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usxguy
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Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:43 pm

Interesting twist...

http://keysnews.com/node/5536

A 16th circuit judge has approved the adoption of a Key West boy by one of his gay foster fathers, calling Florida's categorical ban on gay adoption "unconstitutional on its face" and deciding that adoption was in the best interest of the child.

"The petitioner has proven ... that [the ban] constitutes punishment of Floridians because of their sexual orientation. The facts and circumstances surrounding enactment of [the law] demonstrate that its singular purpose was to repress gay Floridians as a group, without any consideration being given to allowing even one gay Floridian an opportunity to establish his actual ability to parent."

After seven years in the same home, with the same foster parents, and the same pets, swimming pool and after-school activities, the child being adopted is in his best interest, Audlin said.

"The fact that the petitioner is a gay man is irrelevant to his skills as a parent and his fitness to adopt," Audlin wrote.

I think its time this started happening.
xx
 
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alberchico
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Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:57 pm

This will probaly go down in history with Roe vs Wade as one of the most controversial and disputed rulings ever. Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
TWFirst
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Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:06 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
This will probaly go down in history with Roe vs Wade as one of the most controversial and disputed rulings ever. Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

On the contrary... one of the reasons mother nature invented gays is to adopt and love all the unwanted children that irresponsible and f*cked up breeders pop out by the dozen every day. That child is going to have a great future.

Sanity, fairness, logic, and the best interests of the child ruled in this case.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
mt99
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Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:31 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

How so?
Step into my office, baby
 
1stfl94
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

Why such a mistake? The child is being allowed to stay in the same home as it has been for seven years i.e stable and loving. And its about time that people realised that us gays can raise children.
 
N1120A
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:45 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
This will probaly go down in history with Roe vs Wade as one of the most controversial and disputed rulings ever.

You are joking, right? This is a state appellate court determining Florida law, not something that affects the whole nation, much of which has already gotten past such inane policies.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

Why?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
travelin man
Posts: 3238
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:24 pm

I find it funny that I am surprised that Florida actually prohibited gay people from adopting.

More reasons to be glad I live in California.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
You are joking, right? This is a state appellate court determining Florida law, not something that affects the whole nation, much of which has already gotten past such inane policies.

Actually, it's a trial court's decision that is not binding on any other judge or court... Really pretty insignificant...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
cytz_pilot
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

Why is a child better off being raised by social services instead of in a family? Sexual orientation has nothing to do with being a good parent.

In the next month, my wife is going to become a gestational surrogate for a gay couple. My first reaction when we were asked if we were ok with doing this for them was my own son's connection to his mother when he was very young, and her natural maternal instincts to protect him. I wondered if it was possible for two men to have a similar connection to a baby. Then I realized that, being gay, it requires a completely proactive approach to become a parent. There are no WHOOPS babies born to parents who never really wanted children in the first place....and only those couples who are totally focused on family and raising children will be the ones to go through the process of adoption or surrogacy. It's a harder road to travel...which assures me that this baby will be born into a family that loves it completely.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
This will probaly go down in history with Roe vs Wade as one of the most controversial and disputed rulings ever. Personally I think Its a HUGE mistake.........

I agree.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
On the contrary... one of the reasons mother nature invented gays is to adopt and love all the unwanted children that irresponsible and f*cked up breeders pop out by the dozen every day. That child is going to have a great future.

I think you are missing the point. Personally I don't care one way or the other as far as whether gays can adopt - I have split feelings about the issue and I'm not sure which way I'd vote for. Probably pro.

The point is that a JUDGE should not be the one who decides this. It should be up to our elected legislators to pass a law on the issue whether something is allowed or not. The constitution does not say anything about this sort of thing.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
N1120A
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:53 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):

The point is that a JUDGE should not be the one who decides this.

Perhaps you should sit down and read Marbury v. Madison at some point.

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 7):

Actually, it's a trial court's decision that is not binding on any other judge or court...

A trial court, huh? So it is even less ground breaking.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The point is that a JUDGE should not be the one who decides this. It should be up to our elected legislators to pass a law on the issue whether something is allowed or not. The constitution does not say anything about this sort of thing.

A judge has to approve all adoptions, at least in Florida. What is in the best interest of the child is paramount in making these decisions. There is a statute in Florida prohibiting gay adoptions. This judge obviously concluded that the best interest of the child trumped the gay adoption prohibition.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 11):
A judge has to approve all adoptions, at least in Florida.

That's just wierd.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 11):
There is a statute in Florida prohibiting gay adoptions. This judge obviously concluded that the best interest of the child trumped the gay adoption prohibition.

If that was his reason, he should be thrown off the bench. He's supposed to follow the law, not his own opinion when he thinks the law is wrong.

Let's say a judge hears a pedophile case, and he himself kinda 'likes the little ones' as well. Just because he thinks there's nothing wrong with having sex with a minor, should he be allowed to dismiss the case because he thinks the law is wrong?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
N1120A
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:06 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 11):

A judge has to approve all adoptions, at least in Florida



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):

That's just wierd.

Not particularly weird. I believe that happens in every jurisdiction. Many may be a rubber stamp, but I am sure it happens.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):

If that was his reason, he should be thrown off the bench. He's supposed to follow the law, not his own opinion when he thinks the law is wrong.

The Constitutions of the United States and the State of Florida trump all normal Florida statutes. What don't you get about that?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):

Let's say a judge hears a pedophile case, and he himself kinda 'likes the little ones' as well. Just because he thinks there's nothing wrong with having sex with a minor, should he be allowed to dismiss the case because he thinks the law is wrong?

What a terrible comparison. This judge, someone who obviously knows more about the law than you Charles, has read both the Florida and United States Constitutions and has determined that this statute is unconstitutional. That's how it works.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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usxguy
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:07 pm

Dreadnought,

That's part of their duty, and our appeals system. I don't think anyone should challenge this as the judge made the right decision based on the data he has available to him.

Even though i'm conservative, I feel that adoption of children should be open to anyone, despite race, creed, heritage, or orientation. If the State feels a person is qualified to "rescue" these children, then so be it.

-n
xx
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 11):
There is a statute in Florida prohibiting gay adoptions. This judge obviously concluded that the best interest of the child trumped the gay adoption prohibition.

If that was his reason, he should be thrown off the bench. He's supposed to follow the law, not his own opinion when he thinks the law is wrong.

Your responses make it pretty obvious that you don't know much about American law. Case law is just as much law as statutory law. The public policy of Florida as supported by an abundance of case law is that in adoptions, the primary concern is the best interest of the child. If you don't agree that the child's best interest is paramount, I'd like to know what you think is more important in adoption cases.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:37 pm



Quoting USXguy (Reply 13):
Even though i'm conservative, I feel that adoption of children should be open to anyone, despite race, creed, heritage, or orientation.

I pretty much agree.

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 15):
Your responses make it pretty obvious that you don't know much about American law. Case law is just as much law as statutory law. The public policy of Florida as supported by an abundance of case law is that in adoptions, the primary concern is the best interest of the child.

I'm no lawyer, but I do know that the law (you know, those squigly lines of text that come out of congress) are supposed to be followed. A judge should apply the law unless there is a part of either the state or Federal Constitution, that over-rides the law.

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 15):
If you don't agree that the child's best interest is paramount, I'd like to know what you think is more important in adoption cases.

Justice is supposed to be blind. Follow the law.

The only exception would be where the child is in some sort of immediate danger. I'd be more willing to bend the law if it's a case of removing a child from an abusive parent, but there is not the same urgency here.

What I would like for there to be is a power for state or federal judges (perhaps only supreme court level) to require the legislature to address a particular issue, because there is a gap in the law. Abortion would be an ideal candidate for such a procedure. Legislators have been cowards on this issue, which is why Roe v Wade has been allowed to fester.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
greggarious
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:07 pm



Yeah Florida! My state takes a big step forward today!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:22 pm

I just read the article a bit further. The Judge's conclusion is completely non-sensical.

The petitioner has proven ... that [the ban] constitutes punishment of Floridians because of their sexual orientation. The facts and circumstances surrounding enactment of [the law] demonstrate that its singular purpose was to repress gay Floridians as a group, without any consideration being given to allowing even one gay Floridian an opportunity to establish his actual ability to parent."

No.  no   no   no 

If you asked anyone who voted for that particular law, whether today or 20 years ago, why they felt that law was required, I believe they would tell you that they felt that it was an unhealthy environment for the children.

Whether you believe them to be correct or wrong is completely beside the point. The judge basically has accused those people of passing the law "because we want to punish those gay people", and has said that the law is unconstitutional because it constitutes "punishment without a judicial trial".

Complete hogwash.

Unless someone can bring up a statement or quote from a state lawmaker that says "We passed the law to punish gays", this judge is off the reservation.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
N1120A
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:46 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):

If you asked anyone who voted for that particular law, whether today or 20 years ago, why they felt that law was required, I believe they would tell you that they felt that it was an unhealthy environment for the children.

They would probably tell you that it was because they are bigots.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):

Justice is supposed to be blind. Follow the law.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):

I'm no lawyer, but I do know that the law (you know, those squigly lines of text that come out of congress) are supposed to be followed. A judge should apply the law unless there is a part of either the state or Federal Constitution, that over-rides the law.

You apparently have no concept of what the Common Law is.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
You apparently have no concept of what the Common Law is.

I know what it is, and I don't like it. Why should we decide a case today based on the (possibly idiotic) decision of a judge 50 years ago.

It's like getting a speeding ticket. Just because you talked your way out of it once doesn't mean that you should expect to be let off every time.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Florida Judge: Gay Men Can Adopt

Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:08 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

I know what it is, and I don't like it.

Well, sorry. It is the way this country, and 49 out of its 50 states set up their laws.

As the right wingers are so apt to say...If you don't like it, get out.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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