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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:57 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 48):
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 46):
btw, when hammy passes Kimi the first time, was it a 100% legal move?

It would have been Illegal....If Hamilton would have taken the place...but he gave it back to Raikkonen

The issue is under investigation by FIA.

It starts to get pretty ennoying to see Anthony Hamilton in the garage at every damn race! I mean, can't he just stand at the back of the garage and watch race on a monitor now and then!

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Sudden
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:57 pm

Holy Moses! What a race!!
I knew he would get Kimi in the end. The way he got him out was simply unbelievable!
I was simply... mesmerized.  blockhead 

Hamilton is my hero!!  angel   cheerful   cloudnine   champagne 
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withak
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Wasn't Kimi's car still causing a yellow flag on parts of the track? Does anyone think Heidfeld or Alonso could have some troubles with this after the dust settles? With all the confusion in the final lap it would have been an easy mistake to make.
 
davehammer
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:03 pm



Quoting WithaK (Reply 52):
Wasn't Kimi's car still causing a yellow flag on parts of the track? Does anyone think Heidfeld or Alonso could have some troubles with this after the dust settles? With all the confusion in the final lap it would have been an easy mistake to make.

There was so much all over the place that it will be difficult to make sense of what happened without effectively rendering most of the race null and void. With the Hamilton Raikkonen incident there was the Williams that caused both of them to swerve out the way and on the final lap, well all hell was let loose.

Congratulations to Hamilton though! That kid sure has balls.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:30 pm

I felt there was so much pressure on all sides. Not an easy race and it looked so incredibly fast all along especially the first 3 drivers, that and the pressure.
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baroque
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:39 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 51):
Hamilton is my hero!!

I would never have guessed, MC!  angel   angel   bigthumbsup 

But since you obviously script these things, could you just tone down a bit on the suspense. A few races ago, it was too boring, this was so exciting I am still trying to work out what happened, we are only just after the second pit stop on the TV, and I followed it semi-live on BBC while trying to cook dinner.

Gotta go back and see what happens in the past. Grrrr!
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:46 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 50):
It starts to get pretty ennoying to see Anthony Hamilton in the garage at every damn race!

He, he. So I am not the only one that notice that too.

Quoting Sudden (Reply 49):
Kimi will most likely have to play the second driver for the rest of the season

True. He is 23points after Hamilton now. Massa is only 7.
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:01 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 39):
Which means that Ferrari are hitting the right notes in terms of reliability

Two blown engines in two races is "hitting the right notes"?  confused 
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flyboysp
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:01 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 50):
Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 48):
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 46):
btw, when hammy passes Kimi the first time, was it a 100% legal move?

It would have been Illegal....If Hamilton would have taken the place...but he gave it back to Raikkonen

The issue is under investigation by FIA

I cant honestly see why Hamilton is under investigation. There were a few bumps between them, and when Hamilton cut the chicane, he gave the position back to Kimi as he was required to do.

I'm more curious as to how for ahead and for how long, it is ,to be considered as giving back a position.
#proudtobeabulldog
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Wow, an amazing race. All action at the start, steady middle, then chaos in the last 3 laps. I lost count how many times the lead changed in those last couple of laps.

Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 57):
I cant honestly see why Hamilton is under investigation.

Er, because he's driving a McLaren?  duck 

I agree, I can't see he did anything wrong - he clearly eased off in the start/finish straight to let Raikkonen re-take the lead. The fact he then immediately nailed Raikkonen in to La Source is beside the point - he dutifully relinquished the lead he'd gained "unfairly". I would think McLaren will defend him very vigorously (if the stewards decide to punish him).

Had Raikkonen had a 3 car-length lead when Hamilton cut the chicane, I could understand they might say he gained an unfair advantage, but the fact was, going in to the chicane, they were side by side. Hamilton then let Raikkonen through and fell immediately in to his tracks before taking the inside line at La Source (I'm surprised Raikkonen left the gap there).

I can't see he did anything wrong. no 
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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:17 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 51):
I knew he would get Kimi in the end. The way he got him out was simply unbelievable

How would you even be able to think that he would get Kimi in the end as he was controling the race!? Everytime Hamilton set fastest lap, Kimi answered with another fastest lap.
Second point, Hamilton didn't "get anyone out" as Kimi screwed up, big time I might add, which allowed Hamilton to take the win.

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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:33 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 59):
I can't see he did anything wrong

He didn't as he gave the position back right away, end of story.

Kimi might just want to make it a bit more interesting then last year as at this point 2007 he was 17 points behind.
And therefore he basically parked the car a bit to close to the wall!?
I would for sure say that he is out of the WDC race now, but F1 have shown the most crazy stuff happen when things seem to be settled, so I wont say anything yet.

Hamilton could more or less have settled for second place and still leave Spa with an even bigger advantage. Kimi on the other hand had to keep Hamilton behind him as he had everything to loose. And he sure lost it all!

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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:42 pm

Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 57):
I cant honestly see why Hamilton is under investigation.

From what I've read, *both* Hamilton and Raikkonen are under investigation - not just Hamilton.

Here is what Ron Dennis has to say on the matter:

Quote:

“First of all we don’t know what the investigation is about,” he told Ted Kravitz.

“One assumes it is for the incident between Kimi and Lewis at the chicane.

“I think, first of all, Lewis was ahead at the chicane and he got pushed wide and he definitely was in the lead coming out of the chicane.

“We immediately radioed him to let Kimi past, he let Kimi past and then overtook him again before the line.

“Inevitably we wanted to know whether we had actually that was deemed to be correct – we checked with Charlie [Whiting] and of course Charlie can only give an opinion because he is not the stewards.

“But he gave the opinion that we had probably complied to the regulations.”

...

Dennis is hopeful that the stewards will not hand out any retrospective punishment as he is confident the team followed the rules.

“Charlie is of course a very important opinion to have,” he added.

“We wanted to make sure we had complied to the regulation and let Kimi back into the lead and taken the lead again, and like I said the answer was ‘yes’.

“But it is for the stewards to decide, so hopefully looking at the facts they will come to the same conclusion.”

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43849

[Edited 2008-09-07 08:48:04]
 
baroque
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:02 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 62):
Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 57):
I cant honestly see why Hamilton is under investigation.

From what I've read, *both* Hamilton and Raikkonen are under investigation - not just Hamilton.

You might think that the car that seemed not to have any front wings before meeting some concrete going in the opposite direction, just might have more questions to answer than the other one that still seemed to have its wings. Now how did that happen?
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:11 pm

According to BBC news Hamilton has been stripped of his win. Arse.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:19 pm



Quote:

McLaren's Lewis Hamilton was stripped of a dramatic victory in the Belgian Grand Prix after stewards handed him a 25-second post-race penalty.

The Englishman was demoted to third place behind Ferrari's Felipe Massa and BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7602830.stm

Thats it, I've had it with F1. Thats one of the harshest penalties they have given out.
 
Gman94
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:31 pm

Absolute nonsense by the FIA, Ferrari come out on top as usual. Hamilton let Raikkonen back passed and then overtook him again. I'm sure there will be an appeal by McLaren but as they are not the evil red machine will probably get deducted 50 points for questioning the FIA.
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:32 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 65):
Thats it, I've had it with F1.

I just heard it on the radio. Utterly ridiculous.

He got a drive through penalty when he did not concede a place before and gets the equivalent in time when he did. What the hell gives here?

Lets add the fact that the driver who allegedly suffered the injustice managed to hit a wall and did not score. Any Ferrari fans wish to enlighten us?
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:33 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 65):
Quote:

McLaren's Lewis Hamilton was stripped of a dramatic victory in the Belgian Grand Prix after stewards handed him a 25-second post-race penalty.

The Englishman was demoted to third place behind Ferrari's Felipe Massa and BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7602830.stm

Thats it, I've had it with F1. Thats one of the harshest penalties they have given out.

Oh... this is awful... It seems so unfair! Can't McLaren appeal the decision?

Where will he stand in the championship now? I guess this will take some off his points off?
I bet all the Ferrari buffs are rejoicing.

I hate them stewards!!
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:33 pm

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43853

Quote:
Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during his wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead with Kimi Raikkonen during the closing laps.

No! This is a joke, the race was decided fairly on the track.  banghead 

That's an appalling decision by the stewards. I really hope McLaren appeal it and it's overturned.
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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:37 pm



Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 68):
He got a drive through penalty when he did not concede a place before and gets the equivalent in time when he did. What the hell gives here?

The issue is that he *did* concede the place back, and the race director confirmed that that was probably all that was necessary.

This penalty is off the back of deliberations by the stewards, not the FIA rules.

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 68):
Lets add the fact that the driver who allegedly suffered the injustice managed to hit a wall and did not score.

Well thats his own bloody fault. Remember, it was Raikkonen that suffered damage through forcing Hamilton off the track and onto the chicane escape road.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 70):
The issue is that he *did* concede the place back

Absolutely Moo. He got a drive through in France for not conceding a place and is penalised for conceding a place? What the bloody hell did these stewards see?

Quoting Moo (Reply 70):
Well thats his own bloody fault

We should also remember that Raikkonen also regained the lead after this 'injustice' and still managed to find a concrete wall.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
mhodgson
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:52 pm

What a joke - what has Hamilton supposed to do; follow Raikkonen round in a nice procession? Considering Raikkonen DID get the place back again when the Williams spun in front of them both (before the Ferrari spun terminally), it would indicate that no decisive advantage was gained.

What rubbish from the FIA.
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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:57 pm



Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 72):
What a joke - what has Hamilton supposed to do; follow Raikkonen round in a nice procession? Considering Raikkonen DID get the place back again when the Williams spun in front of them both (before the Ferrari spun terminally), it would indicate that no decisive advantage was gained.

Its worth noting that that was not when Raikkonen got the place back - Hamilton gave the place back after the chicane voluntarily, and he was passed again by Hamilton after that and before Hamilton spun out.
 
Alessandro
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:09 pm

Glock lost his point as well. F1 is politics....
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baroque
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:10 pm

What was Kimi doing to lose his front wings. Crashing into the back of Hamilton is what as far as I could see. But that is OK. Racing incident of course. Just as much as Kovaleinen's was.

Quoting Moo (Reply 65):
Thats it, I've had it with F1. Thats one of the harshest penalties they have given out.

Agreed in spades.
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:15 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 75):
Glock lost his point as well

Glock was penalised for passing under a yellow. That was a clear infraction.

Hamilton was docked for doing the opposite of what he was penalised for doing in France.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
na
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:22 pm

I think that the penalty is too harsh.
It was not all fair what Hamilton did towards the end, and luck comes to it, too, but if anything they should have punished him by putting him 10 places down the grid next time or something like that. Lewis lost last years championship because of bad luck, and today leads because bad luck is hitting Ferrari this year.
Hamilton brutally overtook Raikonnen by risking and causing a collision and clearly to see he only won because his car reacted better to the starting rain as seen before this season, but still... To take away a victory he luckily gained on the track without a grave foul is too strong in my opinion. I have seen the race but haven´t seen anything that justifies stripping him of his win, not even the manouvre besides the track that in the opinion of the stewards obviously put him ahead of Raikonnen.

This for sure will cause some uproar.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:25 pm



Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 76):
Hamilton was docked for doing the opposite of what he was penalised for doing in France.

I still can't understand the stewards logic.

 Sad  Confused

Where is he at with the points after the "punishment"?
Will McLaren be able to appeal the stewards decision?
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scrubbsywg
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:47 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 78):
Where is he at with the points after the "punishment"?
Will McLaren be able to appeal the stewards decision?

hamilton 76
mass 74

and of course they will appeal
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:52 pm

so the driver standings look like this now;

Hamilton 76

Massa 74

Only 2pts as from the original 8pts between Hamilton/Massa



I wonder if Kimi will have to play the second driver from now on in Ferrari??
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sandrozrh
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:57 pm

heidfeld pitting in the second last lap and getting third place with new tires sure was the "play of the day" (as they call it on CNN).  rotfl   rotfl 

But i guess with all the crap happening up front, people didnt even notice.
 
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SAS A340
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:14 pm

This is a big pile of crap!!! What was he supposed to do? Fly?? He did let him pas right? Ferrari always make it,one way ore another!!!  Angry  Angry  biting   redflag   talktothehand 
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photopilot
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:15 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 70):
Remember, it was Raikkonen that suffered damage through forcing Hamilton off the track and onto the chicane escape road.

Excuse me, but Kimi had the "Racing Line" through the bustop chicane. It is up to Hamilton to find a way around Kimi and on the second half of the chicane Hamilton tried to force his way around while Kimi did NOTHING but keep to the racing line as is his right. Thus the error is clearly Hamilton's who could not have completed the pass with Kimi on the line.
Had Hamilton given away to Kimi's line (as the rules clearly state he must do) Hamilton would have trailed Kimi out of the chicane by several car lengths. Buy Hamilton accellerating beside Kimi down the straight, then briefly ducking in behind Kimi and right back out again, he gained an advantage which is why the stewards rightfully gave the 25 second penalty.
Hamilton effectively gained one or two car lengths by cutting the corner and that's why there is the penalty.

Pretty simple actually if you don't let your Lewis worship get in the way of rational thought.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:19 pm



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 82):

Pretty simple actually if you don't let your Lewis worship get in the way of rational thought.

I don't have 'Lewis worship' - I just don't hate him...

Ferrari is not gods gift to Formula One.
 
Gman94
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:27 pm



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 82):
Buy Hamilton accellerating beside Kimi down the straight, then briefly ducking in behind Kimi and right back out again, he gained an advantage which is why the stewards rightfully gave the 25 second penalty.
Hamilton effectively gained one or two car lengths by cutting the corner and that's why there is the penalty

Er no. Hamilton letting Raikkonen back past meant that he would of had to of slowed his place. The reason that Hamilton overtook Raikkonen at the next turn is because Raikkonen can't hold a candle to Hamilton when it comes to wet weather driving. The penalty is utterly ridiculous to be dropped to third place when Massa or Heidfeld were not involved in the incident just shows complete bias in Formula 1 in favour of Ferrari.
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TristarAtLCA
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 82):
Pretty simple actually if you don't let your Lewis worship get in the way of rational thought.

Thats funny, it really is.  no 

What happened after Hamilton let Raikkonen pass is not the issue of the penalty. Oddly enough, if Raikkonen had maintained the racing line into the hairpin rather than perform a sharp defensive move to the outside allowing Hamilton through, he would still have had the lead.
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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 70):
Well thats his own bloody fault. Remember, it was Raikkonen that suffered damage through forcing Hamilton off the track and onto the chicane escape road

Forcing!? That's racing right there, and you can be sure that Hamilton, Alonso, Kova, Rosberg etc. etc. would have done just the same thing!
Kimi didn't suffer any damage for that incident in the chicane, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

This verdict was by no way justified if you ask me. I am not a steward, but I don't really see what he got punished for in the first place.
After he gave the place back, he was all over Kimi using his slipstream. Not sure if that is the reason. In either case, they should have let him keep the points as Kimi crashed out anyway.

The WDC takes a whole other turn now, and we might see totally different things happen from now on then we were actually prepared to see after the flag dropped today.

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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:38 pm

McLaren have announced they intend to appeal the decision.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7602830.stm

Quote:
McLaren announced that they intend to appeal the stewards' decision.

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LTU932
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 69):
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43853

Quote:
Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during his wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead with Kimi Raikkonen during the closing laps.

No! This is a joke, the race was decided fairly on the track.

That's an appalling decision by the stewards. I really hope McLaren appeal it and it's overturned.

This somehow proves what F1 has become. It has become not only politics, but also boring. Unless there is rain, a race is decided by the time the third qualifying round ends. McLaren should appeal it.

They were fighting for first place, and the cutting of the chicane was unintentional for it happened in the heat of the battle. Jesus Christ, Max, why are you so keen on making F1 more boring than it already is, by hiring stewards who fear that even the slightest of contacts could cause a fatality. This isn't 1994, when Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna died.
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 88):
McLaren have announced they intend to appeal the decision.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...0.stm

Of course they will appeal this. They will never just let this go. But I doubt that any change to this punishment will happen
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mhodgson
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:27 pm



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 82):
Buy Hamilton accellerating beside Kimi down the straight, then briefly ducking in behind Kimi and right back out again, he gained an advantage which is why the stewards rightfully gave the 25 second penalty.

But Hamilton still lost momentum as he would have had to let off the accelerator - Kimi could have just steamed on. But because of the conditions he couldn't; and Lewis felt that he could. They were lapping 30 seconds slower in the wet; so should Lewis just have sat behind him, refusing to take the initiative?
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astuteman
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RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 48):
I'm still trying to get over it...Mixed Emotions...I would have rather Kimi won then Massa getting Second....But...those last few laps...will go down in History...in Complete History.

They certainly will given the subsequent decision..  Yeah sure

Quoting Moo (Reply 65):
Thats it, I've had it with F1

Me too. It's a bloody circus. Driver skill? Who gives 2 f**ks?  banghead 

Quoting TristarAtLCA (Reply 68):
Lets add the fact that the driver who allegedly suffered the injustice managed to hit a wall and did not score

Ah, but does it add to the circus?

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 85):
The reason that Hamilton overtook Raikkonen at the next turn is because Raikkonen can't hold a candle to Hamilton when it comes to wet weather driving.

Absolutely true 100%.
But sadly that means absolutely nothing in the dark farce that F1 has become in the last 12 months....
Now. If he were better on the flying trapeze....  scratchchin 

Rgds
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:57 pm

That was a fantastic final laps of the race with everything changing like on a roulette. When it looked like finally Kimi was going to get a win... bad luck for him.

Lewis was chasing all the time. That chicane cut.... he let Kimi pass through but maybe he should have stayed behind and attack after Turn 1 ? Who knows? Strange decision, really strange. Similar with the one for Kova. Looks like the stewards don't 'like' McLaren this year.

Nicky finally drove something of a race, but that 12.3 s pit-stop number two for Kubica stinks for me. Like 2 seconds too long, and after the stop coming out and dropping from 4th to 8th ? Conspiracy theory here. Good drives from Bourdais (surprise driver of the weekend) for me and Vettel. Alonso also drove a good race. Toyotas weren't that strong in Spa and the Red Bulls too.

KS/codeshare
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Boeing74741R
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 56):
He, he. So I am not the only one that notice that too.

Pleased to read that the Hamilton Hype is prevalent outside of the UK, saved me from going insane.  Smile

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 58):
Two blown engines in two races is "hitting the right notes"? confused

I was referring to Ferrari's otherwise excellent reliability record versus other team's cars, and it was in response to a bitter fan who is jealous of Ferrari's near-invincibility when it comes to reliability.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 82):
Excuse me, but Kimi had the "Racing Line" through the bustop chicane. It is up to Hamilton to find a way around Kimi and on the second half of the chicane Hamilton tried to force his way around while Kimi did NOTHING but keep to the racing line as is his right. Thus the error is clearly Hamilton's who could not have completed the pass with Kimi on the line.
Had Hamilton given away to Kimi's line (as the rules clearly state he must do) Hamilton would have trailed Kimi out of the chicane by several car lengths. Buy Hamilton accellerating beside Kimi down the straight, then briefly ducking in behind Kimi and right back out again, he gained an advantage which is why the stewards rightfully gave the 25 second penalty.
Hamilton effectively gained one or two car lengths by cutting the corner and that's why there is the penalty.

Pretty simple actually if you don't let your Lewis worship get in the way of rational thought.

I thank you for providing the first unbiased opinion of the situation today.

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 85):
The penalty is utterly ridiculous to be dropped to third place when Massa or Heidfeld were not involved in the incident just shows complete bias in Formula 1 in favour of Ferrari.

Where is the proof or are you just bitter that it went Ferrari's way?  Yeah sure

Quoting B747forever (Reply 90):
Of course they will appeal this. They will never just let this go. But I doubt that any change to this punishment will happen

Another hurdle for McLaren is whether they can actually appeal. The penalty given to Lewis was because under normal circumstances he would've been given a stop-and-go penalty, and 25-seconds is how long it takes to carry out a stop-and-go penalty. And the sticking point here is that you can't appeal against a stop-and-go penalty once it has been given and carried out...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70404
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm

This is just getting embarassing. Why doesn't the FIA just declare Ferrari to be the all-time grand champion of the universe at all sports including those yet uninvented, and we can have done with all these pointless races.

Then there was the race where Kimi was allowed to drive around intefinitely with a piece of metal exhaust pipe dangling by a fraying wire, an object that could kill another driver or course worker and no black flag.

Not to mention the infamous "Doctor Evil fine" against McLaren which many view as an undisguised attempt to drive Ferarri's only real competition out of the sport altogether.

It is starting to remind me of the 1933 Tripoli Grand Prix anymore.
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/trip1933.htm


How about we let the 2009 "season" consist of nothing more than spectators paying beaucoup €€€ just to watch Ecclestone and his buttkissers sit around and make up rules! Yeah, there's something I'd pay big sponsoship bucks to promote!

Sad.

I've been a Ferrari fan since a relative bought one in 1960 and I started paying attention to the sport. But this is just a disgrace.

To top it off, the stewards are just flat wrong - stupid wrong in fact and here's why.

No quarrel about the need for Hamilton to give back the position but the sporting regs don't say how long he has to stay behind Kimi. The stewards wrongly claimed that Hamilton "used his momentum" from straightlining the chicane to overtake Kimi. What is wrong about that? Simple. Kimi had the racing line through the second half of the chicane and THE ENTIRE LENGTH of the front straight to accelerate to his braking point for La Source Hamilton drove back out on the circuit at some point past the chicane exit then COULD NOT ACCELERATE until Kimi had passed. Think of it as a drag race from a point some unspecified distance from the La Source braking point. They are more or less traversing the same distance but Kimi is allowed to accelerate the whole distance and Hamilton was only allowed to accelerate after Kimi was safely past him.

Momentum favored Kimi all the way!

From the point when Kimi was fully in front of Hamilton again it was a motor race - except for the rulemaking body which will do anything to give Ferrari unmerited advantage.

Jesus, Ecclestone, don't make me go back to watching Indy Cars!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5066
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:13 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 95):
The stewards wrongly claimed that Hamilton "used his momentum" from straightlining the chicane to overtake Kimi. What is wrong about that? Simple. Kimi had the racing line through the second half of the chicane and THE ENTIRE LENGTH of the front straight to accelerate to his braking point for La Source Hamilton drove back out on the circuit at some point past the chicane exit then COULD NOT ACCELERATE until Kimi had passed.

From MacLaren -

Quote:

The McLaren spokesman said: "We looked at all our data, and also made it available to the FIA stewards.

"It showed that, having lifted [off the accelerator], Lewis was 6kph slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line.

"Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal.

 
na
Posts: 9812
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:21 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 84):
Ferrari is not gods gift to Formula One.

I guess it can well be said that if Ferrari withdraws from F1, that sport is dead, or at least, worth only half as much.
That said, I still think all this conspiracy talk is crap. Most of the F1 is English, most teams are from there, and Mosley is English as much as I know, not Italian.
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:25 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 94):
Quoting Gman94 (Reply 85):
The penalty is utterly ridiculous to be dropped to third place when Massa or Heidfeld were not involved in the incident just shows complete bias in Formula 1 in favour of Ferrari.

Where is the proof or are you just bitter that it went Ferrari's way? Yeah sure

Numerous incidents over the years that Ferrari don't get punished for but the other teams do. Don't let the evidence get in the way of your pro Ferrari bias.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: F1 2008, Spa-Francorchamps!

Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:25 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 94):
I was referring to Ferrari's otherwise excellent reliability record versus other team's cars, and it was in response to a bitter fan who is jealous of Ferrari's near-invincibility when it comes to reliability.

Me in fact.. but you misinterpreted
My comment about their impressive reliability in recent times, which I admire them for, was used to illustrate how strange.. suspicious even.. the 2 high profile engine failures were. Not as you say a fit of jealousy.
Let me clarify further the jealous fan thing, I own a Ferrari jacket.. Williams as well, write my diary notes and sales orders with a Vodaphone Mclaren pen, I am a fan of fair and interesting racing rather than a rabid one eyed follower of any particular team or driver.
Just a pity the administrators of F1 makes it difficult to see much of the fair and interesting racing part.

Quoting NA (Reply 97):
I guess it can well be said that if Ferrari withdraws from F1, that sport is dead

Ferrari (and the tifosi) seem to have long held the view and indeed promoted the view that there can be no Formula 1 without Ferrari.
They perhaps lose sight of the fact that there can be no Formula 1 with ONLY Ferrari

This latest decision just baffles me.



Cheers
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