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B747forever
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F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:41 am

So in a week's time the TELEFONICA GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE will go off. I am really excited for this race, as this will be the first time they will drive on this street race. And as known, Hamilton has shown that he is brilliant on tracks that he never has drove on before.

However, the drivers standing are as follow:


01 Lewis Hamilton 62
02 Kimi Räikkönen 57
03 Felipe Massa 54
04 Robert Kubica 49
05 Nick Heidfeld 41
06 Heikki Kovalainen 38

I think that from now the fight for the WDC this season is between Hamilton, Räikkönen and Massa. I doubt that Kubica can make it this season, but in the future I am sure that he can win the WDC. And if Kimi wants a fair chance to win the WDC this season he needs to better on the qualifying. He has self said that he cant win the WDC if his bad qualifying form continues as it has for two races (6th both time).


The constructor standings are as follow:

01 Ferrari 111
02 McLaren-Mercedes 100
03 BMW Sauber 90
04 Toyota 35
05 Renault 31
06 Red Bull-Renault 24


McLaren has eaten up the big gap that Ferrari had, and now it is only 11points between this two teams. I doubt that BMW can do anything to this, and I see them finishing as 3rd in the WCC. Toyota, Renault and (maybe) Red Bull fights for the fourth position.

Lets hope that this time no engines will blow up and ruin someone's race. Still feel bad for Massa. Only 3laps to go in Hungaroring after a fantastic race his engine gives up. Amazing!!


Here is a good map of the Valencia GP:

http://www.formula1.com/races/in_det...il/europe_798/circuit_diagram.html

Well, that was everything from me, and now over to you guys.
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larshjort
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:00 am

You forgot the video  Wink

A lap around the track onboard a F3 racecar.

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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:31 am



Quoting Larshjort (Reply 1):

Well, thank you for that. Thought there werent any videos from this track, yet.
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bill142
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:10 am

The track looks much wider then I was expecting, considering it's a street circuit.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:06 pm



Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
I think that from now the fight for the WDC this season is between Hamilton, Räikkönen and Massa. I doubt that Kubica can make it this season, but in the future I am sure that he can win the WDC. And if Kimi wants a fair chance to win the WDC this season he needs to better on the qualifying. He has self said that he cant win the WDC if his bad qualifying form continues as it has for two races (6th both time).

All the above is because the rest of us told you this in earlier thread(s), and not because you thought this!
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BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:27 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 3):
The track looks much wider then I was expecting, considering it's a street circuit.

I noticed that too...But it does seem like a good one, with some long straights and some tight turns...It should be REALLY fun to watch.

For me...I am a pretty big Hamilton/McLaren fan...but putting all my biasness aside...(if thats possible)...

I think Lewis Hamilton will win this one, bar any major issues of course. He's seems to do really well at tracks that he's never raced at before. Last year in Canada, US, Fiji (China almost), he even did pretty well in Australia and Malaysia...and those were all tracks where 90% of the field knew the track already, and Hammy came in not having driven it. Valencia will be a new track for EVERYONE...so I think it should go in Hamilton's favor. Although, I must say that I haven't seen many other drivers on brand new courses...so I can't comment on that, Plus it has been said that Valencia probably favors a McLaren, although that theory didn't REALLY hold water in Hungary's race...so we'll see what happens.

Don't forget!...Tonight on Fifth Gear, a day in the Life of Lewis Hamilton.
All you Kimi fans  Wink, please take note, he will probably not knock down small Japanese Children....sorry.
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:09 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 5):
All you Kimi fans , please take note, he will probably not knock down small Japanese Children....sorry.

Well you had to say that, right?  Wink
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:26 pm

The track looks great, and once again I'm going to predict that Massa will take the pole or at least a front row starting spot, and take the win. I hope my prediction in Hungary didn't curse his engine to fail, and I certainly hope it won't happen again here, but I see him as Hamilton's main championship challenger and I think he has what it takes.
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:32 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 5):
I think Lewis Hamilton will win this one,

Depends on the temperatures. The McLaren struggles in the hotter races as the tyres go beyond their optimal temperature. A cooler race will almost certainly play to McLarens advantage.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm

I hope this GP will make for an interesting race without any major incidents/accidents.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 5):
I think Lewis Hamilton will win this one

I would like to see that too  angel   cheerful 

but it is the true nature of GPs to always be totally unpredictable.
Let's see what this one will bring.
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 5):
I think Lewis Hamilton will win this one

I would like to see that too

Well, he has the upper hand right now because the statistic shows that he is best on tracks that he has never drove on before.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:15 pm

Last GP: Hamilton = puncture. Massa = boom!
Next GP: we won't know for certain until the end of the last lap.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
Well, he has the upper hand right now because the statistic shows that he is best on tracks that he has never drove on before.

Would be really nice to see  angel   cheerful   champagne 
but it could be anything else.
I just hope for no major problem and an exciting race.
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):

Well, he has the upper hand right now because the statistic shows that he is best on tracks that he has never drove on before.

I don't think he has any particular advantage over any of the other F1 drivers on new tracks. They all learn the perfect line before they even go to the race on their simulations, and once they get out on track it just takes 5 or 6 laps before they're all at the limit. His results are inflated on new tracks because he's driven every track for the first time in the best car on the grid, so it makes it seem as if he has an advantage with learning the tracks more quickly. In any case, every year at every track is nearly a "new" experience for every driver because the cars are different, the conditions are different, and often some corners are changed ect.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:54 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 12):
His results are inflated on new tracks because he's driven every track for the first time in the best car on the grid, so it makes it seem as if he has an advantage with learning the tracks more quickly. In any case, every year at every track is nearly a "new" experience for every driver because the cars are different, the conditions are different, and often some corners are changed ect.

I get what you're saying...but think about the first part...yah..every year its a new experience...But think about it this way...

If a Driver has driven a circuit before...and he's got a very fast car, and he's a Very fast driver...he should do REALLY well... But a Driver who's not driven a circuit before, even if he's a good driver...in the SAME car....Shouldn't he do a little worse?

Think about it. Alonso and Hamilton drove the same car around Canada....Alonso is World Champion and Has Driven Canada's track many times. Hamilton comes out and gets Pole..and wins the race to boot...Happened more than once.
 
waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:14 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):

If a Driver has driven a circuit before...and he's got a very fast car, and he's a Very fast driver...he should do REALLY well... But a Driver who's not driven a circuit before, even if he's a good driver...in the SAME car....Shouldn't he do a little worse?

I don't think so. As I said, I think they're all talented enough that they're at the same level within 3 or 4 laps, so I think that even if Hamilton had had years of experience on Montreal, for instance, or the reverse- if Massa had never seen the circuit in Hungary until this year, I think the results would have been the same.
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:52 am

In case you'd all forgotten, there's a Grand Prix on this weekend.  wink 

After P2

1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:39.477 30
2. Alonso Renault (B) 1:39.497 + 0.020 39
3. Button Honda (B) 1:39.546 + 0.069 35
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:39.678 + 0.201 31
5. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:39.712 + 0.235 31
6. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:39.954 + 0.477 30
7. Glock Toyota (B) 1:39.967 + 0.490 32
8. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:40.149 + 0.672 35
9. Piquet Renault (B) 1:40.439 + 0.962 32
10. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:40.500 + 1.023 23
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:59 am



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 15):
In case you'd all forgotten, there's a Grand Prix on this weekend

Oh I have not forgotten! I am running around like a headless chicken waiting for Qualifying to start!

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 15):
1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:39.477 30
2. Alonso Renault (B) 1:39.497 + 0.020 39
3. Button Honda (B) 1:39.546 + 0.069 35
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:39.678 + 0.201 31
5. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:39.712 + 0.235 31

And that's how I would like to see the podium on sunday afternoon!! although I would like Massa to be 2nd or 3rd...

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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:09 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 15):
case you'd all forgotten, there's a Grand Prix on this weekend.

Well I havent forgotten the GP. Have just been busy, I am right now in L.A so I have to wake up really early for every race from right now and on  Sad
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 pm

Well, Massa got another pole this season. Hamilton made it to second and then Kubica and Kimi after. Vettel is the big surprise here who made it to 6th position. Alonso ended on 12th position, what a disappointment
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Boeing74741R
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:34 pm

Have to say I really like this circuit, and no doubt drivers will continue to be caught out by the way some were slipping and sliding everywhere in practice and qualifying; Lewis's final qualifying lap (or was it the penultimate) he slipped a bit coming out of one of the latter corners.

If there's rain tomorrow, the race is in anyone's hands.
 
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:30 pm

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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:45 pm

From some comments during qualifying, it seems those drivers in even numbered grid slots are on the racing line while the odd numbers are on the "dirty" side of the track. If that is the case, then we might see more changes than normal in the charge for the fast first corner.

I'm expecting a few tears and a few safety cars as well.
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legoguy
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:48 pm

Well Massa just looks better and better with each racing weekend. He's starting to make Raikkonen look like the second driver of Ferrari. Hamilton in second and Raikkonen in forth, thus both start on the right hand side of the track which apparently provides more grip off the starts. Should be a great race tomorrow and may the best driver win. I think Trulli may be the dark horse tomorrow.
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:48 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 21):
From some comments during qualifying, it seems those drivers in even numbered grid slots are on the racing line while the odd numbers are on the "dirty" side of the track.

I just read in the BBC chat-rooms that the grid slots have been swapped over so that odd numbers are on the racing line while even numbers are on the dirty side. Can anyone confirm?

If they have been swapped round, why wait till after Q3 to make the announcement, why not make it before you know who won pole position? It just opens the FIA to accusations of Ferrari favouritism (again).

I agree that pole should not be on the dirty side of the track, but why wait till after Q3?  banghead 
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:54 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 7):
once again I'm going to predict that Massa will take the pole or at least a front row starting spot, and take the win.

Looks like I'm half right so far, let's hope he can hold it together tomorrow and take the win! I love this track, very wide, smooth, and fast. If I were ever to go to Europe to attend a GP, this would probably be 2nd on my list behind Spa because of its proximity to beaches and the gorgeous city.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:04 pm

I rather like the idea of having Hammy starting behind Massa. It will give him more work to do, there is going to be more fighting, the race will be more interesting.

It is all so unpredictable in every race, so many factors coming into play, all will depend on weather, temperature, the choice of tyres, fuel load, pit stops and the drivers mental state/concentration. All I hope is no major problems/accidents.

Weatherwise I would not mind if it rained but Valencia is not the place for it. Let's wait 'til tomorrow. I think it will be interesting!
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flyboysp
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:57 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):

I just read in the BBC chat-rooms that the grid slots have been swapped over so that odd numbers are on the racing line while even numbers are on the dirty side. Can anyone confirm?

It's true. Check out the link.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69984
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:03 am



Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 26):
Check out the link.

Thanks.

OK, it says the decision was announced before qualifying, so I withdraw my comments about the timing being bad.  blush 
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:05 pm

well a nice and good start which is always nice
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MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:23 pm

Not a good race for Kimi! first he knocks down a mechanic (He is OK) and then his engine blows dramatically!

What the hell is going on with reliability at Ferrari!! they are behaving more like Fiats!! First Massa and now Kimi...

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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:53 pm



Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 29):
Not a good race for Kimi! first he knocks down a mechanic (He is OK) and then his engine blows dramatically!

True. This GP was a disaster for him. Now he is 13pts behind Lewis in the WDC


However a brilliant work by Massa. Glad that he won this race after what had happened in Hungaroring
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egmcman
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:05 pm

A good drive by Massa but the result may be decided a few hours after the race. Vettel did a good job for str.
 
Gman94
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:07 pm

Well we all know what would happen is it was any other team other than Ferrari breaking the rules but as it's Ferrari nothing will be done against the darling's of the FIA.

[Edited 2008-08-24 07:18:13]
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:08 pm



Quoting Egmcman (Reply 31):
A good drive by Massa but the result may be decided a few hours after the race. Vettel did a good job for str.



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 32):
Well we all know what would happen is it was any other team other than Ferrari braking the rules but as it's Ferrari nothing will be done against the darling's of the FIA.

What has happen?? Seems that I have missed something
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legoguy
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:15 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 33):
What has happen?? Seems that I have missed something

Massa was released into the path of Sutil during the second pitstops. I can not see any penalty being applied here as it has happened before and no penalty has been applied. IIRC it occured during the 06 Monza grandprix between Kubica and someone.
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:48 pm



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 34):
I can not see any penalty being applied here as it has happened before and no penalty has been applied.

Exactly, if he had actually hit Sutil a penalty would be deserved, but as it is nothing will be done, maybe a fine at most. This isn't just another "FIA Favors Ferrari" deal, as most of the Mclaren supporters would have you believe, this has been established through precedent in other circumstances not involving Ferrari. I do expect that the FIA will force Ferrari to review their usage of the pit lane light system or at least install some sort of warning system for the proximity of other cars in the pit lane, and Raikkonen also had trouble with the lights when he had brain fade and hit the gas when the yellow light meaning "engage 1st gear" went on.

Anyway, my prediction was correct, Massa absolutely dominated the race and easily paced himself ahead of Hamilton. Once Felipe gets out front, he has no equal and the only thing that can slow him down is mechanical failure. With Spa up next, a track that has heavily favored the Ferraris in the last few years, I think he'll take another big win and be strongly positioned for the world championship in the last 5 races (unless it rains and he spins 5 times  Wink).

It's looking more and more like Kimi hasn't just had an off race or two, it looks like he really just can't get the hang of this year's car and is being comprehensively dominated by his teammate. I'm assuming that if he can't up his game and beat Massa in the next race, Ferrari will be forced to use him as a 2nd driver and focus on Felipe for the title, which I would love! I think we're going to be seeing an Alonso/Massa team at Ferrari in a year or two, which will be VERY exciting! Funny to see how many fans left the track today after Alonso's first lap retirement as well...
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:06 pm



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 32):
Well we all know what would happen is it was any other team other than Ferrari breaking the rules but as it's Ferrari nothing will be done against the darling's of the FIA.

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.  wink 

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 34):
Massa was released into the path of Sutil during the second pitstops. I can not see any penalty being applied here as it has happened before and no penalty has been applied.

True, but the pitlane exit at Valencia is too narrow. Massa himself said he had to get off the throttle, so if he hadn't they would have clearly collided. If that's the case, it's difficult to argue Massa's release was safe. The fact that Sutil was lapped has nothing to do with it, but Ferrari will be trying to claim that Sutil should have given way, which is tosh.

As much as I would have liked to see Hamilton win, I feel it would be a bit harsh to take the race win away from Massa. He should get a 5 or 10-place grid drop at Spa. Alternatively, the team should lose their constructors' points from this race.

Either way, I can see Ferrari being asked to do away with their light system in favour of the traditional lollypop man.

On the whole, despite general enthusiasm for the circuit, the racing there looks as though it's going to be as boring as Barcelona.
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:07 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 35):
Funny to see how many fans left the track today after Alonso's first lap retirement as well...

Yeah, and I am sure that all of them dont like Nakajima anymore  Wink
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:18 pm

OK, Massa reprimanded and Ferrari fined €10,000.

Ouch, that will hurt Ferrari.  sarcastic 

Can't understand why Massa should be reprimanded. He was released and just went. Clearly a team issue, not a driver one.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:28 pm

Firstly a disclaimer, I am wearing a McLaren shirt as I write this shortly after the conclusion of the delayed telecast of the race here in Sydney.

But Ferrari and the FIA... there must be questions.

Whilst the tifosi may claim Massa does not deserve a penalty as no contact was made, well that was more a matter of good luck rather than good management,
The Raikkonen incident just adds to the reasons why the Scuderia should perhaps be sanctioned in some ways.

The engine question.. there is a development freeze and most teams are enjoying good if not unprecedented reliability, seems odd that the team that appears to have the most powerful engines, and increasingly so, also seem to be suddenly having reliability problems.

Perhaps the technical folks from the FIA should look into that... doubt they will though!

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Boeing74741R
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 35):
This isn't just another "FIA Favors Ferrari" deal, as most of the Mclaren supporters would have you believe, this has been established through precedent in other circumstances not involving Ferrari.

Agreed.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 36):
On the whole, despite general enthusiasm for the circuit, the racing there looks as though it's going to be as boring as Barcelona.

Let's wait until after at least three races have been held here before jumping to conclusions.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 39):
The Raikkonen incident just adds to the reasons why the Scuderia should perhaps be sanctioned in some ways.

If your comment was based on the system that Ferrari used then fair enough, but any other driver is just as likely as Kimi to set off while the fuel rig is still attached to the car whether he has been given clearance to go or not. It was unfortunate for the mechanic who got injured and hope the mechanic gets well soon.

Well deserved win by Massa, and I think the right decision was made by the stewards. The main thing is that there was no contact, no advantage was gained by any one, and it wasn't the fault of Massa entirely.
 
Euclid
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:56 pm

Massa was only reprimanded? Damn. Can't stand that whiny little idiot.

He said after the race that Sutil should have given way. Why? Lapped or not, fact is that Sutil was already on the piece of tarmac that Massa was aiming for, so Sutil should have right of way. Sutil was there first, after all. It was easy enough for Massa to overtake him on the track, so having the team wait for Sutil to pass before releasing Massa would have been no skin off Massa's nose, and would have been a lot safer. If they had collided, Massa's race would likely have been over.

Expecting Sutil to slam on the brakes because Massa was released into him almost comes down to the same thing as expecting an aircraft taking off to give way to an aircraft taxiing onto the runway.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:13 pm

Hammy did a good well deserved second place today.

Kimi smokey boom had bad karma today with the pit incident (still have not figured out that one) and the burnt engine.

Now about the MassaSutil incident it wasn't very cleat from the TV broadcast, is it all definite that Massa was held responsible? What penalty did he get? Are they going to backplace him on the grid in Belgium?
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 42):
What penalty did he get? Are they going to backplace him on the grid in Belgium?

Here you go Ma'am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 38):
OK, Massa reprimanded and Ferrari fined €10,000.

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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 40):
Let's wait until after at least three races have been held here before jumping to conclusions.

Was there a single, meaningful overtaking move after the first couple of corners on lap 1? If there was, I must have blinked.

Now, with all the changes for next year, this might be an exciting circuit, but if it's like today's race, then it'll be a serious snoozefest.

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 40):
If your comment was based on the system that Ferrari used then fair enough, but any other driver is just as likely as Kimi to set off while the fuel rig is still attached to the car whether he has been given clearance to go or not.

Assuming the Ferrari light system uses red, amber, green lights, then the on-board footage only showed red and amber before Raikkonen went. If that is the case, then this is pure driver error.

On the surface, not having a man with a lollipop seems a retrograde step. You could argue that having a man there would have prevented the Massa incident, as the lollipop man would normally check the pitlane for other cars before releasing the driver. That said, we've all seen plenty of incidents where a slight twitch of the lollipop has resulted in the driver going too soon, or of drivers being released too close to other cars. So while the human approach is far from perfect, I tend to prefer the idea of having a human controlling the situation right there.
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Boeing74741R
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:25 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 42):
Now about the MassaSutil incident it wasn't very cleat from the TV broadcast, is it all definite that Massa was held responsible? What penalty did he get? Are they going to backplace him on the grid in Belgium?

It wasn't Massa's fault entirely, more of a combination of the team letting him go early. And let's face it, he isn't going to look in his mirrors or look around to see if the road is clear when setting off.

He's got a €10,000 fine, and as far as I can see it the matter is now closed.
 
Rockson
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:56 pm

Interestingly, Massa still hasn't won a race by overtaking another car after the first corner on the first lap.
 
SlamClick
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:27 pm



Quoting Euclid (Reply 41):
He said after the race that Sutil should have given way. Why?

Because Sutil would be (and was) blue-flagged IMMEDIATELY upon entering the circuit. Sutil couldn't keep Massa behind him unless he carried a pistol.

When to leave the pit is NOT the driver's decision. It is not even the driver's responsibility to look in his mirrors at this point. It is the team decision because they are looking DIRECTLY at approaching traffic as well as personnel and tools clear of the car. When they wave the driver off he is clear to pull right out onto the pit road and accelerate right up to pitlane speed. Period. Paragraph.

The driver can see little or none of this and should never make the call. So if Massa is fined for that I'll bet that the Scuderia will pick up the €10K tab for him. And if I was a driver of Massa's caliber and they didn't I'd squeeze it out of them on my next contract. We are talking about a driver who might well be world champion this, or a future year.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 39):
may claim Massa does not deserve a penalty as

I am a tifosoid, been a Ferrari fan since Phil Hill, Richie Ginther and Taffy von Trips were their drivers. Nevertheless, I believe that the Ferrari team, and not Massa deserves a penalty. Further, I believe that Kimi should have been black flagged for trailing that bit of exhaust stack a few weeks ago. I'm beginning to believe that Ferrari does enjoy some special treatment from the FIA, but leaving the pit is still not the driver's call.
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 47):
Because Sutil would be (and was) blue-flagged IMMEDIATELY upon entering the circuit. Sutil couldn't keep Massa behind him unless he carried a pistol.

This is true, but there are no blue flags in the pitlane. Sutil had every right to stay in front of Massa.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 47):
When to leave the pit is NOT the driver's decision.

Absolutely.

Depending on which source you read, it's Ferrari that have been reprimanded and fined (as it should be IMHO).
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43713

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7579769.stm

Quote:
Officials eventually chose to reprimand and fine Ferrari 10,000 euros (£7, 981), ruling that the incident was unsafe but that Massa had not gained a sporting advantage.

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BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: European GP

Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:24 am

What does it mean that Massa has been Reprimanded...is that just like...a Slap on the wrist?...don't do it again kinda deal?

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 39):
The Raikkonen incident just adds to the reasons why the Scuderia should perhaps be sanctioned in some ways.

Mate i'm About as big as a McLaren Fan as one could be...but...This was Kimi's fault in the replay he went out before that stupid lighting lolipop went green...he was DEFINATELY trying to get out in front of Kovalainen and in his hurry...he screwed up.

I have not seen the entire race yet....but as far as I know...I think Ferrari's at fault hear..and not necessarily Massa.

Frankly...I think Massa drove a brilliant race from the last 20 laps that I saw...and he deserved to win...

But being the Hamilton Fan I am...I'm pretty impressed....Autosport reported that Hamilton was really ill all weekend...even today during the race...for him to maintain focus and still maintain 2nd...pretty solid.

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