I Don't Understand Undecided Voters

dtwclipper · Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:26 pm

I don't get it. How in the world can you not know in a general election who they are going to vote for.

I worked the polls during the August Michigan primary (there was an annexation issue that I was fighting), and people not only didn't know the issue, but seemed totaly unprepared to vote.

What's your take on this...do you understand this mentality or are we on A.Net just ueber aware of the issues?

desertjets · Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:43 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
What's your take on this...do you understand this mentality or are we on A.Net just ueber aware of the issues?

Good question and I've had this debate with numerous friends and colleagues off and on over the past few weeks. The cynical side of me says it is simple stupidity and ignorance. Unless you've been living under a rock or live in a state that is obviously going one way, you've been bombarded by ads, stump speeches, and news stories all articulating the two major candidates stances on the big issues. Frankly both McCain and Obama have done a decent job of differentiating why/how they are different on a given issue from each other.

The more rational side figures that the undecided voters are not all that dumb, but are really torn by the issues, or are voting based on what they perceive the character of each candidate to be. Though the lack of awareness of major issues is pretty scary.

TylerDurden · Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:53 pm

A lot of my friends are undecided. They are neither dumb nor ignorant of the media and the issues in the upcoming election.

For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

scrubbsywg · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:06 pm

canada just had a national election last week, and i was undecided up until the day of the election. it wasn't because i was dumb or ignorant, it was because no platform fully agreed with me(and we have 3 major parties here) and i wanted to take the time to decide.

There are many voters that don't have a fully republican or democrat leaning and likely are split on the candidates platforms. In that case, they should probably take all the time they want to decide who to vote for.

There is absolutely no rule that says you cant be undecided up until you walk into the booth.

OA260 · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:12 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils.

Quite true in some cases. I have had the same dilemma on a few occasions. Sometimes I have gone into the voting booth and decided at the box. Mostly that has been local elections though and not national ones. If I had a vote in the US election I know 100% who I would vote for as I believe there is a real need for a change of direction for the USA. For me there is a clear choice.

ACDC8 · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:16 pm

Whats not to understand? Party A has somethings I agree or disagree with, Party B has somethings I agree or disagree with. And some of us in other countries also have Parties C,D,E,F and so on.

Every vote counts and I don't plan on throwing mine out so I take my time on deciding.

Mir · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:35 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
A lot of my friends are undecided. They are neither dumb nor ignorant of the media and the issues in the upcoming election.

For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils.

That's not the same as:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
people not only didn't know the issue, but seemed totaly unprepared to vote.

That people don't know the issues would be cause for concern. But those who know about the issues but just can't make up their minds for whatever reasons are just regular participants in the democratic process. While we may not understand their indecision, there is nothing specifically wrong with them - they may be looking at the issues a different way, or even looking at issues that the rest of us don't think about.

-Mir

dc-9-10 · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:43 pm

To add a little humor to it, I add a Daily Show clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tmxa4ZEErw

It is bad quality, but funny.

Aaron747 · Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:56 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):

For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

Then, like me, they should for an individual other than these two. It's a rather easy decision to make.

FruteBrute · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:02 pm

I would say those truly undecided are probably morons. But many people SAY they are undecided just so they don't have to have a fight with their friends, or are being polite.

srbmod · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:03 pm

This is why they need to make "None Of The Above" a legitimate option in all elections. There's been times where I've liked neither candidate in a race and instead wrote myself in. It would also force voters to choose an option as opposed to skipping the race (provided this is being done with a touchscreen voting machine).

As for the upcoming Presidential Election, my mind was made up several months ago.

ShyFlyer · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:14 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
.do you understand this mentality

Yes, because I am an undecided voter.

I'm aware of the issues. I know where the candidates say they stand on the issues. I just haven't decided yet who is less full of bulls**t.

vikkyvik · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:19 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
What's your take on this...do you understand this mentality or are we on A.Net just ueber aware of the issues?

I understand it completely. I hate politics, and as an offshoot of that, I have relatively little respect for politicians - especially those who are running for the highest office in the land. As a result, I find that I don't care as much about the election as others may.

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):

That people don't know the issues would be cause for concern.

I'll fully admit that I don't know all the issues. I can't stand watching debates, and don't like reading about politics or elections. I think the Daily Show and the Colbert Report are hilarious, but I don't watch them very often, because they're all about politics.

At the end of the day, though, on Nov. 4th, I'll go cast my vote, having made my decision to the best of my ability.

Perhaps one day, the DNC and RNC will be (much) less like the Super Bowl, and I'll be able to stand politics.

TylerDurden · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:46 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
That's not the same as:

Never said it was. He wanted to know why folks were undecided. I gave my comment.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
Then, like me, they should for an individual other than these two

In the US...that's the same as not voting at all---third party candidates never stand a chance. I guess that's an option for them as well.

I'm leaning toward that myself.

MD11Engineer · Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:52 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

If there was a federal election tomorrow in Germany, I also wouldn't know whom to vote for. The major parties (I'm ruling out voting for some radical party of either the far left or far right) each have some good points,but also bad points on their agendas.

Jan

Fly2HMO · Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
What's your take on this...do you understand this mentality or are we on A.Net just ueber aware of the issues?

I was about to write a whole paragraph, but these two fellow a.nuts summed it up for me better than I could:

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 12):

I understand it completely. I hate politics, and as an offshoot of that, I have relatively little respect for politicians - especially those who are running for the highest office in the land. As a result, I find that I don't care as much about the election as others may.

Right now, I'm more busy concentrating in getting the hell out of college. And I have no interest whatsoever in politics. So far I've only bothered to look for a few minutes into the websites of Obama and McCain, which is obviously not good enough to make an informed decision. So I'll just let the rest of the country decide for me and have them feel guilty should either one of them turn out to be a joke.

In reelection though, it's much more easier to decide, and that's usually when I vote, so If I don't like the current president I just vote for whoever else is running.

I also do not like the voting system. I don't see what's so difficult with implementing popular majority, just like every other country out there does it.

Cadet57 · Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 5):
And some of us in other countries also have Parties C,D,E,F and so on.

I vote for the Monster Raving Loony party!

http://www.omrlp.com/

Wink

bok269 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:49 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
This is why they need to make "None Of The Above" a legitimate option in all elections. There's been times where I've liked neither candidate in a race and instead wrote myself in. It would also force voters to choose an option as opposed to skipping the race (provided this is being done with a touchscreen voting machine).

There's one problem I have with that strategy. When "None of the above" is voted by the majority, what happens?

Charles79 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:14 pm

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 17):
There's one problem I have with that strategy. When "None of the above" is voted by the majority, what happens?

Easy: the candidate that still got the most votes will win. The beauty of a scenario like this is, if it were to happen, that the parties would get a very clear message that they are so out of touch with the public it's not even funny.

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

That's pretty much me...I may join Aaron747 and vote for someone else and ignore both candidates altogether.

We need more (and better) alternatives!!!

johns624 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:08 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 13):
that's the same as not voting at all---third party candidates never stand a chance

I hate this sentiment. If everyone who wanted to vote for a 3rd party did, there would be 3 major parties and the R-D stranglehold would be broken. Ross Perot almost did it.

lincoln · Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:18 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
How in the world can you not know in a general election who they are going to vote for.

In my case...

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

I don't particularly like McCain, but the more Obama talks the more he scares the crap out of me. A few weeks ago I was truly in the middle between these two, but lately--while I'm still undecided--I've been edging closer to McCain.

I don't pigeonhole myself as a Republican or a Democrat -- in fact both parties have aspects I find desirable, and therefore, it's not as easy as looking for the (R) or (D) after someone's name when voting...

FriendlySkies · Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Most undecided voters lie in the middle of the political spectrum and are split on many issues...i.e. they might like Obama's health care plan, but prefer McCain's tax plan. It makes perfect sense that it might be difficult for them to decide between the two in this case, as you have to not only decide which issue(s) are more important, but which candidate is more likely to uphold their platform.

rfields5421 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:42 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
How in the world can you not know in a general election who they are going to vote for.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 11):
I just haven't decided yet who is less full of bulls**t.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21):
Most undecided voters lie in the middle of the political spectrum and are split on many issues...i.e. they might like Obama's health care plan, but prefer McCain's tax plan. It makes perfect sense that it might be difficult for them to decide between the two in this case,

Plus the great thing about being "Undecided" in a swing state is that people actually act like your opinions and vote are important.

When you get down to the details of the broad range of issues across the broad spectrum of governing a country as large as the US - plus the factors which greatly limit the power of a President to enact his policies - McCain and Obama are relatively close on the majority of issues.

Such as:

Immigration - both pretty much align with George Bush - who could not get his plan through Congress - neither will the new president.

Gay Marriage - both favor civil unions to resolve many of the legal issues, but reserve marriage for a man and a woman. Neither supports a constitutional amendment - but McCain would consider it if the courts overturn state laws.

etc......

The truth is both are career politicians with a vested interest in maintaining the current power structure and practices in Washington.

Such as Obama's taxes pledge loopholes.

He would increase 'taxes' on incomes between $102,000 and $250,000 - by extending the Social Security top end. Now I happen to think it's a good thing - but if you make between $102-250K - Obama's plan will take 7.65% more of your pay - even though it's not really a tax.

McCain's proposals have similar items which make the reality a bit different from the spoken promises.

McCain has a much better demonstrated record of not being hung up in his party positions - but being so much older than Obama helps build that record.

seb146 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:51 pm

I think people say they are undecided because they do not want their opinion broadcast. Something like "none of your damn business how I vote." I am sure some people do this with exit polls as well. There really are some people that are that ignorant and there really are some people that do not understand. There are 11 ballot measures on the Oregon ballot this election (we do mail in and already have our ballots). The way they are written on the ballot are confusing. I do not know how I will vote on those 11 measures until the Voters Guides arrive in the mail. I do, however, know which people I am voting for.

lowrider · Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:21 pm

I am undecided, and it is not because I can't decide between Obama and McCain. I dislike McCain less than I dislike Obama, but I am torn as to whether I should find a third party that better represents my ideals, or simply vote for the less objectionable of the mainstream candidates. I know voting for a third party is akin to voting for Obama, but I am so fed up with the Republicans I almost think they deserve to lose. I am loathe to vote for a party that takes my vote for granted and keeps moving further and further from what I think is right. The only thing holding me back from completely embracing that point of view is the thought of how much ground would be lost under Obama, particularly with a democratic congress, and how long, if ever, it would take to get it back.

PSA727 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:27 pm

Undecided noes not always mean uninformed. It means that given the information they
know about either candidtae, neither one has made a compelling argument to them. Not
every voter is partisan, there are independents. The real question should be why don't
people vote at all (especially the one who always bitch about things). They are the ones
I have more of a concern with.

sw733 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:44 pm

I am a Namibian AND a US citizen, so I will be voting in this election (don't let the flag fool you)

In my case, I am about as moderate as you can be. I just filled out my absentee ballot, and it was literally 50/50 Democrats and Republicans...Repub for Senate, Dem for House, Repub for State Senate, Dem for State House, etc. But until the final hour (I filled it out early since I will be traveling up to and including election day for work) I couldn't decide on the President. I agreed with one on some things, another on others. I was worried about ones experience vs. anothers possible lack of change from the current.

A very small part of the population is the loudest...extreme-left, and extreme-right. In the middle are the normal, sane folks who just want someone who they think is going to do the country best...and many of us are having an awfully tough choice deciding who that will be. I am still deciding, even after voting, if I made the right choice...and I probably will until we see what the next guy (or girl, Ms. McKinney? ok probably not) does.

dc10s2hnl · Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:05 pm

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 19):
If everyone who wanted to vote for a 3rd party did, there would be 3 major parties and the R-D stranglehold would be broken. Ross Perot almost did it.

The only way 3rd parties will stand a realistic chance is if the electoral college is reformed and no longer a winner-take-all system. Perot DIDN'T almost do it... he got an amazing 20% of the popular vote in '92, but not one electoral vote... which is what determines the presidency. Changing the electoral college to either a proportional system or by congressional district (like Maine and Nebraska currently do) will allow the 3rd parties to at least get a foothold, get more voices included in the debates, etc.

henkybaby · Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:52 pm

I think people who are decided actually are the more ignorant ones. They have their votes decided by their location or their upbringing. For them there is nothing to ponder. " am a Republican, so I vote McCain" even if he has a running mate that is an idiot...

Those who are undecided probably hope to be able to chose on merrit. Good luck with that... Wink

dtwclipper · Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:03 pm

Thanks for all the replies, and sorry I didn't get back sooner I was at a fundraiser for a friend of mine who is running for a position on our Township board and working today.

Many of you say "the lesser of the two evils" and searching for answers on issues.

For me, my vote is not for President, but for the ramifications of such, specifically the Supreme Court. That's why for me it is a black and white issue (no pun intended) and a very easy decision.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 25):
The real question should be why don't
people vote at all (especially the one who always bitch about things). They are the ones
I have more of a concern with.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 15):
Right now, I'm more busy concentrating in getting the hell out of college. And I have no interest whatsoever in politics. So far I've only bothered to look for a few minutes into the websites of Obama and McCain, which is obviously not good enough to make an informed decision. So I'll just let the rest of the country decide for me and have them feel guilty should either one of them turn out to be a joke.

Even when I was in Grad school I found time to vote. No matter how busy you claim to be, it is your duty to vote....IMHO.

B6JFKH81 · Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:23 pm

I am a registered non-party affiliate. I don't go one way or the other when it comes to which party I go with. There are instances where I will agree with a republican, other times a democrat. In fact, the last election that I voted in, I wound up voting for democrats on some things, republican on others and even a few 3rd party candidates on the remaining ones.

In the case of this upcoming election, I don't like either candidate. Therefore, I am undecided for the time being. I will do as I usually do, bring up the subjects that mean the most to me, weigh out the pros and cons of each candidate and their veiws on the subject and have to render a decision accordingly so when it is time to go to the voting booth I will know who I am voting for. But, that is still a few days away.

I hope that helps to clarify what some of our mentalities are...

~H81

767Lover · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:52 am

I actually don't mind it when people are undecided (if they are informed voters) because it means they are really thinking about the choices and not just voting for the D or R candidate because they are D or R.

Nothing irks me more than when people go down the party line with voting.

DocLightning · Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:34 am

Well, let's take Prop 11 here in CA.

I've read the arguments for and against it. And I don't get it. I just don't understand the issue enough and I can't understand the ramifications enough. And there's a point where I'm just not interested in it anymore because it doesn't seem like it's going to significantly impact my life.

I don't tell people how I voted, but on this one I will: I left it blank. I'm not going to take a stance on something I know nothing about.

dw747400 · Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
I don't tell people how I voted, but on this one I will: I left it blank. I'm not going to take a stance on something I know nothing about.

It is amazing how many people do vote when they have no idea what they are voting for. We routinely have school board elections in this area where you have a list of six or seven candidates and vote for three; the first three on the ballot always win. No matter how qualified you she his, Nancy Zimmerman isn't getting elected.

The same happens on any election, though at the presidential level most people tend to know a bit more about what is going on.

It really is a paradox of democracy: on one hand, all citizens deserve the right to vote; on the other, those who fail to educate themselves really aren't doing themselves or anyone else a service.

DLPMMM · Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:55 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
I don't get it. How in the world can you not know in a general election who they are going to vote for.

Because there is no one worth voting for.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 1):
Frankly both McCain and Obama have done a decent job of differentiating why/how they are different on a given issue from each other.

Neither of them has shown anything but the ability to pander and smear.

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 2):
For them, it's deciding between the lesser of two evils. It's hard to get excited and support any single candidate when your basically just choosing the individual less likely to screw things up!

I would rephrase that to " more likely to screw things up less". You know politicians will screw up everything they touch.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
Then, like me, they should for an individual other than these two. It's a rather easy decision to make.

Even the small party candidates are worthless this year. Bob Barr is pushing religion in a non-religious party, and Ralph Nader hasn't had a sane thought in his head for 20 years.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 9):
I would say those truly undecided are probably morons.

I would say that anyone who could in good conscience vote for any of these candidates is a moron.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
This is why they need to make "None Of The Above" a legitimate option in all elections.

They have that in elections in Brasil.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 11):
I'm aware of the issues. I know where the candidates say they stand on the issues. I just haven't decided yet who is less full of bulls**t.

Less full? It's coming out every orifice they have. Where is Pat Paulson when you need him?

casinterest · Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:15 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 29):
For me, my vote is not for President, but for the ramifications of such, specifically the Supreme Court. That's why for me it is a black and white issue (no pun intended) and a very easy decision.

But then your vote becomes a single issue vote. And is a partisan one.

I know people that vote for the Democratic/Republican Party Candidate soley based on Pro-Choice/Anti-Abortion Leanings,
Yet the Republican and Democratic parties, have a sort of Moral collision on the Death Penalty with the above.

Some vote based on Gun Rights
Some vote based on Taxes and social class
Some vote based on what their family has always voted on.
Some vote based on Candidate charisma
Some vote bases on Candidate looks.
.......

Until a person actually casts a vote, all are undecided. To make up your mind without fully weighing all issues to your own satisfaction is a a bad thing. To not cast a vote and make a choice is a disservice to the freedoms that have been granted to you to make a decision.

kevi747 · Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:55 am

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 28):
I think people who are decided actually are the more ignorant ones. They have their votes decided by their location or their upbringing. For them there is nothing to ponder. " am a Republican, so I vote McCain" even if he has a running mate that is an idiot...

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 30):
In the case of this upcoming election, I don't like either candidate. Therefore, I am undecided for the time being. I will do as I usually do, bring up the subjects that mean the most to me, weigh out the pros and cons of each candidate and their veiws on the subject and have to render a decision accordingly so when it is time to go to the voting booth I will know who I am voting for. But, that is still a few days away.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 31):
I actually don't mind it when people are undecided (if they are informed voters) because it means they are really thinking about the choices and not just voting for the D or R candidate because they are D or R.

Nothing irks me more than when people go down the party line with voting.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 11):
Yes, because I am an undecided voter.

I'm aware of the issues. I know where the candidates say they stand on the issues. I just haven't decided yet who is less full of bulls**t.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 25):
Undecided noes not always mean uninformed. It means that given the information they
know about either candidtae, neither one has made a compelling argument to them.

If this was 8 months ago I would understand these arguments. But the campaigns have been dragging on for months, the debates are over, and the election is less than 2 weeks away. And yet you still can't make up your minds?!? Are you kidding me?

These two candidates are completely different on so many key issues. They've chosen vastly different running mates. If you can't, by now, tell them apart and make a decision on who you think is more qualified to lead the country, then, I'm sorry, but what are you waiting for? Some sort of "voice of God" epiphany that will suddenly make it obvious whom you should choose? Grow a pair and make a decision already. Angry

Or, as Jason Jones said the other night on "The Daily Show", "The only thing we can hope is that on November 4th, these people won't be able to make the decision to leave the house." Wink

kc135topboom · Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:19 am

You vote for the candidate that agrees with you the most, it will never be 100% of the issues. You will be lucky if it is 40%-50% of the issues. It is up to the voter to take the time to become informed. You also vote for the candidate who lies to you the least amount of time.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
Well, let's take Prop 11 here in CA.

Propositions are not much different. It is up to you to get informed on the issue, these are important. Don't take all your information from TV ads, as it takes money to buy TV time, and one side may have significantly more money than the other side of the issue. If the issue doesn't have a direct impact on you, it will have an indirect impact, usually through a family member or close friend.

But, the bottom line here is always be true to your personal beliefs, and don't compromise, you don't have to. If you are liberal, then vote liberal, if you are conservative, then vote conservative.

DLPMMM · Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 36):
If this was 8 months ago I would understand these arguments. But the campaigns have been dragging on for months, the debates are over, and the election is less than 2 weeks away. And yet you still can't make up your minds?!? Are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me? How can you possibly be committed to voting for any of these pieces of crap?

Asking to choose between them is like asking me to choose either having my fingernails slowly pulled out with pliers one by one, or electrodes attached to my "you know whats" and repeatedly electrocuted. The choices there are also very different and clear, but not very appealing.

kevi747 · Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:33 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 38):
Are you kidding me? How can you possibly be committed to voting for any of these pieces of crap?

Because neither of them are pieces of crap. But one of them CLEARLY has the intellect to make good decisions.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 38):
Asking to choose between them is like asking me to choose either having my fingernails slowly pulled out with pliers one by one, or electrodes attached to my "you know whats" and repeatedly electrocuted.

Could you possibly be more dramatic? Yeah sure

I get so sick of that cop out excuse every election cycle. "They're both bad." "It's like trying to decide the lesser of two evils." "I don't like either candidate." OK, we get it: you don't agree with every single thing that either candidate represents. That's why it's called making a decision. It's not always an easy or perfect decision, but thats life. Again, grow a pair and make a choice already.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 38):
The choices there are also very different and clear, but not very appealing.

Not appealing? Fine. Then decide which one you feel has shown BETTER JUDGEMENT. That should make it easier for you. It's very simple: Be an adult, consider their differences, and choose who you believe will lead the best.

I just hope that none of you "undecided's" have any kind of power or authority in your personal or professional lives. How on Earth could you lead (in any capacity) while being so completely incapable of making decisions? scared

dtwclipper · Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:42 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 35):
But then your vote becomes a single issue vote

Not at all. We are being offered a choice of which direction the country will take over a number of years, not just Obama or McCain.

They will be making choices that will come into play years down the road, and that involves many issues.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 35):
Until a person actually casts a vote, all are undecided.

Not if you are out there actively working for a candidate, party or inicitive.

lowrider · Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:07 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 39):
Then decide which one you feel has shown BETTER JUDGEMENT.

If there were only two candidates to choose from, then this would be like picking the turd that smells less. As many have said, it is also a choice whether or not to vote for an outside party as well. If the race looks critically close, then I will go with the lessor of the two mainstream evils, if not, then I will vote for a third party to send a message and to encourage them to field a candidate and campaign more vocally next time.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 39):
How on Earth could you lead (in any capacity) while being so completely incapable of making decisions?

Perhaps you could explain why we should rush to a decision? There is no extra credit for deciding early. You don't get to vote a second time if you decide 8 or 10 months in advance. If you have 180 days to make a decision, there is nothing wrong with waiting until the 179th. If you had any sort of decision making responsibility, you would realize a snap decision is not always the best one.

11Bravo · Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:14 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 37):
If you are liberal, then vote liberal, if you are conservative, then vote conservative.

That doesn't work very well for many of us because we borrow parts of our personal political philosophy from both groups. I think those labels are actually pretty useless. They suggest a simplistic black-and-white dynamic that doesn't stand up very well to the actual complexity of issues or informed critical thinking. Some of my policy preferences are best represented by republicans, while others are best represented by democrats.

Other important factors like judgement, intellect, and temperament have no partisan correlation. Those factors are actually more important to me, except in extreme situations, than policy positions.

DLPMMM · Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:52 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 39):
Not appealing? Fine. Then decide which one you feel has shown BETTER JUDGEMENT. That should make it easier for you. It's very simple: Be an adult, consider their differences, and choose who you believe will lead the best

Maybe you should be better informed as to why all of these idiots are clearly not qualified to be President

Obama has no clue on economic policy and panders to all. His primary campaign platform is class warfare. With him in the Whitehouse, the deficit will balloon further with all new spending programs he has promised, defense will end up gutted, and taxes will be raised. The economy will end up similar to the late 1970s. He has no experience as anything but a leech on society, with no history of ever holding a responsible productive position in his life. He has shown himself to be corrupt in his financial dealings and with his associates. This make Obama unqualified in my opinion.

McCain does not have the intellect or temperment to be president, too often resorting to knee jerk reactions as events unfold. His gullibility exposed in the Keating 5 scandal along with his lack of grasp on the facts surrounding various issues makes him unqualified in my opinion.

Bob Barr is injecting religious planks into a secular Libertarian party. That alone disqualifies him in my book.

Ralph Nader would devastate the economy by decimating the business environment. He's a nutjob.

So who here is worth voting for?

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 39):
I just hope that none of you "undecided's" have any kind of power or authority in your personal or professional lives. How on Earth could you lead (in any capacity) while being so completely incapable of making decisions?

I have a bunch of employees and we are making alot more money than your company, and we also ALL have higher pay than you, so maybe I lead them well.

Just because you are willing to vote for a piece of crap (or are unable to discern what a piece of crap looks like) doesn't mean that I have to as well.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 39):
Because neither of them are pieces of crap. But one of them CLEARLY has the intellect to make good decisions.

I don't know which one you are talking about, but I should be selling you Shine-ola.

All of them are worthless. I doubt that we will ever get a good candidate to run again, given the process.

kevi747 · Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:35 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
Maybe you should be better informed as to why all of these idiots are clearly not qualified to be President

Obama has no clue on economic policy and panders to all. His primary campaign platform is class warfare. With him in the Whitehouse, the deficit will balloon further with all new spending programs he has promised, defense will end up gutted, and taxes will be raised. The economy will end up similar to the late 1970s. He has no experience as anything but a leech on society, with no history of ever holding a responsible productive position in his life. He has shown himself to be corrupt in his financial dealings and with his associates. This make Obama unqualified in my opinion.

McCain does not have the intellect or temperment to be president, too often resorting to knee jerk reactions as events unfold. His gullibility exposed in the Keating 5 scandal along with his lack of grasp on the facts surrounding various issues makes him unqualified in my opinion.

Those are your two choices. One of them will be the next President. Don't like it? Too bad. Pick one. Or one of these:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
Bob Barr is injecting religious planks into a secular Libertarian party. That alone disqualifies him in my book.

Ralph Nader would devastate the economy by decimating the business environment. He's a nutjob.

They have no shot in hell, but if you feel like making a statement, let me say again: At least have the cojones to make a decision and vote for one of them. Or decide not to vote at all, at least that would be a decision. I'm just tired of the indecisiveness. It's become so clichéd and predictable.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
So who here is worth voting for?

Oh my God!! You shouldn't need me to tell you that. YOU decide. That's my whole point. banghead

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
Just because you are willing to vote for a piece of crap (or are unable to discern what a piece of crap looks like) doesn't mean that I have to as well.

Don't project your opinions on me. That's not what this is about. It's about people (adults) being able to think for themselves, form an opinion, and act on that opinion.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
I don't know which one you are talking about, but I should be selling you Shine-ola.

All of them are worthless. I doubt that we will ever get a good candidate to run again, given the process.

So you're just going to sit this one out? Gotcha.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 43):
I have a bunch of employees and we are making alot more money than your company, and we also ALL have higher pay than you, so maybe I lead them well.

Oops! Did I hit a nerve? laughing

How can you possibly lead people while lacking the ability to make decisions? Confused

Also, on a related note: How were you able to decide which bank to deposit your huge paychecks into? Wink

DLPMMM · Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:38 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
They have no shot in hell, but if you feel like making a statement, let me say again: At least have the cojones to make a decision and vote for one of them. Or decide not to vote at all, at least that would be a decision. I'm just tired of the indecisiveness. It's become so clichéd and predictable.

So because of your personal whim and pet peeve, everybody should decide immediatly who to vote for? Who's having the hissy-fit here?

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
Oh my God!! You shouldn't need me to tell you that. YOU decide. That's my whole point.

Obviously you missed the whole point. The question was rhetorical, as there is clearly no one running that is qualified. Would you like me to link you to a dictionary so you cal look up rhetorical?

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
Don't project your opinions on me. That's not what this is about. It's about people (adults) being able to think for themselves, form an opinion, and act on that opinion.

But on your time schedule eh? Talk about projecting opinions on others! Looks to me like you have a very big problem with those that think for themselves.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
So you're just going to sit this one out?

A very distinct posibility.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
Oops! Did I hit a nerve? How can you possibly lead people while lacking the ability to make decisions?

I have no problem making decisions and leading my employees. I also pay them very well. I understand that you might not understand that given your employment position.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
Also, on a related note: How were you able to decide which bank to deposit your huge paychecks into?

No problem. The same bank where I do my coroporate banking. They give me very good terms and lots of personalized service.

kevi747 · Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:10 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
So because of your personal whim and pet peeve, everybody should decide immediatly who to vote for?

Immediately?!?! What rock have you been living under all year?

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 44):
So you're just going to sit this one out?

A very distinct posibility.

There you go again! Just make up your mind already!!! Yes or no? You will or you won't?!? Can you seriously not even make the decision not to decide? box

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
But on your time schedule eh? Talk about projecting opinions on others! Looks to me like you have a very big problem with those that think for themselves.

No, those who WON'T think for themselves.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
I have no problem making decisions and leading my employees. I also pay them very well. I understand that you might not understand that given your employment position.

That's right, I don't. I don't employee anybody. I'm a small cog in a big machine, just the way I like it. Big grin

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
The question was rhetorical, as there is clearly no one running that is qualified. Would you like me to link you to a dictionary so you cal look up rhetorical?

Re...ra...ree..t..t.tori..cal?? Confused

What is this "rhetorical" of which you speak? Yes, pass me the dictionary please. And while we have it out lets look up these other words I'm also unfamiliar with:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
immediatly

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
posibility

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
coroporate

(Just kidding. I hate pointing out typos, but couldn't resist when you brought up the dictionary. Wink

)

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 45):
No problem. The same bank where I do my coroporate banking. They give me very good terms and lots of personalized service.

See there, you are capable of making a decision after all. You weighed the pros and cons of different banks and decided to go with the one that suited you best. Good job! Wink

DLPMMM · Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:52 pm

I would rather make no decision at all than a very stupid decision, you obviously feel differently.

Good luck with your future life choices.

[Edited 2008-10-23 16:03:50]

WunalaYann · Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:46 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 42):
That doesn't work very well for many of us because we borrow parts of our personal political philosophy from both groups. I think those labels are actually pretty useless. They suggest a simplistic black-and-white dynamic that doesn't stand up very well to the actual complexity of issues or informed critical thinking. Some of my policy preferences are best represented by republicans, while others are best represented by democrats.

I think you have said it amazingly well. Clear, concise, accurate and to the point. I could not agree more!! thumbsup

Shades of grey, complexities, pragmatism, etc. are in my opinion superior to party lines and with-us-or-against-us statements.

Smile

tranceport · Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:15 am

I have much more respect for undecided voters who are trying to make sense of the issues and working through the issues to make an informed, educated choice about who best represents them and the well being of the country than ideologues who buy into a party line without any real knowledge or understanding of the issues.

I went into the polling station in the recent Canadian general election as an undecided voter and had to make a decision at the ballot box. The reason I was undecided was that no particular party resonated with me, so it was both time consuming and somewhat confusing to research the party platforms and make a decision on who best represented my values while keeping Canada's best interests in mind.

What I don't understand are people who tow a party line and buy the ideology hook, line and sinker and who resort to a lot of mindless rhetoric without having any real opinion or knowledge of the issues other than smearing the opposition with the endless canned messages fed to them through their respective party leaders and public figures.

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