David L
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 99):
There are people who proclaim to believe and a truly horrible people I'll agree with you there. However understanding something and living it are two different things. They may really believe but for whatever reason as human beings they struggle with the living it part. Or in some cases I believe they do not really get it or are immature in their belief. If they did they would be kind or at least strive to be.

Sorry to be blunt but you'll just have to accept that I knew these people very well and you have almost certainly never met them. When I say they believed in God, I mean they believed God created the universe, that Jesus was the son of God, etc, and that evolution is nonsense. They went to church and did a lot of charity work. They believed that God was judging them, and me, all the time... and yet they still managed to be "bad people". The point I'm making is that someone who is a good person "because they believe in God" would probably be a good person anyway because "that's the way they are".

If you mean they were good people while they remembered that they were Christians, then I'd agree - I'm always more careful about how I behave when my boss is in the room at work. I have never seen any correlation between how much someone believes in God and how good they are as a person.
 
iairallie
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:18 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 100):
Sorry to be blunt but you'll just have to accept that I knew these people very well and you have almost certainly never met them. When I say they believed in God, I mean they believed God created the universe, that Jesus was the son of God, etc, and that evolution is nonsense. They went to church and did a lot of charity work. They believed that God was judging them, and me, all the time... and yet they still managed to be "bad people".

I don't disagree with you.

Quoting David L (Reply 100):
The point I'm making is that someone who is a good person "because they believe in God" would probably be a good person anyway because "that's the way they are".

I don't think I'm a good person because I believe in God. In fact there are times I don't feel like I am a good person at all. I do think I am a better ME because of my beliefs. My beliefs don't make me perfect or any less human. I think they help focus and channel my efforts better. I think they show me I can be better by giving me a good role model of pure love. I also think it helps draw me out of my naturally selfish shell. Can you be good without religion. Of course you can. Some people are very blessed to have natural kindness I wish I was one of them.

The point of my religion though isn't just to be a good person. I belive my purpose here on earth is to learn, progress and improve myself through trials and experiences especially tailored to my developmental needs. My religion is Gods gift to me to help me accomplish that purpose.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
David L
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:28 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 101):
I do think I am a better ME because of my beliefs.

No you're not. Oh, wait... I don't know, do I?  Smile

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 101):
My beliefs don't make me perfect or any less human. I think they help focus and channel my efforts better. I think they show me I can be better by giving me a good role model of pure love. I also think it helps draw me out of my naturally selfish shell. Can you be good without religion. Of course you can. Some people are very blessed to have natural kindness I wish I was one of them.

Again, that's reasonable. But you have to look at the post I was disagreeing with...

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 95):
Guess what? a connection to God, makes you not only feel good and eliminate ill feelings which most of us experience everyday. They make your day a lot better.

While I was revisiting that I noticed this:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 95):
Prayer even has a calming effect on non-believers and leaves them thinking.

I'd like to see some evidence for that. I could believe it of people who aren't sure but certainly not of "non-believers". What possible benefit of prayer can there possibly be for a "non-believer"? You probably don't want to know what it leaves them thinking.  Smile
 
miamix707
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:32 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 96):
A lot of mass murderers have acted "because God told them to"

So you wouldn't believe Jesus but you'd conveniently believe what a murderer said? haha, c'mon now... please give me a better excuse than that!  Smile

I would never believe it, would you believe that? In the Bible, God states one should not murder. Doesn't matter if it's men, women,young or old (unlike a religion I shall not name that conveniently only makes exception for women and children)

Quoting David L (Reply 96):
I've known about the same proportion of nasty people who believe as those who don't

Your example is people, and people are quite imperfect. I have very close friends including an agnostic and a homosexual (who's somewhat still in the closet) that are closer to me at the friendship level than some others who believe just like me. But since your giving me this example, I can tell you believers usually make for less selfish, more faithful soul mates.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 97):
Oh yes. Because banning school prayer has directly caused school shootings. And as soon as you can provide the evidence for such a statement, I will lead the parade in favor of school prayer.

I think even if I offered you proof, you'd still dislike prayer and anything that has to do with believing in God. For starters you really dislike how the Bible states God feels about homosexuality and so is your attitude against anything christian.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 97):
Are you calling me a liar? Answer the question directly.

Am I liar?

I will answer it for you; YOU ARE

we all have lied, you haven't? People even learn to lie to themselves!

By the way Doc, when one repeats and keeps believing in one's head "I'm really this way" it becomes your reality, and (in your mind) you accept that as true. Just like many who say "i can't do that", and have low self esteem, but in actuality they really can. It's all in your mind. Ultiimately the devil yes, Satan, is responsible for many of these negative thoughts to confuse people.
 
David L
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
So you wouldn't believe Jesus but you'd conveniently believe what a murderer said? haha, c'mon now... please give me a better excuse than that!

 confused  You've missed the point. I give equal credence to those who claim God told them to do good things as I do to people who claim God told them to do bad things. You can't just pick and choose to suit your argument.


Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
Your example is people, and people are quite imperfect.

 confused  There's not much point in talking about people without, um, talking about people, is there? You claimed that religion makes better people. I dispute that.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
I will answer it for you; YOU ARE

 eyepopping  Charming. Good luck with that attitude.
 
GDB
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:42 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 95):
Guess what? a connection to God, makes you not only feel good and eliminate ill feelings which most of us experience everyday. They make your day a lot better. Prayer even has a calming effect on non-believers and leaves them thinking. One thing is for sure, after school prayer was banned in America, kids attitudes in public schools have gone downhill since.

Well if it works for them, good for 'em.
Despite the stuff America's own Christian Fundamentalists spout (between giving money to some TV fraud with a bad wig), those of us not tied to a faith, our choice, experience the full spectrum of human emotions too.
You are no better than us.

The big lie of some US fundamentalists, that there is some massive plot by athiests to do down Christianity.
No there is not, never has been.
That's the different you see, most athiests do not trouble to impose on others beliefs.

What attitudes in what schools?
I bet a school in a wealthier area, where the kids will be rather more likely to go on to a productive career, of thier choice, will have less behaviour issues in a sink school in a deprived area.
Not 100% true for both, but much more likely.

This whole attitude, 'we are better than you', smacks of the very Mid East extremists you are so scared of.
'Our women wear the veil, because they are more pure, unlike yours'.
'We pray 5 times a day, that makes us better than you'.
'We punish those who go outside our (very narrow) rules, by exercising freedom of choice, because we are better than you'.
'Democracy is decadent'.
BS.

Please explain why Canada, also with high levels of gun ownership, has far fewer violent deaths by shooting, per population, than the US.
Are they less religious?
(Clue - they are).
But that's not the reason is it, however, this cuts both ways.

A look at history, beyond some fanciful Norman Rockwell painted image, shows societies as very often more violent than now.
From the Wild West to lynchings (the latter usually done by those who saw themselves as Christian), from the unrest of the great depression, to the 19th Century gang violence in places like New York.

Seems to me not very christian, to label those who do not subscribe to your beliefs, as less of a person.
But that's not the christian society I was brought up in, moderate, concerned with helping others, good neighbourliness.

Frankly, I'd be rather concerned if my faith led me to be so judgemental, does not seem to me a very strong foundation for belief.
Such negativity is not a sign of being at ease with yourself, surely that's the whole point of it?
 
David L
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:32 pm

I was so distracted by your accusation that someone I assume you've never met is lying about a fundamental part of who they are that I missed another of your gems...

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
Ultiimately the devil yes, Satan, is responsible for many of these negative thoughts to confuse people.

This is one of the arguments that makes religion such a breeze to defend. If it's "good", my God did it. If it's "bad", it's nothing to do with us.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
It's all in your mind.

Homosexuality is "all in the mind"? Wow! So I guess any straight person can just "decide" they'd like to be gay (and vice versa) and... Hey Presto? I won't lie and say I'm completely comfortable with the idea of homosexuality but... come on! You can't "decide" which gender can turn you on and which can't. How can you deny something like this...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 97):
I CHOSE to be straight. Only to learn that I didn't get a choice in the matter and then had to come out later in life, at 25, which was quite difficult and awkward.

A lot of gay people face an enormous struggle to come to terms with it. I really don't believe so many would put themselves through the hassle of being gay if it was "all in their mind" and they could simply "stop it".
 
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N328KF
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:58 pm

According to Bill Cosby, he is Jesus Christ.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:56 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 47):
jesus Christ himself never said he was God.

In Mark 14, it's recorded "the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 - And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." Basically, as Christ, the Messiah, He was equal w/God. In Matthew 19, He asked why people were calling Him good . . . the way He posed the question was for people to know why they called Him good, because, as He stated, only God is good.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 86):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
His Name is taken in vain all the time, 3 religions/faiths recognize Him in one way or another,

Wait, which three? Christianity, Islam (which acknowledges him as a prior prophet), and...? Bahai'i?



Quoting David L (Reply 96):
Um, doesn't Judaism recognise Jesus "in one way or another"?

 checkmark 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 55):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 27):

You'll have to give more than just an opinion . . .

What?! You believe based entirely on faith and you expect more than opinions from me! Crazy.

It's not based on faith, but the Object of it. Btw, you never responded concerning these preachers, as to why you should respect them . . .

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 27):
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 25):
Charles Spurgeon was simply a preacher, why should I respect him?

How about the Stockwell Orphange he founded . . . and what about his fellow Christian, George Muller, who cared for thousands of orphans?

Sounds like these guys were a couple of winners based on that alone.
Living the American Dream
 
Superfly
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:27 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 91):
Super, imagine if everyone had that same attitude about everything that "bothered them".

There would be no more door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers and fewer people passing out flyers.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 91):
Also, do you expect saying the above makes you appear cool?

Not saying this to be "cool".
Bring back the Concorde
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:17 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
I think even if I offered you proof, you'd still dislike prayer and anything that has to do with believing in God. For starters you really dislike how the Bible states God feels about homosexuality and so is your attitude against anything christian.

Oh no. Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality. Never even mentioned it. At least not that I know of. That's all in Leviticus.

I've read the OT three times, BTW. Cover to cover. And the NT twice. The Book of Mormon once and the Q'uran once. At some point, when I get up the intestinal fortitude, I am going to read Scientology and Dianetics. And I read Mein Kampf. If I'm going to disagree with something, I am going to have a very close look at it and decide whether I truly disagree and why I disagree.

A lot of the NT is quite agreeable. Love, peace, humility, non-judgementalism. But I believe that Jesus Christ himself would oppose school prayer because he believed that faith in God comes from within and not from without. Christians, in his view, were to evangelize the world, NOT Christianize it.

Have you read your NT? Carefully? How much of it do you live?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 108):
Quoting David L (Reply 96):
Um, doesn't Judaism recognise Jesus "in one way or another"?

Not that I know of. My Rabbi told me that, at best, Judaism recognizes that Jesus Christ may have existed as a historical figure, nothing more. I don't think that's really "recognizing" since Judaism also recognizes that, say, George Washington was a historical figure.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 103):
By the way Doc, when one repeats and keeps believing in one's head "I'm really this way" it becomes your reality, and (in your mind) you accept that as true. Just like many who say "i can't do that", and have low self esteem, but in actuality they really can. It's all in your mind. Ultiimately the devil yes, Satan, is responsible for many of these negative thoughts to confuse people.

No, Miami. I repeated to myself over and over again, "I am not gay. I am NOT gay. I am NOT gay. I can overcome this." I had girlfriends. I tried so hard. I tried prayer, even.

Maybe, just maybe, this is how I was made. Maybe God, if he exists, knows more than you do.

But you aren't willing to accept that, are you? You already know how it is. YOU will tell GOD how it is supposed to be.

In fact, the New Testament does speak about people like you, those who violate the teachings of Jesus in his very name. Remember that Jesus said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. And remember that Jesus repeated over and over again his message of love, non-judgementalism, and humility. My reading of that book is that he would be appalled by what you say, and that, in fact, he would say that your soul has been taken by Satan (I could quote the verse but my copy of the NT with my various notes and bookmarks is about 7,000 NM away right now). At the very least, he would say that you have committed a grave sin of pride and that you have judged your fellow man. After all, you claimed to know better than I do what is in my own head.

So the next question, MIAMI707, is why would I, a reasonable, educated adult, a man who wants nothing more in life than to settle down and raise children (I'm a pediatrician, I love every child I ever meet with all my heart and soul), CHOOSE to be gay?

Can you answer that for me? Or is it just that Satan got into my head?

I will tell you one thing. On the day that I die, if I do have to face the lord, I will look at him and say "Throughout my life, I tried as hard as possible to do as little harm to others as I could."

Could you say the same? After you called a man who you do not even know a liar?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
miamix707
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:33 am



Quoting David L (Reply 104):
You claimed that religion makes better people. I dispute that.

Where did I say "religion makes better people""? Following what Jesus teaches does. He doesn't say being religious saves either. Jesus was at odds with some of the religious personalities of his day, especially fundamentalist "holier than thou" types which he referred to as hypocrites. They appeared to do good works, obey the law, and be very religious yet their heart wasn't right. That's why good works alone can't save you.

Quoting GDB (Reply 105):
Despite the stuff America's own Christian Fundamentalists spout (between giving money to some TV fraud with a bad wig), those of us not tied to a faith, our choice, experience the full spectrum of human emotions too.
You are no better than us.

The Bible says to look at Jesus as the example, it does not say to give your money to shady TV personalities, does it?

Matthew 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the middle of wolves: be you therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves"

Sure, there are many who claims to speak the word of God but in Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus says:

“On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity.’”

And yes I'm not better than you, you're totally right. People might share with you their beliefs, that has nothing to do with being better than you.

Quoting GDB (Reply 105):

The lower murder rate in Canada that you are questioning might have to do with a US society which has been corrupted by a lifestyle focused on material things, like money. What you have seen is an American society that has rejected God, and has made "gods" out of status, cars, women, financial wealth, etc. Basically a society that teaches money and material riches is the way to happiness and success. All fueled by the entertainment industry and the media. They've worked hard to make Jesus obsolete and take a back seat. That's why America is sinking. Punishment from God? Possibly.

But if you believe that Canada is more peaceful than the US because a less percentage believe in God and that's your excuse for rejecting Jesus, then that's your belief and I'm not going to try to change your view.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 109):

There would be no more door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers and fewer people passing out flyers.

lol
 
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johnboy
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:28 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):
I will tell you one thing. On the day that I die, if I do have to face the lord, I will look at him and say "Throughout my life, I tried as hard as possible to do as little harm to others as I could."

Could you say the same? After you called a man who you do not even know a liar?

oh SNAP!

QED

 bigthumbsup 
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:35 am

In todays world.....Its tough being good,not impossible but tough.....

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
HKA
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:01 am

I will give some information here as Muslim. We believe in Jesus. Infact there is whole chapter on Mary & Jesus (Mariam) in the Quran. However, there are some fundamantal differences.

According to Islam:

1. Jesus is a Prophet and his birth was miracle just like many other miracles performed by him and other Prophets. But he is not the son of God. God is all by himself.
2. Jesus was not crucified, infact God raised him to the heavens alive before he was to be crucified.
3. Jesus will return to earth close to the doomsday.(I believe Xtians believe this also, but he will not return as the last Prophet as the last Prophet is Muhammad (SAW).

Also, we believe in all Prophets mentioned in the Bible and Torah etc except that we have different names in Arabic or in the Quran:

Isa = Jesus
Musa = Moses
Haroon = Aaron
Yayah = John the Baptist
Ibrahim = Abraham
Ismail = Ishmael
Ishaaq = Isaac
Yaqoub = Jacob
Suleiman = Solomon
Daud = David
Adam = Adam
Loot = Lut

etc.

The above are just a few of the names of the Prophets
 
miamix707
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:14 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):

Maybe, just maybe, this is how I was made. Maybe God, if he exists, knows more than you do.

But you aren't willing to accept that, are you? You already know how it is. YOU will tell GOD how it is supposed to be.

I don't know anything, brother I'm just telling you what's in the Bible. If you're trying to say,that I'm a know it all because I told you that everyone (yes, even you) lie, that's fine with me. See Doc, in the Bible it does not say anywhere that homosexuality is natural, on the contrary, there are various passages where God rejects homosexuality as sexual perversion and as a punishable sin. My friend, could it be it is YOU who are telling him you want to be something else ,instead of whom he created you to be?

This link includes bible verses concerning homosexuality with a commentary: http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1302# I invite you to read it

Quoting HKA (Reply 114):
According to Islam:

Interesting to see the similarities and the names of the prophets, thanks for posting that HKA
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:23 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 115):
I don't know anything, brother I'm just telling you what's in the Bible.

Quote it. Where does it say that homosexuality is a choice? Verse, please.

Again, why would a man who wants nothing more than to settle down and raise a family choose to be gay? You avoided that question.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
miamix707
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:32 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):
Oh no. Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality. Never even mentioned it. At least not that I know of. That's all in Leviticus.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 116):
Quote it. Where does it say that homosexuality is a choice? Verse, please.

c'mon please don't be lazy  Wink read the link, there are a good # of verses on the subject

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 116):
Again, why would a man who wants nothing more than to settle down and raise a family choose to be gay? You avoided that question.

Sorry I hadn't even read your whole post, just glanced over real quick sorry my apologies, I was about to go to bed and I'm falling asleep.

Anyways, why? Because, according to the scriptures it does not matter how good you think you are, or how perfect you think you live your life, or how much good you do. What really matters to God is that you ask him (as a sinner that we all are), to be forgiven, but that can't happen, if you don't even want to admit homosexuality it's a sin..

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):
So the next question, MIAMI707, is why would I, a reasonable, educated adult, a man who wants nothing more in life than to settle down and raise children (I'm a pediatrician, I love every child I ever meet with all my heart and soul), CHOOSE to be gay?

Can you answer that for me? Or is it just that Satan got into my head?

Only God knows what's in your heart, however I have no doubts that you're a great human being. But God has a whole different set of standards, and to him the most important thing is that we come to him realizing we need his forgiveness for our sins, otherwise we will not be with him one day after our time here is up.

And again, homosexuality is a sin and God condemns it, along with other sins. So, essentially you're telling God you don't have to change because you are that way and there's nothing you can do. And so, you will continue doing what you do.

Even if you chose to, It won't be an easy change, and most likely will not happen from one day to the next. It would be a gradual change and it would take support and a lot of prayer. But again, the first step is recognizing the sin and seeking repentance.

Going to bed now, at this time! you have a good Sunday Doc
 
David L
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:45 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 111):
Where did I say "religion makes better people""?

For example...

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 95):
a connection to God, makes you not only feel good and eliminate ill feelings which most of us experience everyday.

I repeat that I've seen no discernible evidence that "a connection to God" makes people any more likely to be good people or happy people or any less likely to be stressed out, unhappy, obnoxious, scared, greedy, charitable, etc.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:03 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):
And remember that Jesus repeated over and over again his message of love, non-judgementalism, and humility.

Why are we not to judge? Of course we need to use good judgement, for without it we are blind. However we are not to pronounce judgement on others and the reason is this. Only the Creator is omniscient, and only He knows enough to pass a just judgement on anyone. We are poorly lacking in facts and overflowing with opinions.

Our judgements cannot be any more just than if we merely tossed darts at a board.....which is now not making me feel that comfortable with capital punishment. More thought needs to be applied on my part. We pride ourselves on having "all the facts" before passing judgement, and nothing could be further from the truth.
 
sbworcs
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:20 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 29):
What are your thoughts on Scriptures that say otherwise?

Who is to say that the Scriptures are anything other than an old Novel? AND why do so many relgions only use the bits of the scriptures that suits there own beliefs and conveniently ignores others?

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 91):
There are no school prayers over the PA anymore, instead we now have school shootings. I take it you prefer the "social progress" that has come after banning prayer?

Are you really trying to tell me that prayers in school kept shootings down? Please - nothing to do with it.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 117):
if you don't even want to admit homosexuality it's a sin..

In your mind yes! But just because you believe its a sin does not make it so! AND just because you believe it how the hell does that give you the right to condemn others for living their lives in a way that has no effect on yours whatsoever?

I talk to people out their beliefs and they appear to have other things to coincern them more than who I choose to sleep with - they appear the holding true to one of the 10 Commandment s- Love thy Neighbour as thyself? Something lacking here I think MIAMI?

And doesn't the Bible state somehwere that God created man in his own Image - Lots of different Gods around then.!!

I belive that Jesus was a historical character but that is where he remained. The main problem with faith is that you can NEVER prove it as it is a very personal thing. I don't believe, others do - OK life goes on but please do not try and pretend that Believers are better people than non believers becasue that is utter rubbish. ALL people are equal.

And as DocLightning says - IF we get to meet God at the gates of heaven then I could argue along with him that surely Living a life where you have not hurt people and always did your best to help people is better than someone who murders 500 children but then accest Jesus Christ as saviour etc. on his death bed and is granted immediate access??
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 120):
AND why do so many relgions only use the bits of the scriptures that suits there own beliefs and conveniently ignores others?

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Excellent insight . . . Scripture can be twisted to suit anyone's perspective . . . when left as it is, it can often make for uncomfortable reading.
Living the American Dream
 
miamix707
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 121):
Excellent insight . . . Scripture can be twisted to suit anyone's perspective . . . when left as it is, it can often make for uncomfortable reading.

The scripture couldn't be any more clear in the subject of homosexuality

Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 120):
AND just because you believe it how the hell does that give you the right to condemn others for living their lives in a way that has no effect on yours whatsoever?

Well if you think the Bible is an old Novel then why get so worked up over what it says?
Why is it that the typical argument is "who are you to judge me" and "you must hate homosexuals!" The same old fabricated excuses, just to deviate from the real subject into a personal judgmental debate. Why not try for a more mature, less defensive argument?

Isn't it obvious how the anti-christian crowd has turned the subject of who Jesus is into a personal "im a better person than you" debate? They say those who believe cannot judge, but you're the only ones trying to get personal here and doing a lot of judging... nice.
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 122):
The scripture couldn't be any more clear in the subject of homosexuality

My guess is that this was instituted by the religious types to try to differentiate themselves (and their people) as much as possible from what they saw as a great corrupting force...that is, the Greeks, followed by the Romans. That the Greco-Roman ethic permitted homosexuality was probably something the authors of the various religious tomes thought would something that they could use to incite their followers to some extent.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:02 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 123):
My guess is that this was instituted by the religious types to try to differentiate themselves (and their people) as much as possible from what they saw as a great corrupting force...that is, the Greeks, followed by the Romans. That the Greco-Roman ethic permitted homosexuality was probably something the authors of the various religious tomes thought would something that they could use to incite their followers to some extent.

It was recognized in the O.T. as well as reaffirmed several times in the N.T., altogether under the same principal - so it was nothing new to differentiate themselves from the current culture of the day.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 117):
Only God knows what's in your heart, however I have no doubts that you're a great human being. But God has a whole different set of standards, and to him the most important thing is that we come to him realizing we need his forgiveness for our sins, otherwise we will not be with him one day after our time here is up.

You didn't answer my question. Because you can't. You just are so stuck to your beliefs that you are willing to say hurtful things to others to defend your pride.

If you do have to face your maker, I hope you remember this conversation well, because He sure will.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 117):
What really matters to God is that you ask him (as a sinner that we all are), to be forgiven, but that can't happen, if you don't even want to admit homosexuality it's a sin..

I believe in only one law and one sin. The law is to do no harm to others. The sin is to violate that law.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 119):
Why are we not to judge?

Because God says repeatedly not to?

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 117):
c'mon please don't be lazy   read the link, there are a good # of verses on the subject

All of which affirm that homosexuality is a sin. None of which affirm it as a choice. Now, recall that I consider all of Scripture to be so much toilet paper (except less useful...too scratchy). So I could care less what it says.

But you do. And so you should then choose to do what IT says, not what you want it to say.

"I mistrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice how it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B. Anthony
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 97):
Are you calling me a liar? Answer the question directly.

Am I liar?

Directly...Yes

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 110):
I will tell you one thing. On the day that I die, if I do have to face the lord, I will look at him and say "Throughout my life, I tried as hard as possible to do as little harm to others as I could."



Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 120):
And as DocLightning says - IF we get to meet God at the gates of heaven then I could argue along with him that surely Living a life where you have not hurt people and always did your best to help people is better than someone who murders 500 children but then accest Jesus Christ as saviour etc. on his death bed and is granted immediate access??

Yes He will. Scripture is very clear on the entrance to Heaven. Your good works are nothin but filthy rags. To those who come before Him and offer or "reason" their "good deeds" He will say, "Depart from me for I never knew you." I have nothing good to offer but Christ IN me. It is because of Him I have access and not because I am a "good" person.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 125):
Because God says repeatedly not to?

Actually, He gives guidlines even on it...you know the whole thing with the log and speck? Take the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of your brothers. Well, make sure you are not struggling with the same sin.
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avek00
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:01 am

Jesus Christ will be irrelevant if Obama wins. His life will be the Third Testament of the Bible.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:21 am



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 127):
Jesus Christ will be irrelevant if Obama wins. His life will be the Third Testament of the Bible.

If he ever meets Steve Jobs, I foresee a pissing contest over who can walk on water the longest.
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WunalaYann
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:02 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 117):
What really matters to God is that you ask him (as a sinner that we all are), to be forgiven, but that can't happen, if you don't even want to admit homosexuality it's a sin..

I am heterosexual. I was raised and educated in a Catholic environment (all the way up to almost Confirmation) but I consider myself an agnostic.

But I can tell you one thing - to keep preaching that homosexuality is a "sin" is the best way to ensure that Catholic churches (and those of all the religions that still cling to that stance) will continue to see their parishes diminish, on their way to extinction.

Until the Catholic church (of which I am officially a member, even though reality would indicate otherwise) decides to face the reality of its children, accept it and offer a message to help us deal with it (in its complexities, challenges, joys, and difficulties, for every subject and item we can think of), it will simply continue to sink into obsolescence. One look at churches in France will tell you all you need to know about the state of the Catholic church in Western Europe - a slow and painful decline, catering only for the elders and the precious few who can be bothered.

No, homosexuality is not a "sin" (again the term deserves an accurate, realistic definition) anymore than jogging or gardening or, gasp, heterosexuality. It never was. It simply is the way some of our fellow human beings are. It has always been, and probably always will be. If anything, such diversity should be valued because it is part of who we are, as humans.

 Smile
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:21 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 125):
You just are so stuck to your beliefs that you are willing to say hurtful things to others to defend your pride.

And since you're bent on making this a judgemental debate, taking stabs at others who don't think like you, I'll keep telling you that your excuse is childish and is getting old.

I'd rather tell you what I'm convinced is truth. If that causes you to dislike me or not accept me for that, then so be it..

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 125):
You just are so stuck to your beliefs

Not simply my beliefs, I'm just telling you what the Bible says, so your beef must be with the word of God, you're not insulting me at all. Your solution should be simple. since you won't accept that what you're doing is a sin, do yourself a favor and don't get angry with those who believe it. After all, they believe in what you call a piece of toilet paper...

Why do you get so worked up about it? If I was you I'd be laughing that humanity's moral guidelines are written on a piece of toilet paper!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 125):
If you do have to face your maker, I hope you remember this conversation well, because He sure will.

Hopefully, for your own good Jesus is really a fairytale or a novel like some here have said. Because someone who won't even admit he's living in sin and keeps thumbing his nose at God not asking for forgiveness is headed for an eternity... I'd leave you to think where

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 126):

Yes He will. Scripture is very clear on the entrance to Heaven. Your good works are nothin but filthy rags

Exactly. Our logic is not God's logic and our limited mind will never understand God no matter how much we try. No matter how perfect one lives his/her life, without repenting and accepting Jesus as savior that person isn't going to heaven.

Have the wisdom and humility to adjust things with your maker while you can, once you die... that's it
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:50 am



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
since you won't accept that what you're doing is a sin, do yourself a favor and don't get angry with those who believe it

I think you are putting the finger on the key issue here.

You say "don't get angry with those who believe" that Doc is living in "sin". Why should he accept your belief? You believe "what he does" (being homosexual is not an activity, a career or a lifestyle, by the way) is sinful, he does not. He does not have to accept being labelled as a sinner, or in breach of any form of "moral" principles.

That's called discrimination and moral harassment.  Smile

As long as someone behaves within the bounds of the law (which is the translation of morality in modern societies), there should be zero labelling from members of said societies.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
Our logic is not God's logic and our limited mind will never understand God no matter how much we try

Then why "ask for forgiveness" if we do not even understand what God's understanding of "sin" is? And why worry about it all if He is all-loving and all-forgiving?

I by no means use this reasoning to promote illegal and/or immoral behaviours, but I am just trying to figure out why I should say sorry to someone I have never met, who have not bothered introducing themselves to me, and whom I never deliberately hurt.

 Smile

As I said, I am agnostic so I do hope that there is something after earthly life but I struggle with the notion that whatever it is would consider homosexuality, female priests and condoms as sinful and/or heresy. Better yet, I simply do not believe it at all.
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:11 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 126):
Directly...Yes

All right, then I'll ask you the same question I asked MIAMI: WHY would I make such an absurd choice?

Remember, I wish I were straight. I want kids. I just want to live a normal life free from the deep hatred that the likes of you hold in your heart for me and those like me. (And don't insult all of us by claiming that you love me. That's a lie and you know it. People who love don't say the things you've said.)

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
Exactly. Our logic is not God's logic and our limited mind will never understand God no matter how much we try. No matter how perfect one lives his/her life, without repenting and accepting Jesus as savior that person isn't going to heaven.

Poor Australian Aboriginals. Poor Hindus. Poor Jews. Poor Muslims. Poor Quakers.

This, folks, is why I believe that discrimination on the basis of religion should be permitted. Religion, unlike homosexuality, is clearly and unambiguously a choice. And behavior and beliefs like this should not be protected states.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:27 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 131):
which is the translation of morality in modern societies

Unfortunately, it seems to me that alot of religious people take issue with "modern society". Nowadays, there's more to morality than just the bible. Even for those that believe it to be true, it deals with a society which existed over two milliennia ago. (And I can understand some of the things in there. If you let everyone be gay, the village will cease to exist. Understandable.)

Nowadays, society is alot different. There's no such thing as religious unity in today's world. People from all faiths and no faith are supposed to live together. And guess what, in the modern world, secularism has triumphed. Why? Because a secular system is less likely to alienate most of everyone else. Bible out, common sense in.

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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 129):
But I can tell you one thing - to keep preaching that homosexuality is a "sin" is the best way to ensure that Catholic churches (and those of all the religions that still cling to that stance) will continue to see their parishes diminish, on their way to extinction.



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 129):
If anything, such diversity should be valued because it is part of who we are, as humans.

Scripture teaches otherwise. Scripture says NOT to conform to this world because we are not OF this world. Our inheritance and our citizenship is in Heaven, not here on the whicked Earth. There should be no compromise for any kind of sin. All sin should not be tollerated or compromised wether it is homosexuality, drunkeness, adultry, lust, and even stealing. Now the degrees of this sin, there is no such thing. Sin is sin in God's eyes and the only thing to wash it is the blood. No compromise. One antidote. I am sorry but the day that my church (non-Catholic) compromises and allows homosexuality or drunkeness to be apart of our lives because its "culture" that is the day I will no longer attend that Church. Scripture is clear.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 131):
Then why "ask for forgiveness" if we do not even understand what God's understanding of "sin" is? And why worry about it all if He is all-loving and all-forgiving?

But this IS understood in Scripture. Its all over the Bible. Are you sure you have read it?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 132):
All right, then I'll ask you the same question I asked MIAMI: WHY would I make such an absurd choice?

I would be happy to discuss this issue in a message and not in this thread.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:39 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 134):

But this IS understood in Scripture. Its all over the Bible. Are you sure you have read it?

But the scriptures you hold so dear were written by people not by your imagined superior being and the reason they wrote them was to wield power over there fellow man and force their bigotted views on to everyone else.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:55 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
Not simply my beliefs, I'm just telling you what the Bible says, so your beef must be with the word of God, you're not insulting me at all.

You are telling him your interpretation of the Bible. It's your opinion....and unless I am mistaken I think he is okay with your opinion. It's the literal condemning to hell that I believe Doc has a problem with....that requires a judgement about him with only one fact (that he is a homosexual). Chances are 99 out of 100 times you will be in error with a judgement based on one fact alone.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
Your solution should be simple. since you won't accept that what you're doing is a sin, do yourself a favor and don't get angry with those who believe it.

No one is above sin, we do it all the time (it is our nature). The beams in our eyes should not magnify the twigs in other's....they should block sight of them (correct?)
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:12 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 122):
Well if you think the Bible is an old Novel then why get so worked up over what it says?
Why is it that the typical argument is "who are you to judge me" and "you must hate homosexuals!" The same old fabricated excuses, just to deviate from the real subject into a personal judgmental debate. Why not try for a more mature, less defensive argument?

I don't get worked up over what the Bible says - I just happen to belive that it was written by Scholars as a way of helping state to control the masses. Even some religions don't believe all thats in the Bible - some are still waiting for Jesus to come the first time. I get worked up when people that have never met me feel that they can condemn me for my lifestyle on the basis of THEIR beliefs. And it does come over quite loudly that you do despise homosexuality and homosexuals. The OP question was "Who is Jesus" - i gave my opinion earlier on.

The thread then moved on to cover other issues such as "What is Sin" etc.. You are quite entitled to you beliefs if you so wish but please do not use those beliefs to condemn me when you do not know me.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
Hopefully, for your own good Jesus is really a fairytale or a novel like some here have said. Because someone who won't even admit he's living in sin and keeps thumbing his nose at God not asking for forgiveness is headed for an eternity... I'd leave you to think where

But again - that is by your beliefs and your standards - don't try and condemn me to hell for something you cannot begin to understand - people do not choose this lifestyle. Why would people objectively choose a way of life that was gonig to cause them to be the target of hatred, harrassment, violence and in some cases death (including state sanctioned murder)

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 130):
If I was you I'd be laughing that humanity's moral guidelines are written on a piece of toilet paper!

But then not ALL of humanity has their moral guidelines set by the same scriptures. AND even those that do use the same Scriptures can interpret them in completely different ways depending on their own beliefs and ideas.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 134):
I am sorry but the day that my church (non-Catholic) compromises and allows homosexuality or drunkeness

See my comment above - Scripture is clear on this issue to those that are the leaders of your particular Church or Denomination. Other branches of Christianity have coompletely opposite interpretations. Case in Point - My Father is a Minister in the United Reformed Church in the UK and they have ordained openly Gay ministers and see no problem with Homosexuality - How can this church accept whilst others reject when they both use the same Bible as their Scripture. And does them accepting Gay ministers etc make them any less Christian than you? Also the United Reformed Church in the UK uses the Bible as a tool to help guide them NOT as tool to bash others for their lifestyles. As far as I can tell it also believes that a lot of the stories (especially in the Old Testament) are their to show the percieved power of God rather than a belief that the events actuall happened.

All religions think they are the one that is correct - Surely some of them are going to be wrong because they can't all be right?
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:37 pm

So some are born gay (yes they are, you Flat Earthers), how in any way does it bother those on this thread, who are so vexed by this?
Have they met those they are effectively condemn on here?

I was born hetro, but that some are not, has no effect on my life.
So again, why are those on here so bitterly and ignorantly condemn others they don't know?
Because surely, if you are happy in yourself, secure in your identity, including sexual orientation, then why be so concerned about others of no harm to you? Why the wish to condemn?
Those who are secure in these respects, don't do this.
(They don't feel the need to perhaps?)
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:55 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 138):
I was born hetro, but that some are not, has no effect on my life.

Has no visible impact in my daily life, either, but if the question arises, I don't mind sharing what the Bible says on the subject. If you don't like His attitude on it, it's between you two.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 139):
Has no visible impact in my daily life, either, but if the question arises, I don't mind sharing what the Bible says on the subject. If you don't like His attitude on it, it's between you two.

I've just pressed the 'Quote Selected Text' button as you can see, which is what a bunch of seemingly very insecure people do, in their desire to invalidate the identities, the very lives, of others.

Presumably those so keen to do this, also stone their wives and plenty else besides.
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:32 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 140):
a bunch of seemingly very insecure people do, in their desire to invalidate the identities, the very lives, of others.

"Seemingly" . . . sounds like you're not sure. One thing is sure, though, which is if people feel like they're victims because Scripture hurt their feelings, it won't change what the Scriptures say.
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Blackprojects
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:52 pm

if Jesus has been Reborn he is Probably a Taxi Driver in NewYork!
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:32 pm



Quoting Doona (Reply 133):
If you let everyone be gay

Hey, no chance of that, mate. I love women way too much to even consider jumping the fence for a pash.  biggrin 

By the way, and more seriously, there is no chance of that happening. Statistically, the proportion of homosexuals in any human group is roughly 10-to-15%.  Smile

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 134):
Scripture teaches otherwise. Scripture says NOT to conform to this world because we are not OF this world. Our inheritance and our citizenship is in Heaven, not here on the whicked Earth. There should be no compromise for any kind of sin. All sin should not be tollerated or compromised wether it is homosexuality, drunkeness, adultry, lust, and even stealing. Now the degrees of this sin, there is no such thing. Sin is sin in God's eyes and the only thing to wash it is the blood. No compromise. One antidote. I am sorry but the day that my church (non-Catholic) compromises and allows homosexuality or drunkeness to be apart of our lives because its "culture" that is the day I will no longer attend that Church. Scripture is clear.

I disagree staunchly and forever with everything you said, but the beauty of living in free societies is that both of us are absolutely entitled to our opinions.  Smile

But the reality is that the law of the society you live in will always be the one according to which you will be judged. I immediately start worrying whenever some religion groups/communities claim the right not to abide by the law in order to comply with their religious beliefs. In my words, it is called anarchy.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 134):
But this IS understood in Scripture. Its all over the Bible. Are you sure you have read it?

I confess (forgive the pun) to not have read much of it. But I have been to Mass much too often for my liking and also went to Catholic schools for a few years. And this is the message that was passed on to me, loud and clear.

And that does not change anything to the fact that I cannot make sense of asking for forgiveness to someone I have never met.  Smile

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 136):
It's the literal condemning to hell that I believe Doc has a problem with.

 checkmark  And I do too. I have a serious problem with the whole concept of homosexuality being a sin. Or that wearing condoms, refusing to fast, not going to Mass, etc. are sins as well.

Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 137):
My Father is a Minister in the United Reformed Church in the UK and they have ordained openly Gay ministers and see no problem with Homosexuality

I would actually consider joining such a church.

Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 137):
All religions think they are the one that is correct - Surely some of them are going to be wrong because they can't all be right?

I think most Western religions have implicitly accepted the fact that there is a variety of religions and beliefs out there, and that they simply form part of a multitude of interpretations of the same core messages - peace, tolerance, love of your neighbour, etc.

 Smile
 
socalfive
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:40 pm

Jesus Christ was a sheep herder if he existed at all. Another "messiah" borne of a plaguerized fable by a criminal organization hell bent on world domination; The Catholics. The prime example of social control and untaxed mega-wealth and the catalyst of practically every war for tha past 2000 years. Go google Zeitgeist the movie and learn something useful.
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:48 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 134):
I would be happy to discuss this issue in a message and not in this thread.

No no. I'd like it in public, please. In private it can get way too nasty.

You said it was a choice. I asked you why you thought I'd make it.

I'm not going to get into my long post about all the internal inconsistencies in the Bible or the logical fallacy of calling it "inerrant" when multiple versions exist.

But I do want to know why you would think a reasonable, intelligent, educated man who wants children would choose to be gay.
-Doc Lightning-

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QXatFAT
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 137):
See my comment above - Scripture is clear on this issue to those that are the leaders of your particular Church or Denomination. Other branches of Christianity have coompletely opposite interpretations. Case in Point - My Father is a Minister in the United Reformed Church in the UK and they have ordained openly Gay ministers and see no problem with Homosexuality - How can this church accept whilst others reject when they both use the same Bible as their Scripture. And does them accepting Gay ministers etc make them any less Christian than you? Also the United Reformed Church in the UK uses the Bible as a tool to help guide them NOT as tool to bash others for their lifestyles. As far as I can tell it also believes that a lot of the stories (especially in the Old Testament) are their to show the percieved power of God rather than a belief that the events actuall happened.

I say with 100% confidence that this church you speak of does NOT take the Bible for what it is...TRUTH. God will not smite me for that. It is clear in Scripture what the qualifications are for leaders in a church. A pastor has the same qualifications as an elder. Read 1 Timothy. I am sorry but the Reformed Church you speak of does not believe in the Bible. It merley takes it as a book that has NO truth in it what so ever. If it believed it was truth, it would not be doing the things it is doing.

The proper Hermeneutic to reading scripture and understanding it is "let scripture interpret scripture". There are not multiple meanings in Scripture.
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:40 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 146):
I say with 100% confidence that this church you speak of does NOT take the Bible for what it is...TRUTH.

QX, perhaps you should join these people:

www.godhatesfags.org

Your ideologies are scarily similar. Like really frightening, in fact. Does this not frighten you that you agree 100% on the issues with this group of people who so clearly harbor deep hate in their heart? Their arguments are exactly the same as yours!

My god, man, is THAT what you want to be?
-Doc Lightning-

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WunalaYann
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:25 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 146):
I say with 100% confidence that this church you speak of does NOT take the Bible for what it is...TRUTH.

And I say with 100% confidence that you are right, this church does not consider the Bible or any other publication to be the "truth" (whatever that is). And much more importantly in my opinion - THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!!

 Smile
 
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RE: Who Is Jesus Christ?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:51 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 136):
You are telling him your interpretation of the Bible. It's your opinion....

I guess you want me to sugar coat it? Aren't all of us automatically condemned by our sins and the only thing that can change that is Jesus? If your interpretation of the Bible is any different concerning salvation then I don't know know what you believe in, because that means you're not a christian.

By the way, he was also bothered by the idea that, like everyone else, he lies too. Apparently he won't be happy no matter what I or QX say. I'm here to share what I believe, it's beyond my control if he, and maybe even you? dislike my beliefs as they are.


I'm 100% sure not a single one of the gays in this thread really think I hate homosexuals, if they did, that would mean they're the ones who hate ME (for what I believe). Behind all this drama and "you hurt my feelings" oscar-winning acting, I'm sure they're grown up enough to simply accept we might never agree. Although I totally understand they may not like me too much after I told them homosexuality is a sin condemned by God If I remember right it's actually mentioned more times than the others.

Feel free to dislike me all you want, I'm not going to be "politically correct" about my convictions

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