U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 6

moderators · Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 am

Users have requested that we bring some organization to the large number of posts being made about the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election in the non-aviation forum. For this reason, we’re creating ‘official’ threads to provide some structure to the overall subject, and make it easier for readers to contribute and follow the various discussions.

Six threads are being created, including this one. If you want to add a post, please make sure you’re adding it to the most appropriate of the choices shown below:

Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign (this thread)
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Campaign
Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Polls & Projections
Official U.S. Election – Humor, Commentary, Etc.

Examples of content appropriate for this thread:

McCain/Palin (and GOP) campaign speeches, interviews, clips, gaffes, sound bites, advertising, press releases, etc.

As this is now part 6 for this topic the previous thread is linked U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 5 to assist with the discussion.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:43 pm

Quote:
"You are attempting to make the point that E is analogous to A, B, and C. Which is entirely wrong. And, in this case, shameful, since there is no comparison at all between Colin Powell and Fidel Castro."

No, I am pointing out a few household names that are backing Obama. I am -not- saying the household names are in any other way related....that is a presumption you and many others are making. I am not certain why this is so infuriating, as any other time you would say something like "Just because a group of people like the same movie, does not mean that they would like each other"....which makes sense. What is keeping your normally reasoning self from dismissing my grouping as being just that, just a grouping?

Quote:
A baby certainly should not be born on an airplane if you can avoid it. That's what hospitals are for.

I presume it was her chartered plane, for state business? Quite a bit different since she more than likely had a medical staff on duty, and the hardware necessary, to observe here. Jumping on an Alaska MD-83 to the tundra may not have been the best choice,

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Interesting paragraph in this article....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081020/D93UFA0G0.html

in reference to Sen. Lindsay Graham.....

Taking aim at Obama, Graham implored the crowd: "Show us that you understand and see a liberal when he's standing out there in front of you. Make sure you show America that it does matter that you keep your word if you're president of the United States."

Curious wording from a fellow Senator.

NAV20 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:49 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
I presume it was her chartered plane, for state business? Quite a bit different since she more than likely had a medical staff on duty, and the hardware necessary, to observe here. Jumping on an Alaska MD-83 to the tundra may not have been the best choice,

Apparently it was an Alaskan Airlines scheduled flight from Dallas to Anchorage with a stopover in Seattle, MD80fanatic. Even after that, she didn't check in to a hospital in Anchorage, but embarked on a further hour's drive to Palmer.

"In April, reportedly 36 weeks pregnant, Palin flew to Dallas to give a speech. Before the speech, she began to leak amniotic fluid. Tough Alaska moose-hunter that she is, she gave the speech anyway. She called her family doctor, who is not an OB-GYN, who allegedly told her it would be OK to fly back to Alaska. For the record, there are hospitals in Dallas.

*In April, reportedly 36 weeks pregnant, Palin flew to Dallas to give a speech. Before the speech, she began to leak amniotic fluid. Tough Alaska moose-hunter that she is, she gave the speech anyway. She called her family doctor, who is not an OB-GYN, who allegedly told her it would be OK to fly back to Alaska. For the record, there are hospitals in Dallas.

"Having given up the governor's private plane, Palin flew commercial, not telling Alaska Airlines that she was in labor and that her water had broken. No airline personnel seemed to note her as a woman about to give birth.

"Her looooong Dallas to Alaska flight had a stopover in Seattle. There are also hospitals there.

"So Palin finally arrived in Anchorage, where the airport (ironically named after Alaska Sen. Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens) is six miles from possibly the best medical facility in the state, Providence Hospital. Providence is one of two hospitals in Anchorage that has a NICU unit, which could come in handy for a 40-plus woman, just off a long flight, about to give birth to a premature baby with Down syndrome.

"Palin, however, drove (or was driven) approximately an hour to the much smaller Mat-Su Regional Hospital in Palmer, Alaska, which does not seem to have a NICU unit.

*Palin reportedly gave birth to the baby on April 18. There was no record of the birth on the hospital Web site, although two other babies born that day got photos."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/feat..._without_a_pregnancy_cover-up.html

Fishy as hell, IMO. Either she's totally irresponsible, willing to risk the life of a child for no good reason; or she's lying in her teeth.

I have no opinion either way at the moment. But I cannot see any OTHER possible explanations for her actions that day.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:11 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
Fishy as hell, IMO. Either she's totally irresponsible, willing to risk the life of a child for no good reason; or she's lying in her teeth.

Or we aren't getting the whole story.

C'mon NAV, you know a woman does not -need- a hospital to do what comes naturally. My mother worked as a nurse the day I was born, and the day after. There is probably large chunks of that story missing that would fill up the holes that make you go scratchchin

.

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:25 pm

New York Observer, Jason Horowitz, October 20, 2008

First, Representative Patrick McHenry cheered what he called the “biggest crowd John McCain has gotten in North Carolina” and emphasized that this was a critical election with a stark choice between the candidates.

“It’s like black and white,” someone in the crowd at the Cabarrus Arena & Events Center yelled out, laughing. McHenry let the remark pass and finished his speech. He yielded the microphone to Representative Robin Hayes, who prefaced his comments by saying it was important to “make sure we don’t say something stupid, make sure we don’t say something we don’t mean.” Republicans, he reminded the crowd, were kind people. Plus, he added, the liberal media had shown itself eager to distort such remarks. With the crowd duly chastened and put on best behavior, he accused Obama of “inciting class warfare” and said that “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.”

Lots of fail in just the first two paragraphs.

The crowd goes ahead and indicates that it's all about race in North Carolina. Of course, the speaker doesn't call them out on it. Then, after accusing Obama of inciting class warfare, Rep. Hayes goes ahead and INCITES SOME CLASS WARFARE.

The hits keep on coming.

"“He is behind in the polls. He has to tell the American people who Obama is. I don’t know who Obama is, except for being a powerful speaker, and so was Adolf Hitler, so was Fidel Castro."

"the only cars that I see with Obama signs on them are—you’re going to think this is racist—but black people’s cars."

"Asked if her business made more than $250,000 a year, the cap under which Obama has proposed cutting taxes, she said it did. Told about Obama’s proposal, she answered, “I don’t give a shit. I will never vote for a black man.”

You stay classy, McCain supporters. Your hate and fear and intolerance will keep you warm through the long, cold winter.

NAV20 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:26 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Or we aren't getting the whole story.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
There is probably large chunks of that story missing

Couldn't agree more, MD. Care to speculate as to WHY we're not getting all the information?

Aaron747 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:38 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
Curious wording from a fellow Senator.

"If I'm elected president, I won't spend nearly a trillion dollars more of your money (on new programs). Sen. Obama will. And he can't do that without raising your taxes or digging us further into debt. I'm going to make government live on a budget, just like you do."

Curious wording from McCain, since fact check after fact check would suggest that his tax plan and continued bailout support will also leave Americans saddled with incredible debt and deficits, only slightly less so than Obama. Both of these guys are spouting off pie in the sky crap and THEY STILL WON'T LEVEL WITH THE PEOPLE about it. Pathetic.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 6):
liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God

Yeah and the guy you're stumping for supports illegal immigration. Go figure.

RJdxer · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:56 pm

From the previous thread
A332:

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 263):
According to Mr. Powell, Senator Obama impressed him with his calm and his statements. I'm just asking what those statements were because I don't remember them.

Have you been living under a rock over the last couple months? Did you even watch any of the debates? If you can answer 'yes' to either question, then you have all the examples you need.

That is not what Mr. Powell referred to. He said during the beginning of the financial crisis. Can you name one thing that Sen. Obama said during even the debate that Friday night that was origianl thinking or an original proposal in how to deal with the crisis? All I heard were regurgitated lines about how it was all greedy Wall Street bankers faults and President Bushes "deregulation" that caused it. Not one word about Fannie Mae or Freddie Macs responsibility in the mess. That would have hit too close to home. Not one word on how to solve the problem other than to follow Sec. Paulson's advice. So, yes I did watch the debate that Friday, no I did not watch the last debate. In the time in between the debates Sen. McCain was pilloried in the press for changing his economic plans while Sen. Obama retooled his in the weekend before the debate and received nary a whimper of protest from the press. The only examples to be found are those that other people have already suggested. Nothing original from the Obama campaign. If you would care to cite something original from them please do. You know, people who are in complete shock at how far over their heads things have gotten often sound calm. It's not that they are, they are just so bewildered that it comes across that way.

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:57 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
Yeah and the guy you're stumping for supports illegal immigration. Go figure.

Obama doesn't support illegal immigration. And what does that have to do with someone claiming that liberals hate Americans who work and believe in God?

Aaron747 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:00 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 9):
And what does that have to do with someone claiming that liberals hate Americans who work and believe in God?

I was referring to that ignoramus Hayes. He's stumping for McCain while throwing out that garbage about 'real Americans'...well I got news for you buddy - McCain isn't exactly 100% behind so-called 'real Americans'.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 9):
Obama doesn't support illegal immigration.

Now on that note, redflag

. How do you figure his immigration policy is any less screwy than McCain's?

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:08 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
How do you figure his immigration policy is any less screwy than McCain's?

I don't. My original post didn't have anything to do with immigration. McCain's campaign doesn't even bother with facts anymore. It's straight hate and divisiveness.

Obama voted for the fence but has since joined Clinton in de-emphasizing his support, which is unpopular in border towns and among Hispanic voters. McCain voted for the fence and has encouraged agreements to allow the government to enter private property to survey land.

Obama supports a guest-worker program with a database of workers, arguing it will improve wages and conditions for all workers. McCain cosponsored the failed Senate bill that proposed a guest-worker program with a registry and a path to legalization for illegal immigrants.

Obama supports giving illegal immigrants a path to legal residency, similar to Clinton’s position. As a principal author of the failed immigration bill, which would have given illegal immigrants a path to citizenship, McCain has struggled to convince conservatives that his plan is not amnesty.

Obama voted for comprehensive immigration reform and has stressed that legalizing workers will boost U.S. wages. McCain, a key player in the immigration reform fight, has moved from pushing the cause of legalization to emphasizing the need for border security first.

Aaron747 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 11):
Obama supports giving illegal immigrants a path to legal residency, similar to Clinton’s position. As a principal author of the failed immigration bill, which would have given illegal immigrants a path to citizenship, McCain has struggled to convince conservatives that his plan is not amnesty.

In other words, they both support amnesty. Unacceptable.

11Bravo · Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:52 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 6):
You stay classy, McCain supporters. Your hate and fear and intolerance will keep you warm through the long, cold winter.

The rhetoric coming from some of these GOP events is truly reprehensible. Although I've been a long-time admirer of John McCain, the late stages of this campaign have severely tarnished his reputation. It's shameful and dishonorable to the very core. The visceral racial hatred, fear mongering, and the outright lies have turned his run for the White House into a national embarrassment. He is bringing out the very worst that America has to offer. I would hope that when this is over, that civilized members of the Republican Party will ask themselves how they came to be aligned with the trailer-trash crowd.

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:05 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
In other words, they both support amnesty. Unacceptable.

There is way too much corporate opposition to the "round 'em up and ship 'em home" approach to this problem. Big business is addicted to that source of cheap labor. Any politician making too much of a stink over that is going to get his or her hand slapped. Amnesty or "legal paths to citizenship" will be the compromise that will have to be made. Nobody except the fringe elements on either side of the aisle will go after that issue with any real exertion. They'll make noise about it to look like they have a tough stance, but most Congress Critters are too beholden to corporate interests to go tilting at that windmill. After all, tax breaks and cheap labor are essential to the fundamentals of the economy. At least, that's what we are told.

On the bright side, the quality of Mexican restaurants in the deep south has improved considerably. Who knew that one day one would be able to get authentic horchata in the land o' cotton?

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:47 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
He is bringing out the very worst that America has to offer. I would hope that when this is over, that civilized members of the Republican Party will ask themselves how they came to be aligned with the trailer-trash crowd.

They've always been aligned with that crowd. We live in the information age now, but in years past we weren't privvy to the kinds of things that go on at these kinds of rallies. We're getting a peak now at how the right energizes their base.

What I can't figure out is why McCain isn't doing a thing to court moderates. Preaching to the converted is a good stroke to the ego, but this race is going to be won in the middle. Moderate, middle-of-the-road voters are going to run away from gruesome displays like that.

I've asked it before, but if John McCain can't manage his own campaign, how can he be trusted to run our country?

Superfly · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:10 pm

For all the McCain apologist, read over this article;

http://kotorimagazine.com/index.php?news=131

voodoo · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:11 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 15):
I've asked it before, but if John McCain can't manage his own campaign, how can he be trusted to run our country?

I liked (in a bad way, for him) the way he tried to do a GWBush on Letterman.
'I screwed up. heheheh'

ha .... ha ....... ha.

Just a regular 'W' guy, yeah? How many houses, cars, and got by as a bum on his Daddy's coat tails?
We've been there, bought the T-shirts.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times?

Its just unbelievable that McMork and Mindy present themselves in public at all any more...it just keeps bleeding their votes.

RJdxer · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:29 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
For all the McCain apologist, read over this article;

For what? To have virtually every McCain cliche repeated for the umpteenth time. Nothing new there, just the same liberal ash and trash they've been dishing out for months. Class warfare, zero tolerance, and political correctness liberal style rolled into one article. And exactly what does any one who supports McCain/Palin have to apologize for? Are you seriously suggesting that any one who does support them is some how Unamerican for doing so? That seems to be the gist of your lead line.

Superfly · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:29 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
For what? To have virtually every McCain cliche............ blah, blah, blah.......

Anyone else?
I'd like to hear a fresh new voice on the McCain side. RJdxer, we all know that McCain can do no wrong in your eyes.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:35 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
Care to speculate as to WHY we're not getting all the information?

Well, if I had to guess I'd say it's politically advantageous to leave some of the "meat" out of the story. You can leave great amounts of material out and still have the resulting article fact check 100%. BTW, I have seen this happening from both parties....sadly.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:50 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 6):
You stay classy, McCain supporters. Your hate and fear and intolerance will keep you warm through the long, cold winter.

If I was able to press Suggest Deletion, this is a perfect post to use it on. You are inferring that all McCain supporters are racists. Grab a tissue and move on down the road.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
"If I'm elected president, I won't spend nearly a trillion dollars more of your money (on new programs). Sen. Obama will. And he can't do that without raising your taxes or digging us further into debt. I'm going to make government live on a budget, just like you do."

Can't disagree there. My issue is that I must vote for one of these guys to get the woman I want in office.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
It's shameful and dishonorable to the very core. The visceral racial hatred, fear mongering, and the outright lies have turned his run for the White House into a national embarrassment.

PUHLEASE......haven't you ever heard of a "provocateur"? A few idiots and the entire republican party are KKKs without the sheets. You know what? It's brain dead Americans that are the national embarrassment. Don't be so anxious to join them.

Mir · Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
No, I am pointing out a few household names that are backing Obama. I am -not- saying the household names are in any other way related....that is a presumption you and many others are making.

Strange that you ignored these household names:

Warren Buffet
Bill Richardson
Bill Clinton
Chuck Hagel

Those are just some of the people who have publicly supported Obama. They come from all walks of life - politicians, religious leaders, academics, private organizations, private individuals, etc. And while you may not agree with some of them, or even many of them, you can agree with the fact that they are decent people. You could have chosen any of them to put on your list. But instead, you chose to list only those who are either dictatorial leaders or fanatics. And then you tried to lump Colin Powell in with them. The message is clear. And that you would try to deny the intent is laughable.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
I presume it was her chartered plane, for state business? Quite a bit different since she more than likely had a medical staff on duty, and the hardware necessary, to observe here.

The American College of Gynecologists doesn't recommend air travel after the 36th week of pregnancy. An airplane is not a delivery room, and should not be used as such if it can be avoided. You can have medical staff there if you want, but it's still not the same as a hospital by a long shot. That applies whether it's a chartered private jet or an airliner. And, as has been mentioned, it was an airliner. One wonders why AS would let her travel, since most airlines don't let pregnant women travel late in their term. If it were my airplane, I certainly wouldn't let someone whose water had already broken fly when there was perfectly good medical care available on the ground. But that's something for AS and the pilot in question to decide, and we know what their decision was.

-Mir

AGM100 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
I'd like to hear a fresh new voice on the McCain side.

No you dont , you want someone to say your right ,,, and now I am voting for Sen Obama .

It is Class warfare period and the same old rehash of the liberal talking points.

Sen McCain at age 22 Flying missions over North Vietnam , Sen Obama at age 22 hanging out as a professional student , doing some drugs and getting educated on the state of his country ... 60's style. Its in his book ,,, he is a classic product of the liberal college scene .. question everything man , question why we question. These people have no core ... they question everything so many times that they end up spinning in circles.

The choice could not be anymore clear ..

Superfly · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:12 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
you want someone to say your right ,,, and now I am voting for Sen Obama .

Not true at all.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
Sen McCain at age 22 Flying missions over North Vietnam , Sen Obama at age 22 hanging out as a professional student , doing some drugs

What was Dubya doing at 22?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
question everything man

Asking question?
Oh God forbid. Wow!

People should just take orders and do as their politicians and preachers tell them. Yep that is really the American way. Yeah sure

Anyhow, this election is not about where the two candidates were when they were 22 years old. No one is taking away John McCain's service and sacrifice for his country. John McCain's service 35 years ago is noted and appreciated. John McCain the politician on the other hand......How about talking about the future and not rehashing irrelevant non-sense from 30+ years ago?

Charles79 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:16 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
Curious wording from McCain, since fact check after fact check would suggest that his tax plan and continued bailout support will also leave Americans saddled with incredible debt and deficits, only slightly less so than Obama. Both of these guys are spouting off pie in the sky crap and THEY STILL WON'T LEVEL WITH THE PEOPLE about it. Pathetic.

Unfortunately the cheerleaders on either side keep apologizing for their heroes and ignoring this. And as you point out, both favor some sort of amnesty for illegal immigrants (which might be the only option at the end but we can still enforce the laws we have now).

Campaigning in this country has gone down to personal attacks, spinning lies, and covering dirty laundry. Both sides are guilty of it. Neither candidate has been honest about how they intend to reconcile the national debt with their aspirations and programs. Instead the right calls Obama socialist, terrorist, elitist while the left calls McCain old, senile, and McBush. Then we have loonies still claiming that Palin wasn't pregnant (I mean, does that make sense, why would a woman fake a pregnancy?) and right wing nut jobs using Obama's middle name as a tasteless joke.

Funny thing is that when it comes to the issues I care about (and I'm sure not alone) like health care, the economy, education, foreign policy, war on terror, war in Iraq, national debt, national defense, etc, all we get are glossy pre-fabricated statements about how they'll make everything right, though they just won't tell you how they plan to do it (or with what money!). I wish I could have been this vague on my job interviews.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:20 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
Strange that you ignored these household names:

Warren Buffet
Bill Richardson
Bill Clinton
Chuck Hagel

No, it's not strange at all (to me). I intentionally left them out to make a point. I wanted to gauge the response to a 100% factual list that misrepresented the group of Obama supporters as a whole. Rather than simply dismissing me and my lopsided list, I was thoroughly word raped for it, even after completely explaining myself.

It's appears to me that a vast majority of salivating support for Obama is irrational. Everyone loves him but no one can point to a good reason why.

Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
The American College of Gynecologists doesn't recommend air travel after the 36th week of pregnancy. An airplane is not a delivery room, and should not be used as such if it can be avoided. You can have medical staff there if you want, but it's still not the same as a hospital by a long shot. That applies whether it's a chartered private jet or an airliner. And, as has been mentioned, it was an airliner. One wonders why AS would let her travel, since most airlines don't let pregnant women travel late in their term. If it were my airplane, I certainly wouldn't let someone whose water had already broken fly when there was perfectly good medical care available on the ground. But that's something for AS and the pilot in question to decide, and we know what their decision was.

What are you driving at here Mir? That the baby belongs to Bristol?

Ohhhh, in open defiance of the American College of Gynecologists.....a woman out for my heart. Go get 'em Sarah!!!!! Big grin

DocLightning · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:23 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
I presume it was her chartered plane, for state business? Quite a bit different since she more than likely had a medical staff on duty, and the hardware necessary, to observe here.

You mean they had an on-board obstretic operating room to take her to in case she needed a crash C-section? Did it have an on-board ICU and a bunch of units of crossmatched blood to give her in case she hemorrhaged? Antibiotics in case she got chorioamnionitis? She was ruptured a long time, big risk for chorio.

Before modern medicine, 30% of women would die in childbirth. We don't think about this because modern medicine has reduced that rate to less than 1%, but you DON'T want to just cavalierly give birth on a plane.

In addition, in any pregnancy where there is a fetal anomaly (like Down's) that pregnancy is automatically classified as "high risk." As many as 50% of Down's babies have some degree of congenital heart disease (usually just a small septal defect, but they can be very major defects) and sometimes these babies require immediate transfer to a NICU and sometimes urgent cardiac surgical consult.

Did the plane she flew aboard also have a general operating room and a NICU bed aboard?

Sorry, but the doctor in Alaska made a MAJOR error in judgement and is very lucky that the baby wasn't born blue, floppy, and 30,000 feet in the air. And Ms. Palin made a major error in judgement by not simply going to the hospital in Dallas and having her baby there. There is no reason why the baby needs to be born in Alaska. She can call enough favors to have some family members brought down to lend her support and then to get flown back as soon as she and baby are ready for discharge.

AirCop · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:45 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
Sen McCain at age 22 Flying missions over North Vietnam

Just to point out an error AGM, nothing personal, but our Senator was 31 years of age when he was flying over North Vietnam..He graduated from the Naval Academy at 22. Your point is taken.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
I presume it was her chartered plane, for state business?

The only plane (jet) that the State of Alaska, that could fly that could fly that distance and mission, the Gov attempted to sell on e-bay. No she flew CO and AS. And a the time of the birth, the F/A's working the flight to ANC, stated she did not appear to be in any distress.

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:48 pm

Doc, [shakes head], I don't know what to say (other than I have to go back to work).

Enough of this (and you know what I am talking about). Humans have been having babies far longer than doctors and machines have been around. Let us not make more of medicine than it really is (an option).

She's a wealthy Alaskan, she's the governor, she had -plenty- of medical knowledge on hand if needed. She wasn't a scared and nervous 18 year old girl running away from home.

DocLightning · Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:03 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 28):

Enough of this (and you know what I am talking about). Humans have been having babies far longer than doctors and machines have been around. Let us not make more of medicine than it really is (an option).

No it is not. Not when a child is involved and it is a high-risk delivery. With a Down's baby and a prolonged rupture of membranes, the risk of complications is over 50%. 50% ALONE for a congenital heart defect in all Trisomy-21. Plus the standard risks of childbirth.

Ms. Palin was very lucky. Had that baby been born at altitude with a serious congenital heart defect, the baby could have died. The low PO2 in the air of an airliner would only make it happen faster in most cases. And modern law holds that if the mother could have been reasonably expected to seek medical care (and she had multiple opportunities) that the mother would be guilty of medical neglect and possibly negligent homocide.

I'm all for home birth in standard-risk environments with someone around who knows a thing or two about when to call 911 (a Doola or a midwife). But I am *not* for a birth aboard a plane.

And if medicine is an option, air travel is far more so.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 29):
No she flew CO and AS. And a the time of the birth, the F/A's working the flight to ANC, stated she did not appear to be in any distress.

And didn't tell the crew that her water had broken. Because she knew the crew would have better judgement than she did.

AGM100 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
What was Dubya doing at 22?

Drinking , Partying and chasing chicks ! I love it ! Just what most people do when their 22... not reading Lennon and Carl and trying to figure out how there country is just so evil and bad.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
People should just take orders and do as their politicians and preachers tell them.

Total liberal thinking .... Some of us dont need anyone to tell us what our core value is. Low tax , small government , self reliance , and the will to build , create , employ , make money , get rich and make the next generation better.

But take hope , even if America tries the socialist path . Keep faith that there will always be many of us out here... trying to create jobs , make money , employing people and building wealth. Not employing people because we feel sorry for them ... employing people because we have too... to get RICH .... Filthy stinking Rich baby !! thats what I am talking about. Wooohah Rich Rich Rich ! And you live in a country where anyone can do it ! If I can, anyone can . Lets go America !, the best way to help the poor is too create jobs and wealth at our level ... not expect the government to hand it out to you ! Come on ! Think about it .!

If Sen Obama wins ... he will be my President . I will continue to be a good American , I will try everything to succeed and to make my community better. I will still give to charity , and volunteer and do all the things that I can to improve my family. I will support him if he sends our troops into battle , I will not turn my back on them. I may not agree with everything he does , but I will work hard to support him. Knowing that as president he knows things about the world situation that I do not. If Sen Obama becomes President I must respect the will of the electorate that put him there. This is what it means to be an American to me ... not the display we have seen from the left wing over the past 4 years. He better live up to the trust and reverence some of us still have for the office of the Presidency .

DocLightning · Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):

Total liberal thinking ....

He was joking.

mbmbos · Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:44 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
...not reading Lennon and Carl...

John Lennon and Carl Sandburg?

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
He was joking.

Irony is such an elitist concept.

StuckInCA · Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:36 pm

Every day the real motivations for the Republican cries of "voter fraud" are exposed a bit further.

A lawyer for Republicans in New Mexico is "deeply involved in the state party's effort to make an issue out of voter fraud -- despite essentially no evidence that such fraud is occurring."

Well, in a 2004 email - - when he was up to the same tricks, here's what he had to say:

I believe the [voter] ID issue should be used (now) at all levels - federal, state legislative races and Heather [Wilson]'s race ... You are not going to find a better wedge issue ... I've got to believe the [voter] ID issue would do Heather more good than another ad talking about how much federal taxpayer money she has put into the (state) education system and social security ... This is the single best wedge issue, ever in NM. We will not have this opportunity again ... Today, we expect to file a new Public Records lawsuit, by 3 Republican legislators, demanding the Bernalillo county clerk locate and produce (before Oct 15) ALL of the registrations signed by the ACORN employee.

my emphasis.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...nm_gop_lawyer_pushing_voter_fr.php

AirCop · Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:41 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 36):
Every day the real motivations for the Republican cries of "voter fraud" are exposed a bit further.

Looks like the Republicans got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story

AirportSeven · Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:53 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 35):
John Lennon and Carl Sandburg?

AGM100 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:06 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud.

I am one republican that does not mind this at all... if he broke the law .. lock him up and throw the key. If the party promoted this , then lets hope they find out who , when and where. Not even a question about it , none of us should try to defend fraud . Clean it up and clear it out, I would rather lose a election honestly than win dishonestly..!!

Now if you posted this to deflect blame of ACORN then hold on. Dont forget ACORN also had the power of the government lending vehicles to grease the proper wheels... that is one toxic combination . ACORN is not only a left wing political action organization , they also are giving out home loans and handled millions and millions of dollars for the FM's . Dont forget the Dems had 120 billion for ACORN (and associates) in the first $700 billion bail out bill. To me it just has all the makings of a bad situation .

Dreadnought · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:18 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
The rhetoric coming from some of these GOP events is truly reprehensible. Although I've been a long-time admirer of John McCain, the late stages of this campaign have severely tarnished his reputation. It's shameful and dishonorable to the very core. The visceral racial hatred, fear mongering, and the outright lies have turned his run for the White House into a national embarrassment.

Especially for the people who made the accusations. Like that famous incident of someone saying "Kill Him" at the mention of Obama's name, that of course the press repeated ad-infinitum? Never happened according to the Secret Service, who would definately be on the lookout for anything like that (kill who, McCain?).

http://www.timesleader.com/news/brea...ill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html

Only one guy "heard" it, and he was a reporter. Embarassing is the word when a reporter seeks to make news than simply report it.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
Couldn't agree more, MD. Care to speculate as to WHY we're not getting all the information?

Because maybe it's none of your damned business what goes no between her legs?

Was anything illegal? No? So lay off.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 15):
What I can't figure out is why McCain isn't doing a thing to court moderates.

That's the problem - he has been. Notice how his one big bump up in the polls was when he moved sharply to the right - the Palin choice. Since then, and since Palin's restricted accessability, his poll numbers are in trouble.

Superfly · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:22 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
not reading Lennon and Carl and trying to figure out how there country is just so evil and bad.

Nether was Obama.
Even if he did, so what? That is not what Obama is about today or tomorrow.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Some of us dont need anyone to tell us what our core value is.

Only the Bible-thumpers do that. Sarah Palin being one of them.

StuckInCA · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:28 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Was anything illegal? No? So lay off.

Does that apply to all situational analysis of candidates?

It seems reasonable to point out that either her judgment is horrible or she's lying.

If that's the sort of judgment she applies to childbirth then I really would question her ability to make important decisions in stressful situations.

Dreadnought · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:30 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 42):
It seems reasonable to point out that either her judgment is horrible or she's lying.

Have you had a baby yourself? This was her fifth. She knew what she was doing. Maybe she was a little cavalier, but so what? A friend of mine gave birth at home, alone, with no midwife or anything. Call her nuts if you like, but she's a hell of a tough woman.

You are just making a fool of yourself with this argument.

StuckInCA · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:41 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 43):
This was her fifth. She knew what she was doing.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure if the baby had come out in poor shape while airborne she'd have been able to care for it just fine. No woman knows exactly how much time they have until the baby is coming out. Not on the first baby, not on the fifth.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 43):
You are just making a fool of yourself with this argument.

I don't care if my questioning that set of Palin's decisions causes you to think I'm a fool.

Ask any medical professional if what she did is acceptable or shows good judgment.

RJdxer · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:50 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
RJdxer, we all know that McCain can do no wrong in your eyes.

Well that's incorrect as a reading of the threads would note.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
What was Dubya doing at 22?

I wonder how many election cycles the democratic party will feel they can run against President Bush? They call for change and yet do nothing but refer to the past.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
People should just take orders and do as their politicians and preachers tell them.

Yet another cliche'. You sure are full of them today Fly. Any substance or are you seving nothing but snacks tonite?

mt99 · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:52 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):

I wonder how many election cycles the democratic party will feel they can run against President Bush? They call for change and yet do nothing but refer to the past.

Wasn't that a republican favorite past time.. bringing up Clinton's bj?

Superfly · Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:59 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
I wonder how many election cycles the democratic party will feel they can run against President Bush?

Expect this to contiue as long as the GOP is running on continuing Bush's agenda. McCain is an extension of Bush. The few things McCain disagrees with Bush is very small. McCain in his own words has voted with Bush 90% of the time.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
Any substance or are you seving nothing but snacks tonite?

Just little snacks for the pigeons that will follow McCain every step of the way. Smile

DocLightning · Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:10 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Some of us dont need anyone to tell us what our core value is.

Really? Then why does the GOP platform include such policies as:
1) "Intelligent Design."
2) Limit to abortion access/overturning Roe v. Wade
3) Limit to family planning access
4) Abstinence-only education mandated in schools
5) Banning gay marriage
6) Blocking attempts to add sexual orientation to the list of classes protected by anti-discrimination law

Seems like someone is trying to preach values to me. And I'm a grown man. I don't need that anymore.

AirCop · Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:14 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
Now if you posted this to deflect blame of ACORN then hold on

Nah, I posted this just to show possible illegal doings are happening on both sides.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
I wonder how many election cycles the democratic party will feel they can run against President Bush?

Republicans have been running against Bill Clinton since the day after the election in November of 1992.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
Well that's incorrect as a reading of the threads would note.

You're kidding..

md80fanatic · Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:17 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 31):
Why aren't you able to suggest deletions?

I can physically press the button, but philosophically cannot. If I censor, I can expect to be censored.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
I am one republican that does not mind this at all... if he broke the law .. lock him up and throw the key. If the party promoted this , then lets hope they find out who , when and where. Not even a question about it , none of us should try to defend fraud . Clean it up and clear it out, I would rather lose a election honestly than win dishonestly..!!

Agreed, if anyone is tampering with our system, it needs to be punished to the maximum extent.
------------------------------------------

I just find it highly ironic that abortion proponents are lecturing a abortion opponent (and governor of one of our 50 states) about how to reduce the chances of problems during childbirth.

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