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luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:05 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 199):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 197):
VP candidates aren't going to win or lose this election...It's the Presidential candidates that are.

You do realize that Palin got more cheers than McCain right?

Why do you think he picked her. It is not t hat she is the best person for the job it is the fact that she pushes all the right buttons for him, i.e. abortion rights (or lack of them), and the NRA, both will support him and spend money doing so.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:10 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 200):
Why do you think he picked her. It is not t hat she is the best person for the job it is the fact that she pushes all the right buttons for him, i.e. abortion rights (or lack of them), and the NRA, both will support him and spend money doing so.

Let me remind you of past post by a McCain suppoter..

Quoting Tugger (Reply 139):
Palin was chosen because:

1.) She bolstered a base that McCain needed (remember all the vehement comments from Republican's who swore, before the nomination process was over, that they would never vote for McCain?)

2.) She provided the perfect shock value and counter balance to the Dem ticket.

3.) Most importantly, she is weak in Washington and politically and McCain will not have to worry about her "controlling" things. McCain is quite literally "his own man" and he did not want someone who would cause an impediment to HIS administration.

Sounds like great VP!!
Step into my office, baby
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 201):
Sounds like great VP!!

Come on its not like he did not know her, he met her all of one other time before picking her.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:15 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 200):

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 199):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 197):
VP candidates aren't going to win or lose this election...It's the Presidential candidates that are.

You do realize that Palin got more cheers than McCain right?

Why do you think he picked her. It is not t hat she is the best person for the job it is the fact that she pushes all the right buttons for him, i.e. abortion rights (or lack of them), and the NRA, both will support him and spend money doing so.

VP candidates are historically chosen to satisfy the base. If you think Historians are wrong that's fine, but it's the Presidential Candidate that decides elections. Electrifying the GOP base is good, but it's independent voters that are going to decide this election.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 202):

Come on its not like he did not know her, he met her all of one other time before picking her.

He obviously did, he even criticized her "earmarks"

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...armarks3-2008sep03,0,2482434.story

In 2001, McCain's list of spending that had been approved without the normal budget scrutiny included a $500,000 earmark for a public transportation project in Wasilla. The Arizona senator targeted $1 million in a 2002 spending bill for an emergency communications center in town -- one that local law enforcement has said is redundant and creates confusion.

McCain also criticized $450,000 set aside for an agricultural processing facility in Wasilla that was requested during Palin's tenure as mayor and cleared Congress soon after she left office in 2002.
Step into my office, baby
 
mt99
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:20 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 203):

VP candidates are historically chosen to satisfy the base. If you think Historians are wrong that's fine, but it's the Presidential Candidate that decides elections

Honestly, this election cycle has been unlike any other in history. There is no historical comparison here.
Step into my office, baby
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 201):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 139):
Palin was chosen because:

1.) She bolstered a base that McCain needed (remember all the vehement comments from Republican's who swore, before the nomination process was over, that they would never vote for McCain?)

2.) She provided the perfect shock value and counter balance to the Dem ticket.

3.) Most importantly, she is weak in Washington and politically and McCain will not have to worry about her "controlling" things. McCain is quite literally "his own man" and he did not want someone who would cause an impediment to HIS administration.

Sounds like great VP!!

Yup, just like Joe Biden!!

 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:23 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 193):
Nope not at all. If she is clean, why would it even be considered "spinable",

A perfect example of "spin"

Congress Mulls Lehman Collapse; Democrats Lash Out At Bush
Mon. September 15, 2008; Posted: 07:43 PM
7 Stocks You Need To Know For Tomorrow -- Free Newsletter
(RTTNews) - Congress reacted cautiously to the weekend demise of Wall Street investment bank Lehman Brothers, with many of those most responsible for financial oversight reserving comment until more information is processed.
However, many Democratic leaders took the opportunity to lash out of the Bush administration, blaming the financial turmoil on what it called a "failed" economic program.


http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/TOP%20STORY/1882944/

And of course Obama has been blaming Bush for the whole meltdown for the past week.

But wait!

After a few days, people start digging up stuff like this:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...9C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

September 11, 2003
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.


And who got in the way of reform?

Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

”I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,” Mr. Watt said.



And a further history lesson:

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.


http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

But how long do the facts take to overcome the lies and spin? Right now, everyone has heard Obama blame the Republicans, but how many Americans have heard the fact that the FM Twins were a Democratic social engineering tool from the beginning? Or that certain people (including Bush and McCain), have been sounding the alarm for years? Eventually the truth comes out, but in the meantime, slime attacks work for a while.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
Arrow
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:42 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 198):
And they will have it wrong (again). if Obama loses, it won't be because of racism, it will be because most people will recognize him to be a socialist, and they don't want socialism.

Obama a socialist?  laughing 

You have no idea what a socialist is.

Here's what I've been waiting for: I wonder if anyone is perusing all the sermons delivered at that Wasilla church that Sarah attends. And I wonder if they'll find any particularly vile rants against gays, pro-choicers, liberals -- or any other group -- that she meekly listened to. And I wonder if she'll have to disown the minister because of it.

On the other hand -- it's been two weeks now and maybe it just doesn't exist. Too bad, that kind of stuff makes for great theatre in an election.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:47 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 212):

Here's what I've been waiting for: I wonder if anyone is perusing all the sermons delivered at that Wasilla church that Sarah attends. And I wonder if they'll find any particularly vile rants against gays, pro-choicers, liberals -- or any other group -- that she meekly listened to.

Thats a good one!.. How about if we ask Fox News to cover this one!
Step into my office, baby
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:51 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 212):
And I wonder if they'll find any particularly vile rants against gays, pro-choicers, liberals -- or any other group --

Definition: "vile rants" = Anything a non-democrat says that is not in complete agreement with liberal campaign planks. If a republican says abortion is wrong....well that republican just made a "vile rant".

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 213):
Thats a good one!.. How about if we ask Fox News to cover this one!

Fox news better do it, we wouldn't want lightning to strike you for being up-close-and-personal with religious items. Or maybe you'll have an epiphany....Mt99 stars as Saul, in the remake of The Twelve Apostles. Hey! you never know.....  Smile





[Edited 2008-09-16 11:09:07]
 
mdsh00
Posts: 4046
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:02 pm

Breaking News!

McCain campaign claims that he's responsible for the Blackberry.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...helped-create%E2%80%99/#more-18692

Quote:
McCain senior domestic policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said Tuesday the BlackBerry mobile e-mail device was a “miracle that John McCain helped create.”

So, Al Gore invented the Internet and McCain was responsible for the Blackberry? I've seen it all.

 rotfl 
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 212):
You have no idea what a socialist is.

I lived 20 years in Europe and worked for 10 years all around the Soviet (and ex-Soviet) Union. I've seen what socialism does.

But please explain in your own words what socialism is.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 212):
Here's what I've been waiting for: I wonder if anyone is perusing all the sermons delivered at that Wasilla church that Sarah attends. And I wonder if they'll find any particularly vile rants against gays, pro-choicers, liberals -- or any other group -- that she meekly listened to. And I wonder if she'll have to disown the minister because of it.

On the other hand -- it's been two weeks now and maybe it just doesn't exist.

Maybe you are right.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 215):
Breaking News!

McCain campaign claims that he's responsible for the Blackberry.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...helped-create%E2%80%99/#more-18692

Quote:
McCain senior domestic policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said Tuesday the BlackBerry mobile e-mail device was a “miracle that John McCain helped create.”

So, Al Gore invented the Internet and McCain was responsible for the Blackberry? I've seen it all.

rotfl

Give me a break. Al Gore actually claimed he set the gears in motion for the internet's creation..Some idiot aide just shot his mouth off and you're saying McCain claimed he invented the Blackberry?

If Obama wants to talk about Blackberries, by all means do.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-and-the.html

UPDATE: Senior aide Matt McDonald said that Sen. McCain "laughed" when he heard about Holtz-Eakin's comment.

"He would not claim to be the inventor of anything, much less the BlackBerry. This was obviously a boneheaded joke by a staffer," McDonald said.
 
AGM100
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:07 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 212):
And I wonder if they'll find any particularly vile rants against gays, pro-choicers, liberals -- or any other group -- that she meekly listened to. And I wonder if she'll have to disown the minister because of it.

It would be good to know , and it will no doubt be scrutinized. But a church is a place where moral ideals are discussed and ministers have the right to preach about moral issues one way or the other. The Problem with Rev Wright is he was blasting on about politics , and evil America. He was using the pulpit for political purposes , and his politics are relevant to Sen Obama. On one side you will have Gov Palin who is a conservative and has the values of the conservative party . That is clear , and if you do not agree then vote against her and McCain. On the other side you have Rev Wright saying goddamn America . Big difference.

If it is known that ministers at Gov Palin's church preached conservative values , then we assume Gov Palin agrees with them correct ?. Could the same then be assumed about Sen Obama and his church ? I think the Obama campaign should steer well clear of that argument.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:34 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 201):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 139):
Palin was chosen because:

1.) She bolstered a base that McCain needed (remember all the vehement comments from Republican's who swore, before the nomination process was over, that they would never vote for McCain?)

2.) She provided the perfect shock value and counter balance to the Dem ticket.

3.) Most importantly, she is weak in Washington and politically and McCain will not have to worry about her "controlling" things. McCain is quite literally "his own man" and he did not want someone who would cause an impediment to HIS administration.

Sounds like great VP!!

At least better than what we've had in recent times . . .  sarcastic 

Here's a good piece . . . of quoting correctly w/misleading intent w/the title (italics mine) . . .

From CNN's Political Ticker


Fiorina: Palin not qualified to run company
Posted: 12:45 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby


Carly Fiorina spoke at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul.
WARREN, Ohio (CNN) – Carly Fiorina, the former Hewlett-Packard CEO turned John McCain Victory chair, said Tuesday that Sarah Palin isn’t qualified to run her old company.

Appearing on a KTRS Radio show in St. Louis, Fiorina was asked by the host, “Do you think she has the experience to run a major company like Hewlett Packard?”

“No, I don’t,” Fiorina answered. “But that’s not what she’s running for. Running a corporation is a different set of things."

"I would just remind you that it is Barack Obama who is running for president," she continued. "John McCain who is running for president.”

Fiorina contended that while Palin may not be up the task of running a multi-billion dollar IT company, she does have more relevant governing experience than Obama does.

“I find it quite stunning actually that the Barack Obama campaign is questioning Sarah Palin's experience,” Fiorina said. “She’s got more executive experience than he does biggrin  and she is the vice presidential nominee, Barack Obama is the presidential nominee.”

Filed under: Carly Fiorina • Sarah Palin
Living the American Dream
 
mdsh00
Posts: 4046
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 214):

Relax man. I think both claims are equally stupid, Gore and the McCain staffer.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:53 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 215):
WARREN, Ohio (CNN) – Carly Fiorina, the former Hewlett-Packard CEO turned John McCain Victory chair, said Tuesday that Sarah Palin isn’t qualified to run her old company.

Appearing on a KTRS Radio show in St. Louis, Fiorina was asked by the host, “Do you think she has the experience to run a major company like Hewlett Packard?”

Given Carly's performance at HP I don't think she was either...She needs to stop mouthing off about the sexism crap it is getting old..

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 216):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 214):

Relax man. I think both claims are equally stupid, Gore and the McCain staffer.

Sorry dude. Stressful day at the office, didn't mean to take it out on you..
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:16 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 217):
Given Carly's performance at HP I don't think she was either

Not that I'd disagree, but the main point of that article was the hypocrisy of the headline.
Living the American Dream
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:26 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 218):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 217):
Given Carly's performance at HP I don't think she was either

Not that I'd disagree, but the main point of that article was the hypocrisy of the headline.

Is it though? I am not sure. Is Palin ready to run a multi-billion dollar tech company? I don't think so..Apply the same thing to McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden and you'd get the same answer.

Maybe Romney is the only one who could do it, but he wasn't that great of a Governor..JFK wasn't exactly corporate material but was a good President. I am not sure both of them go hand in hand.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:37 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 219):
Is it though? I am not sure.

It should be clear what they're doing - Fiorina's remarks (in whole) were intended to support Palin's position of experience (as far as politics) while CNN's headline showed Fiorina deriding Palin's experience (even though those remarks concerned corporate business) - Fiorina meant for one message to be sent, the headline said another.
Living the American Dream
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 219):
s Palin ready to run a multi-billion dollar tech company?

As you pointed out earlier it not about WHAT you know.. its about leadership...
Step into my office, baby
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:44 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 220):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 219):
Is it though? I am not sure.

It should be clear what they're doing - Fiorina's remarks (in whole) were intended to support Palin's position of experience (as far as politics) while CNN's headline showed Fiorina deriding Palin's experience (even though those remarks concerned corporate business) - Fiorina meant for one message to be sent, the headline said another.

Definitely true, but it definitely seems odd Fiorina was dumb enough to walk into that one. McCain's aides haven't had a good day.

I do hope Obama runs another ad using this quote. His last ad was just plain stupid. He seems to have gone off the deep end these days..

McCain for right or wrong was talking about the economy today and "said" all the right things. He's too busy blasting McCain forgetting that if he's on the defense he'll lose the election.

This guy is a lightweight. If he can't take on old man McCain wait until he goes a few rounds with Judo Master Putin....
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:11 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 213):
The Problem with Rev Wright is he was blasting on about politics , and evil America.

Indeed he was. But that approach to sermonizing (what used to be called fire and brimstone) can rear its ugly head in all manner of church environments and embrace language that would make you blush. Expressing conservative values is one thing, demonizing those who think differently is something else. Sarah Palin apparently puts people into two camps -- for or against -- and if you're against, you become a "hater." I'd be interested to know if her viewpoint was shaped by any of the hundreds of sermons she heard, and in what way.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 213):
If it is known that ministers at Gov Palin's church preached conservative values , then we assume Gov Palin agrees with them correct ?. Could the same then be assumed about Sen Obama and his church ?

I think that's the point. Obama was confronted with Reverend Wright, and asked to explain the nature of his relationship. He also had to repudiate Wright's more virulent attacks, and he eventually had to repudiate the man. I would be curious to see how Palin would handle something similar, if indeed there is anything similar there to handle. Certainly the NYT piece from last Friday didn't go there. Is that because it doesn't exist, or because no one has dug it out yet?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:24 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 223):
demonizing those who think differently is something else

So if a minister stands up and speaks against abortion he is demonizing those who have had one ? In my opinion no . But if the minister stood up and said , you can not vote for XX because he supports abortion rights then that is different.

Gov Palin is Pro life and Pro traditional family , would it be that big of a shock if her minister taught those ideals ? And I will be as bold to bet , that she will not disavow her pastor , no matter what kind of pressure gets levied on her. She will stand up for the values she believes in , even if they are not popular with the other side of the electorate.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:27 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 224):
Gov Palin is Pro life and Pro traditional family , would it be that big of a shock if her minister taught those ideals ? And I will be as bold to bet , that she will not disavow her pastor , no matter what kind of pressure gets levied on her. She will stand up for the values she believes in , even if they are not popular with the other side of the electorate.

That's the thing Libs don't get....Religion in their eyes is automatically bad. Yet where they apparently draw from is good. There is no Central Prophet in Liberalism, though the fashion in the US is to adopt anything European..

Gov. Palin will be fine. She won't win the election for McCain, he's got to do that himself. If his energy policy bit is a sign what he'll do on the Economy he'll be in a good spot to win.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Uh oh, my favorite paleocon Pat Buchanan's tellin' it like it is again.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28559

[Edited 2008-09-16 14:49:01]
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:56 pm

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 225):
That's the thing Libs don't get....Religion in their eyes is automatically bad. Yet where they apparently draw from is good.

Thats what the conservatives don't get.. not everything based on Religion is automatically good. Just ask some "Witches" over at Salem...

[Edited 2008-09-16 14:58:30]
Step into my office, baby
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:59 pm

Without reading the 226+ post, here is some Straight Talk from John McCain.


http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html

and even more Straight Talk.

Bring back the Concorde
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:07 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 224):
So if a minister stands up and speaks against abortion he is demonizing those who have had one ?

Not necessarily -- but surely you'll agree that it's possible (and that it happens) for a minister, or anyone else, to cast those who disagree in rather nasty terms, essentially calling them the devil incarnate and a whole bunch of other names that have nothing to do with an honest disagreement over philosophy and morality.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 225):
That's the thing Libs don't get....Religion in their eyes is automatically bad.

What Libs don't get is why so many (not all) of the religious persuasion aren't satisfied with living their religious beliefs, but insist that others live them too. If Sarah Palin can govern all the people (not just the Christians) without attempting to enforce her particular religious beliefs on those who disagree, then she'll be just fine. What is worrisome -- when she starts having so-called rhetorical discussions about removing books from library shelves -- is that she won't be able to do that. That level of intolerance on her part would be, well, intolerable.

What neo-cons don't get is that government should be profoundly secular. You may have noticed that Palin's response to a question about the phrase "under god" in the pledge of allegiance was "if it was good enough for the founding fathers, then it's good enough for me." She obviously has no idea that the founding fathers studiously avoided those religious homilies, and that "under god" was inserted in 1954 at the height of the McCarthy era.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
MOBflyer
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:42 am

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:20 am

I went to the Mobile Republican Headquarters on Airport Blvd today....
I got 2 yard signs, 2 bumper stickers, and 2 stickers. Total: $5.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:22 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 230):
I got 2 yard signs, 2 bumper stickers, and 2 stickers. Total: $5

The beauty of products made in China.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:32 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 227):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 225):
That's the thing Libs don't get....Religion in their eyes is automatically bad. Yet where they apparently draw from is good.

Thats what the conservatives don't get.. not everything based on Religion is automatically good. Just ask some "Witches" over at Salem...

You won't get an argument from me there. Extremism in all forms is bad.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 229):
What Libs don't get is why so many (not all) of the religious persuasion aren't satisfied with living their religious beliefs, but insist that others live them too. If Sarah Palin can govern all the people (not just the Christians) without attempting to enforce her particular religious beliefs on those who disagree, then she'll be just fine. What is worrisome -- when she starts having so-called rhetorical discussions about removing books from library shelves -- is that she won't be able to do that. That level of intolerance on her part would be, well, intolerable.

Though those myths about Gov Palin have been debunked

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Most of the articles have shown she's kept her personal beliefs out of government.

Libs are equally guilty of trying to force their beliefs down people's throats. It's a two way street of dysfunction here.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:51 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 232):
Though those myths about Gov Palin have been debunked

I don't think so. I'm moving kinda slow at the moment, but all that's been debunked is that she "demanded" books be banned. It's clear to me that she wanted to ban them. The party line is that she asked "rhetorical" questions about banning. That was NOT debunked. The librarian was fired. Then rehired under public pressure.
 
sv7887
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:52 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 233):
It's clear to me that she wanted to ban them. The party line is that she asked "rhetorical" questions about banning. That was NOT debunked.

The line here is that she used religion to ban them..and seems to forget censorship in libraries is a hotly debated thing..It ignores that the Supreme Court has had to rule this and related manners.

A liberal Concord, MA banned Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. It's not a conservative thing solely...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:19 am

Apparently Palin's Favorable/Unfavorable numbers in polling over the last week have moved 10 points away from each other, the Favorable from 52 down to 48%, Unfavorable from 36 to 42%. Guess the 'lipstick' is wearing off...
 
sv7887
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 235):
Apparently Palin's Favorable/Unfavorable numbers in polling over the last week have moved 10 points away from each other, the Favorable from 52 down to 48%, Unfavorable from 36 to 42%. Guess the 'lipstick' is wearing off...

Maybe the 41% Democrats 36% Republican differential who took that poll might have something to do with it..

http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/doc...DiageoHotlineTracker091608data.pdf
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:24 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 232):
Libs are equally guilty of trying to force their beliefs down people's throats. It's a two way street of dysfunction here.

Really? Give me an example here.

(Teaching evolution and sex ed are not examples. Those are examples of factual education no different than math or physics. The fact that some religions take issue with these is a problem with the religion, not the subject matter.)

I have never heard of a pro-choicer supporting forcing women to have abortions. I have, however, heard of pro-lifers forcing women to not have them.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:32 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 235):
Apparently Palin's Favorable/Unfavorable numbers in polling over the last week have moved 10 points away from each other, the Favorable from 52 down to 48%, Unfavorable from 36 to 42%. Guess the 'lipstick' is wearing off...

its the economy stupid...  Wink I noticed this too.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:15 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 237):
(Teaching evolution and sex ed are not examples. Those are examples of factual education no different than math or physics.

Doc, you know better than this, don't you?

It's the theory of evolution, not fact my friend. Darwin himself questioned his own theory, about why there is such a profound lack of intermediate forms in the fossil record. In fact there are hardly any fossils that show a transition period between forms.

Math, Physics, Evolution?  rotfl 


 
sv7887
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 237):
Really? Give me an example here.

(Teaching evolution and sex ed are not examples. Those are examples of factual education no different than math or physics. The fact that some religions take issue with these is a problem with the religion, not the subject matter.)

I have never heard of a pro-choicer supporting forcing women to have abortions. I have, however, heard of pro-lifers forcing women to not have them.

California banning new car diesel sales for 4 yrs. Real smart...How about their pointless attempts to ban guns, spanking children (yup need the government telling me how to discipline kids), pointless proposed bans on certain breeds of dog ownership, and even Huck Finn at Liberal Concord, MA libraries
 
Arrow
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:10 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 237):
I have never heard of a pro-choicer supporting forcing women to have abortions. I have, however, heard of pro-lifers forcing women to not have them.

 checkmark 

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 240):
California banning new car diesel sales for 4 yrs. Real smart...How about their pointless attempts to ban guns, spanking children (yup need the government telling me how to discipline kids), pointless proposed bans on certain breeds of dog ownership, and even Huck Finn at Liberal Concord, MA libraries

Interesting list. I vaguely remember the Huck Finn issue, but am I missing something -- wasn't that 100 years ago? And isn't it more likely that the ban came out of conservative thought, not liberal. Either way, it's not terribly relevant today. The Nazis banned books, too, and I haven't heard anyone call them liberal lately.

Diesel cars? I thought that was all about fleet vehicles, not individual sales. Was that a concern about increased particulate pollution in smog-soaked LA? I guess from your point of view, it's OK for someone to force dirty air down my lungs so they can continue to drive a car or truck that pollutes too much. I know, if I would just stop breathing, there'd be no problem ...

No spanking? Interesting that the neocons think it's not OK to kill a fetus, but beating a live kid senseless is OK. The dog breeds? I've seen what happens when a pit bull goes after a kid, but I agree that banning them isn't an answer. Ban the owners.

Guns? What can I say? That's mostly an American obsession, except that most of our illegal guns come from the US. In return, you get our illegal drugs, Fair trade?

I'm not going to quarrel too much with the list because I don't know enough about it, other than to say that your argument here seems to be that since liberals are guilty of forcing their views down people's throats, it's OK for neocons to do the same. Whatever happened to two wrongs don't make a right?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
sv7887
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 241):
Diesel cars? I thought that was all about fleet vehicles, not individual sales. Was that a concern about increased particulate pollution in smog-soaked LA? I guess from your point of view, it's OK for someone to force dirty air down my lungs so they can continue to drive a car or truck that pollutes too much. I know, if I would just stop breathing, there'd be no problem ...

The Diesels were new car sales of largely sedans. In particular the same Mercedes E Class CDI that is perfectly legal in 45 states and Europe wasn't allowed to be sold in CA. If you got a 20 yr old dirty diesel that was okay, but you couldn't get a much cleaner CDI.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYH/is_21_6/ai_94122798

Now Mercedes has a Bluetec system that uses Urea injection to meet the CARB standards. It adds about $1K to the price.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 241):

No spanking? Interesting that the neocons think it's not OK to kill a fetus, but beating a live kid senseless is OK. The dog breeds? I've seen what happens when a pit bull goes after a kid, but I agree that banning them isn't an answer. Ban the owners.

We're not talking about child abuse, but spanking. That's different than a Rodney King style beatdown...Works well for Asia...Chinese and South Asian immigrants in the USA have a very low incarceration rate and a very high literacy and income rate.

The key is balance.

With regards to book banning. It happens in Massachusetts:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...12/ban_book_from_class_panel_says/

Mayor Menino of Boston also installed filters on library computers:
http://users.rcn.com/kyp/meninopr.html

Another article on banned books:
http://degreedirectory.org/articles/...ks_That_You_Should_Read_Today.html


Not saying it's right or wrong, but not solely a conservative phenomenon. It's a fascinating topic for sure.
 
AGM100
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:02 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 229):
but surely you'll agree that it's possible (and that it happens) for a minister, or anyone else, to cast those who disagree in rather nasty terms, essentially calling them the devil incarnate and a whole bunch of other names that have nothing to do with an honest disagreement over philosophy and morality

For the most part (In my experience) ministers do not teach there parishioners to hate anyone. Christians are taught that the "unbeliever" is to be befriended and most certainly not cast out. Jesus fought against indignation and reached out to the non believers all though out his teachings in the testaments. Christianity is not like Islam , those who do not believe the way they do are not to be killed stoned or shunned. Exactly the opposite.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 229):
If Sarah Palin can govern all the people (not just the Christians) without attempting to enforce her particular religious beliefs on those who disagree, then she'll be just fine.

I agree , and she will not be able to enforce her beliefs on anyone any how .. How would she . ? Presidnt Bush is a devout Christian ... has he tried to "enforce" his Christian views on anyone . Even his faith based funding programs , if you look into them make no demands of doctrine or particular religion.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 229):
What neo-cons don't get is that government should be profoundly secular



Yes they do , the big issue is judges. Appointment of judges who have no issue interpreting the Constitution to fit there personal agendas. For instance, they interpret freedom of choice , but at the same time interpret the second amendment differently. Freedom of choice to abort , but restrict freedom regarding firearms . Its a generic example , but I hope it makes the point. And for the record , I do not support the constitutional marriage amendment it should be up to the states to decide what is best for there citizens. Leave the constitution alone ,
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
baroque
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:05 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 239):
It's the theory of evolution, not fact my friend. Darwin himself questioned his own theory, about why there is such a profound lack of intermediate forms in the fossil record. In fact there are hardly any fossils that show a transition period between forms.

Let us have an end to this bloody fiction from the stone ignorant. Here is one example from the Lower Jurassic with ammonites.

Big version: Width: 1944 Height: 1335 File size: 292kb
Diagram showing species change in time and space


It shows how species of the ammonite genera Schlotheimia, Scammoceras and Saxoceras of the angulatum and planorbis zones change in time and along section. I could try and show the ammonites at the various stages of changing from one species to another but that would break the copyright in Arkells book, Jurassic System in Great Britain.

Of course Darwin questioned his theory, that is good science - what is bad is to assume a lack of your own knowledge means that evidence does not exist. If you can go through the 49 volumes of the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology
http://www.paleo.ku.edu/treatise.html
then maybe you can claim there are no intermediates. You would be very welcome at Lindley Hall on the Campus of KU. You might like to look carefully at the limestone walls of the Hall because they are full of fusulinid foraminifera which are another exellent example of lineages in fossil groups. And you can easily collect the various forms of fusulinids in the cuttings of the state highways near between Lawrence and Manhattan.

Your last flight of fancy about as much oil as sea water:
Average depth of ocean: 12,400 feet.

To be amiable, let us spread this over the whole earth's surface, this makes an average depth of 8804 feet. Highest saturation of oil in a reservoir, about 30 %. This would mean that oil saturated rocks must stretch from the surface to at LEAST a depth of about 29,000 feet. EVERYWHERE. So the average oilfield would have 29,000 feet of pay, and the earth would be one gigantic field. Take out the deep oceans and now the oilfields stretch down to a depth of more than 90,000 feet. Hope they do not get in contact with the roots of any volcanoes.

If this the sort of fiction that is roaring around the head of Palin supporters, presumably there is a fair chance that it is a Palin sort of policy.

As they say, get real.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:13 pm

Okay, I'm convinced! I am now a card-carrying nature worshipping atheist. Thanks Baroque. [NOT]

Quoting Baroque (Reply 244):
If you can go through the 49 volumes of the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology
http://www.paleo.ku.edu/treatise.html
then maybe you can claim there are no intermediates. You would be very welcome at Lindley Hall on the Campus of KU. You might like to look carefully at the limestone walls of the Hall because they are full of fusulinid foraminifera which are another exellent example of lineages in fossil groups. And you can easily collect the various forms of fusulinids in the cuttings of the state highways near between Lawrence and Manhattan.

Been there, seen it (big deal). As a student at Emporia State, I had plenty of opportunity to cruise the various locales you mentioned. I never said there were -no- "transitional forms", I said there were relatively few when one would expect to see them everywhere.....if assuming macro-evolution is true and all life had a common ancestor.

I tend to believe the "transitional forms" claimed are rather examples of biological specialization.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 244):
If this the sort of fiction that is roaring around the head of Palin supporters, presumably there is a fair chance that it is a Palin sort of policy.

You are only considering the Earth's crust in your ballpark estimate of petroleum reserves. Of course, since you are a believer in evolution you also believe all oil comes from fossils.
I believe it comes from below the crust and "bubbles" up through the more porous strata.





[Edited 2008-09-17 10:19:22]
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:44 pm

A good use of Google Maps is to illustrate the awesomeness of Austin's geology. This particular outcropping gave an ESU geologist friend of mine an academic erection. Recommend Austin highly if you are the traveling type looking for evidence to support that whacko theory (evolution  Wink ).


View Larger Map

MOPAC (southbound) to 360 (Ben White) fly-under.....


Back to topic....
 
luv2fly
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:41 pm

CNN is reporting that Palin and her staff now will not cooperate in trooper gate. I guess hold me accountable only applies when running for office, not once you got the job.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Ken777
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:19 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 185):
"Hold me accountable." "I welcome the investigation." That's why we liked her. Open, honest, transparent and accountable. What's not to love?

That why Palin is now refusing to co-operate with the investigation? And why, in today's news, her staff are also refusing to honor their obligation to so-operate?

Doesn't matter what the outcome is - the public won't know about it until after the election. If McCain/Palin wins then the Republicans will continue with the coverup - If Obama/Biden wins then the Republicans will throw Palin to the wolves.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 191):
The Left'ist 527s have already started on McCain today, a veterans group attacking him.

Vets are the leftists? Wasn't that was when I was in the military - independent & moderate was considered as far left as one should go. Now that we're out and might cause some embarrassment to McCain we're left wing?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign

Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:30 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 249):
That why Palin is now refusing to co-operate with the investigation?

Probably because the investigation is no longer "Open, honest, transparent and accountable". The head of the investigation (Sen. French, an Obama campaigner) has promised to keep the results hidden until 4 days before the election. Does that look like an honest investigation to you?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.

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