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md80fanatic
Posts: 2366
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:25 am



Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 95):
Are women's clothing stores really the hotbeds of political activity that they look like or is that just on television?

They are now, thanks to Palin.  Smile

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 95):
Tell us more about life on the campaign trail! It must be a magical experience if a down-to-earth hockey mom can drop $150,000 on clothes in two months just doing obligatory photo ops.

Do you think she volunteered to uproot her life and expose every micron of her, and her family's, personal business for nothing? She was offered a deal by McCain and she took it. That includes perks. Deal with it.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 95):
When she goes back to Alaska in two weeks, does she have to give all that stuff back?

Of course not....and why should she? Her new clothes will still be good for some time after the election. All that stuff will be safe at Number One Observatory Circle until she returns back to do the country's business.
 
AirportSeven
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:50 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 102):
Do you think she volunteered to uproot her life and expose every micron of her, and her family's, personal business for nothing? She was offered a deal by McCain and she took it. That includes perks. Deal with it.

Huh. Some might not look at being chosen as a Vice Presidential candidate as an opportunity to rack up on the perks. But if your candidate was careful enough to make sure there was something in it for her, then more power to her. I hope she bought some really pretty and expensive clothes with the RNC's money (there's quite a bit of money from the oil and gas industries paying for those new threads, too).

Doggone it she worked so hard as the mayor of Wasilla, she deserves a nice new closet full of designer clothes. After all, she had that darn staff meeting on Monday, then she had to turn around and sign checks on Thursday. Gettin' executive experience musta been a dickens of a time by golly and gosh darn.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:00 am



Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 102):
I hope she bought some really pretty and expensive clothes with the RNC's money (there's quite a bit of money from the oil and gas industries paying for those new threads, too).

If I were you guys, I'd be worried about the 90% of all wall street political donations for President going to Obama. Wall street knows who will put more slop in for the hogs...

I think her clothes look fantastic. Very feminine, very professional, very HOT.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 102):
Doggone it she worked so hard as the mayor of Wasilla, she deserves a nice new closet full of designer clothes. After all, she had that darn staff meeting on Monday, then she had to turn around and sign checks on Thursday. Gettin' executive experience musta been a dickens of a time by golly and gosh darn.

I think even Sarah would get a laugh out of this. Ever thought about submitting material for SNL or Mad?
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:14 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 92):
MD80fanatic

The way you defeneded the spending done by Palin on her family and dressing is laughable. Has the US changed into a third world country where the leaders can use the state money without any questions from the supporters? Looking at you I would think yes.
 
mdsh00
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:17 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 42):
Have you had a baby yourself? This was her fifth. She knew what she was doing. Maybe she was a little cavalier, but so what? A friend of mine gave birth at home, alone, with no midwife or anything. Call her nuts if you like, but she's a hell of a tough woman.

You are just making a fool of yourself with this argument.

Walking in late to this one. No I have not have a baby, and nor can I have one. But I have seen plenty of births to know that it was very irresponsible of Gov. Palin. She was on her 5th child. There are also always known risks especially with increasing numbers of pregnancies like uterine rupture or uterine atony after the birth. The mother can bleed to death in minutes. In the obstetrics and general medical world, losing the baby is sad and unfortunate, but losing the mother is devastating for both the doctor and family.

And like DocLightning said, she knew her baby had Down Syndrome, and they have more problems than just mental retardation. That baby needs to be evaluated right away, not be delivered at 30,000 feet in the air. Something tells me that she went flying against her doctor's advice.
 
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johnboy
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:21 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 101):
All that stuff will be safe at Number One Observatory Circle until she returns back to do the country's business.

I was thinking she could drop them off here .

I noticed there's a family store too....maybe she could drop off Bristol's maternity clothes too (unless she plans on using them again soon..hard to tell.)
 
md80fanatic
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:27 am



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 104):
Has the US changed into a third world country where the leaders can use the state money without any questions from the supporters?

It's campaign money, and it's purpose is to be used to get two people elected by any legal means available. As much as I hate to admit it...in today's world image means a lot. To succeed, especially against all odds, requires careful attention to image. That costs money.

Only Jesus could campaign in burlap and still get elected.  scratchchin 
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:36 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 107):
Hmm. If you have kids who are afraid of the dark, perhaps it's not the best idea to leave them at home alone. You're really reaching on this one, and just for good measure you're reaching quite a bit beyond that.

This whole topic is a reach. HAHA I think I'm taking crazy pills.  crazy 

So this is all you got on Sarah Palin? Whaddya know, a real life June Cleaver for VP.  Smile
In the end it will be Mrs. Clean from Alaska vs. the cigarette huffing hypnotist from Chicago.

:D
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:36 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):


1) Intelligent Design. Taught with evolution, another theory. If taught instead of evolution, that is pushing values.

Intelligent design is not a scientific theory. By definition. Thus, it should not be taught in science classes. Intelligent Design is an attempt to get around previous court decisions stating that it is unconstitutional to teach creationism, a religious philosophy, in science classes. Anyone who knows anything about the situation and claims otherwise is a liar.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):
2) Limit to abortion access/overturning Roe v. Wade Value taught - to be consistent in our judgements. If murder if unlawful, abortion being legal would be inconsistent. Still Doc, between you and me, I can't see why abortion would affect you so much.

It affects me because it directly affects every woman in this country. Those women are my friends, my family, and my patients.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):
3) Limit to family planning access So? What we need is pre-sex- family planning. Once the baby is conceived....it's kinda late for family planning. What's wrong with this?

Family planning is birth control. That means making condoms readily available to teenagers, following recommendations that levonorgestrel (PLAN B) be made available over the counter to all age groups, and mandating that health insurance companies cover family planning methods including IUD placement.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):

4) Abstinence-only education mandated in schools And 8 year old kids won't get their invaluable condom and banana demonstrations, nor will they learn about the joys of homosexuality. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is that abstinence-only education has been demonstrated to have no beneficial effect on teenage pregnancy rate or teenage STD rate. In fact, it has been shown to increase risky sexual behaviors among teenagers.

Given this evidence, the only individuals who would consider continuing such a program are those who are dogmatically (religiously) committed to it, regardless of whether it is effective. Dogma does not belong in government and religion certainly does not.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):

5) Banning gay marriage It's banned nearly everywhere already.

So was women's suffrage. That doesn't mean that a concerted effort by the religious right to keep it banned is defensible. That same religious right fought to oppose women's suffrage and interracial marriage, too.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 51):

6) Blocking attempts to add sexual orientation to the list of classes protected by anti-discrimination law It's a complicated issue as I am certain you know. I would just like to ask you to not give the impression that not having sexual orientation listed does not mean there is a group of people who would like to be able to keep discriminating against you legally.

It is not a complicated issue. You add "sexual orientation" to that list of "race, religion, national origin, marital status, etc." Very simple. As for people trying to do it legally, it will close some opportunities.

The question, MD80, is why anyone would oppose a clause to ensure that a class of people are granted the same rights and protections that anyone else is. Again, the only reason that ever comes up is religion.

And you know what? I would bet anything that if there were still anti-sodomy laws on the books, you'd support them.

Why would someone support such policies unless s/he was dogmatically committed to them? I don't need the government to preach dogma to me. I don't need them to tell me who I can have sex with, who I can marry, whether a woman can get an abortion, or which version of whose supernatural being created the world.

And I am thankful that Obama is on track to win because he will fight to put a lot of that nonsense to rest.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:54 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 108):
The question, MD80, is why anyone would oppose a clause to ensure that a class of people are granted the same rights and protections that anyone else is. Again, the only reason that ever comes up is religion.

I can think of many reasons...but the first is the fact that it would open a floodgate of other perceived groups to petition for the same special rights. Before long we'd need to wear our individual rights on our clothes to be sure we do not violate someone's special rights by accident.

I guess it boils down to this.....

The "classes" of people listed were determined scientifically to be in that class by no choice of their own. Apparently science isn't yet satisfied that homosexuality is a class, and not a just a choice. Otherwise I'd be apt to think maybe there was some conspiracy against gays.
 
Superfly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:57 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 76):
"enough with the shallow reporting - Americans want to hear about things that matter to their every day lives"

He has been saying that all along.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 76):
These boards are not a good indication of that in the least.

Anyone could have told you that. This is the last place to get a good indication on just about anything. It's just fun watching the neocons go through great lengths to defend failed policies of BushCheneyMcCain.  Smile
 
Arrow
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:59 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 89):
Not like Alaska. I was born in Powhatton Ohio and spent many years shovelling snow and coal to stay warm. But even that was nothing compared to Anchorage.

You need to do some research before you make statements like that. By Alaskan standards (and Canadian standards, and even Ohio standards) Anchorage is very mild. Being close to the ocean does that, even up north.

From the Anchorage.net site:

Anchorage Weather, Climate and Forecast

Anchorage has long been plagued with many a misconception about its being cold and dark. The truth is, Anchorage is far south of the Arctic Circle. Protected by the Chugach Mountains and warmed by Japanese currents of the Pacific Ocean, the climate is actually quite mild year-round.


It is unconscionable for Palin to bill the state a per diem for 300 nights she spent at home. How many people in the work force do you think get to bill their employer for working at home? And 40 miles on a freeway? I bet the commute is well under an hour. The real question, though, is whether or not the IRS will see that per diem as expense money or salary. I don't like her chances.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:10 am



Quoting Arrow (Reply 111):
, the climate is actually quite mild year-round.

If you think 5 months of continuous below freezing temperatures are mild, then it must be a matter of perspective. Mine, from Ohio, never included such a long freeze.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 111):
How many people in the work force do you think get to bill their employer for working at home?

Many more than you might think.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:11 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 109):
I can think of many reasons...but the first is the fact that it would open a floodgate of other perceived groups to petition for the same special rights.

We've been through this enough. There are no rights that gay people are asking for that are "special." And I don't see what other groups you're concerned for.

Wait...wait. I do see. "Pedophiles and bestialists." Right?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 109):
Apparently science isn't yet satisfied that homosexuality is a class, and not a just a choice.

1) Homosexuality (at least male) is not a choice. For female homosexuality, the evidence is far less.

2) Religion is a protected class. And I'm pretty sure that's a choice.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:31 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 112):
If you think 5 months of continuous below freezing temperatures are mild, then it must be a matter of perspective.

After looking at Anchorage's temperatures, i would definitely say they are mild. But as you say, it is all relative. Hell, -10C or so in january is almost t-shirt weather! I am barely over the US border, and i would kill for anchorage's temperatures in the winter. Overnight lows here can reach about -30F(not including the windchill) for at least a few weeks of the winter in january and february.
 
Arrow
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:37 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 112):
If you think 5 months of continuous below freezing temperatures are mild, then it must be a matter of perspective.

Having lived in places where 30 straight days of -40 is not uncommon, I guess you're right about perspective. But Anchorage doesn't have "5 months of continuous below freezing temperatures." The average high temps are all in the mid 20sF for the four coldest months -- and remember how averages are generated. I bet most states in the midwest are colder than that.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 112):
Many more than you might think.

You can back that up with some stats any time you're ready.
 
NAV20
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:03 am



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 104):
And like DocLightning said, she knew her baby had Down Syndrome, and they have more problems than just mental retardation. That baby needs to be evaluated right away, not be delivered at 30,000 feet in the air. Something tells me that she went flying against her doctor's advice.

I mentioned two possible explanations earlier:-

1. She was totally irresponsible, or:-

2. She's lying in her teeth.

There is, of course, a third one - almost unthinkable, but maybe not 'un-postable.' Call it possibility 2(b)........

2(b) She's lying in her teeth because she wasn't pregnant at all. And the 'dash home' was indeed due to a premature birth - but of her daughter's child, not her own...........

I've had three 'careful drives to the hospital' myself. I can honestly say that it wouldn't have occurred to either my wife or myself to waste a moment of time in getting there, as soon as the contractions began in earnest; for the sake of the child, if for no other reason.

I simply can't believe that any woman who had had the waters break would have committed to a half-hour speech, about six hours of air travel, and an hour's drive on top of that. Never mind 'medical advice' - it would have been 100% against the instincts of both parents, especially the wife's.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:23 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 100):
Do you think she volunteered to uproot her life and expose every micron of her, and her family's, personal business for nothing? She was offered a deal by McCain and she took it. That includes perks. Deal with it.

your about to find out just how slack the process was when it came to choosing Palin...
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:35 am



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 116):
it would have been 100% against the instincts of both parents, especially the wife's.

At least of any parents who I might also want running the country.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 42):
Have you had a baby yourself? This was her fifth.

I fear that I lack such plumbing. However, there was a period of my life where I would go to deliveries and resuscitate babies 3-4 times daily. I hated it. But I was very good at it because it was my job. So, although I have had no babies, I think I'm quite qualified to speak about what is medically recommended and what is not and how births tend to go and how they don't.

I find it amazing that a multiparous woman with ruptured membranes would be able to give a speech and then fly for a good 9 hours and a drive before giving birth. Mothers who have had more than one child usually deliver rapidly and sometimes even precipitously.

I'm starting to go with NAV20 here. I have trouble believing it.
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:37 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 110):
It's just fun watching the neocons go through great lengths to defend failed policies of BushCheneyMcCain.

Just as it's fun to watch the liberals get all knotted up trying to prove Sen. Obama has "experience".
 
ltbewr
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:32 am

The latest polling numbers from a variety of sources and looking at the canidates abilities on key issues, shows much better numbers for Obama over McCain but for 'security' issues. Obama's numbers overwhelm McCain by huge percentages on the economy, demeanor, and so on. It also appears the Demo's Bush-McCain connections, the economy and the choice of Palin as VP are all hurting McCain.

As to the clothing and related expenses allegedly of $150K at high end designer stores and department stores, it does come off bad. Part of that probalby included a lot of tailoring to get the outfits to fit just right at rush rates. Maybe they could have her shopped at the non-designer sections of Macy's, or go to JC Penney or Kohl's for outfits and spent a fraction of what the RNC did.Investing $150K is very tiny compared to the chance to keep control of the White House and Trillions of $$$'s at their control for the next 4 years. By the way Florida Gov. Crist during an appearance on MSNBC this morning said that the RNC plans to donate the outfits bought for Palin after the election.
 
Zentraedi
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:19 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 120):
By the way Florida Gov. Crist during an appearance on MSNBC this morning said that the RNC plans to donate the outfits bought for Palin after the election.

That's just a ridiculous and quite frankly meaningless thing for Crist to have said.


Anyway, I think that $150K is really sort of a non-issue. I highly doubt Palin took it upon herself to demand that go wild. It's really, no different than allocating money for marketing and event preparation.

I suppose there will be some who use this against Palin, saying Joe the Plumber's wive doesn't shop at Saks, but that could really blow up in their faces. Lots of people in Washington, on both sides of the aisle, are clothed and groomed by the high end.

The issue should just die. There are already many valid points to push. Push to many, and people will become apathetic to all.
 
mt99
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:07 pm

I generally don't like to quote from blogs or opinion columns.. but here is something well written that has advice on the mythical "Joe the Plumber"

"If you do surpass the $250,000 threshold, you'd only pay 3 percent more on the dollars you earn above that amount. If you pay yourself $300,000, that means $1,500 in additional taxes.

I'm guessing right now, if I offered you $50,000 but said you'd have to pay $1,500 more in taxes, you'd take it in a heartbeat. Well, that $50,000 is an even better deal when you're wealthier, because it wouldn't be subject to the FICA you pay on all your earnings today. And it would come on top of having your basic needs in life pretty well covered.

If you don't like that deal, you'd have another choice. You could put up those extra dollars into health care for your employees, send them to training, buy a new truck, beef up your advertising, get some help to do the paperwork or even hire another plumber who could produce more revenue.

And then write your income back down to $249,999.

http://www.minnpost.com/community_vo...8/joe_the_plumber_stopped_by_taxes
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:34 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 116):
2(b) She's lying in her teeth because she wasn't pregnant at all. And the 'dash home' was indeed due to a premature birth - but of her daughter's child, not her own...........

I predicted this yesterday, NAV.....in fact I knew it the moment the badgering began regarding Palin and her baby. There was no other logical explanation for the irrationality expressed by this crowd about a baby.

2 points for me.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 117):
your about to find out just how slack the process was when it came to choosing Palin...

Bring it.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 119):
Just as it's fun to watch the liberals get all knotted up trying to prove Sen. Obama has "experience".

The only fun left on airliners.net.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 122):
I'm guessing right now, if I offered you $50,000 but said you'd have to pay $1,500 more in taxes, you'd take it in a heartbeat. Well, that $50,000 is an even better deal when you're wealthier, because it wouldn't be subject to the FICA you pay on all your earnings today. And it would come on top of having your basic needs in life pretty well covered.

If I offered you 10 million, and asked you to pay $9,900,000 in taxes, you'd take it in a heartbeat. What's the point? That using this technique of argumentation is deceptive?

Put on foot in front of the other, and walk away.  Smile
 
AGM100
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:46 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 57):
Anybody who didn't fall in love with John Lennon lyrics at 22 had something seriously wrong with them...people of all stripes and backgrounds love the guy, period.

I was referring to Lenin , and I didn't fall in love with Lennon's lyrics... guess that explains alot. At 22 I was way too busy to sit and ponder why my country was so wicked that communism may be the answer. I guess that is why I am not running for office. I was also playing guitar in a rock band ... but we didn't do Beatles cover . Mostly I was working on 727's and going to night school... chasing the dream.. and loving it!

That is one of my problems with Senator Obama, I knew the career students when I was in college. They spend 12 years getting a law degree that you can get in 4 , but it keeps them from having to get there hands dirty in the real world. College although it offers some clear experience is not the real world IMO. I just never have related well with people who did not get dirty , take risks and suffer hard ships that come from the working world... just my lame opinion but it is a concern for me. Its not a reason to vote against him, but it does not help.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 71):
Demand they continue reporting on successes in Afghanistan and how an Obama administration would seek to continue them.

Absolutely correct , ! I have been trying to get a clear picture of his plan. So far I believe he wants to bolster troop levels their and fight ... I agree with him 100%.
 
AirportSeven
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:58 pm

Old Man McCain wants all you western PA rednecks to get off his lawn. Grrrrr. I couldn't agree with them or not you agreeing with them and you, me more. Grrrr.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113):
1) Homosexuality (at least male) is not a choice.

Has this been proven? If so I must have missed it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113):
2) Religion is a protected class. And I'm pretty sure that's a choice.

Freedom of religion is in the Constitution, so of course laws will be on the books to provide a framework for enforcement. At the time it was written, religious persecution was high on the priority list.

The class I was thinking about were the much teased and discriminated against little boys and girls who tend to be smarter and geekier than all the other kids. They have it hard, everyday they get pushed around, lunch money stolen, laughed at....and there have been countless movies made that promote the abuse....albeit with the nerd winning in the end.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 115):
You can back that up with some stats any time you're ready.

There are a growing number of people, more when gasoline was climbing through the roof, who are working at home for their employer to save gas and congestion on the roads. The internet and customised interfaces to company computers allow this new trend. Of course the people do not sit at home and volunteer their time, they bill hours spent to their employer.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:09 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 126):
There are a growing number of people, more when gasoline was climbing through the roof, who are working at home for their employer to save gas and congestion on the roads. The internet and customised interfaces to company computers allow this new trend. Of course the people do not sit at home and volunteer their time, they bill hours spent to their employer.

Working from home is one thing, no one who sleeps in there own bed charges for that. She is charging the state the cost of a hotel room when she is sleeping at home.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:11 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 126):
There are a growing number of people, more when gasoline was climbing through the roof, who are working at home for their employer to save gas and congestion on the roads. The internet and customised interfaces to company computers allow this new trend. Of course the people do not sit at home and volunteer their time, they bill hours spent to their employer.

That's very different that getting a per diem while you stay home, isn't it?
 
md80fanatic
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:21 pm

You guys are confusing Arrow's question. He was asking me to provide proof of people charging their employers to work from home. I wasn't saying Palin was doing this.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:23 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 129):
You guys are confusing Arrow's question. He was asking me to provide proof of people charging their employers to work from home. I wasn't saying Palin was doing this.

Thats the whole argument why are you suddenly changing it. There is a BIG difference from working from home legitimately and charging the state and using your home residence as a hotel.
 
Charles79
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:35 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 119):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 110):
It's just fun watching the neocons go through great lengths to defend failed policies of BushCheneyMcCain.

Just as it's fun to watch the liberals get all knotted up trying to prove Sen. Obama has "experience".

Actually, it's becoming quite painful to see both sides try and defend their pathetic candidates. Let's see:

On McCain:
- He's age is NOT the issue, is his health. A healthy 72-yr-old can be President; a 72-yr-old with serious health issues cannot. So far we don't have any concrete evidence to suggest that he's the latter, so liberals drop the age thing, it gets old....

- that said, given his age and often the way he looks out of steam his choice for VP becomes even more crucial. He chose one with too limited experience. And the attacks on Obama as a terrorist and his followers using Obama's middle name as a tasteless joke do not bode well with independent voters like me.

- McCain boasts about being a maverick, and up until 2006 he was a maverick. But ever since he started to put on a credible campaign for President he's views shifted dramatically to the right, to the point that at the beginning of his campaign he did sound like Bush. He has failed miserably since then to distance himself from Bush.

- His campaign has taken on a very negative tone as of late, and he is coming across as bitter. He blindingly voted for the bailout (like Obama) and, like Obama, is still to mention how he plans to reconcile his plans with our shrinking budget. He has talked about plans for Iraq but barely mentions Afghanistan, his tax plans are questionable to help the middle class, and his health care has too many holes that he hasn't covered yet. Add to that his support for the invasion of Iraq despite worldwide concern and opposition for it (which proved to be correct), and he has to defend his record as not being Bush. He was right about the surge, but that's like being right about treating a shot wound after you were the shot you shot the person.

On Palin:
- Palin's wardrobe and her child's birth have NOTHING to do with her ability (or lack thereof) to run the country.

- Palin's expenses against the state of Alaska are questionable (as a former government employee I know that plane tickets for family members can only be counted in certain circumstances, not on 4 day trips). That said, it's the problem of whoever authorized her expense report.

- What Palin does lack is crucial experience, at both running anything substantial (she's been Gov for 2 years, not enough in my book) and she seriously lacks any type of foreign experience. She also dragged religion into the campaign and now says that she wants an outright ban on gay marriage (something not even McCain wants at the Federal level). Her supposed strength is energy and even there she can't see the real problem, which is our fatal addiction to the private car as the sole means for commuting to work. All in all, she is not fit to be VP, much less President. Give her another 4 years (and get rid of her high morale ground, I'm holier than thou attitude) and maybe we can reconsider.

On Biden:
- Where do I begin, is this life-long politician supposed to represent "change"? He himself said that Obama was not fit to be President and now talks about Obama's experience? Biden has a tenacity to use partisan speech and typical political BS to be taken seriously. This is one VP candidate that should have been left in the shelf.

On Obama:
- Oh, the Messiah! He who will make the world better with just his eloquence! Problem is, his rhetoric is empty and he has as much experience as Palin (i.e. not a lot). Alright, Obama does have a tiny bit more experience than Palin, but how much experience can you get as a US Senator when you essentially served only half your term?

- Obama had a meteoric rise to fame but his record doesn't speak President; it speaks more as a VP resume (and would have been a good one at that). He rarely (if ever) opposed his party (at least McCain has a record of doing so), and just like McCain voted for that inadequate bailout which gave the Treasury Sec more power than any President ever held over the economy. Again just like McCain, he has very ambitious programs but he offers no explanation about how he'll pay for it, while promising tax cuts that will probably never happen as he realizes that the Federal government is broke.

- He was right about opposing Iraq and at least he is talking about Afghanistan. However, he opposed the surge (which, inevitably, had to take place) and doesn't show a thorough understanding of the situation when he just wants a blanket troop withdrawal date. We shouldn't never gone in, but that doesn't mean that we should f*k up our exit.

- He didn't do a good job in distancing himself from his pastor and I'm still not convinced that he attended the church for 20-odd years and never heard a single controversial thing while there. And even though he did live abroad he knows he lacked foreign experience, something which did not change after his "world tour" over the summer.

Alright, that's what I see thus far. I apologize for the long post but since we don't have a central thread to talk about both candidates this had to do. Maybe I'll post it on the Obama/Biden thread as well.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2366
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:04 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 130):
Thats the whole argument why are you suddenly changing it.

I didn't change anything. I was asked a specific question and I gave a specific answer.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:24 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
No, I am pointing out a few household names that are backing Obama. I am -not- saying the household names are in any other way related....that is a presumption you and many others are making. I am not certain why this is so infuriating, as any other time you would say something like "Just because a group of people like the same movie, does not mean that they would like each other"....which makes sense. What is keeping your normally reasoning self from dismissing my grouping as being just that, just a grouping?

In case you still like to play the "look at the bad people who like Obama" game, you should enjoy this:

The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/238985.php
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113):
1) Homosexuality (at least male) is not a choice. For female homosexuality, the evidence is far less.

Hmmmm...so that means that male homosexuals should recieve protections (since it's not a choice) that female homosexuals don't (since it may be their choice)? And they say we white hetro males are sexist!  rotfl  Where does that leave the old transgendered crowd? No choice and no return?  rotfl 

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113):
2) Religion is a protected class. And I'm pretty sure that's a choice.

Freedom of religion is protected, not the religion itself as many a mail order theologian has found out to their dismay.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:34 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 131):

Actually, it's becoming quite painful to see both sides try and defend their pathetic candidates.

Yet they continue going at each other and don't reply substantially to these concerns. Go figure.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 134):

In case you still like to play the "look at the bad people who like Obama" game, you should enjoy this:

That's hardly a reliable source.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:37 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 89):
Not like Alaska. I was born in Powhatton Ohio and spent many years shovelling snow and coal to stay warm. But even that was nothing compared to Anchorage.

Seems someone has never been to Anchorage.
Average Anchorage ---- 15.37" precip ----- 69.0" snowfall
Now compare to Buffalo, N.Y., receives an average of 80" to 100" of snow per year. Some parts of the UP of Michigan receive nearly 300"..

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 92):
Sarah Palin truly is not a Washington insider. Per Think Progress, she told a local television station in Colorado (in response to a question from a third grader), that the Vice President is "in charge of the U.S. Senate, so if they want to they, can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes.""

Her understanding of the role of the Vice-President, well is lacking..

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 127):
Working from home is one thing, no one who sleeps in there own bed charges for that. She is charging the state the cost of a hotel room when she is sleeping at home.

I believe that is called Theft, stealing, fraudulent acts..
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:51 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 136):
That's hardly a reliable source.

Feel free not to believe it then. I posted something, with a source. If you don't believe it, don't believe it. I'm beyond tired of that response.

Which source are you referring to, anyway? Talkingpointsmemo.com? al-Hesbah ?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...as/us_elections/article4989853.ece

There is not a single source I could post any fact or opinion from that wouldn't get exactly that response from someone.

NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NYTimes and most any other newspaper, etc, etc.

Someone pulled that handy refrain out yesterday too. I then spent about 41 seconds googling and found multiple other sources but opted not to post them because I should not have to post 25 sources for each posting just on the off chance that one of them will meet someone's subjective requirements as "reliable" or "unbiased."

The fact that Al Qaeda "endorses" McCain isn't very meaningful to me anyway. It's only fun to throw it out there after some McCain supporter gets excited because Fidel Castro "endorsed" Obama.

I know that there are more important issues to discuss but that's not a very productive endeavor on this forum.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2366
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:59 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 134):
In case you still like to play the "look at the bad people who like Obama" game, you should enjoy this:

The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I saw that article early yesterday but decided not to post it. You see, I understand (like you did prior) that because even if a whole slew of terrorists, sympathizers, or otherwise supports a candidate, does not mean the candidate supports the terrorists.

I said the same about my list, but that was obviously ignored.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:00 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 136):
That's hardly a reliable source.

Oh get over it. The mainstream media is reporting on this story too.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...9c9KTpdbjhYyuWIlZyAuyqeJgD93VA3B80
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17970
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:02 pm



Quoting A332 (Reply 139):

Oh get over it. The mainstream media is reporting on this story too.

Blah blah. The mainstream media spent hours letting pundits discuss the effect of Palin's SNL appearance on the campaign. They are hardly reliable these days either.

Fact is, the sourced article is yet another diversionary comment taking focus away from what these candidates really need to be looking at if either of them aren't going to make a larger mess of what we've already got.
 
Superfly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:06 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 119):
Just as it's fun to watch the liberals get all knotted up trying to prove Sen. Obama has "experience".

No one is doing that. Obama certainly has the experience to bring down McCain/Bush/Cheney & Co.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:12 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 140):
Fact is, the sourced article is yet another diversionary comment taking focus away from what these candidates really need to be looking at if either of them aren't going to make a larger mess of what we've already got.

You know what? You're not the only person that understands that. Not even the only person on this forum. Shocking, eh?

The fact of the matter is that politics is in a sorry state in this country. As much as Obama's campaign tries to discuss issues, McCain's campaign clouds the waters with diversionary tripe - - and people eat it up. Then, there has to be a round of setting the record straight and often some sort of retaliatory barb.

Neither side is innocent. The fact that you don't like it (I don't either) doesn't mean that we can't/shouldn't discuss these topics here.

Furthermore, if either camp talked truly straight on what they would and wouldn't be able to accomplish given the economic mess they'll inherit, the opposition would eat them alive and it would very likely undercut their chances at office. Sad as it may be, it's too risky.
 
Arrow
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 126):
Of course the people do not sit at home and volunteer their time, they bill hours spent to their employer.



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 129):
You guys are confusing Arrow's question. He was asking me to provide proof of people charging their employers to work from home. I wasn't saying Palin was doing this.

You don't get it. That's either accidental or wilful, and I don't know you well enough to gauge which.

I work at home full time. I bill my clients for hours worked, and I bill them for legitimate out-of-pocket expenses related to the work I'm doing for them. I get to deduct normal, generic office expenses from my taxable income because I am self-employed. I do not charge clients a per diem for sleeping in my own bed.

My wife occasionally works from home, for which she continues to draw her salary (just like Governor Palin). She doesn't charge her employer a per diem on top of that because she's working at home. And because she is salaried, she can't claim home office expenses as deductions from her income, nor does she bill her employer for those expenses. If she worked at home full-time at her employer's request, that would be different and there would be some negotiations about compensation for office expenses. No per diem for sleeping in her own bed, though.

I would bet that 99% of the workforce follows similar rules and behaviour, and that there might be the odd exception who charges a per diem for very specific circumstances I can't think of.

The issue here for "I said no to the bridge to nowhere" Palin is that when you add up all her expense claims, including all the stuff for her kids that have just been revealed, the picture painted is not one of a fiscal conservative interested in efficiency and reform, but of a very ambitious woman who is going to push the expense envelope dramatically out of shape to make sure that her public service is well-rewarded. Her $150K clothing allowance from the Republican Party (I assume they paid it) is another chink out of her armor.

It remains to be seen how all that expense stuff plays out -- both with the State of Alaska and with the IRS. But for a lady who, along with everyone else, has been spouting off about greed and avarice on Wall Street, she is dangerously close to being a shameless hypocrite. I could perhaps accept some of that if she had any qualifications for the job she seeks, but she doesn't.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 140):
Fact is, the sourced article is yet another diversionary comment taking focus away from what these candidates really need to be looking at if either of them aren't going to make a larger mess of what we've already got.

If you're expecting anything else between now and election day, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

As former Canadian PM Kim Campbell once said, "an election is no time to discuss serious issues".... who knew it would become so true.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:29 pm

Now imagine if you saw a picture of Palin like this ..... I am sure it would be interpreted quite differently.


Big version: Width: 382 Height: 255 File size: 10kb
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:40 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 145):
Now imagine if you saw a picture of Palin like this ..... I am sure it would be interpreted quite differently.

I don't get it. Could you provide some insight into what you're suggesting?
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2366
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:41 pm

OMG, what a shocker. All even from this point forward. ATTACK!!!  biting 

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93VM4PO0&show_article=1
 
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mbmbos
Posts: 2988
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:10 pm

Here's a Reuters poll that was released today showing Obama with a ten point lead:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE49J0LF20081022

Here's a Pew Poll from yesterday showing a 14 point lead for Obama:

http://people-press.org/report/462/obamas-lead-widens
 
AirportSeven
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:08 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:13 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 147):
OMG, what a shocker. All even from this point forward. ATTACK!!! biting

Experience has shown that the McCain campaign's cheap theatrics and half-truths give him only brief bounces in the polls. RUN AWAY!!!
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