fact, the SAS cooked up a plan to launch a WW2 Commando style raid on the largest Argentine AF base, to destroy the Super Etendards and then to fly onto Chile in a Hercules. The plan was abandoned as it was considered a virtual suicide mission.

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