prosa
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:22 pm

So I go onto the web site of a well-known hotel chain last night to make the final payment for our upcoming trip to SAT. I enter my credit card data, press Save, and get a notice saying that there was an error and the card cannot be processed. Going back to the card-entry page I see that I entered the wrong month for the card's expiration date. I correct the mistake, press Save once again, and instead of a "Thank you for your payment" confirmation the hotel chain's welcome screen comes up. Did my payment go through or not?

I call the hotel chain's customer service number, and a very polite representative tells me that Expedia does all their online reservations and payments notwithstanding the use of the hotel chain's name in the URL. She says they have no record of my payment's having just been made and offers to take it over the phone, but I'm concerned that if the online payment actually did go through I'd end up paying double. The representative understands my point, and says that the way the system works she cannot guarantee that the online payment didn't go through. She suggests I call Expedia and gives me a contact number.

Calling Expedia is much less pleasant. After negotiating a phone tree and being transferred a couple of times, I reach a representative who (a) has a strong foreign accent, (b) speaks very softly, (c) often pauses for excessive lengths of time while speaking, and (d) not infrequently interrupts me when I try to talk. It takes several minutes and I end up learning nothing more than I did from the hotel chain. They don't *think* my payment went through online but can't be 100% sure.

I finally call Chase, my credit card issuers, and after more phone-tree navigation and waiting on hold I'm finally transferred to the Fraud Department. Fraud? To make a long story short it turns out that when I entered the incorrect month for my card's expiration date, on the Expedia-operated reservations site, it somehow entered a fraud alert on my card *and* put a freeze on my account, preventing any further charges. All for a very minor typographical error. Between the 16 digits in a credit card number and the month and year digits in the expiration date it's not at all hard to see how mistakes can occur. Yet either Expedia or Chase, I don't know who, considers this to be an indicator of fraud and will freeze an account.

The Chase representative was able to unfreeze my account, and later today I'll make the payment by phone to the hotel chain. They're about the only blameless party in this whole mess.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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moo
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:53 pm



Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
They're about the only blameless party in this whole mess.

Actually I think both Chase and Expedia are blameless as well - one of them (probably Expedias merchant account provider) has to err on the side of caution because its them that has to foot the bill. Yes, thats right, in the case of fraud its the retailer that gets stiffed with the resultant charge, not the bank.
 
roadrunner165
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:09 am

How about blame yourself?

Seriously...

Adam
 
Pyrex
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:47 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 1):
(probably Expedias merchant account provider) has to err on the side of caution because its them that has to foot the bill.

I don't think the merchant acquirer can freeze a credit card account that is being run by the issuer.

Quoting Moo (Reply 1):
Yes, thats right, in the case of fraud its the retailer that gets stiffed with the resultant charge, not the bank.

It depends on the fraud but for CNP (Card Not Present) transactions that is mostly correct. However, as a hotel you are mostly protected, at least in this case - the actual delivery of the goods is made some time after the transaction, which makes it easier to detect fraud and identify the perpetrators (as soon as they go down and check-in to the honeymoon suite).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:26 pm

Everything turned out fine, I made a phone payment the next day to the hotel chain and the reservations are set.
What I still do not understand is why a mistake in entering the expiration date is treated as an indicator of fraud. Surely typos aren't uncommon.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
j_hallgren
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:44 pm



Quoting PROSA (Reply 4):
What I still do not understand is why a mistake in entering the expiration date is treated as an indicator of fraud.

You've got to be kidding! How do they know it's a typo and not a fraud attempt? They don't/can't so they err on side of caution, as partially bad info is almost always a result of misused cards...now had you entered the expire year as the old one that you had before, assuming it's not in past, some auth systems will allow that, as it could have been a trans done with old card.
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:37 pm

I think this thread title says a lot about how we view the world today - when something goes wrong we automatically want to know if we can blame someone else for it .

As someone whose card was stopped by my bank when someone else tried to use it fraudulently online I was grateful that they were proactive . If I , through my own inattention , made a 'suspicious' purchase online I would be pleased rather than angry if someone reported it to my card issuer .

There was a thread recently in another forum where someone had made a booking through Expedia on AZ for an international reservation and did not enter their name as it appears on their passport -they subsequently discovered that the tickets were not valid because they did not match the passport they then spent several paragraphs asking for advise as to who was really at fault , Expedia or Alitalia , never once stopping to think that the tickets were issued in the wrong name because that was the information they themselves had entered .

You would probably get a lot more sympathy and helpful advise if you started your post with the words "OK , I screwed up , now can anyone offer me helpful advise ?" Speaking from experience I can say that it has worked well for me in the past when I have screwed up
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:51 pm

Look at it this way - when you enter credit card data you have to enter 16 digits in the card number, a two-digit month of expiration, a two- or four-digit year of expiration, and sometimes a three-digit security code from the back of the card. That's as many as 25 digits. Certainly, it's not hard to see how mistakes happen. I simply do not believe that a simple, immediately corrected error should be a sign of fraud that immediately invalidates the card for all further transactions.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
swiftski
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:54 pm



Quoting PROSA (Reply 7):
Look at it this way - when you enter credit card data you have to enter 16 digits in the card number, a two-digit month of expiration, a two- or four-digit year of expiration, and sometimes a three-digit security code from the back of the card. That's as many as 25 digits. Certainly, it's not hard to see how mistakes happen.

Not if you can read.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:03 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 1):

Actually I think both Chase and Expedia are blameless as well

 checkmark 

Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 2):
How about blame yourself?

 checkmark 

Quoting PROSA (Reply 7):
Look at it this way - when you enter credit card data you have to enter 16 digits in the card number, a two-digit month of expiration, a two- or four-digit year of expiration, and sometimes a three-digit security code from the back of the card. That's as many as 25 digits. Certainly, it's not hard to see how mistakes happen.

So write to your credit card company and tell them that in the future, no matter what, if they suspect fraud, they are NOT to put a hold on your account, and that you'll gladly pay all charges whether they're fraudulent or not. That should solve your problem....

Or learn to type...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
prosa
Topic Author
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:55 am

I am very disturbed to see how sanctimonious some of the prior comments have been. Wake up people, IT WAS A MINOR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR THAT ANYONE COULD MAKE. There was no reason whatsoever for Chase to put a "fraud hold" on the card, especially considering that I immediately re-entered the information with the correct expiration date. Be reasonable.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
swiftski
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:56 am



Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):
Be reasonable

Back at you PROSA.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 9):
So write to your credit card company and tell them that in the future, no matter what, if they suspect fraud, they are NOT to put a hold on your account, and that you'll gladly pay all charges whether they're fraudulent or not. That should solve your problem.

Exactly.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:15 pm



Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):
I am very disturbed to see how sanctimonious some of the prior comments have been. Wake up people, IT WAS A MINOR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR THAT ANYONE COULD MAKE.

Sanctimonious hell... You should pay attention when you're putting a credit card number into cyberspace. It was YOUR mistake, nobody else's.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):
Be reasonable.

We are being reasonable... why aren't you??
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
roadrunner165
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):
I am very disturbed to see how sanctimonious some of the prior comments have been. Wake up people, IT WAS A MINOR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR THAT ANYONE COULD MAKE.

See, even you admit you're at fault. I jokes!

This thread needs to die.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:27 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 12):
Sanctimonious hell... You should pay attention when you're putting a credit card number into cyberspace. It was YOUR mistake, nobody else's.

I love how you people expect perfection. Tell you what, next time you make a typo, ANY typo, I want you go to and listen to some Barry Manilow for 3 hours. That's about how long it takes to de-fraud a credit card with Chase.

Due to Chase's "security," I still have an open account with $216 dollars of MY money that they will not relinquish to me unless I walk into a Chase bank. Problem is that the nearest Chase is over 700 miles from where I live. So if they have my money and they won't give it up, isn't that larceny?

I think it is. But it would cost me more to hire a lawyer and pursue a legal avenue than the account is worth. So next time I am near a chase, I am getting my money out.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
MaidensGator
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:37 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
I love how you people expect perfection. Tell you what, next time you make a typo, ANY typo, I want you go to and listen to some Barry Manilow for 3 hours. That's about how long it takes to de-fraud a credit card with Chase.

It's not about ANY typo... There are certain times you just should not make an error like that or you'll pay dearly. How about you when you're at the hospital? What if you mean to type 5 mg but instead prescribe 50 mg of the sedative for the kid? You just tell the parents "you can't expect perfection?"
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:07 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 15):
It's not about ANY typo... There are certain times you just should not make an error like that or you'll pay dearly.

Incorrect. You should be permitted to make a typo once or twice.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 15):
What if you mean to type 5 mg but instead prescribe 50 mg of the sedative for the kid?

Most electronic order entry systems have dosage alarms built in. If you over or under-dose a patient, then it warns you to double-check.

I wish it on you, Gator. I wish a three-hour battle with a bank over a slip of a finger on you.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
MaidensGator
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RE: I Don't Know Whether To Blame Expedia Or Chase

Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 15):
It's not about ANY typo... There are certain times you just should not make an error like that or you'll pay dearly.

Incorrect. You should be permitted to make a typo once or twice.

Of course you're permitted... you just have to pay the consequences...  Big grin

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 15):
What if you mean to type 5 mg but instead prescribe 50 mg of the sedative for the kid?

Most electronic order entry systems have dosage alarms built in. If you over or under-dose a patient, then it warns you to double-check

But mistakes do happen, and sometimes they kill people...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/07/09/heparin.babies/index.html

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I wish it on you, Gator. I wish a three-hour battle with a bank over a slip of a finger on you

Chill out Doc, I didn't defend the bank. I'm just pointing out that in this day and age, with so much of our lives intertwined with computers, you have to be very damned careful what you type and send out to cyberspace. I'd be especially careful if my credit card number was involved. But if I do make the mistake, I'm not going to go on a rant blaming others for it...  Cool
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

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