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AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:48 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 98):
Are you equally scared by evangelical Christians who role on the floor and speak in tongues? It happens at many churches.

While the minister stands there screaming about the white devil .... nope.

I know you guys are hooked on Sen Obama , and its your right ... but at least be fair about it.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 99):
Or Palin's speaking-in-tongues church for how many years?

Again , if they were up their preaching about Black people being evil and the Black Devil then I promise you I would feel the same.

Its cool, we will have live with the consequences of our votes ,, I am man enough to do it.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:49 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 95):
Agian, all these claims were not important enough to be brought up a month ago, and all the sudden they are critical.

Of course they are critical. It's neck-and-neck less than one month out. The politicians say they don't want to go negative, but they do, and America wants them too as well. We as people find it "funner" to watch them bash each other's head in....like some kind of Springer show.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 96):
Did u see Palin's church video? The one with witchcraft?

Got a link to it?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 97):
So, apparently, if the polls don't look good then you can go back on your word and play filthy rotten dirty politics with the worst of them. So much for the "straight talking" "maverick." Just another lying wind bag politician.

Master of the obvious, aren't you?  Wink
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:57 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
If Obama was a republican he would not have made it out of the first primaries. Can you imagine a republican who spent 20 years in a Church like that ... please. I saw clips last night on TV of a Rev Wrong sermon , with young men dancing around him in some kind of weird African ritual looking dance thing ... scary. But Sen Obama must not have gone to church that day.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 96):
Did u see Palin's church video? The one with witchcraft?



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 97):
More significantly, McCain himself characterized past attacks on Obama's relationship with his former pastor as unacceptable:

"I'm making it very clear, as I have a couple of times in the past, that there's no place for that kind of campaigning, and the American people don't want it."



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 98):
The bottomline is that McCain/Palin have no choice but to smear Obama. It's their only chance to win. They're both clueless on the economy and domestic policy. On foreign policy, she's clueless and McCain just wants to pick fights which isn't so popular these days.



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 99):
Or Palin's speaking-in-tongues church for how many years?

Let us not forget that Palin's church wanted to also "cure" homosexuals! And Palin herself said she "tolerates" gays. Not that she accepts them mind you, only "tolerates" them.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 102):
Let us not forget that Palin's church wanted to also "cure" homosexuals! And Palin herself said she "tolerates" gays. Not that she accepts them mind you, only "tolerates" them.

Please , your stretching,, and doing back flips to make a equation here.

And that is exactly what most Heterosexuals do ... we are tolerant of gays like any other american .. and respect there choice. What do you want us to do ? So now tolerance is not good enough for you guys ... well come up with another word and we will bow down and comply.

Sexuality has nothing to do with any of this , and making it a issue is dancing on a pin.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:28 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 99):
Can we say Keating Five?

Of which 4 were democrats? Only one of the 5 was reprimanded and two were cleared of any impropriety. Care to name who was reprimanded? Or who were cleared? Lincoln savings and loan cost the taxpayers 2 billion dollars, a paltry amount to the 700 billion that Dodd and Frank, and to some extent Sen. Obama with his work through ACORN has cost us.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 102):
Not that she accepts them mind you, only "tolerates" them.

Proving yet again that you are free to think as you wish, so long as you think as the liberals do. Anything else is wrong and will be stamped out, but of course no one is judging or imposing morals of any sort.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:28 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 103):
Please , your stretching,, and doing back flips to make a equation here.

And that is exactly what most Heterosexuals do ... we are tolerant of gays like any other american .. and respect there choice. What do you want us to do ? So now tolerance is not good enough for you guys ... well come up with another word and we will bow down and comply.

Sexuality has nothing to do with any of this , and making it a issue is dancing on a pin.

She said in the VP debate that her circle of friends and family is very diverse and that she "tolerates" them all, her words and not mine. Tolerates does not mean she likes them, or accepts them, just that she "tolerates" them.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:41 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 94):
If you'd define it the way I'd imagine you would then how about Todd Palin? He belonged to a group that advocates Alaska seceding from the United States, right? And Sarah is married to him!

Why won't anyone discuss this? Is it incorrect? Doesn't it make it sort of ironic for her to question Obama?

"This is not a man who sees America as you and I do — as the greatest force for good in the world.

"This is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country," Palin concluded, in the hardest shot of the statement.


AIP, of which Todd was a member, was founded by a man who said things such as:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag"

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

Hell, Sarah even addressed the AIP convention this year.

Why isn't this worse than the grossly exaggerated relationship between Ayers and Obama.

Is it too inconvenient to address this topic? It's more convenient to pretend she never brought it up and now focus on Rev. Wright?
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5506
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:43 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 100):
While the minister stands there screaming about the white devil .... nope.



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 100):
Again , if they were up their preaching about Black people being evil and the Black Devil then I promise you I would feel the same.

Many of the evangelical churches do. Racism is alive and well in many of America's churches....not just Rev. Wright's.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:46 pm

Dictionary

tolerate

b: to put up with

accept

2: to give admittance or approval to
3 a: to endure without protest or reaction b: to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable c: to recognize as true : believe

Big difference no matter how you try and "Republican" spin it for us.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
na
Posts: 9770
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:09 pm

The worst has happened to the Republicans:

After having supported one of the undoubtedly worst presidents the US ever had for 8 years, they have an almost hilariuos team to follow-on: An old man and a young lady from the woods behind the mountains.
Imagine this scenario: McCain wins, and dies or becomes incapacitated during his term (well, the stress ahead does not rule that out for a man of his advanced age). Then the mightiest country in the world, in one of the worst times the country ever experienced, finally has a female president, and one of a kind not even most Republicans hopefully would like to have: a Palin puppet who has no clue what she´s saying.
God help us if that happens.
 
OlegShv
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:22 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Sorry, but you just walked right into that one. Obama is the least-prepared presidentional candidate since, errr... hell, I can't remember who was the last one who had so little on his resume.

Well, do you think McCain is prepared? McCain is too old. He admitted that he doesn't know squat about economy, neither does Palin (she should be on that Fox show - "Are you smarter than a fifht grader?"). He makes me think of those Politburo dudes in the good old USSR, who could still move around and read their speeches of the paper. Do you really think he will be able to survive his Presidential term if he gets elected?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/opinion/05rich.html?em

Quote:
Now McCain is looking increasingly shaky, whether he’s repeating his “Miss Congeniality” joke twice in the same debate or speaking from notecards even when reciting a line for (literally) the 17th time (“The fundamentals of our economy are strong”) or repeatedly confusing proper nouns that begin with S (Sunni, Shia, Sudan, Somalia, Spain). McCain’s “dismaying temperament,” as George Will labeled it, only thickens the concerns. His kamikaze mission into Washington during the bailout crisis seemed crazed. His seething, hostile debate countenance — a replay of Al Gore’s sarcastic sighing in 2000 — didn’t make the deferential Obama look weak (as many Democrats feared) but elevated him into looking like the sole presidential grown-up.

 
PSA727
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:57 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 96):
Did u see Palin's church video? The one with witchcraft?

Yeah, it was odd, but that was visiting pastor. What was Jeremiah Wright's role at the
Trinity Baptist Church? Did you see the pictures of Obama dressed in muslim attire when
he went to see his father and family in Kenya? Does that now mean that he's a muslim?

Quoting NA (Reply 109):
Then the mightiest country in the world, in one of the worst times the country ever experienced, finally has a female president, and one of a kind not even most Republicans hopefully would like to have: a Palin puppet who has no clue what she´s saying.

Puppet presidents? Are we talking about the U.S. or Russia?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 106):
AIP, of which Todd was a member, was founded by a man
who said things such as:

And how long ago was that?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 106):
Hell, Sarah even addressed the AIP convention this year.

And the Democrats in the South used to support segregation, should we still hold that
against them and not address them?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:38 pm



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 111):
Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 106):
AIP, of which Todd was a member, was founded by a man
who said things such as:

And how long ago was that?

AIP was founded in 1984 , some of the quotes I provided were from 1991.
Todd Palin was a member from 1995 - 2002 with brief exception.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 111):
And the Democrats in the South used to support segregation, should we still hold that
against them and not address them?

Huh? You're making my argument, no?
I'm saying that Sarah Palin should be careful of her attack tactics as they can easily be used on her (more effectively too). Now you're telling me they could be used on Democrats? They already are. That's the point.

If the Palins' AIP involvement is "too long ago" to be valid, then why is Ayer's past not? Moreover, the connection between Obama and Ayers is minor at most.

Palin and McCain's game is disingenuous and politically dangerous.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:36 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 108):
Many of the evangelical churches do. Racism is alive and well in many of America's churches....not just Rev. Wright's.

No they dont . Period Next.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:55 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 112):
If the Palins' AIP involvement is "too long ago" to be valid, then why is Ayer's past not?

Why do you keep with this silly apples and oranges comparison? It doesn't matter what Ayers group and AIP said......one placed bombs in federal buildings and the other did not. It is against no law to discuss secession, I find that doing so often reminds the feds who the real boss is in this country, the states. The feds need the states and not vice versa.
 
PSA727
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:59 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 112):
If the Palins' AIP involvement is "too long ago" to be valid, then why is Ayer's past not? Moreover, the connection between Obama and Ayers is minor at most.

Is there an actual effort for Alaska to secede from the U.S.? Are they bombing government
buildings? Sounds like a club, more than a revolutionary movement. And didn't Michelle
Obama actually work for Bill Ayers's father? So Bill Ayers was hangin' low in Chicago in
the 90s? He never did any community organizing in the poorer neighboods? I wonder what
so impressed him about Obama that he was willing to offer his home to help launch his bid
for the State Senate without ever having met him. Was it change? Or was it hope?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:11 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 114):
Why do you keep with this silly apples and oranges comparison? It doesn't matter what Ayers group and AIP said......one placed bombs in federal buildings and the other did not. It is against no law to discuss secession, I find that doing so often reminds the feds who the real boss is in this country, the states. The feds need the states and not vice versa.

One of the Palin's was a member of AIP.

Obama doesn't have much of a relationship with Ayers. He's certainly never been a member of his "organization."

Palin and McCain are using dirty, misleading smear tactics. You can try to defend their statements all you like.

Hopefully most Americans are smart enough to see through it. I have more faith in people than to assume they are that easily fooled. To be that easily fooled, you'd have to truly be "Joe Six-Pack."
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:16 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
I saw clips last night on TV of a Rev Wrong sermon , with young men dancing around him in some kind of weird African ritual looking dance thing ... scary.

Wow. African dancing at an African-American church. Yeah, that's really out of place.  Yeah sure

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 117):
Wow. African dancing at an African-American church. Yeah, that's really out of place.

It's easy to think like that when you live in the 'White Flight' state of Arizona.
I'd be interested in seeing footage of Sarah Palin lurching around on the floor and trembling at her Pentecostal church. This is a normal act of worship in the Pentecostal church.
I am surprised that hasn't been brought up. The Obama campaign is sophisticated enough to not make a big deal about that.
Bring back the Concorde
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:35 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 116):
Palin and McCain are using dirty, misleading smear tactics. You can try to defend their statements all you like.

Agree completely  thumbsup  (perhaps not with "misleading", that depends on perspective).

That's how you win an American election in 2008. Rest assured the Democrats have began dipping into their bag-o-mud and are about to start slinging.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:40 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 119):
Rest assured the Democrats have began dipping into their bag-o-mud and are about to start slinging.

Or just reminding the voters of McCain's past association with the Keating 5.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:52 pm

After slinging mud what else do they have to rely on?

Obama widens lead in national poll
Barack Obama has widened his lead over John McCain to 8 points in the race for the White House, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research poll. The survey suggests that the country's financial crisis, record low approval ratings for President Bush and a drop in the public's perception of McCain's running mate could be contributing to Obama's gains

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/06/poll.of.polls/index.html
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 118):
It's easy to think like that when you live in the 'White Flight' state of Arizona.

What? Hispanics make up 30% of the population, Native Americans make up another 5% or so, so calling Arizona a White Flight state is mistaken.

But back to the campaign; the race is really down to Obama and Palin. This happens when McCain decided to choose a running mate that will overshadow him with the press. Obama/Biden and Palin talk about the future, McCain is much like Bob Dole, who also didn't have a vision for the future. So with a month to go, the 2008 election is now an Obama-Palin race - and the only person who doesn't seem to know it is Mr. Past, poor old John McCain.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:04 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 122):
What? Hispanics make up 30% of the population, Native Americans make up another 5% or so, so calling Arizona a White Flight state is mistaken.

Well aware of that and that is a very recent trend in Arizona. It used to be a 'White Flight' state back when John McCain was first elected. Keep in mind, John McCain was against the creation of a Martin Luther King holiday.

Here is a little background on the issue. Now if Obama were to bring this up, he'd be labeled a race-baiter. Of course, Obama has more important issues to talk about that the voters also want to hear about.
Yeah, McCain has real leadership, NOT!  Yeah sure
http://www.aznetroots.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=540

Quoting AirCop (Reply 122):
This happens when McCain decided to choose a running mate that will overshadow him with the press. Obama/Biden and Palin talk about the future, McCain is much like Bob Dole, who also didn't have a vision for the future. So with a month to go, the 2008 election is now an Obama-Palin race - and the only person who doesn't seem to know it is Mr. Past, poor old John McCain.

You are correct on all counts.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:08 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 123):
Keep in mind, John McCain was against the creation of a Martin Luther King holiday.

As was the Mormon church, which has a big voting bloc in the East Valley (Mesa/Gilbert etc) and rural Arizona. Even today, the official title is Civil Rights Day, not MLK day.

[Edited 2008-10-06 16:19:46]
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:17 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 124):
As was the Mormon church, which has a big voting bloc in the East Valley (Mesa/Gilbert etc) and rural Arizona.

Wow, I totally forgot all about that but you are right.
In the past, Arizona has been seen as a sanctuary state of those that want to have a Lilly White utopia free of Blacks, Hispanics and Asians.
Of course that was short lived as the spoiled housewives in Scottsdale needed maids, businesses needed laborers and those people have started their own families as well. So now you have a diverse states all over again.
Arizona's opposition to the King holiday was their way of saying 'certain people aren't wanted here'.
McCain showed no leadership on this issue that brought lots of negative attention to this state.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MOBflyer
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:42 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:39 pm



Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
This campagin even has the audacity to question Obama's patriotism!

That's what I've been questioning all along. His extremist ties, his lack of a flag pin, his reluctance to place his hand over his heart, etc. I have substantial respect for all other major contenders of this race (Biden, Palin, McCain). But is this that bars Obama from garnering any bit of my respect.

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
They seem to be forgetting they're addressing a Senator?

The senator of 144 days that feels as though that not only qualifies him to be president, but also talk down to a senator of higher stature, more experience, and former first lady.

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
How can the GOP get away with something like this?

Get away with informing the public that they guy in the lead is a shady character with questionable ambitions for becoming president?

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
I think this will sway the momentum to the McCain campaign. Amazing that a campaign with little or no substance (McCain/Palin campaign) might end up winning the presidency again.

How exactly is the McCain campaign the one of little/no substance. Obama is running on the wow-factor of his race and the perfectly crafted speeches that he reads from his teleprompter.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Sorry but bringing this stuff up is not bad politics at all. There are some of us out here who are concerned about someone in the white house who has these people in there background. There money and support helped him get to where he is .... they may ask for a return of favor sometime.

EXACTLY

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Even if Sen Obama wins , my mind will not be changed . Bill Ayers should be shot for treason and Rev Wright is a racist hate promoter who makes cash by scaring his flock. He hates white people , and the US .... and actively promotes militancy and revenge.

THAT'S TWO IN A ROW!

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
If Obama was a republican he would not have made it out of the first primaries. Can you imagine a republican who spent 20 years in a Church like that ... please. I saw clips last night on TV of a Rev Wrong sermon , with young men dancing around him in some kind of weird African ritual looking dance thing ... scary. But Sen Obama must not have gone to church that day.

THIRD TIME's THE CHARM!

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 105):
She said in the VP debate that her circle of friends and family is very diverse and that she "tolerates" them all, her words and not mine. Tolerates does not mean she likes them, or accepts them, just that she "tolerates" them.

Tolerance mandates acceptance. It doesn't mandate embracement. I tolerate and am okay with gays, but I don't embrace or condone it.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 108):
Many of the evangelical churches do. Racism is alive and well in many of America's churches....not just Rev. Wright's.

A few unfortunate churches, yes. But you are incorrect in you characterization of "many"

Quoting NA (Reply 109):
Imagine this scenario: McCain wins, and dies or becomes incapacitated during his term (well, the stress ahead does not rule that out for a man of his advanced age). Then the mightiest country in the world, in one of the worst times the country ever experienced, finally has a female president, and one of a kind not even most Republicans hopefully would like to have: a Palin puppet who has no clue what she´s saying.

She would be one of the best and most refreshing presidents ever.

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 110):
Well, do you think McCain is prepared? McCain is too old. He admitted that he doesn't know squat about economy, neither does Palin (she should be on that Fox show - "Are you smarter than a fifht grader?"). He makes me think of those Politburo dudes in the good old USSR, who could still move around and read their speeches of the paper. Do you really think he will be able to survive his Presidential term if he gets elected?

Do you really think Obama will make it to inaguration? While I definately hope so (albeit in the audience), its just as important to ask that of Obama as you have done McCain.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 112):
If the Palins' AIP involvement is "too long ago" to be valid, then why is Ayer's past not? Moreover, the connection between Obama and Ayers is minor at most.

Is Todd Palin running from anything? And I've yet to see anything credibly indicating Mr. Palin's involvement in this organization.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 124):
Even today, the official title is Civil Rights Day, not MLK day.

As it should be. There are far more influential people of the Civil Rights Movements than just MLK, especially in grassroots and otherwise local efforts.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:46 pm



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
There are far more influential people of the Civil Rights Movements than just MLK, especially in grassroots and otherwise local efforts.

Name some of your favorites.
Bull Connor?
Bring back the Concorde
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:03 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
his lack of a flag pin

So... you only respect people who wear flag pins? Do you wear a flag pin?

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
She would be one of the best and most refreshing presidents ever.

I'm pretty confident you're very wrong about that. Hopefully we'll never know.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
Is Todd Palin running from anything? And I've yet to see anything credibly indicating Mr. Palin's involvement in this organization.

Is Ayers running for anything?
Mr. Palin's involvement is hardly in dispute. The only argument is maybe that he wasn't "all that active."

The point of all of this is that we should be talking about more important things rather than weave together a bunch of history, half-truths and lies to try to smear any candidate.

If you are afraid of Obama then don't vote for him. It's one thing to disagree with his platform as too liberal. That is respectable. To smear his character and paint him as "not like us" and "dangerous" is just hateful scaremongering and yet a sad commentary on the state of politics in this country.

Isn't there bigger stuff to talk about than this? Or is this nation actually filled with morons?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:12 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 128):
If you are afraid of Obama then don't vote for him. It's one thing to disagree with his platform as too liberal. That is respectable. To smear his character and paint him as "not like us" and "dangerous" is just hateful scaremongering and yet a sad commentary on the state of politics in this country.

The bigots are scared $h!tless over the Obama candidacy. The next 4 weeks will be very ugly and we are going to see some of the ugliest elements in America rear their hate and bigotry.
Here is an example right in MOBflyer's backyard.

http://www.dothaneagle.com/dea/news/...ch_local_national_attention/39672/
Bring back the Concorde
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:14 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
This campagin even has the audacity to question Obama's patriotism!

That's what I've been questioning all along. His extremist ties, his lack of a flag pin, his reluctance to place his hand over his heart, etc. I have substantial respect for all other major contenders of this race (Biden, Palin, McCain). But is this that bars Obama from garnering any bit of my respect.

WHAT? Is he applying for membership of some secret society?

When you can figure out something substantive in the way of criticism try again. Does holding your hand on your heart solve the financial crisis? Not if we go from the results of the efforts of GWB. By the way, is it still OK putting your hand on your heart when you clearly do not have one?

Also BTW is this still operative "Our economy, I think still---the fundamentals of our economy are strong"? If it is, do let us know what it is apart from fundamentals that is causing the current set of problems. And why are those other problems not fundamental?
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:16 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Bill Ayers should be shot for treason

Wasn't Obama about 8 years of age when Ayers was doing his bombing actions? According to the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, all claim there is no close relationship between Obama and Ayers.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 127):
Name some of your favorites.

Wondering the same, since he is from Alabama.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
She would be one of the best and most refreshing presidents ever.

You have got to be kidding..

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
How exactly is the McCain campaign the one of little/no substance.

Appears the economy is the #1 issue with voters, and McCain campaign today stated that he won't talk about. Sounds like his campaign is running off the tracks with the issues that concern the voters.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
Do you really think Obama will make it to inaguration?

What? You're telling us the Secret Service won't be able to protect him?

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):

Get away with informing the public that they guy in the lead is a shady character with questionable ambitions

What has McCain offered, besides having a desire to be President? Shady character: Keating 5, The Reform Institute, Cablevision, and Bill Paxson.
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:21 am



Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
I think this will sway the momentum to the McCain campaign. Amazing that a campaign with little or no substance (McCain/Palin campaign) might end up winning the presidency again.

Hmmmm, I'm trying to remember when they won it the first time.  wink 

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Can you imagine a republican who spent 20 years in a Church like that ..

Even more so, can you imagine what the media and folks around here would be spewing if those kids in those video tapes had been singing the praises of Sen. McCain? I can hear the calls of "robots" and "brain washed" right now. They would have gotten far more air time and vilification that they did since it was for Sen. Obama.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 127):
Bull Connor?

Well Larry, if Bull wasn't influential in a negative way then would Dr. King have had as much traction in a positive way as he did? Bull Connor, by opening up the fire hoses and letting the dogs loose probably did more for the civil rights cause than any number of marches, sit ins, and protests that Dr. King had up to that point wouldn't you agree?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 128):
The point of all of this is that we should be talking about more important things rather than weave together a bunch of history, half-truths and lies to try to smear any candidate.

Unfortunately when one candidate has virtually no record to run on and no series of decisions that one can look back on you have to rely on past associations and personal decisions to get some measure of what the person is about. It's very easy to look at Sen. McCain's political record since it is 20 some years long. Not so with Sen. Obama since he has had a propensity to vote "present" and has barely warmed a seat before being up and out looking for a new job. It's easy to talk about the issues but most people want to see some sort of record to back up the talk. Unfortunately for Sen. Obama that includes some serious negatives.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:21 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 130):
When you can figure out something substantive in the way of criticism try again. Does holding your hand on your heart solve the financial crisis? Not if we go from the results of the efforts of GWB. By the way, is it still OK putting your hand on your heart when you clearly do not have one?

Also BTW is this still operative "Our economy, I think still---the fundamentals of our economy are strong"? If it is, do let us know what it is apart from fundamentals that is causing the current set of problems. And why are those other problems not fundamental?

 checkmark 

Why isn't George W. Bush out on the campaign trail with McCain / Palin?
Granted Bush has a 22% approval rating, McCain should be proud and boast about continuing Bush's policies. Since McCain is continuing Bush's policies, he should he should have the man himself on the campaign trail with him.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:31 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 133):
Well Larry, if Bull wasn't influential in a negative way then would Dr. King have had as much traction in a positive way as he did? Bull Connor, by opening up the fire hoses and letting the dogs loose probably did more for the civil rights cause than any number of marches, sit ins, and protests that Dr. King had up to that point wouldn't you agree?

MOBflyer should be man enough to answer his own questions.
I'd just like to hear who he thinks is a more important Civil Rights leader considering he is a conservative that lives down in Alabama.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:33 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
his lack of a flag pin,

Did you notice that McCain didn't wear a flag label pin during the 1st debate, while Obama did?

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
his reluctance to place his hand over his heart, etc.

It wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance..

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
But is this that bars Obama from garnering any bit of my respect.

Then you're a very shallow person.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
She would be one of the best and most refreshing presidents ever.

I guess you didn't read that Palin said in San Francisco yesterday that Afghanistan is a neighboring country to the USA.

Personally, I would rather have someone work on problems, than name calling.
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 131):
Wasn't Obama about 8 years of age when Ayers was doing his bombing actions?

Which makes any association with him, especially since he is unrepentant, that much more questionable. Obama was also only about 8 when Charlie Manson and friends committed their crimes. Would you have the same reaction if you found out that Sen. Obama had anything to do with Charles Manson, who is also unrepentant for his crimes?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 131):
According to the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, all claim there is no close relationship between Obama and Ayers.

I would expect nothing less.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 134):
MOBflyer should be man enough to answer his own questions.

Then I guess that means you agree with my summation?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:42 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 136):
Then I guess that means you agree with my summation?

Important in the way that Osama Bin Laden is important. Bull Connor is not deserving of a national holiday. If you re-read MOBflyer's post, he claims that there are more important Civil Rights leaders deserving of a holiday besides Martin Luther King.
Now let MOBflyer answer the question.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:45 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 86):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Palin, it's too early to tell, although her reputation as mayor and governor is that of a realist.

When Palin took over the mayor's office the town had no debt. When she left the town had $22 million in debt. She sounds like Bush in that area.

By your standard, someone who goes from zero debt and renting an apartment, and who buys a house with a mortgage is worse off? Ridiculous.

If you take debt to pay for your day-to-day expenses, that is bad. But from the reports I have read, the debts in Wasilla were to pay for infrastructure projects. Tha's perfectly fine, within limits..

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
This campagin even has the audacity to question Obama's patriotism!

Good.

Quoting Hkg82 (Reply 87):
They seem to be forgetting they're addressing a Senator?

So? He's a public servant answerable to the people, not a member of some nobility.

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 110):
Well, do you think McCain is prepared? McCain is too old. He admitted that he doesn't know squat about economy, neither does Palin (she should be on that Fox show - "Are you smarter than a fifht grader?"). He makes me think of those Politburo dudes in the good old USSR, who could still move around and read their speeches of the paper. Do you really think he will be able to survive his Presidential term if he gets elected?

He seems perfectly healthy, and out-campaigned people 25 years younger by stripping down his campaign and literally carrying his own bags all over the country back when his candidacy was all but written off. I know 30 year olds who don't have that energy.

As for Palin, she seems pretty sharp to me. Of course you won't see what you don't want to see.

I heard some comments from some typically silly college Obamatrons. After watching the debate, their comments were like "I love Obama, but now that I've heard her, I don't understand why I'm supposed to hate her."
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:53 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 137):
Bull Connor is not deserving of a national holiday.

Nor did I say so.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 137):
If you re-read MOBflyer's post, he claims that there are more important Civil Rights leaders deserving of a holiday besides Martin Luther King.

I read it the first time, I also read....

Quoting Superfly (Reply 127):
Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
There are far more influential people of the Civil Rights Movements than just MLK, especially in grassroots and otherwise local efforts.

Name some of your favorites.
Bull Connor?

To which I responded that yes, in a negative way, Bull Conner was more influential than MLK in Birmingham, at that time. If not for his decisions then would we have MLK's "Letter from Birmingham Jail? If not for his heavy handed tactics would anyone have cared if blacks were arrested in Birmingham AL? They certainly didn't care for decades before that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
MOBflyer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:30 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 128):
So... you only respect people who wear flag pins? Do you wear a flag pin?

Of course I respect people that don't wear flag pins. Its not the flag pin per se, but when you hold what amounts of a press conference when you don't where it for a while, then another when you start wearing it, that bothers me. And yes, when I wear a suit, I wear a flag pin.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 130):
. Does holding your hand on your heart solve the financial crisis? Not if we go from the results of the efforts of GWB. By the way, is it still OK putting your hand on your heart when you clearly do not have one?

You cannot blame W for this. The executive branch only has power to enforce laws and regulations made by the legislative branch. Blame your congressmen or their nay voting chamber neighbor for not enacting legislation that called for increased regulation. (Which McCain introduced, BTW)

Quoting Baroque (Reply 130):
"Our economy, I think still---the fundamentals of our economy are strong"? If it is, do let us know what it is apart from fundamentals that is causing the current set of problems. And why are those other problems not fundamental?

And would you argue that the fundamentals of the economy lie in the workforce? McCain was stating that our workforce and work ethic are unwavering and that as fundamentals, they are strong.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 131):
What? You're telling us the Secret Service won't be able to protect him?

I surely hope so. It would be a national tragedy (to say the least) for someone that so many have invested themselves in to be killed. However, people that are determined are unstoppable, and there are, unfortunately, those kinds of people out there.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 131):
What has McCain offered, besides having a desire to be President?

McCain brings with him decades of experience and wisdom, rational energy policies, and unparrlelled foreign relations attributes.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 134):
MOBflyer should be man enough to answer his own questions.
I'd just like to hear who he thinks is a more important Civil Rights leader considering he is a conservative that lives down in Alabama.

MLK was not a bad person, by any means, and I mean not to belittle him - but the appropriate title for the day is and should be Civil Rights Day, as a tribute to the thousands who gave, risked, or endured their lives for the great cause.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 135):
Did you notice that McCain didn't wear a flag label pin during the 1st debate, while Obama did?

No I didn't, and that doesn't bother me as much as someone essentially brags about it.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 135):
It wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance..

Its in the national code to place your hand over your heart for both the Pledge of Allegiance and the Star Spangled Banner - and includes provisions for headwear, etc.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 135):
Then you're a very shallow person.

Or deep, depending on how you define shallow and deep. You can be the best qualified and still garner no respect from a critical viewpoint.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 135):
I guess you didn't read that Palin said in San Francisco yesterday that Afghanistan is a neighboring country to the USA.

I guess you didn't hear (and it doesn't surprise me, given your likely pick of news stations) that Obama not only visited 57 states, but still had some to go! People make mistakes, and I very much imagine that she was referring to them as our neighbor in the global world... which isn't untrue in the slightest.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 137):
If you re-read MOBflyer's post, he claims that there are more important Civil Rights leaders deserving of a holiday besides Martin Luther King.

see above
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:30 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
Get away with informing the public that they guy in the lead is a shady character with questionable ambitions for becoming president?

What about the guy who cheated on his wife? Can we trust him? If he cheats on his wife, what else might he be cheating on?

Personally, I don't think McCain's cheating is relevant, but if we want to play the character assasination game, then its fair game.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
She would be one of the best and most refreshing presidents ever.

Why? She has no ability to intelligently speak about any issue. We have never seen Palin speak intelligently about anything. She does however believe in raising taxes as a way of fixing budgetary problems....though Republicans don't like to talk about that.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 126):
his lack of a flag pin

Do you wear a flag pin at all times? If not, I guess you're not patriotic. I saw McCain on TV and he wasn't wearing a flag pin, I guess he's not patriotic either. Get real.
 
baroque
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 141):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 130):
"Our economy, I think still---the fundamentals of our economy are strong"? If it is, do let us know what it is apart from fundamentals that is causing the current set of problems. And why are those other problems not fundamental?

And would you argue that the fundamentals of the economy lie in the workforce? McCain was stating that our workforce and work ethic are unwavering and that as fundamentals, they are strong.

Interesting attempt to get out from a major blunder.

Back on Friday, September 19, 2008

Sixty percent (60%) of Americans now believe the U.S. economy is not fundamentally sound, and voters are evenly divided on whether any laws passed by Congress will make things better, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...economy_is_not_fundamentally_sound

I imagine a newer survey gets even more than 60% of that view.

So what has happened. McCain was simply wrong. US workers are not the eager beavers and the ethic is a bit off.

You might as well say the economy is sound because the middle of the US has not yet sunk below sea level.

Try owning the statements of your pin ups, rather than duck shovelling to get out from under their BS.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 133):
Unfortunately when one candidate has virtually no record to run on and no series of decisions that one can look back on you have to rely on past associations and personal decisions to get some measure of what the person is about.

I would agree to some degree, but in the case of Ayers there is really no association to speak of. Unless you're basically a liar. In the case of Reverend Wright, Obama addressed it eloquently and even McCain said he didn't want those sorts of things to be apart of his campaign. Again... a liar.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 133):
It's easy to talk about the issues but most people want to see some sort of record to back up the talk.

McCain and Palin aren't even talking about issues let alone backing up the talk.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 133):
Unfortunately for Sen. Obama that includes some serious negatives.

Negatives such as?
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:11 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 141):
McCain brings with him decades of experience and wisdom, rational energy policies, and unparrlelled foreign relations attributes.

McCain has been one of my senators for the past 13 years, I would respectfully disagree with the above, but that's okay. - I had a professor that was a POW for longer than McCain, and he would/has disagreed with the McCain image as a hero as a POW.- Oh yes, he was a far right conservative that was elected twice to the State Senate from my district, actually he was a really nice guy..
 
AirportSeven
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:57 am



McCain: "In short, who is the real Barack Obama?"

Crowd: "Terrorist!"

McCain: "But, my friends, you ask such questions, and all you get in response is another barrage of angry insults."

You sure do, Senator. You sure do. Your supporters just proved that for you.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:12 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 135):
I guess you didn't read that Palin said in San Francisco yesterday that Afghanistan is a neighboring country to the USA.

Source?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 143):
I would agree to some degree, but in the case of Ayers there is really no association to speak of.

Even the New York Times piece which did backflips to cover up Obama's association with Ayers could not do so effectively. Conveniently, details of their relationship were released last week amid all the press attention on the economy.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/0...on-nothing-to-see-here-move-along/

Basically, Bill Ayers hired Obama to implement the radical educational reforms he espouses. The foundation, under Ayers' instructions via Obama, was not spent on schools but on funding similarly radical groups with agendas based on indoctrinating kids, such as Acorn.

Doesn't it bother anyone that if Obama were to apply for a job at CIA, NSA or the FBI, he would have to get past an FBI background check, and his relationship with radicals such as Ayers, Wright, and Acorn would almost certainly ensure that he would not get the job? But a background check is apparently unnecessary for the Presidency.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:24 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 143):
I would agree to some degree, but in the case of Ayers there is really no association to speak of. Unless you're basically a liar.

There are several boards that they were on together, and a party that Ayers hosted for Sen. Obama. I would ask again,

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 136):
Quoting AirCop (Reply 131):
Wasn't Obama about 8 years of age when Ayers was doing his bombing actions?

Which makes any association with him, especially since he is unrepentant, that much more questionable. Obama was also only about 8 when Charlie Manson and friends committed their crimes. Would you have the same reaction if you found out that Sen. Obama had anything to do with Charles Manson, who is also unrepentant for his crimes?



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 143):
McCain said he didn't want those sorts of things to be apart of his campaign. Again... a liar.

His official campaign still does not talk about Rev. Wright. 527 groups are not bound by his wishes anymore than MoveOn.org is beholden to Sen. Obama's wishes.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 143):
McCain and Palin aren't even talking about issues let alone backing up the talk.

Correct and I think that is a mistake. They should spend 40-50% on what they want to do in terms of the issues, 30% on their records and why that makes them capable leaders, and 20% of their time on Sen. Obama's shortcomings to include virtually no private enterprise work, virtually no executive experience, and questionable associations in his past.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 143):
Negatives such as?

His ultra liberal voting record. His past relationships with Professor Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Tony Rezko. 47 years old and he already has 3 very questionable people in his past. ACORN and it's connection to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as voter fraud. Those would be good starting points.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
dc-9-10
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:25 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 146):
Doesn't it bother anyone that if Obama were to apply for a job at CIA, NSA or the FBI, he would have to get past an FBI background check, and his relationship with radicals such as Ayers, Wright, and Acorn would almost certainly ensure that he would not get the job? But a background check is apparently unnecessary for the Presidency.

It doesn't bother me at all. Free press and elections are the ultimate background check. The American public gets to decide if they are the right person for the job.

Dc-9-10
 
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 4

Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:18 am



Quoting Dc-9-10 (Reply 148):
It doesn't bother me at all. Free press and elections are the ultimate background check. The American public gets to decide if they are the right person for the job.

Who do you think is more reliable and trustworthy - FBI agents or journalists?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
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