skyservice_330
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Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:14 pm

...either financially or politically. In the US there is PBS, Canada has the CBC, Britain the BBC, Australia the ABC, among others.

Why/why not?
 
Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:22 pm

I support public broadcasting.
I enjoy listening to National Public Radio (NPR).
Pure news without any bias, slant, hype or commercials.
They spend more time going in to detail and discussing both sides of a given issue.
News is presented in a very intelligent manner as well.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Klaus
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:30 pm

ARD/ZDF in Germany. Mostly atrocious entertainment to my taste, but excellent information, in a completely different league from commercial channels.
 
Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:36 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Mostly atrocious entertainment to my taste, but excellent information, in a completely different league from commercial channels.

Those who knock public broadcasting only complain about how "boring" it is.
That is how I like my news.
News shouldn't be entertainment, it's information and I can't stand sensationalism.
Here in the United States, the worst offender is FOX news. Total bias and sensationalism at it's worse.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Klaus
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Those who knock public broadcasting only complain about how "boring" it is.
That is how I like my news.
News shouldn't be entertainment, it's information and I can't stand sensationalism.

Indeed. Commercial "news" is generally unreliable, cut-down to the lowest common denominator for ratings effect and not too rarely sensationalized to the point of outright propaganda.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:49 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Pure news without any bias, slant

In English Canada the CBC is often accused of being too 'liberal' while in French Canada it is accused of being too 'conservative'...I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder.
 
janmnastami
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:09 pm

In Italy there are three national public tv channels (Rai1, Rai2 and Rai3), four national private channels (Rete4, Canale5, Italia1, La7) and many other private channels that broadcast only in some areas. There are also two main "digital platforms", Sky and Mediaset Premium, with hundreds of channels.

Everyone who has a television has to pay about 100 euro every year, this money goes to the public television.
 
IH8BY
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:34 pm

Definitely.

Despite my tremendous frustration about many aspects of the BBC, it still remains way above the other media in this country. Despite the cost of the licence fee, when the time comes for me to get a television, I will gladly pay it for the BBC I value. No adverts, no commercial interference, no political interests at stake.

That said...
I can't stand the relentless desire to put light entertainment into absolutely every programme. Efforts to make the Proms concerts seem "less elitist" by introducing presenters who know nothing about the music are ridiculous: I watch or listen to the Proms because they are elitist - I want high quality music rather than a concert devoted to Doctor Who!
Mark Thompson (the DG) clearly seriously undervalues news, which is interesting considering that it's one of the areas in which the BBC is most respected. Why sacrifice your best offering in order to perpetuate the mediocrity of BBC Three, whose remit to create entertainment for the younger generation is sadly lost amongst countless light entertainment BBC One tie-ins?
BBC Four I can understand, as since BBC Two has gone more and more mass-market there's only one place people wanting serious programming can turn. I think the BBC is so fixed on making sure its offering is apparently "inclusive" and "non-elitist" that it's deliberately overlooking the fact that actually quite a lot of people do want high-quality informative programming that is neither dumbed-down nor patronising. Getting rid of the highbrow stuff doesn't make you a broadcaster that caters for everyone.
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N1120A
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:37 pm

I am a huge fan of public broadcasting, particularly public radio, and support the local NPR/freeform music station KCRW out of Santa Monica. Not only do they have great local, national and international news, they have amazing musical programing.
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skyservice_330
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:48 pm



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 6):
In Italy there are three national public tv channels (Rai1, Rai2 and Rai3)

We get some of the Rai stations on cable here in Canada.

Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 6):
Everyone who has a television has to pay about 100 euro every year, this money goes to the public television.

How is this program/payment administered? Is it charged back against you on your yearly tax claim? Charged on your cable provider bill?
 
janmnastami
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 9):
We get some of the Rai stations on cable here in Canada.

Really? I know there's "Rai International" for the Italians living abroad, but I don't know anything more.

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 9):
How is this program/payment administered? Is it charged back against you on your yearly tax claim? Charged on your cable provider bill?

It's a sort of tax on the property of a television. Everyone who has a television has to pay it, and the money goes to the Rai, so, even if you don't want to watch Rai's channels, you have to pay this tax because you have the television.

When you buy a television, sometimes the seller ask your personal details (name, surname, address, fiscal code, ...), these details are sent to the Rai which starts to send at your home the bill (about 100 euro every year), you can pay the bill at every post office.

If you live with your family, and for example you move because you want to live alone, you have to register the change of residence at the registry office of your town. Rai takes the list of the people who have moved and starts to send the bill, because they presume that everyone has a television. You can decide to pay it or not, but if you declare that you haven't a television and you don't pay this tax, there could be an ispection of the "Guardia di Finanza", a body of police officers responsible for tax revenues and frauds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_di_Finanza).

In Italy there isn't cable television (I'm not sure), there's analog television and digital (satellite) television.

Here you are a link about Rai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAI
 
N1120A
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 9):
How is this program/payment administered? Is it charged back against you on your yearly tax claim? Charged on your cable provider bill?

As I recall from my days living in England, those who had cable/satellite paid their license fee with their bill. I believe those who received over-the-air TV, at least those who didn't duck the fee, paid to a government agency dedicated to collecting the money who claimed they had trucks that could tell people who were not paying the fee.
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Kent350787
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:38 pm

I'm a strong supporter of public broadcasting - in Australia we have three networks captive to commercial interests, one with major government funding (ABC) and one with lesser government funding plus commercial advertising (SBS).

Governments of both sides of politics here believe that the ABC is against them, so it must be doing something right in questioning the status quo!

Kent
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:50 pm

I've supported NPR and PBS for several years. I like their programming (especially their science and news programs) and like the cool enrollment "presents" that they give me with as a long-time subscriber.  Cool
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tootallsd
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:52 pm

I love NPR/PBS and my ipod is packed with downloads of This American Life, All Things Considered etc. This is the best, most objective available long-form journalism in America.
 
Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 14):
I love NPR/PBS and my ipod is packed with downloads of This American Life, All Things Considered etc. This is the best, most objective available long-form journalism in America.

 checkmark 
My favorites are Talk Of The Nation, Fresh Aire, All Things Considered, California Report, Science Friday and the rare occasion in which I am up early enough on a weekend to listen to Car Talk.
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PSA53
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:02 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Pure news without any bias, slant, hype or commercials.
They spend more time going in to detail and discussing both sides of a given issue.
News is presented in a very intelligent manner as well.

In regards to PBS,Frontline and the American Experience are superb presentations.
However,some of their programming,especially local telecasts, is very slanted and bias and won't give equal time to an opposite opinion.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Those who knock public broadcasting only complain about how "boring" it is.
That is how I like my news.
News shouldn't be entertainment, it's information and I can't stand sensationalism.
Here in the United States, the worst offender is FOX news. Total bias and sensationalism at it's worse.

I agree with some of that thought.FOX is the worse in sensationalism,but before FOX,I felt for years,media sources were just as guilty of bias,censorship and witch hunts.It is a sad statement in saying FOX fits into nix of todays "circus" of news.
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Dougloid
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:06 am

Yep, count me in. I listen to WOI exclusively. Every radio I have is tuned to WOI. I also listen to KJAZ on the web as it is on the campus of my alma mater California State University-Long Beach. One memorable day about 15 years ago was spent putting in tomatoes in the Long Beach public gardens by the police academy and listening to the Albert King birthday special...it was divine.
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RJdxer
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Pure news without any bias, slant, hype or commercials.

Nothing surprising about that post. Except those pesky "Such and Such is supported through xyz grants from A corporation....when you need this, come buy from us.......

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Here in the United States, the worst offender is FOX news. Total bias and sensationalism at it's worse.

Or this one either.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
they have amazing musical programing.

Which begs the question, if it is so amazing, why can it not stand on its own two feet but instead needs government support?

NPR is just radio with one huge sponsor, nothing more or less. A different form of entertainment no better or worse. To say that it presents things with no bias is to deny the obvious.
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lincoln
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Thread starter):
Why/why not?

I'm going to sound like an uneducated idiot for saying this:

I watch PBS but I will not give them money. Why? Because when "pledge drive" time comes around they preempt the programming I actually want to watch and replace it with drivel like Suzie Orrman and "Learn how to play the guitar guy" -- and then threaten that if I do give them money they'll send that shit to me on DVD. (If they threatened to send it to me if I didn't give them money, that might be more motivation)

... then they extol the virtues of "quality" programming.

Back when I lived in California, KCET (Los Angeles/Inland Empire's PBS affiliate) once made a claim that it cost $x per hour to keep KCET on the air and "how much do you value public television?".

I did the math: When I figured out how many hours per year I watched KCET, adjusted for the time I didn't watch due to pledge drives, scheduling conflicts, etc. and divided it by their claimed viewership, if I recall correctly, I owed them something like 58 cents for the year. I thought about rounding up to the nearest $1.00, but that was before I had a checking account  Sad

The local PBS affiliates are much less annoying about it, to the point where I almost feel bad about not giving them money... Until Suzie Ormann pops up. I will not give money to any orginization that uses her reruns and the word "quality" in the same day.
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Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:07 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
if it is so amazing, why can it not stand on its own two feet but instead needs government support?

...because the masses are dumbed down by networks like Fox which rakes in lots of money.
It's a lot easier to be spoon fed hyped, attitude and pizazz then it does to actually listen and think about what is going on in the world. The topics discussed on PBS go far too deep for a simpleton to wrap his/her brain around.
It's a lot easier to tune in to Fox and turn your brain off.
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RJdxer
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:37 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
because the masses are dumbed down by networks like Fox which rakes in lots of money.

I was actually talking about the music. As to the news aspect, the same is essentially true, if it was really something people wanted to hear, they couldn't charge enough for a 30 or 60 second ad. Instead, it's dependent on the government to keep it afloat. BTW, Fox is satellite radio. You need to actually buy a subscription to hear it.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:21 am



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 10):
You can decide to pay it or not, but if you declare that you haven't a television and you don't pay this tax, there could be an ispection of the "Guardia di Finanza", a body of police officers responsible for tax revenues and frauds

We have a similar system here in the UK, you also pay a reduced rate if you only have a black and white television. They flatly refused to believe that I didn't have a TV though, so kept sending me ever more threatening letters, demanding that a pay a hundred and something pounds for something I didn't even have! After replying in writing to the first few, the rest just got RTS with "What part of 'I don't own a television' do you not you understand" written on the envelope.


Dan  Smile
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IH8BY
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 22):
They flatly refused to believe that I didn't have a TV though, so kept sending me ever more threatening letters,

They seem to have a team dedicated to hounding students. I lost count of the number of letters they sent me, all saying "you are breaking the law" and so on. The assumption was that one, being a student, would naturally have a television, as indeed all students ever do is watch Neighbours all day. Again, I didn't have a TV, and even when I called them they didn't believe me, and kept sending me "final warning" letters and the like.

They've stopped now, but I'm becoming a student again in a couple of weeks so I may well have to face them again. Either that or I'll actually get a telly.
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janmnastami
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:37 pm

In Italy, and I think in every part of the world, there's a legal way to stop them: you can send them a "diffida" (a sort of warning) informing them that if they continue to ask you to pay, you will sue them and you will ask money for the lost of time of sending them letters and they usually stop to ask you to pay.
 
ferengi80
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:09 pm

I am a huge fan of public broadcasting. I listen mainly to BBC Radio 4 when I am at home or in the car, and find the news, documentary, and political programming to be among the highest quality possible.

My favourite programmes on BBC R4 are Today (the morning show which covers all the latest news and politics), PM (the early evening programme which also covers the latest news, sport and politics), The World at One, which is as it sounds, and The Archers, the only Soap Opera I ever follow.

I enjoy listening to the Shipping Forecast for the most up to date weather information.

I also find some of the comedy shows on R4 to be far better that some of the diatribe on TV these days - Just a Minute, I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue - hosted by the late, great Humphrey Lyttleton - and other such panel shows are hilarious.

The BBC certainly gets my vote!

[Edited 2008-08-14 11:10:21]
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RobertNL070
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Although I'm a great supporter of public radio and television, not all commercial television is bad. Some of the background news and human interest programmes on the Dutch RTL 4, 5 and 7 tv-stations are very good quality and very informative (regularly bought from the BBC and Channel 4 and adapted for Dutch audiences) I rarely if ever listen to commercial radio, and then only Classic FM.

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 7):
I can't stand the relentless desire to put light entertainment into absolutely every programme.

 yes  As long as BBC2's Gardener's World isn't tampered with  old 

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
Which begs the question, if it is so amazing, why can it not stand on its own two feet but instead needs government support?

Because 'the people' do not listen to it. They find public radio too elitist and commercial stations do not broadcast it because it doesn't appeal to the masses. A vicious circle. The last time I was in the US for any length of time was Christmas 2004, thanks to NPR I discovered Bluegrass music and I really liked it. Would I have heard it on a commercial station in the DC/Maryland area?
Born to be wild ...... until about 9 p.m.
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Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:06 pm

Public Broadcasting can be funny at times as well.  Wink
This was shown on a local public broadcast in Los Angeles.



Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 26):
They find public radio too elitist and commercial stations do not broadcast it because it doesn't appeal to the masses. A vicious circle. The last time I was in the US for any length of time was Christmas 2004, thanks to NPR I discovered Bluegrass music and I really liked it. Would I have heard it on a commercial station in the DC/Maryland area?

 checkmark 

RJdxer my friend, it's not always about the $$money$$.
I've discovered some great music acts on NPR that you wouldn't hear on the mainstream/dumbed down entertainment channels that make lots of money.
I would have never found out about incredible artist such as Esperanza Spalding or Jimmy Heath.
Now if you find trash by Brittany Spears or Ludacris to be better entertainers because they make more money, then more power to you, Some of us still like to hear about things that get ignored by the for-profit mainstream media.

Esperanza Spalding



Jimmy Heath



My only gripe with NPR is that they spend too much time talking about global warming.
Bring back the Concorde
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:59 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Those who knock public broadcasting only complain about how "boring" it is.
That is how I like my news.
News shouldn't be entertainment, it's information

 checkmark  There's so many radio stations that have loud mouth shock jocks spouting their opinions - gets boring pretty quickly. Can't beat NPR.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
My favorites are Talk Of The Nation, Fresh Aire, All Things Considered, California Report, Science Friday and the rare occasion in which I am up early enough on a weekend to listen to Car Talk.

All of those are great, expecially Car Talk! Never heard of California Report, maybe something to do with me being in AZ?! I also love Prairie Home Companion - essential Saturday evening listening.
Fortune favours the brave
 
RJdxer
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:10 am



Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 26):
Would I have heard it on a commercial station in the DC/Maryland area?

Yes you probably could have. It would have been an AM station broadcasting the Grand Ole Opry from Nashville on Saturday night. 650 AM WSM, a 50K blow torch you can probably hear in the winter over in Europe. You could have also seen it on one of the cable country music stations.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Some of us still like to hear about things that get ignored by the for-profit mainstream media.

They are ignored for a reason and the rest of us have to foot your entertainment bill. It used to be, and still is to a degree, that college stations were where you found those artists and that was OK because somebody was learning something for the cost.
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Mir
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:18 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
Except those pesky "Such and Such is supported through xyz grants from A corporation....when you need this, come buy from us.......

Those are far less pesky than your standard commercials. It takes about fifteen seconds at the most to read off of a "NPR is supported by..." line, whereas commercials take at least twice as long, and are about five times as irritating.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
To say that it presents things with no bias is to deny the obvious.

Every news network is going to have at least some bias. But at least NPR and PBS don't narrow everything down to sound bites of thirty seconds or less. And they report on stories that wouldn't otherwise be heard.

-Mir
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N1120A
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:50 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):

Which begs the question, if it is so amazing, why can it not stand on its own two feet but instead needs government support?

Huh? I am talking about KCRW, not NPR, which actually writes a check every year to NPR in order to broadcast their programing. Further, KCRW has ratings that in put it in the top 20 in its home market, without even counting the other markets it reaches via its repeater network and its extensive internet presence.

Anyway, the whole "own two feet" argument is rubbish. NPR, as well as its member stations, benefit from the lack of commercial influence and stay in business with fiscal prudence.
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Superfly
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:51 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 29):
They are ignored for a reason

So you are saying that the artist featured on NPR such as the ones I posted above are inferior to Brittany Spears and Ludicris?  Wow!
Bring back the Concorde
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:11 am

While the English CBC Television network sucks the big Egg, the french version, Radio Canada is the number 1 broadcaster in french Canada.

Radio, on the other hand is another matter. Nothing can come close to the CBC- except for the fact the national news from Toronto is noticeably Toronto-centric and the international news is quite Canada-centric. As for the entertainment, it has excellent variety over two networks that targets almost everybody.

The Early Edition on CBC 690AM has the highest local ratings in the morning drive-to-work radio market.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:51 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
"NPR is supported by..." line,

Which is at its heart, a commercial. Especially when it is followed by the corporate logo line.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
But at least NPR and PBS don't narrow everything down to sound bites of thirty seconds or less. And they report on stories that wouldn't otherwise be heard.

Which can be even worse since at least in a 30 second sound bite there is not a lot of room for editorialising unlike the long form pieces presented on NPR.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Huh? I am talking about KCRW, not NPR

Hmmmm.....KCRW, a community service of Santa Monica College, is Southern California's leading National Public Radio (NPR) affiliate
http://www.kcrw.com/

Don't let the check fool you. Every Clear Channel subsidiary station has to pay a monthly fee to CC for programming services.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Further, KCRW has ratings that in put it in the top 20 in its home market, without even counting the other markets it reaches via its repeater network and its extensive internet presence.

According to?

http://arbitron.com/home/content.stm

Here's a hint, non profit stations don't get officially included in ratings since they are gasp subsidized and advertisers can't get frequency. Also, the top twenty of what? Cats listening at midnight? There are so many ways to parce ratings numbers that virtually any station can claim to be number one at something. I actually ran a station that was so bad when I took it over it garnered a 0 share. That's right, a 0 share. I used that in the next ad campaign. We were number one when it came to NO listeners. That's right, NOBODY listens to ----. Don't you get caught listening either!!!!! So you'll excuse me if I question a top 20 ranking in a market the size of LA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
NPR, as well as its member stations, benefit from the lack of commercial influence and stay in business with fiscal prudence.

And in KCRW's case a big fat check from the State of California since the station is a "college" station. As to other NPR stations, they get a nice fat check from the Federal Government that covers a majority of their operating costs. In addition they are not subject to a lot of the regulatory fees that commercial stations are. If I could have managed a radio station that got a nice big fat check to cover expenses there were a lot of things I would have done too. But since all the radio stations I worked for in an 18 year broadcasting career were commercial stations, we had to actually make money not just spend it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
So you are saying that the artist featured on NPR such as the ones I posted above are inferior to Brittany Spears and Ludicris?

Not at all. But between the acts, which ones have been financially successful and which have yet too? I'm no fan of Spears or Ludicris but to deny they are or have been market drivers is to say that Elvis isn't making money even though he's been in the grave for 21 years.
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Mir
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RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:31 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Which is at its heart, a commercial.

Fine, if you want to be technical about it. But the "commercials" on NPR are not in the same league as the commercials on other non-public stations.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Which can be even worse since at least in a 30 second sound bite there is not a lot of room for editorialising unlike the long form pieces presented on NPR.

And yet the major networks still manage to do it. The quality of reporting on NPR and PBS is much higher than on any of the cable news networks. Less sensationalism, more in-depth analysis, no "experts" shouting at each other, etc. Yes, they do have their moments where I don't like the way they're presenting something, but much less often do I find myself shaking my head at something on NPR than I do at something on CNN, MSNBC or Fox (which is about once per five minutes).

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 29):
the rest of us have to foot your entertainment bill.

A lot of people are footing the bill for one thing or another that someone else uses but they don't. It shouldn't be a huge issue.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:24 pm



Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 12):
Governments of both sides of politics here believe that the ABC is against them, so it must be doing something right in questioning the status quo!

Seems a fair point.

I do get a bit worried, however, about the set positions that ABC management appear to be imposing on its staff, probably needed in these days of incessant talk back, but I am not sure that personal, but declared, bias might not be better than prepared groupthink.

And on this thread, a word of thanks to all the US subscribers to PBR and PBS whose efforts allow us in Aus to receive items such as (but not limited to) "All things considered" and the Lehrer Newshour.

When will the BEEB recover from the damage done by Blair and his extremely nasty PR flack?
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:26 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
word of thanks to all the US subscribers to PBR and PBS

I forgot to mention that some of the most interesting items on Lehrer occur when "other stations are taking a pledge break". There must be a moral in that. I almost never regret not skipping over those segments on my DVD recordings!
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:36 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
But the "commercials" on NPR are not in the same league as the commercials on other non-public stations.

Never said they were but to say there are no "commercials" on Public Radio is just wrong.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
And yet the major networks still manage to do it.

Certainly not to the extent that a Bill Moyers does on PBS. Even 60 minutes pieces aren't as blatantly obvious in their bias as his. NPR pieces and long form pieces are almost always slanted with a liberal view since they know who their audience is.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
The quality of reporting on NPR and PBS is much higher than on any of the cable news networks.

That's an opinion and nothing more.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
Less sensationalism, more in-depth analysis,

When you don't have to attract an audience you can afford those traits.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
no "experts" shouting at each other, etc

And in my opinion more one sided conversation. At least when you have two completely diverse views, no matter how they are presented, you have contrast. NPR has always suffered from blandness since there is no competition for ideas. Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing AM talk show crowd suffer from the same illness. They try to make up for it through hyperbole where as NPR doesn't have too since the check is already in the mail.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
but much less often do I find myself shaking my head at something on NPR than I do at something on CNN, MSNBC or Fox (which is about once per five minutes).

Because you agree with the way they present the stories. You know what? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. They present stories in a way you agree with much as you probably like one newspaper or news magazine over another. The news is just the same, no less truth than what CNN, MSNBC, or FOX puts out, just presented differently. But to suggest that NPR does not have a slant is to deny the obvious.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
It shouldn't be a huge issue.

It's discretionary spending so it should be an issue. If these programs are all so wonderful and good, they should be able to make a buck on their own without any subsidizing.

[Edited 2008-08-15 09:00:36]

[Edited 2008-08-15 09:01:23]

[Edited 2008-08-15 09:01:53]
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:40 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
they are or have been market drivers is to say that Elvis isn't making money even though he's been in the grave for 21 years.

...another over-rated, over-hyped celeb from the past. Perhaps that belongs in another thread but Elvis only wrote 7 songs in his entire life. He was a copy-cat imitation.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 29):
college stations were where you found those artists and that was OK because somebody was learning something for the cost.

...and college radio has a radius of about 50 miles.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:42 pm

I'd have to largely agree with Superfly...


Blackbird
 
N1120A
Posts: 26503
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:31 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):

Hmmmm.....KCRW, a community service of Santa Monica College, is Southern California's leading National Public Radio (NPR) affiliate

Affiliate, not owned by NPR. KCRW is owned by Santa Monica College, which means it is owned by the people of the State of California who get to decide what to do with it.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):

Don't let the check fool you. Every Clear Channel subsidiary station has to pay a monthly fee to CC for programming services.

Um, Clear Channel owns their stations, so that makes absolutely no sense.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):

According to?

Do a Google search on it.

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache...W+Ratings&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):

And in KCRW's case a big fat check from the State of California since the station is a "college" station.



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
If I could have managed a radio station that got a nice big fat check to cover expenses there were a lot of things I would have done too. But since all the radio stations I worked for in an 18 year broadcasting career were commercial stations, we had to actually make money not just spend it.

More than half of KCRW's funding comes from individual donations and small business. Much of the rest from underwriting.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 29):

They are ignored for a reason and the rest of us have to foot your entertainment bill.

As opposed to us footing your road bill?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
agill
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:55 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Some of us still like to hear about things that get ignored by the for-profit mainstream media.

Esperanza Spalding

Well she was actually on David Letterman when I was there.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:43 pm



Quoting Agill (Reply 42):
Well she was actually on David Letterman when I was there.

That's awesome that you get to see her on David Letterman!  Cool
She was on the under ground circuit, then Public Radio and now getting discovered in the mainstream by those with good taste.
Mainstream profit driven record labels and radio stations wouldn't give an artist like her the time of day.

I do have a thread running about her already that I started yesterday.
Bring back the Concorde
 
N1120A
Posts: 26503
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:04 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):

That's awesome that you get to see her on David Letterman!

Letterman has actually always been a big promoter of small time rock acts.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
agill
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:25 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):

That's awesome that you get to see her on David Letterman! Cool

A very funny show, and she was very cool indeed. Had never heard about her before going there, but she rocked for sure.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:34 pm



Quoting Agill (Reply 45):
A very funny show, and she was very cool indeed. Had never heard about her before going there, but she rocked for sure.

See if you can find yourself in the audience.  Smile

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ms/non_aviation/read.main/1957794/
Bring back the Concorde
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:29 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
He was a copy-cat imitation.

Who is still earning big bucks decades after his death. Like it or not that's the way it is.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
and college radio has a radius of about 50 miles.

In this case KCRW seems to have repeaters on top of every billboard in SOCAL.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 40):
I'd have to largely agree with Superfly...

That should scare you right there Larry.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Affiliate, not owned by NPR. KCRW is owned by Santa Monica College, which means it is owned by the people of the State of California who get to decide what to do with it.

I believe I already stipulated to that. As to the second part, about the people getting to decide, well everyone has a fantasy.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Um, Clear Channel owns their stations, so that makes absolutely no sense.

CC stations have an operating budget. At the top of that budget is the check that is sent to Clear Channel every month that covers programming and promotional fees. This check gets cut no matter what else suffers. See, a lot of CC station don't have any talent. In LA I'm sure they do since the market is huge but in the small markets all they have is a jock in the box. The jock in, lets say Omaha, can watch over 10 stations, or more, at any one time. All he or she has to do is put in the drops (Hey this is Ricky Radio and it's [time], that was [artist] and [title]. Coming up a check on  city  weather and more of what you want to hear on [station logo line]) and watch to make sure the stations are still on the air. The CC station is paying for that as well as the national promotions that CC runs for all its stations in any given format. Or did you really believe that someone in LA was going to win a couple of million dollars by dialing an 800 number and being the 500th caller?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Do a Google search on it.

From your link,

KCRW-FM (89.9) continues to rank No. 1 among L.A.'s public radio stations, according to the latest ratings.
The Santa Monica station posted a 1.6 rating in the spring period, which ran from March into June. That's a significant increase from the 1.3 KCRW reported from the like year-earlier period.


Those ratings are from 2002 in case you didn't notice. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they've probably had a few ratings periods since then. Also, number one among LA public radio stations. In the spring 08 book according to arbitron KFI, the commercial news talk station had a 4.0 rating and that was MF12+ M-Su 6a-12a, the most generic of all ratings numbers. That's more than double what KCRW had and that depends on which numbers set KCRW was looking at.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
More than half of KCRW's funding comes from individual donations and small business. Much of the rest from underwriting.

http://www.kcrw.com/about/underwriting

Let's see, would some of those small businesses include, Boeing, Capitol Records, Sony Music, (can anyone say "payola"?) Mercedes Benz dealers of SOCAL, and Visa?

The link specifies that the bulk of its operating expenses come from underwriters but there is no full accounting available so it's impossible to see how they break things down.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:24 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 47):
Who is still earning big bucks decades after his death. Like it or not that's the way it is.

Lots of simpletons that are earning the big bucks. Doesn't mean they're good artist.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 47):
That should scare you right there Larry.

Why should it?
I don't know much about Blackbird.  confused 
Bring back the Concorde
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Who Supports Public Broadcasting?

Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:18 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
Doesn't mean they're good artist.

I agree but being good and being commercial viable are two seperate things. Cheryl Teigs once said and I'm recalling it from memory, "There are hundreds of girls a lot prettier then me across the country, not many people will ever know who they are, but I know they are there."

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
Why should it?

The black helicopters have been dispatched!  rotfl 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!

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