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egmcman
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:54 pm

Great race nice to see Fernando win race as well as well as Nico and Lewis on the podium. Hopefully Lewis has a very good chance of winning the drivers championship.


If Massa looses the driver championship if will be through here and Silverstone where he was not in the points.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:00 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 82):
Did you notice....that BOTH Ferrari Drivers have now, cause Sutil to crash?
That was kinda unsafe on Massa's part...if that was anyone else...they probably would get a penalty for it...don't you think?



Quoting Moo (Reply 99):
I take it Masa isnt being investigated for that crash he caused?

Of course not....I thought we declared Rule 68 part B 7. No Red Car will be punished as much as they should be...

Or something like that...At least Massa got the Drive Through...although...brings in a LOT of speculation about Valencia....don't you think?

Frankly...I think that Light System should be banned.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:02 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 101):
Frankly...I think that Light System should be banned.

Its proven to be unreliable, hasn't it...
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:24 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 98):
Ferraris experiment to replace the lollypop man was a complete failure.



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 101):
Frankly...I think that Light System should be banned.

Time and time again for the last few decades, the lollipop man has been proven to be just as much a 'failure' as ferrari's light system. We even had the SAME problem in the same race today guys. F1 fans and teams have just 'accepted' problems with the lollipop man. You cannot claim that this system is any worse than the lollipop man.

Give ferrari some credit for trying to make things a bit better than they have been for ages. Face it, the lollipop guy has been one of the weakest links in pitstops. Someone had to come up with something. Is it better yet? i dont think so, but i think the system has amazing potential. The one drawback there is is that there is still a human driving the car. Until there is a system that will not let a car leave until the fuel hose is attached, tires on, jacks removed, and no traffic accidents will happen. And i dont think the FIA will mandate anything of the sort.
 
Gman94
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:27 pm

The problem with the light system is that now you have human error and technical error involved now as opposed to just human error with the lollipop system. No system will be perfect but the lollipop system still looks the most effective and safest way of releasing drivers, remember this is starting to now become a regular occurance for Ferrari, the pit lane will look like carnage if all teams adopt the system. Incidents with the lollipop system seem few and far between.
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Alessandro
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:28 pm

Scrubbs, has a driver ever driven away with a tankrig before with the lollypop man being used?
I can´t recall that has happened before, sure accidents with the lollypop man has happened and will
happen, but not as grave as this accident.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:29 pm



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 103):

Give ferrari some credit for trying to make things a bit better than they have been for ages. Face it, the lollipop guy has been one of the weakest links in pitstops.

How many times has the lollipop man failed in such drastic manner for a team twice in a season?
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:30 pm



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 103):
You cannot claim that this system is any worse than the lollipop man.

Well seeing as they've had nearly twice as many accidents/incidents in just this ONE YEAR alone...with the Light system...

Think about it...I don't think McLaren has had any issues with a Lollypop man this year....
 
Alessandro
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:40 pm

Gman, Ferrari used the lollypopman after the tankrig theft of Massa, says it all.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 85):
GOODBYE KIMI!!!!

And Goodbye WDC for him this season.

Now he HAS to help Massa to win the WDC. He is 27pts behind with 3races to go. Way too much.

However, I didnt wake up at 5am to see the race, which I regret a little bit now. Seemed to be a fantastic race.


And by the way McLaren leads the WCC with 1point before Ferrari
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:37 pm

 
Gman94
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:44 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 110):

Hadn't thought of that but Alonso isn't driving a McLaren so he can get away with it . I'm still waiting for the FIA to find some way of blaming Hamilton for Ferrari's pit lane screw up.  Big grin
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BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:53 pm



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 111):
Hadn't thought of that but Alonso isn't driving a McLaren so he can get away with it . I'm still waiting for the FIA to find some way of blaming Hamilton for Ferrari's pit lane screw up.

As sad as this sounds...I sat for like an hour after the race...trying to search the news...to see how McLaren was going to be Punished...Both Ferrari's finish outside of hte points...Thats calling for someone to call foul..

Anyone really know what the guidlines are for race incidents?...SHOULD Massa be penalized for causing Sutil to crash?...
 
baroque
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:54 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 101):
Or something like that...At least Massa got the Drive Through...although...brings in a LOT of speculation about Valencia....don't you think?

I am curious about one thing.

A. Having to pit because you are running out of fuel - penalty stop for 10 seconds before go.

B. Leave the pit with a fuel hose attached, looking like a Burmese python is attempting to mate with the car, nearly cream a passing car while possibly trailing fuel, sit in the middle of the pits for however long - penalty a drive through, less severe than for having to pit.

Now which group was more to blame for the event? Those who were running out of fuel (silly buggers, everybody KNEW there was going to be a safety car!!!!) or those who had a fuelling stuff up?
 
legoguy
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:57 pm

Whilst Alonso had a small bit of luck with the safety car and the Ferrari mess up (more on that later), Alonso drove the pants off the Renault today and throughly deserved todays win. This could be a huge step forward for Renault which may well keep Alonso with them for the next few years.

Credit to Rosberg as well, as despite getting a drive through penalty, he drove solidly to retain the second podium position. Alonso and Rosberg are the drivers of the day in my eyes.

Hamilton didn't do anything special today, with the exception of the move on Coulthard, which perhaps for the first time ever, he pulled a good move without locking his brakes. He did spend alot of time behind Coulthard as it seemed he didn't particularly want to take any risks. Again Kovalainen was stuck in the middle of nowehere, and Raikkonen was in and out of driving well, only to end on a low. 4 races without points for Raikkonen now?

As for Ferrari, firstly, why was Massa awarded a penalty for doing the exactly the same thing as in Valencia (unsafe release)?

Secondly, again through no fault of Massa's, the light release system screwed up. It's about time Ferrari got rid of the light system. Twice now it has failed to work properly and this time, they did not get away with it lightly as in Valencia.

Whilst watching Massa sitting at the end of the pitlane, my heart sank for him. No fault of his own and his race is ruined.

Watching Piquet running across the track after his incident kind of reminded me of David Purley running across the track in order to try and save his team mate, Rodger Williamson back in 1973. Thankfully the circumstances were different today.

Overall, the first Singapore nightrace was very sucessful with even a few overtaking moves here and there. Congrats to the race organisers!

Congrats Alonso and his fans, it took a while but they got there! Cough cough, at the start of this season, I predicted Alonso would probably win a race towards the end of the season, however admittedly, those predictions faded abit mid season!

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 110):
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4207248,00.html
Interesting isn't it...

I only saw the replay once, however I did notice Glock was off the track when he passed Kovalainen and retained the position.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
andz
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 87):
spoiled by a driver who anyway does not deserve to be in F1

Unlike one Mr K. Raikkonen who also hit the wall?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
t1210s
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:27 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 104):
Scrubbs, has a driver ever driven away with a tankrig before with the lollypop man being used?
I can´t recall that has happened before, sure accidents with the lollypop man has happened and will
happen, but not as grave as this accident.

France 2007 LAST YEAR


http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6385.html
The term Broadband comes from the two primary uses of high speed internet downloading porn (broads) and MP3s (bands)
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:32 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 113):
I am curious about one thing.

A. Having to pit because you are running out of fuel - penalty stop for 10 seconds before go.

B. Leave the pit with a fuel hose attached, looking like a Burmese python is attempting to mate with the car, nearly cream a passing car while possibly trailing fuel, sit in the middle of the pits for however long - penalty a drive through, less severe than for having to pit.

Now which group was more to blame for the event? Those who were running out of fuel (silly buggers, everybody KNEW there was going to be a safety car!!!!) or those who had a fuelling stuff up?

A safety car is not an exceptional event within F1, there are defined parameters for its usage, and thus should be taken into consideration whenever you plan your stops. If you cut it too late with the fuel and a safety car is in session, then that was your decision to cut the fuel that low - you should have brought your car in before. Its a gamble that you make, and on this occasion it was a gamble that some lost.

Masa's penalty was for being released into the path of another car, not for the fuel hose issue. I'm 'sure' that the fuel hose issue will be 'investigated' however, but it was not part of that penalty.
 
t1210s
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:09 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 117):

Well said Redbull brought there cars in as soon as piquet crashed it was obvious the safety car was coming out if other teams choose not to respond then thats there own fault
The term Broadband comes from the two primary uses of high speed internet downloading porn (broads) and MP3s (bands)
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:18 pm

I absolutely loved this race! Thank you Singapore!!!

REVERSE KARMA for FERRARI.......

(from bbcsports)

Lap 17: The pit lane is open... Felipe Massa immediately comes in BUT HE'S TAKEN THE FUEL HOSE WITH HIM!!! What the...Huh The Brazilian drives off with the hose still attached, leaving one of the pit crew floored. Massa is sitting in his stricken Ferrari at the end of the pit lane. The crew run down after him and manage to pull the hose off - but that's his race ruined.


DRIVE-THROUGH PENALTY Well, that's just cruel isn't it? Felipe Massa is punished for an unsafe release at his pit stop and duly crawls through the pits.
Kimi Raikkonen is down in 12th after he was held up in that Ferrari pit chaos, which wrecked Felipe Massa's race.


Lap 57: KIMI RAIKKONEN IS OFF! The Finn clips the kerb and collides with the wall coming out of the notorious turn 10 chicane. Surely, that's his world championship over.

1505: And a good day for Lewis Hamilton, who stayed out of trouble to take third and stretch his lead over Felipe Massa to seven points with three races remaining.

Drivers' world championship 2008
Name Car Nat Points
1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes GB 84
2 Felipe Massa Ferrari Brz 77
3 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber Pol 64
4 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari Fin 57

Constructors' world championship 2008
Team Points
1 McLaren-Mercedes 135

NO MASSA
NO KIMI

GO HAMMY!!!!!!!  angel   cheerful   cloudnine 

Singapore Grand Prix: Ferrari KAPUTT!!!!!!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
astuteman
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 111):
I'm still waiting for the FIA to find some way of blaming Hamilton for Ferrari's pit lane screw up.

Me too. I thought I must have flicked to the highlights by mistake and missed it.  Smile
Still. There's time yet - the race has only been finished for 5 hours..  Wink

Rgds
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:01 pm

Just to add to the Controversy....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71002
Massa thinks his Penalty was unfair.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71006
Domenicali Thinks Massa's Penalty was fair...but that the Valencia Penalty...should NOT have been a drive through, because of the circumstances, of how the car was release and the position of the car...

(I think it was pretty much the same thing)

The Interviewer makes the point that the Ferrari Team that ran down to the end of the pit lane to take the fuel rig out of the car...wasn't wearing any safety gear.

Now WHO WANTS TO BET....that had it been Any other Team (probably the Silver ones)....that they'd have been punished for that.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 121):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71002
Massa thinks his Penalty was unfair.

Thats not what I read in that interview, he says he doesn't know why he got the penalty (out of which of the two incidents), not that it was unfair.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:18 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 122):
Thats not what I read in that interview, he says he doesn't know why he got the penalty (out of which of the two incidents), not that it was unfair.

Sorry Correct...My Apologies.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 104):
Scrubbs, has a driver ever driven away with a tankrig before with the lollypop man being used?
I can´t recall that has happened before, sure accidents with the lollypop man has happened and will
happen, but not as grave as this accident.

See the video posted above by T1210s, which shows it happened just last year. I'm sure if we go further back we can find other times it has happened as well. As far as the gravity of the situation, we have had many other problems in pit stops that can cause problems. Sure fuel leaking is bad, but we have had loose tires rolling down the pit lane(which can be incredibly dangerous if you dont know a rolling tire is coming at you. We have had jacks attached to the car which again could be dangerous. etc. etc. MS broke someone's leg or foot when he went ahead with the rig still attached. Sure, today wasn't good, but the danger of it was no worse than incidents with the lollipop man.

Quoting Moo (Reply 105):
How many times has the lollipop man failed in such drastic manner for a team twice in a season?

I sure don't remember every pit lane incident, but i am sure we can go back and find two such incidents in one season. I'm not sure if you have ever taken a statistics course, but i know you can't count on 14 races to develop a confidence in anything to say it is better or worse, so we shouldn't just yet. That is why i say it is no worse than the lollipop man. Is it better? I still say it has AMAZING potential to cut out any of these problems(at least ones with the car being sent with the rig attached), but apparently SF haven't built or designed it properly yet to do it right.

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 106):
The problem with the light system is that now you have human error and technical error involved now as opposed to just human error with the lollipop system. No system will be perfect but the lollipop system still looks the most effective and safest way of releasing drivers, remember this is starting to now become a regular occurance for Ferrari, the pit lane will look like carnage if all teams adopt the system. Incidents with the lollipop system seem few and far between.

Like i said, you cannot determine a trend from two incidents in 14 races. Ferrari could go the next 100 races with this system and save .4 of a second a stop and all will be well. Is it concerning that it has happened twice? sure, but i dont think the system should be abandoned.

I will give you the human factor part, but that is the direction things go. we go from completely manual, to semi automatic, to fully automatic. Finally someone in f1 has taken the leap to semi automatic. IT happens in everything. Cruise control is now semi automatic in that it can detect cars slowing down. The new lexus can parallel park it self, but im sure it can still get in an accident. The biggest problem will always be the human factor. The more you can reduce it the better. OBviously, this is not the first time an incident like this has occurred, so if there is any chance that by getting the system right it can totally with some statistical backup eliminate this problem then it should go ahead. Again, the pitlane some races already look like carnage.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 107):
Well seeing as they've had nearly twice as many accidents/incidents in just this ONE YEAR alone...with the Light system...

Think about it...I don't think McLaren has had any issues with a Lollypop man this year....

again, not enough incidents to determine a trend at all. There have also been something like 12 races this year and at least a couple last year where there were no incidents too!

And yes, mclaren hasn't had any issues and that is great. But it has been established over the years that the lollipop man is the weakest link in the pits. As soon as that sign comes up, the driver is gone. We have seen it time and time again that cars are released early, tires not on well, fuel hose attached, jacks attached, etc. Has mclaren been immune to this problem? I can't remember a specific incident, but i am sure we can find an example in the past.

Fact is, the lollipop man is not perfect. We see mistakes all the time, but since that is all most of us have ever seen, it is accepted. People hate change; everyone bashes it like no tomorrow even if the current way is just as bad. I deal with it at work every day. Changing the status quo's way of doing things and showing something is better is difficult and it seems to be in this thread as well. All i ask is you look at it critically, and take off the hatred of ferrari glasses too. . Can all of you honestly say the lollipop man is more safe or less safe than the light system? The lollipop man has had two incidents in a year of a new system. not unheard of for new systems.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 108):
Gman, Ferrari used the lollypopman after the tankrig theft of Massa, says it all.

A smart choice. I am sure ferrari saw the replay of the pitstop and saw that massa clearly had a green light given to him. Until they could definitely say what happened it was pretty much a given that they would go back to the old way of doing it. I give it a 60% chance they will be back with the lights next race(unless the fia bans it). Design is a paradox. Design is success through failure most times. This is why people prototype and what not. Give enough time for the system to iron out the wrinkles and i think it will be a great system.

Quoting T1210s (Reply 116):
France 2007 LAST YEAR


Thanks, i knew i had seen it at least once before. I am sure if i dug around a bit i could find other examples as well.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:31 am

Wow, I am late!

two things

1) Mistakes like today's will make Massa lose any chance and I have a feeling that its pretty much over (I don't see Lewis making last years' mistakes)

2) Unbelievable how everyone talks 5% about the race and 95% of what penalty Ferrari deserved in today's race, or in the entire career of MS. Enjoy Ferrari had a terrible GP, but stop your obsession about Ferrari! .

weel done Alonso btw  Wink
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
baroque
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:54 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 117):
A safety car is not an exceptional event within F1, there are defined parameters for its usage, and thus should be taken into consideration whenever you plan your stops. If you cut it too late with the fuel and a safety car is in session, then that was your decision to cut the fuel that low - you should have brought your car in before. Its a gamble that you make, and on this occasion it was a gamble that some lost.

Oh I understand the supposed difference, I just think the relative differences are rather stupid. Arguably it would be enough penalty just to be held in the pits until they were officially "open".

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 121):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71002
Massa thinks his Penalty was unfair.

Well that may not have been what he said, but I agree, compared to the other penalties, it was unfair, but it was a penalty against Ferarri not Massa. As far as you could tell Massa was the innocent victim of a stuff up, and at least he noticed he was trailing a Burmese python looking for dinner.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 121):

The Interviewer makes the point that the Ferrari Team that ran down to the end of the pit lane to take the fuel rig out of the car...wasn't wearing any safety gear.

That and a few other matters of having a car stuck in the middle of just where everyone else was trying to get out. I guess the line is purged, but it would still contain an explosive mixture. Not a great concept that, trailing a fueling pipe down the pits.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:15 pm

speed network made a good point in that the basis of the rule to close the pits was to prevent the rush of cars going into the pits when the SC is deployed. Now, what happened yesterday when the pits were opened after the SC? everyone pretty much rushed in.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:18 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 104):
has a driver ever driven away with a tankrig before with the lollypop man being used?
I can´t recall that has happened before

C. Albers at the french GP last year.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 109):
Now he HAS to help Massa to win the WDC. He is 27pts behind with 3races to go. Way too much

That Kimi is no. 2 driver for Ferarri was decided already after Spa!

Quoting B747forever (Reply 109):
However, I didnt wake up at 5am to see the race.

You can be sure no one missed you!

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 101):
Quoting Moo (Reply 99):
I take it Masa isnt being investigated for that crash he caused?

Of course not....I thought we declared Rule 68 part B 7. No Red Car will be punished as much as they should be...

Why on earth should Massa be punished because of something that Sutil did all by himself!!??
Massa had nothing to do with it.
A lot of things Ferrari is doing wrong, and gets away with it, but at one point you need to see the facts as well, and this is one of those cases where Ferrari didn't have anything to do with it.
Sutil was breaking late, under yellow, so he can only blame himself.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:26 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 128):
Massa had nothing to do with it.

I disagree totally, Masa pulled out in front of him after skidding on that corner.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 128):
Why on earth should Massa be punished because of something that Sutil did all by himself!!??
Massa had nothing to do with it.

Agree with Moo...Thats a hard left without much track width...and what Massa did was take out...all opportunity for Sutil to even make the left...Sutil had two choices....hit the Ferrari (for which HE would have been Punished)...or Put it into the wall.

Sutil was coming down the straight...and Massa cut him off....
Now I'm not blaming Massa...he'd probably be pretty pissed...that he's about to be over taken by a Force India...and was in a hurry to get off....but he Should have let Sutil passed...Plain and Simple.

Massa's Fault.
 
codeshare
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:25 pm

Thank you (NOT) Nelson !  Wink

I'm happy for Alonso to win, he deserved it after the Saturday mishap and a whole season of struggling with the car. Lucky rosberg went in one lap earlier than Kubica and still got off well with the penalty. Stable drive from Lewis (seemed like stopped pushing in the last few laps, but he had 6 points in the bag).

Driving behind Trulli must be a pain.
Kimi, should now join the ranks of Piquet, Nakajima and DC in terms of crashing into a wall or somebody else.

It's down to Massa or Lewis for the title, mathematical chances for Kubica.

KS/codeshare
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting Codeshare (Reply 131):
Stable drive from Lewis (seemed like stopped pushing in the last few laps, but he had 6 points in the bag).

He stopped Pushing, because Kimi was out of the Race, so Ferrari wasn't going to pick up points anyway.

He made a smart move to stop pushing really...because the brakes and the Tires were wearing out quickly at that point.
 
astuteman
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:23 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 132):
He made a smart move to stop pushing really...because the brakes and the Tires were wearing out quickly at that point.

A lesson learned from last year?  scratchchin 

Rgds
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:49 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 133):
A lesson learned from last year?

Rgds

Whether he wins or losses this season, I must say that I feel that Lewis Hamilton has learned a lot this year...As has Felipe Massa in my opinion.


Last year..if there were chances that Massa'd have a good race..It was Hit or Miss...because either he'd have a good race...or he'd screw up horribly.

Massa's got a lot more consistent when he's up front. But he's gotta be more agressive if he wants to convince people he deserves to be champion.

To me it just seems that He's a driver...with a great car...who drives the car well...

Hamilton it seems has just learned from his mistakes..Its kinda obvious he still wants to win every race, but he knows a bit more when to go for it...and when to stick up with the car.

Needless to say, I don't think a China Incident will happen this year with him.

[Edited 2008-09-29 14:03:57]
 
B747forever
Posts: 13861
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:43 am



Quoting Sudden (Reply 128):
You can be sure no one missed you!

And everyone loves to hear your comment about that  Yeah sure
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:13 am

Can somebody explain the pit stop/safety car regulation in detail?
It is still not very clear to me.

In the old days of F1 in the 60's they did not have any safety cars or even fuel stops that I can remember.... F1 was more real back then.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5060
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:37 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
Can somebody explain the pit stop/safety car regulation in detail?
It is still not very clear to me.

When a safety car becomes part of the pack, the pit lane is closed for a duration - if you start to pit before this, you are fine, but if you pit while the lane is closed then you get a penalty.

At the race directors discretion, the pit lane can be opened again under the safety car, but this isnt usually until the pack has backed up - hence going into the pit lane under the safety car carries a penalty one way or another, since you can no longer retain your position in the pack under a safety car like you used to.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
In the old days of F1 in the 60's they did not have any safety cars or even fuel stops that I can remember.... F1 was more real back then.

They also had very little safety  Smile Did you see how they refueled cars back then?!
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:34 am

Madame,
To expand a little on what Moo said.
When the clerk of the course decides to deploy a safety car, SC signs and waved yellow flags are displayed at all flag marshall posts, a "Safety Car Deployed" message is also displayed on the teams timing monitors. It is not permitted to enter the pits for any reason until the message "Pit Lane Open" appears on the timing monitors, this usually after the competing cars have formed up in a line behind the safety car.

Hope that helps

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
F1 was more real back then.

A few things that can be done to get the reality back, getting rid of the safety car however is not an option (if for no other reason is you cannot ever do away with anything with "safety" in it's name).
Something that would be good for the TV viewer at least is to use cameras with shorter lenses closer to the track/cars and actually pan to follow the action rather than the extreme follow zoom techniques that make the cars appear almost stationary. Look up videos of the classic races of the '50s-early '70s

Cheers

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
bill142
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:03 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 138):

A few things that can be done to get the reality back, getting rid of the safety car however is not an option

If you go back to calling it the Pace Car you can get rid of it then as it's no longer there for saftey reasons, but to dictate the pace  wink 

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
In the old days of F1 in the 60's they did not have any
safety cars or even fuel stops that I can remember.... F1 was more real back then.

Fuel stops are only included now to make things more exciting. And they certainly are when Felipe Massa drives off while he's still being refuelled. They can quite easily be removed.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:05 am



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 139):
Fuel stops are only included now to make things more exciting.

Yes, the FIA seems to think that pit-lane injuries and fires are more exciting.

I don't remember races being less exciting when cars carried fuel for a full race distance. If anything, pit stops for a quick tyre change were more exciting. Watching heavy cars produce showers of sparks every time they went over a small bump in the first few laps was also pretty cool.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:19 am

Thank you for your great answers!  cheerful 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
bill142
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:44 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 140):

Yes, the FIA seems to think that pit-lane injuries and fires are more exciting.

Is it just my utter disgust for Ferrari or have they had the most refuelling incidents over the past few years? I know during the MS times he had a fire and ran over Nigel Stepney.
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:14 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 142):
I know during the MS times he had a fire and ran over Nigel Stepney.

Hm, In regards to what Stepney was involved in last year, I wonder if above is a good or bad thing.  Wink

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:13 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 140):
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 139):
Fuel stops are only included now to make things more exciting.

Yes, the FIA seems to think that pit-lane injuries and fires are more exciting.

Apparently so. I seemed to hear that the powers that be were trying to work out a system to tag the cars more accurately so they did not need to wait until the crocodile had formed before opening pit lane - which seems half reasonable.

This rubbish about going to one tyre manufacturer and then insisting on cars using a tyre that is not the best for a part of the race. Well why not make them drag an anchor for part of the race too? That would be fun. Or you could spray water on the track for a couple of laps - oh no, I forgot that would advantage you know who.

Hang on, I have a great idea, why not put those with the fastest practice lap at the back for the start. Oh, they might fudge their practice laps. Well put the engines on a dynomometer and those with the highest power start at the back. Seems more "interesting".
 
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Dano1977
Posts: 723
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:32 pm

Generally it was a good grand prix and i enjoyed every minute of it. Allthough at the end of the race i was waiting for the race stewards to come out and say that Lewis Hamiltons Bargeboards were 0.0000000000001mm to thin and deemed illegal.

I did enjoy when the Ferrari Mechanics went running to Massa's car, all cheered on by the McClaren Pit Crew, that was too funny.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:36 pm

I thought this sort of stuff happened only at the Monaco GP.  Embarrassment

Escorts cash in on Grand Prix traffic

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Big spenders in Singapore for the city state's first ever Formula One Grand Prix this weekend have boosted business for high-end social escort agencies by a fifth, a local paper reported Thursday.
...
The agencies said sexual services was not part of the deal but strictly between the escort and client to arrange, the Straits Times reported.  Yeah sure

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/...;_ylt=AiQE.EnfXYN9Feeac5bmGrntiBIF

The main difference being that the escorts in Monaco are self-appointed and it's all tax free...
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:53 pm

It seems that Ferrari don't like Singapore! Signor Montezemolo is not a happy bunny.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7644042.stm

Quote:
"When we race on tracks which should be used for the circus, anything can happen," he told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"This is humiliating for F1 and it is an aspect I want to talk about with the other teams in the next few weeks."

I wonder if his opinion would be different if Ferrari had finished 1-2?  scratchchin 

I'd be surprised if many other teams offer much in the way of support.

Also liked this:

Quote:
"Ferrari went through times much more difficult than this. I expect Massa and Raikkonen to always finish first and second in the three remaining races. In any case, ahead of McLaren.

For Raikkonen to finish second in the remaining three races would require a major step-up in performance. He hasn't managed 2nd place or better for 7 races (not even a single point in the last 4 races!), so I'm not sure where this level of performance is going to come from.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 147):
He hasn't managed 2nd place or better for 7 races (not even a single point in the last 4 races!), so I'm not sure where this level of performance is going to come from.

Law of averages maybe, then again, which average applies?  Big grin

Ferarri folk might want to be careful criticising Singapore. They might find they have offended one of the states "more interesting" laws next time they visit, say in transit to Aus.
 
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EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 2008: Singapore Grand Prix!

Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:46 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 147):
Quote:
"When we race on tracks which should be used for the circus, anything can happen," he told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"This is humiliating for F1 and it is an aspect I want to talk about with the other teams in the next few weeks."

I wonder if his opinion would be different if Ferrari had finished 1-2?

Although a "circus" is an exageration, I agree that it is a wierd track. I like it, and I think some very nice races can come out in future GP's, however it is a track that does not make sense considering that F1 want to see more in-race action. It is almost impossible to pass a car here, monaco style, but we already have Monaco! I would have liked Singapore to have 1 or 2 passing spots, and leave the same as is. The night factor, pure marketing and doesn't affect performance, but overall its useless. In any case, Singapore is here to stay, so there's not much anyone can do about it anymore.

This obviously does not explain the amount of disasters Ferrari have done this season so far. I don't remember the team working so poorly in many years. Engine blow-ups, injured staff during pit-stops, bad driving under rain, gas pump being carried around ... that's not the way a team has to work if they want to have a chance of winning anything  Sad
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...

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