Very Disturbing, Shocking Event On Greyhound Bus

hoons90 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:17 pm

There was a random attack on a passenger traveling on a Greyhound bus from Edmonton, Alberta to Winnipeg, Manitoba.

WARNING: The article contains some very graphic details, beware.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...bus_080731/20080731?hub=TopStories

BRJ · Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:21 pm

What the hell? This sounds like a movie! And that is some serious 'random act of violence' - makes me wonder if it was truly 'random.'

dragon6172 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:31 pm

This is why I stopped riding the bus many years ago, damn crazies on the bus!!

connies4ever · Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:33 pm

Kind of spoils the ambience, doesn't it ? But seriously, a terrible thing to experience. Just about 15km west of Winnipeg, my home town, puts it at about Elie. Usually the news from there is that the TCH is closed due to a whiteout, not something like this.

Does this means metal detectors and body searches for bus travel now ?

Almost surely some kind of mental derangement in this case.

N867DA · Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:58 pm

This is very disturbing. I guess it's hard to enjoy the "wide, panoramic windows" if something like happens! Security on public transit (except planes and cruise lines) is simply nonexistent. On the local train, they have signs that say you can't bring knives, weapons (except firearms with a valid permit), etc...but I have never been checked. You can carry enough ammo to start a small war and 20 knives in a bag for all anyone cares. Of course airport-style screening to take a 15 minute train ride is impractical and probably far too expensive.

It definitely sounds like a mental case. It's also not the first time Greyhound has had to deal with murder on the bus. Most of their trips go off without a hitch but reading things like this...whew!

dragon6172 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:05 pm

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 3):
Does this means metal detectors and body searches for bus travel now ?

If it had happened south of the border you would see some up for election congressman pushing for TSA screening at the bus terminal!!

N867DA · Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:14 pm

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 5):
If it had happened south of the border you would see some up for election congressman pushing for TSA screening at the bus terminal!!

It's nothing new on this side of the border either:

KNIFE ATTACK ON CALIFORNIA BUS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2289445.stm

FBI SAYS BUS ATTACK WASN'T TERRORISM
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/03/bus.crash/

Mike89406 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:21 pm

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 2):
This is why I stopped riding the bus many years ago, damn crazies on the bus!!

Not suprising given the caliber of most people who use Greyhound bus for travel.

Mike

Aviation · Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:42 pm

Holy furk, that is kinda crazy. Beheaded the guy is not something you hear about happening every day...

stlgph · Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:27 pm

WTF?!?!

i've heard of a lot of crazy stories in my time, but ... *wow*

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 7):
Not suprising given the caliber of most people who use Greyhound bus for travel.

that's really a shame, too. it'll make people fear of using the bus at a time when they might be depending on it because of higher gas prices.

mbmbos · Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:39 pm

It's nothing to lose your head over.

dragon6172 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:43 pm

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 7):
Not suprising given the caliber of most people who use Greyhound bus for travel.

My mom travels by bus quite often, never driven her whole life. She is a bit crazy, and I could easily see how she could drive a sane passenger over the edge.

YYZflyer · Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:20 pm

I bet this guy is going to make an insanity plea. Yeah sure

"he was holding the head in one hand" ill

connies4ever · Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:37 pm

Quoting BRJ (Reply 1):
What the hell? This sounds like a movie! And that is some serious 'random act of violence' - makes me wonder if it was truly 'random.'

RCMP are now saying to the best of their knowledge the attack was sudden and random. Perp had just gotten on the bus in Brandon, not too far from attack site.

There was an axe attack on a Greyhound in Northern Ontario a few years ago, IIRC, believe the perpetrator tried to off the driver - and likely himself had he succeeded.

The latest: http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Manitoba/2008/07/31/6318491.html

powercube · Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:40 pm

Edmonton is the home of bus murders for Canada. After all, it was just last year there was a "random slaying" on a local ETS vehicle because a man wore a Metallica T-shirt. Nothing that originates from this city surprises me any more. Yes, I am aware the crime happened in Manitoba but ashamed

MCOflyer · Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:55 pm

May the victim Rest in Peace. As for the criminal, I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in Canada.

Hunter

MaverickM11 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:04 pm

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 12):
I bet this guy is going to make an insanity plea.

Is there any question as to his sanity? I'm not a psychiatrist but I assume randomly beheading someone is not clinically "sane".

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
As for the criminal, I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in Canada

I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in America Wink

glid4500 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:50 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 6):
KNIFE ATTACK ON CALIFORNIA BUS

I actually know the Greyhound driver that got attacked...decided to leave GLI after this happened.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
May the victim Rest in Peace. As for the criminal, I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in Canada.

Hunter

Same here.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 13):
Perp had just gotten on the bus in Brandon, not too far from attack site

Theres still flaws in Greyhound security...but the searches are not as hardcore as airport security. When i used to work for GLI, there were security personel that check random, if not all, all departing schedules. The security search included body wand/patdown, and physical inspection of carry-on luggage. All sharp objects that could be used as a weapon were removed. It wasnt until after the 2nd driver attack incident ( where my friend Abel got stabbed by a passenger on board his bus enroute to San Francisco ) did the company decide to make modifications to the bus fleet. They added a security barrier to protect the driver from a would-be attacker and safely pull the bus over.

Bus stations in very small towns with no security at all is no doubt a definite issue. Perhaps maybe GLC can work with police in small towns to provide security ... by checking customers that board buses there.

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 2):
This is why I stopped riding the bus many years ago, damn crazies on the bus

prosa · Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:55 pm

As for the criminal, I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in Canada.

Two years in prison, with job training and housing assistance upon release?

WESTERN737800 · Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:07 pm

There are some disturbed indivuals out there. A friend was riding home on the bus. He said he overheard 2 guys who just got out of prison. They were talking about where they could get some crack on the next stop. My friend then got up and walked to the front of the bus.

scrubbsywg · Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:51 pm

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 19):
There are some disturbed indivuals out there. A friend was riding home on the bus. He said he overheard 2 guys who just got out of prison. They were talking about where they could get some crack on the next stop. My friend then got up and walked to the front of the bus.

great story, pretty darn close some guy randomly beheading another and taunting police with a severed human head!

You live in the city and its not unlikely you will hear about crack. Beheading on the other hand is completely different.

It is getting a lot of news coverage here as it is pretty close to winnipeg. The RCMP just finished a news conference about it.

connies4ever · Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:25 pm

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 20):
It is getting a lot of news coverage here as it is pretty close to winnipeg. The RCMP just finished a news conference about it.

Not much of a news conference as most answers were "I don't know" and "No comment" or "Not at this time". Apparently formal charges to be laid tomorrow by the Crown Prosecutor (DA, in US-speak), at which point the attacker's identity will be known.

However, it is getting lots of attention - was the lead on CNN @ 3.

Very disturbing all around. I agree with Glid4500 that security is a problem in small towns, and that improving it will be costly, which will drive down ridership. Not sure exactly what the arrangements are in Canada -- I've never noted any bag searches the few times I've used them. Intoxicated people are not allowed on, to my knowledge.

I expect the other pax will need a fair bit of counseling after this, which Greyhound has offered to provide. Also the cops.

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:10 am

there's a rumor that the guy was eating the flesh, but not confirmation of that, or many other details about this.

YYZflyer · Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:20 am

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 22):
there's a rumor that the guy was eating the flesh, but not confirmation of that, or many other details about this

OMG. I hope that's not true. vomit

It's probly one of those things people make up to make it sound even more horrible.

And did anyone else think of the band Cannibal Corpse when they read that?

Mike89406 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:00 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 21):
I've never noted any bag searches the few times I've used them.

The last time I stepped foot on a greyhound was 1994. From what I remember even in the US no bag searches. I'm sure greyhound is one of the more convienent ways to smuggle drugs, weapons etc...that seems to be the persception on the gemral population.

stasisLAX · Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:24 am

Rode Greyhound once, a couple of years ago from Tucson to Phoenix. Some passengers were very nice and enjoyable to chat with - but a couple of other passengers were injecting drugs while they sat in last row of seats.

A346Dude · Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:28 am

Shame he wasn't more head strong.

ACDC8 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:42 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
I hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed in Canada.

Thats not much, unfortunately. Wouldn't be surprised if our "justice" system gives him a few months house arrest.

Greyhound is owned by the same company that owns ours (First Bus), so I'm sure we'll be getting a memo on this. The First Group is very safety orientated and will be putting some sort of recommendations in place.

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:50 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 27):

Thats not much, unfortunately. Wouldn't be surprised if our "justice" system gives him a few months house arrest.

oh please. Our justice does have a revolving door attitude with some offenders and crimes, but if this guy is sane(hard to believe he could be after doing this) he won't see the light of day for the rest of his life and i think we all know that.

Anyways, they haven't released the vicitms name, but there is a small facebook group started as a memorial to the victim. looks young.

ACDC8 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:08 am

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 28):
oh please. Our justice does have a revolving door attitude with some offenders and crimes, but if this guy is sane(hard to believe he could be after doing this) he won't see the light of day for the rest of his life and i think we all know that.

Our justice system is a revolving door. Although my remarks with a few months of house arrest was sarcasm, I doubt he'll be locked up for good. Just in the last few months, there have been at least 2 convicted murderers who have been labeled as dangerous and most likely to repeat, leaving their MINIMUM security facilities in the Lower Mainland. Our justice system doesn't even have the common sense to hold someone who they deem as dangerous and a threat to society in an actual prison let alone something that is more suited towards their conviction.

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:09 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):

Our justice system is a revolving door. Although my remarks with a few months of house arrest was sarcasm, I doubt he'll be locked up for good. Just in the last few months, there have been at least 2 convicted murderers who have been labeled as dangerous and most likely to repeat, leaving their MINIMUM security facilities in the Lower Mainland. Our justice system doesn't even have the common sense to hold someone who they deem as dangerous and a threat to society in an actual prison let alone something that is more suited towards their conviction.

Were their sentences completed when they were released?

anyways, here is the latest story from the local paper. It sounds like Greyhound has really been treating the passengers well considering what happened.
http://winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4206568p-4798819c.html

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:52 am

there's a facebook memorial page for the victim. It has grown from 5 members to almost 100 in an hour in case anyone wants to check it out. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...6init%3Dq%26k%3D200000010%26sf%3Dt

young life cut short.

ACDC8 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:59 am

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 30):
Were their sentences completed when they were released?

No, they "left" the minimum security facilities, as in they walked away. I didn't want to use the term escape since they both were being held in very low security facilities. Both had life sentences.

Just one of the escapees ....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...-dangerous-offenders-ferndale.html

"the 60-year-old walked away from the Ferndale Institution where he was serving a life sentence for a number of charges, including murder, indecent assault, sexual assault with a weapon and kidnapping.

Ferndale is an open facility that is not surrounded by a secure fence or wall."

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 30):
anyways, here is the latest story from the local paper. It sounds like Greyhound has really been treating the passengers well considering what happened.

Good to hear, but in all honesty, how can you help people deal with something like this? It just boggles the mind.

ual757 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:01 am

WTF is this?

What is wrong with people? This story is terrible, and odd, frightening.

And may the victim rest in piece, i mean peace.
duck

Okay but seriously RIP poor guy, RIP...

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:31 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
Good to hear, but in all honesty, how can you help people deal with something like this? It just boggles the mind.

Well, in this case, i think buying them food, lodging, toiletries, etc. is a good start. IF you had something like that disrupt your travel plans, the last thing you want to be frustrated with is food, clothing, and deoderant. They also have grief councilors around in case people want to talk. I think people to talk to something good to have.

ACDC8 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:51 am

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 34):
They also have grief councilors around in case people want to talk. I think people to talk to something good to have.

This is what I mean. It's pretty well standard to have counsellors in tragic situations where the public is affected, but one couldn't even imagine seeing something like this happen infront of your very own eyes let alone being able to talk to someone about it. What does one tell people who went through something like this. I realize that they are trained for this and that they've dealt with other tragic situations before, but honestly, one couldn't even imagine.

MCOflyer · Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:05 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 18):

Two years in prison, with job training and housing assistance upon release?

Is that all they get?

Hunter

JAL · Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:48 pm

This is really scary when you consider the random nature of the attack!

My condolences to victim's family and friends.

AirCop · Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:00 pm

Quoting Glid4500 (Reply 17):
Theres still flaws in Greyhound security

This is Greyhound of Canada, a different company than the one that operates in the states. (Better equipment for starters)
Here a list of prior violent attacks on Greyhound Canada:http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3RObRdkVj4vAV6-aKQzkeC7SajA

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:33 pm

someone managed to record the RCMP Police scanner audio.

Warning, it is pretty graphic.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=096_1217580722

connies4ever · Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:40 pm

Horrible. Simply horrible.

CBC Newsworld were reporting that the Crown may determine after examination by a psychiatrist that he is too mentally warped to stand trial. Which I guess would put him in Brandon for a _very_ long time. It's not even known after the court appearance if he speaks English.

He was charged with 2nd degree murder, and I tend to think that is appropriate, since the attack appeared to come out of nowhere and the young lad happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 36):
Quoting PROSA (Reply 18):

Two years in prison, with job training and housing assistance upon release?

Is that all they get?

I assume sarcasm from PROSA....2nd degree would mean a minimum of 10 years, and in this case probably more. Could be up to 25. If he is declared to be a danger to the public I think he can be held for the rest of his life. Then again, in tghe Big House his lifwe span might not be all that long.

skyservice_330 · Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 40):
I assume sarcasm from PROSA....2nd degree would mean a minimum of 10 years, and in this case probably more. Could be up to 25. If he is declared to be a danger to the public I think he can be held for the rest of his life. Then again, in tghe Big House his lifwe span might not be all that long.

The Crown could seek to have him labelled as a dangerous offender which means indefinte or prolonged detention (beyond those outlined in the criminal code). However, I do not know what the test is for an offender to be considered for the label or if it can be applied to those who are not mentally fit. It will be interesting to see.

scrubbsywg · Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:16 pm

I have heard that there are even more grisly details that haven't emerged and probably won't, including some mutilation(besides decapitation). The crime scene was apparently bordering on hell.

YVRLTN · Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:46 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 40):
It's not even known after the court appearance if he speaks English.

Quite possible, seems to be a Chinese guy - BBC names the attacker and possible victim (according to the facebook page). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7538398.stm

alfa75 · Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:40 am

Quoting Powercube (Reply 14):
because a man wore a Metallica T-shirt

Well, there is something to be said about the punishment fitting the crime.

On a serious note, I was listening to 'As it Happens' last night, a CBC show played on NPR, and they had an account from the guy who was sitting in the seat just in front of the attack. He said nothing about anyone trying to help. everyone ran off the bus, then 3 guys went back on to see what they could do. I would think by that time it was a bit too late.

Of course I do not know how I would react in a situation like that, it was pretty scary, but I hope I would have helped if I were there.

powercube · Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:27 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 40):
He was charged with 2nd degree murder, and I tend to think that is appropriate, since the attack appeared to come out of nowhere and the young lad happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you listen to the leaked audio, you'll also learn that he had a pair of scissors. I don't believe second degree murder is an appropriate charge as it could easily be proven that if you get on the bus with a giant knife and a pair of scissors- then you kill/eat/decapitate someone is an example of premeditation. So what if he's crazy? He chopped off someone's head and ATE them. Sometimes there are acts so heinous that "unfit to stand trial" does not cut it. When you do something like that, you forfeit your humanity- a life drugged out in the rubber room is not the same as a life walled up in a solitary cell.

ACDC8 · Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:12 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
This is Greyhound of Canada, a different company than the one that operates in the states. (Better equipment for starters)

Both Greyhound Canada and Greyhound America are owned and operated by the First Bus Group. They were both owned and operated by Laidlaw up until the acquisition last September.

jamincan · Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:30 pm

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 42):
I have heard that there are even more grisly details that haven't emerged and probably won't, including some mutilation(besides decapitation). The crime scene was apparently bordering on hell.

My god, how does it get more grisly than stabbing repeatedly, sawing of the head and then starting to eat it?

johns624 · Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:56 pm

Quoting Alfa75 (Reply 44):
He said nothing about anyone trying to help. everyone ran off the bus, then 3 guys went back on to see what they could do. I would think by that time it was a bit too late.

Of course I do not know how I would react in a situation like that, it was pretty scary, but I hope I would have helped if I were there.

If you're unarmed, there's not much you could do.

connies4ever · Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:32 pm

Quoting Powercube (Reply 45):
If you listen to the leaked audio, you'll also learn that he had a pair of scissors. I don't believe second degree murder is an appropriate charge as it could easily be proven that if you get on the bus with a giant knife and a pair of scissors- then you kill/eat/decapitate someone is an example of premeditation. So what if he's crazy? He chopped off someone's head and ATE them. Sometimes there are acts so heinous that "unfit to stand trial" does not cut it. When you do something like that, you forfeit your humanity- a life drugged out in the rubber room is not the same as a life walled up in a solitary cell.

1st degree, or premeditated, murder, requires the Crown to prove there was a plan in place to kill someone, and that the accused was lucid and in control of his/her senses throughout the situation. I do not think this will prove to be the case here.

Carrying a hunting knife and a pair of scissors is not ipso facto evidence of premeditation -- although carrying the hunting knife itself is a crime if the blade is more than 4". I believe it comes under the rubric of a concealed weapon. But I'd bet Mr. Li as (evidently) a new Canadian, was not aware of that. However, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

If he is found to have been legally insane at that particular time or is now, he can be found either not criminally responsible ( but is committed to an institution for a very long time), or not fit to stand trial (and get similar treatment until he _is_ judged sane, at which point he stands trial).

One can only imagine the demons tormenting him that caused him to act out such a violent (and yes, heinous) act. Heard his employer on the radio today and the man said Mr. Li was a good employee, did his job, was decent with co-workers. So the reason then is ???

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 48):
Quoting Alfa75 (Reply 44):
He said nothing about anyone trying to help. everyone ran off the bus, then 3 guys went back on to see what they could do. I would think by that time it was a bit too late.

Of course I do not know how I would react in a situation like that, it was pretty scary, but I hope I would have helped if I were there.

If you're unarmed, there's not much you could do.

I have to say I'm a little surprised no one tried to intervene. Even a briefcase or rucksack can be a useful tool. But, as Alfa75 said, I've never been in a situation like that, so I just don't know.

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