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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:12 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 203):
What does this have to do with anything?

I could respond with an explative. This has everything to do with out-of-control growth of government that must be stopped.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 203):
Are you suggesting that we're going to see a bull market on extraordinary renditions, detainment without criminal charges, wiretaps of US citizens without warrents, and dismissal (and supression) of scientific opinion if it diminishes a party platform?

I'm talking about tax and spend programs, you silly person. You are deflecting the discussion to irrelevancies and inaccuracies.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:33 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
This has everything to do with out-of-control growth of government that must be stopped.

And you think McCain is the man to do that?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
I'm talking about tax and spend programs

Or, in the case of recent Republicans, tax cut and spend.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
You are deflecting the discussion to irrelevancies and inaccuracies.

You can argue it's irrelevant (and I can disagree), but what is innacurate?
 
NAV20
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:48 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 177):
I have to ask....explain Winston Churchill or did the King abdicate war powers to him?

In Commonwealth countries the king (or queen, or governor-general) is the head of state, and therefore has the power to 'hire and fire' the prime minister. The prime minister of Australia was dismissed by the governor-general in 1975.

As far as the armed forces are concerned, the prime minister can only 'request' them to do things, not give them direct orders. During WW2 there were plenty of occasions when the chiefs of staff refused to carry out some of Churchill's wilder schemes because they were either too risky or premature. The classic case was the cross-channel invasion in WW2. Roosevelt initially wanted it in 1942, Churchill wanted it in 1943, the chiefs of staff said it couldn't be done until 1944.

Personally I think that it's a good system. The prime minister, not being the head of state as well, can be dismissed by parliament at any time if he/she loses a vote of confidence; or fired at any time by the head of state (who doesn't have to give reasons).

That has the effect of keeping political 'messes' short and sharp. In a Commonwealth country Nixon wouldn't have been able to 'spin out' Watergate for years - he'd have been fired. Same thing would probably have happened to Clinton after the Lewinsky thing.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:10 am



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 191):
not the least because Obama is actually a very religious person.

I actually am not so sure if he is. I get the sense that he is not. I think that's one of the few things he does that's a show, and I find that sad that someone should feel it necessary to do that.

Especially, according to the Constitution of the United States of America, a document written over 200 years ago,

Quote:
no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

It is an important clause and I question the patriotism of anybody who dares subvert it.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:20 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 201):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
This has everything to do with out-of-control growth of government that must be stopped.

And you think McCain is the man to do that?

We know that McCain has a longstanding position against wasteful spending and programs. He can be expected to bitch loudly when congress sends him pork-ladden bills and has promised to veto them. He has tapped Sarah Palin with the job of re-engineering the executive branch, which will be a huge job but very, very desirable. She seems to relish the challenge, it's right up her alley, and you can expect major shock waves within the washington bureaucratic machine.

Have you ever seen "Yes, Minister"?

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 201):
Or, in the case of recent Republicans, tax cut and spend.

You are absolutely right, and I am livid about it. I feel that a couple of years in the political wilderness, minority in both houses and a democratic white house, will do Republicans a wold of good, and reawaken their conservative values, just as happened in 1992-94, leading to a new Contract With America in 2010. In normal times, I'd be tempted to vote Democrat this year just to help whip the Republicans back into line.

But, as I said in another thread, "This is not your father's Democratic Party". Obama is far more of a leftist than he wants people to believe, and Pelosi and Ried ar similarly hard left. They will do a lot of damage in two years.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 201):
You can argue it's irrelevant (and I can disagree), but what is innacurate?

Name a U.S. citizen who has been detained without a warrant. The Left is based on the suppression of evidence that global warming is other than man-made. Name a U.S. citizen who has had his phone tapped without appropriate oversight.

But it is irrelevant because the most important thing in this election, and what I was specifically talking about, is the federal budget which is out of control, and things like rendition mean nothing to the budget.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 203):
Quote:
no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

It is an important clause and I question the patriotism of anybody who dares subvert it.

I agree whole-heartedly.
 
Charles79
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:11 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 196):

I have seen no evidence of this.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 203):
I actually am not so sure if he is. I get the sense that he is not. I think that's one of the few things he does that's a show, and I find that sad that someone should feel it necessary to do that.

Er...guys, I was actually quoting the FOX News reporter, sorry I didn't make it clear in my post.

I personally dislike the fact that Obama was part of a radical church for 20 years and only distanced himself from it when it became apparent that it would be a drag on his campaign. I'm still not convinced that he was absent every single time that his church had a controversial (to put it mildly) sermon. Besides, after going to the same church for 20 years you must agree with at least the basic principles that they preach. I apologize if I sound too harsh but having been burned by a similar church that preached hate from the pulpit I'm skeptical about candidates who appear to be too religious.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 196):
I think it's worth every scare tactic available - especially since I feel they are factually accurate.

I guess my concern with it is that, having watched several of McCain's rallies recently, it seems like he's spending more time talking about Obama's plan and criticizing it than talking about his own plan. Make no mistake, neither candidate has (on paper) an economic plan that will balance our budget. McCain's seems to be closer to a balance than Obama's...why not talk about it then? I acknowledge the need to discount your opponent's ideas but if that's the only thing you are doing then it lends the campaign a negative tone, and that's when you loose independent voters like myself.

On the flip side, Palin has started to talk a bit more about her party's platform than her opponent's, and usually her crowds react much better to it.

Now I wish I could talk about Obama's campaign style but every time I watch his rallies I get distracted by a unicorn that roams about in a field in the background, a mermaid sitting by a pond, a beautiful rainbow across the sky and people gathered around a campfire singing "Cumbaya". It gives you a fuzzy feeling inside! (Sarcasm off).
 
767Lover
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 203):
Quoting Charles79 (Reply 191):
not the least because Obama is actually a very religious person.

I actually am not so sure if he is. I get the sense that he is not. I think that's one of the few things he does that's a show, and I find that sad that someone should feel it necessary to do that.

You get the sense he's not? It's time to learn more about your candidate. (Not that any of this makes him unworthy, I'm just saying you don't know your candidate very well.) Obama speaks about his faith pretty extensively in his own web site. (www.barackobama.com)

The first paragraph of "about barack":
"He joined a small law firm, taught constitutional law and, guided by his Christian faith, stayed active in his community."

From the "faith" section, under "Barack's Faith Principles"

Key values in Barack Obama’s public statements on faith and politics
• God is constantly present in our lives, and this presence is a source of hope.

* Our failure as progressives to tap into the moral underpinnings of the nation is not just rhetorical, though. Our fear of getting “preachy” may also lead us to discount the role that values and culture play in addressing some of our most urgent social problems.” - The Audacity of Hope.

Faith is a source of action for justice.

“Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address without reference to "the judgments of the Lord." Or King's I Have a Dream speech without references to "all of God's children." Their summoning of a higher truth helped inspire what had seemed impossible, and move the nation to embrace a common destiny.” – Call to Renewal Keynote Address

“We should never forget that God granted us the power to reason so that we would do His work here on Earth - so that we would use science to cure disease, and heal the sick, and save lives.” – World AIDS Day Speech: Race Against Time

And from his Call to Renewal address (also on the web site)

But Mr. Keyes's implicit accusation that I was not a true Christian nagged at me, and I was also aware that my answer did not adequately address the role my faith has in guiding my own values and my own beliefs.

I think we make a mistake when we fail to acknowledge the power of faith in people's lives -- in the lives of the American people --


But as the months passed in Chicago, I found myself drawn - not just to work with the church, but to be in the church.

You need to come to church in the first place precisely because you are first of this world, not apart from it. You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away - because you are human and need an ally in this difficult journey.

It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street in the Southside of Chicago one day and affirm my Christian faith. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth.

(This little gem might interest you) More fundamentally, the discomfort of some progressives with any hint of religion has often prevented us from effectively addressing issues in moral terms. Some of the problem here is rhetorical - if we scrub language of all religious content, we forfeit the imagery and terminology through which millions of Americans understand both their personal morality and social justice.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE...

But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

There's a lot more, but I got tired of cutting and pasting.

[Edited 2008-10-29 06:30:08]
 
AirportSeven
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 196):
Yes. He's a Washington insider. Ergo, he's a crook.

John McCain is a Washington insider. Ergo, he's a crook. Painting with a wide brush is fun!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
He can be expected to bitch loudly when congress sends him pork-ladden bills and has promised to veto them. He has tapped Sarah Palin with the job of re-engineering the executive branch, which will be a huge job but very, very desirable. She seems to relish the challenge, it's right up her alley, and you can expect major shock waves within the washington bureaucratic machine.

Ha ha. As if McCain has a chance left at winning this election. If, by some miracle of massive fraud perpetuated by Diebold and the RNC he should win, Palin is going to be relegated to doing PR grip and grins in the Arctic Circle for going all mavricky in the last few weeks.
 
AirCop
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
He has tapped Sarah Palin with the job of re-engineering the executive branch, which will be a huge job but very, very desirable. She seems to relish the challenge, it's right up her alley, and you can expect major shock waves within the washington bureaucratic machine.

Have you been drinking kool-aid this morning? The Governor is plays the old-style back room politics just like the rest of them.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:13 pm



Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 207):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 196):
Yes. He's a Washington insider. Ergo, he's a crook.

John McCain is a Washington insider. Ergo, he's a crook. Painting with a wide brush is fun!

There are 3 classes of "Official" Washington.

1. Elected officials. They can be booted by the people at whim.

2. Political Nominees. Their fates are dependant on the elected officials that placed them

3. Lobbyists and bureaucrats. They are not answerable to the people, but to corporations, special interest groups, and to government employee's unions and the good ol' bureacratic brown-nose.

I have very low esteem for politicians for their "Love Me" complex (they were all bottle-babies), but at least they are to some extent answerable. The third class is like AIDS. You never can get rid of them and they just eat away at you from the inside. And like AIDS, you can minimize your exposure to them by not delving in risky behaviour, like voting for people who want to increase government involvement in your personal life.
 
767Lover
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:29 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 209):
3. Lobbyists and bureaucrats. They are not answerable to the people, but to corporations, special interest groups, and to government employee's unions and the good ol' bureacratic brown-nose.

Well, there are some lobbyists working on behalf of "the people," such as those lobbying for increased funding for Alzheimer's research, or education. You can't paint all lobbying groups with the same brush.
 
EA772LR
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:52 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 95):
Why else did he pick her, if not to attract a female vote (and some hornball men)? Her vast foreign policy experience? Her years of being an insider in D.C.? Her spectacular knowledge of national policy?

And I half way thought you were talking about Obama...all of his foreign policy experience, he truly is a D.C. insider, and his spectacular knowledge of domestic policy... rotfl  You've got to be joking right? The only reason Obama picked Biden was for experience. Why else would you pick a VP that has many times led a horrendous presidential campaign bid???
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:07 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 183):
but this one wasn't;

And that was not a threat on his life. She was right to ignore that person. Why give someone like that any time of day.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 194):
It s a BIG difference when yelling out kill him! Granted McCain and Palin never actually said those words though there lack of speaking up speaks even more volume.

They never spoke up on that issue because as the Secret Service has reported, it never happened.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 194):
There is a big difference in calling someone old and youthless. Sure it is not "nice" yet when was politics ever nice.

You say it's not nice to call them names, yet you have continued to do that all through all 7 of these threads. What does that say about you? You expect the other side to cooperate and yet get upset when they don't, after you have spent all this time and energy being intentionally mean? I could predict that outcome. As stated, liberals and democratic party members feel free to dish it out, but if it comes back they are the first to throw a temper tantrum. In this case the charge has almost always been that the other side is being racist. Only now in the past 2 weeks has that charge turned to "they're just desperate", even though the race is still statistically tight.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 195):
That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

Define paying somewhat more. He didn't.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 195):
"we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."

Which is the way it should be if those resources are located on State owned land which has been shown that they are. That is not socialism.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 197):
Spin it any way you like. I really don't see how you get the idea that Obama is simply going to take your money and hand it to poor people so they can go buy big screen TV's.

If someone is not paying any taxes, and gets a bigger refund due to the earned income deduction being raised, while the wealthy person is taxed at a higher rate with fewer deductions available to him, what do you call that? If not redistribution via the tax system what is it?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 202):
That has the effect of keeping political 'messes' short and sharp.

In this country it would result in constant turmoil and nothing being accomplished as the minority party would look for every excuse to call for a vote of no confidence. Since we don't have a monarch that would be the only way we could change governments. It would lead to us leading the life of changing governments like we change underwear. Not a good system for our people.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 210):
Well, there are some lobbyists working on behalf of "the people," such as those lobbying for increased funding for Alzheimer's research, or education. You can't paint all lobbying groups with the same brush.

While we might agree or disagree on any particular issue, I would argue that, most likely, lobbyists working for Alzheimers are being paid by people who stand to financially benefit from federal research grants, such as universities and other researchers, and education lobbyists by teachers unions who are intereted in swelling the payroll of dues-paying teachers.

I can't think of any lobbyists who are not representing people who are in it for the money. They might exist, but I can't think of any.

Correction, some might be in it for moral or ideology reasons, such as abortion.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:25 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 212):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 194):
It s a BIG difference when yelling out kill him! Granted McCain and Palin never actually said those words though there lack of speaking up speaks even more volume.

They never spoke up on that issue because as the Secret Service has reported, it never happened.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 194):
There is a big difference in calling someone old and youthless. Sure it is not "nice" yet when was politics ever nice.

You say it's not nice to call them names, yet you have continued to do that all through all 7 of these threads. What does that say about you? You expect the other side to cooperate and yet get upset when they don't, after you have spent all this time and energy being intentionally mean? I could predict that outcome. As stated, liberals and democratic party members feel free to dish it out, but if it comes back they are the first to throw a temper tantrum. In this case the charge has almost always been that the other side is being racist. Only now in the past 2 weeks has that charge turned to "they're just desperate", even though the race is still statistically tight.

What about the rally in PA when the McCain supporter brought the stuffed monkey wearing an Obama hat and that was allowed. It is on youtube.com if you want I'll provide the link or you can do a search of McCain monkey rally.

Last I looked there was no congeniality award though if I'm wrong let me know I am always up for a challenge.

And yes your side is desperate the polls show it, right now McCain might not even carry his home state of AZ. And being in Ohio I have been front and center in this race as no Republican has ever won the election without carrying Ohio and it looks like right now McCain is not going to carry Ohio.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:39 pm

Good article on the Republican party and Palin. Makes some good points and is a good read.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:46 pm

 
StuckInCA
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
Name a U.S. citizen who has been detained without a warrant

I didn't specify US citizen when I brought up detainment. I don't think that you should have to be a US citizen to have to be charged with something in order to be detained indefinitely, do you?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
The Left is based on the suppression of evidence that global warming is other than man-made

It's not just global warming. Bush and his pals have a pretty clear history of distorting science or simply suppressing it.

The Bush administration has distorted scientific fact leading to policy decisions on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry, a group of about 60 scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, said in a statement on Wednesday.

...

...the Bush administration of distorting and suppressing findings that contradict administration policies, stacking panels with like-minded and underqualified scientists with ties to industry, and eliminating some advisory committees altogether.


http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/02/62339

I could come up with more articles, but it's really not worth arguing.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
Name a U.S. citizen who has had his phone tapped without appropriate oversight.

What do you consider appropriate oversight? I'd say having an actual reason to suspect criminal activity is a good place to start. The government disagrees.

...new guidelines would allow the F.B.I. to open an investigation of an American, conduct surveillance, pry into private records and take other investigative steps “without any basis for suspicion.” The plan “might permit an innocent American to be subjected to such intrusive surveillance based in part on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, or on protected First Amendment activities,”

Of course, the FBI says there's "nothing to see here."

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 204):
But it is irrelevant because the most important thing in this election, and what I was specifically talking about, is the federal budget which is out of control, and things like rendition mean nothing to the budget.

I'd say the economy is key. The budget is only a part of that. That said, just because you have a top priority doesn't mean all of the other stuff goes away.

Even if all of the doomsday chatter from the right turns out to be true (and I give that almost no chance of being the case), I'd choose that over the kind of long term damage the Republicans have been doing for the last 8 years.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:59 pm

New ad running, speaks volume though not much is said.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...nk/bcpid1185304443/bctid1885474357
 
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Aaron747
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:07 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 211):
You've got to be joking right? The only reason Obama picked Biden was for experience. Why else would you pick a VP that has many times led a horrendous presidential campaign bid???

Whatever the reason Palin was picked, it was a mistake, period. I dare say it will be one of the primary reasons McCain failed if he loses the election. Had he picked someone with personal business experience and economic knowledge, like Romney, the current crisis would have played right into their hands. Instead McCain was left fumbling with a running mate who knows less than he does:

McCain’s appeal was always that he could think for himself, but as the campaign has progressed, he has seemed simply erratic and hotheaded. His choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate was highly irresponsible; we have suffered under the current president who entered office without much knowledge of the world and was easily captured by the wrong advisers.

Yet another ex-neocon who will be voting for Obama.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/03/00020/
 
santosdumont
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:09 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 180):
But dare to suggest that calling a United States Senator a geezer, or a sitting Governor "gidget", calling a sitting President a "chimp" to name just a few derogatory names in recent past used by democratic party members and liberals as hateful and oh how the crying and whining begins.

I wouldn't describe those words ("geezer" and "gidget") as particularly hateful; calling a Senator a "cocksucker" or a sitting president a "prick" is hateful. Why would the McCain camp even waste its time responding to someone who uses the former two terms, which -- if meant to rile somebody up -- are flaccid at best?

Now, publicly calling the president a "chimp" is certainly disrespectful.

By RJ's yardstick, calling the president a "scumbag"-- like Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN) did in 1998, or telling a Senator to either "fuck off" or "go fuck yourself" (depending on which source you believe) -- like Dick Cheney did to Patrick Leahy (D-VT) in 2004 is presumably just as hateful, if not more so, than using relatively innocuous terms like "geezer" and "gidget".

Certainly, the epithets that fly behind closed doors in Washington are much nastier than people imagine.
 
RJdxer
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:49 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 214):
What about the rally in PA when the McCain supporter brought the stuffed monkey wearing an Obama hat and that was allowed.

And the Obama supporter wearing the shirt that said "Palin is a c--t"? Of course no one anywhere has ever tried to tie the current President to a chimpanzee have they? My point is not that it happens but that when it does the liberals and democratic party members are the first to whine and cry about it and when the tables are turned they complain that it's just politics, much as you have done here.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 214):
Last I looked there was no congeniality award though if I'm wrong let me know I am always up for a challenge.

My point is proven, thanks.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 219):
or telling a Senator to either "fuck off" or "go fuck yourself" (depending on which source you believe) -- like Dick Cheney did to Patrick Leahy (D-VT) in 2004 is presumably just as hateful

What happens in private does not equate to what is published or done in public.
 
santosdumont
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:00 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 221):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 219):
or telling a Senator to either "fuck off" or "go fuck yourself" (depending on which source you believe) -- like Dick Cheney did to Patrick Leahy (D-VT) in 2004 is presumably just as hateful

What happens in private does not equate to what is published or done in public.

It wasn't private. It was the 2004 Senate class photo.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:14 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 211):
And I half way thought you were talking about Obama...all of his foreign policy experience, he truly is a D.C. insider, and his spectacular knowledge of domestic policy... rotfl You've got to be joking right? The only reason Obama picked Biden was for experience. Why else would you pick a VP that has many times led a horrendous presidential campaign bid???

Other than Canada, has Sarah Palin ever left the U.S.? I don't think so. Do you know the first time she ever met Joe Biden? At their first debate.

As for Obama picking Biden only for his experience, I disagree. I agree that experience was part of the decision, but I think he wanted someone who was more conservative than he was to balance him out. If all he'd wanted was more experience, he could have gone for Hillary. I still wish he had.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:23 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 223):
Other than Canada, has Sarah Palin ever left the U.S.? I don't think so. Do you know the first time she ever met Joe Biden? At their first debate.

Do did go visit the Alaska National Guard somewhere in the Middle East, though you are right she did only get her first passport in 2006-2007 not exactly sure the year.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 221):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 214):
What about the rally in PA when the McCain supporter brought the stuffed monkey wearing an Obama hat and that was allowed.

And the Obama supporter wearing the shirt that said "Palin is a c--t"? Of course no one anywhere has ever tried to tie the current President to a chimpanzee have they? My point is not that it happens but that when it does the liberals and democratic party members are the first to whine and cry about it and when the tables are turned they complain that it's just politics, much as you have done here.

How do we get off this merry go round, you always deflect the question by bringing up something the other party did. So basically no one is guilt free they are all evil and corrupt. I never saw the shirt you mention, maybe it sad Palin has a c--t? Though silly to wear a shirt that points out the obvious.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 221):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 214):
Last I looked there was no congeniality award though if I'm wrong let me know I am always up for a challenge.

My point is proven, thanks.

Well I have not been banned so far so I must not be upsetting to many people or I would have been dealt with. I hope when it is all done and said with that the best person for the job wins this election.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:42 pm

Here is a good article from the BBC website that explaing the feelings on why McCain is losing the election.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7698239.stm
 
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DocLightning
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:44 pm

Mods, can we close this thread and start a new one? It's getting so long I'm having display issues with it.
 
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casinterest
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:22 pm

Ok all,
Think Obama's Wealth Redistribution plan is shocking to McCain?

Take a look at McCain's views from 2000?

McCain oppsoded bush's tax cuts, and listen to the explanations


who do you really trust on the economy?
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 222):
It wasn't private. It was the 2004 Senate class photo.

It was supposedly said in the Senate cloakroom which is off limits to virtually everyone except guess who. That is why there is no accurate report of exactly what was said in the exchange. That is completely different than a supporter in an open forum saying the same thing or a candidate doing the same.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 227):
Mods, can we close this thread and start a new one? It's getting so long I'm having display issues with it.

Buy a real computer or get a better connection. Or you could just wait a few months and maybe the government will provide you with both.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 229):
Or you could just wait a few months and maybe the government will provide you with both.

They already handed me $1500 in "stimulus" that I didn't need this year. I suppose that was socialism too?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:47 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 230):
They already handed me $1500 in "stimulus" that I didn't need this year. I suppose that was socialism too?

LOL!  Silly
I wonder if Joe The Plumber got any stimulus money considering he is a tax evader. Those who owe didn't get any stimulus cash.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 230):
They already handed me $1500 in "stimulus" that I didn't need this year. I suppose that was socialism too?

Nope, nobodies taxes were raised to provide for it. That's just more borrowed cash.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:01 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 232):
That's just more borrowed cash.

Spend, then tax?
That's irresponsible socialism.
Tax & spend is a smarter form of socialism.  Wink
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:15 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 233):
Spend, then tax?
That's irresponsible socialism.

I agree it's irresponsible, but it's not socialism, unless of course we agree we are taking from the Chinese and resdistributing it.  boggled 
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 232):
Nope, nobodies taxes were raised to provide for it. That's just more borrowed cash.

So who's taxes will be raised so that Doc can get a better internet connection then?

Do you consider not extending tax cuts which are not permanent the same as raising taxes?

Won't somebody's taxes have to be raised someday to pay for those "stimulus" checks?
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:20 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 229):
It was supposedly said in the Senate cloakroom which is off limits to virtually everyone except guess who. That is why there is no accurate report of exactly what was said in the exchange. That is completely different than a supporter in an open forum saying the same thing or a candidate doing the same.

If that were the case, then there would presumably have been no need for Cheney's spokesman to acknowledge that there was a "frank exchange". The spokesguy could've just cited the supposed privacy of the room.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 229):
That is completely different than a supporter in an open forum saying the same thing or a candidate doing the same.

Of course, but calling McCain a "geezer" and Palin "Gidget" doesn't constitute hate, just a lame attempt at smearing an opponent. A supposed rhetorical barb loses most of its effectiveness when one has to stop and explain the association between the word and the individual for whom it was meant. I remember Gidget, but that's because I'm old.

Hanging Palin in effigy, on the other hand, constitutes hate beyond any doubt.

As for the Palin t-shirt, that sounds like the work of some undergrad who has yet to make the intellectual transition from high school to college. Hell, even I remember sophomoric t-shirt messages like "[School A] Sucks, but [School B] Swallows."
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 236):
Hanging Palin in effigy, on the other hand, constitutes hate beyond any doubt.

 checkmark 
..and if that was displayed at a Obama/Biden rally, you bet they would have said something about it right then & there as well as being escorted out by supporters.

Of course shouting racist comments are OK at Palin rallies because that is the kind of scum that is behind McCain/Palin 100%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRLljAMvO2s
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:03 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 235):
So who's taxes will be raised so that Doc can get a better internet connection then?

Do you consider not extending tax cuts which are not permanent the same as raising taxes?

Won't somebody's taxes have to be raised someday to pay for those "stimulus" checks?

Wow, three lines, all to do with raising taxes. Not one word of cutting any program, even a military one to pay for it. That tells us all something doesn't it? But to answer your questions.
1. Nobodies taxes should have to be raised to pay for it, since I don't really think that it's the governments responsibility to do that. But regardless of what I think, chances are after January 20th we are going to see a lot of programs initiated that make no sense so what's one more?

2. Yes, allowing the tax cuts to lapse is in effect a raising of taxes. The real problem will come with, and we have seen the start of this already with the owner of the Dolphins, the raising of capital gains taxes. That is a sure fire way to slow down growth but don't tell that to the Obama campaign because they don't want to hear it. It's also a tax that affects just about every mom and pop out there that still has stocks in their retirement portfolio.

3. Nope, if we start cutting the size of government before we start raising taxes we'd be much better off in the long run. Unless they make the tax raises retro active then money will have to be borrowed to pay for the start up of the program. Then you have to pray that the economy performs well enough to cash in on the projected return on the tax raise which has been shown time and time again to reduce tax receipts over the long run.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 236):
The spokesguy could've just cited the supposed privacy of the room.

By saying a "frank" discussion and not providing any detail he essentially did.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 237):
and if that was displayed at a Obama/Biden rally, you bet they would have said something about it right then & there as well as being escorted out by supporters.

Sure the would have. And the report would have been buried too. Just the other day Obama supporters went into a McCain office and maced the employees, but they were just having fun right Larry? Harmless prank?

http://www.galaxgazette.com/cgi-bin/...20081027-2025-055-055007.Lead+News

Quoting Superfly (Reply 237):
Of course shouting racist comments are OK at Palin rallies because that is the kind of scum that is behind McCain/Palin 100%.

I'm sure there are no racists behind Sen Obama...ooopps forgot, black people can't be racist right Larry?

Those last two comments of yours just show what I was pointing out in posts above. Thanks Larry.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:05 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
I'm sure there are no racists behind Sen Obama...ooopps forgot, black people can't be racist right Larry?

Not sure where you dug that crap up. Not everyone at Obama rallies are Black.
McCain rallys on the other hand.......

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
And the report would have been buried too.

Obviously not as you've already provided a link to the story.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:09 pm

RJdxer:BTW, no where in your article does it say the assailants were part of the Obama campaign.
Also, this was not at a rally. As I said before, people aren't shouting racist remarks at Obama/McCain rallies.
 
PSA727
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:16 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 230):
They already handed me $1500 in "stimulus" that I didn't need this year. I suppose that was socialism too?


No because it wasn't paid for by a certain population segment and given to another. And in
reality, evryone will be footing the bill for the stimulus check since it was paid for with credit.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
Wow, three lines, all to do with raising taxes. Not one word of cutting any program, even a military one to pay for it.

Come off it. This side-conversation stemmed from comments about Obama's tax policy being "socialist" due to the fact that it will "increase" (by not continuing the temporary decrease) in income tax on the wealthiest people. That's why I focused on taxes.

I've noted many times that I've personally observed enormous waste in the defense industry and speculate that huge huge cuts could be made without impacting troop or citizen safety.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
Nobodies taxes should have to be raised to pay for it, since I don't really think that it's the governments responsibility to do that.

I don't know what you're trying to say. The government already already handed out the money.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
chances are after January 20th we are going to see a lot of programs initiated that make no sense so what's one more?

So that's why we were given "stimulus" checks? Because after Jan 20 it will be anything goes?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 238):
if we start cutting the size of government before we start raising taxes

I'm with you there. I seriously doubt we'd agree on what to cut, but I'm sure there's plenty of fat. The fact that you think nothing specifically mandated by the constitution should receive any funding makes rational budget conversation with you pretty much a non-starter.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:47 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 239):
McCain rallys on the other hand.......

Are also not entirely made up of white people.


Quoting Superfly (Reply 239):
Obviously not as you've already provided a link to the story.

And look how far I had to go to find that story. That's not CBS, NBC, or ABC reporting that. Yet when one reporter makes a claim that someone in a McCain/Palin rally shouted "Kill hIm" it is a top 5 story on all the network newscasts and reporters start doing stories on how hate filled the GOP supporters are. But not a peep about this or some other physical attacks Obama supporters have made on McCain supporters over the past few weeks. Hardly any word on Missouri prosecutors talking about arresting anyone who runs an ad critical of Sen. Obama.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 240):
RJdxer:BTW, no where in your article does it say the assailants were part of the Obama campaign.

Nor did I say they were. I said they were supporters. Are you now claiming that those in the audience that shouted racial remarks are McCain campaign workers? If so where's your proof?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 240):
Also, this was not at a rally. As I said before, people aren't shouting racist remarks at Obama/McCain rallies.

That you know of since the reporting is obviously biased as I have shown. BTW as to your back handed assertion, and Luv2Fly's direct charge that McCain/Palin support or do not try to stop those that go over the line.


http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/835810.html
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
Are you now claiming that those in the audience that shouted racial remarks are McCain campaign workers? If so where's your proof?

No.
Sarah Palin clearly heard the remark and chose not to say anything about it. Apparently her rallies are a safe heaven for people to make such remarks.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
BTW as to your back handed assertion

Just pointing out facts. Like it or not.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
Are also not entirely made up of white people.

Wow, 1 Black person.  Yeah sure

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
And look how far I had to go to find that story.

Look at how distant these people are from the Obama campaign.
There is no way you can defend Sarah Palin's inaction when people are shouting such terms right in from of her face on TV.
Do you let your kids talk like this and get away with it James?
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:57 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
That you know of since the reporting is obviously biased as I have shown. BTW as to your back handed assertion, and Luv2Fly's direct charge that McCain/Palin support or do not try to stop those that go over the line.

We are on the same page that is the same incident we are talking about, yes we no he stepped up to the plate "ONCE" what about all the times that McCain and Palin chose to ignore it and by doing that they supported it.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 243):
Are also not entirely made up of white people.

I counted 2 non whites in that photo, it could be the next where's Waldo!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:03 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 245):
I counted 2 non whites in that photo, it could be the next where's Waldo!

LOL!  rotfl 

Now lets look at an Obama rally.
Never mind, they are so large, so diverse, there is no point in trying to compare to see who is more diverse and inclusive.
 
luv2fly
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RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:13 pm

Well Larry I did read that McCain roughly attracts 200 or so at a rally when he is campaigning alone, Palin is the one bringing people in, kinda like passing that accident on the side of the road, you know you shouldn't look yet your eyes are drawn in hopes of seeing something gory.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 247):
Palin is the one bringing people in, kinda like passing that accident on the side of the road, you know you shouldn't look yet your eyes are drawn in hopes of seeing something gory.

It's best I stay as far away from her rallies as possible out of fear of being lynched.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 242):
I don't know what you're trying to say. The government already already handed out the money.

I was talking about Docs slow ass computer and his obviously lame internet connection.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 242):
Because after Jan 20 it will be anything goes?

If the democratic party manages to achieve 60 seats in the Senate as well as the White House, you betcha. The mint won't be able to print money fast enough.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 242):
The fact that you think nothing specifically mandated by the constitution should receive any funding makes rational budget conversation with you pretty much a non-starter.

I never said that. Everything after what is mandated in Constitution is, by definition, discretionary and therefore open to discussion.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 244):
Sarah Palin clearly heard the remark and chose not to say anything about it. Apparently her rallies are a safe heaven for people to make such remarks.

Apparently she is smart enough not to engage one lone idiot in the crowd over an obviously stupid remark. I give her credit for ignoring the person since that it the best way to marginalize one person. Had it been a group chanting that she would have been smart to engage them and disarm them for their behavior.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 244):
Just pointing out facts

Which have now been debunked so what you are pointing to is once again fiction as in the "Kill him" story.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 244):
Wow, 1 Black person.

Actually 2 since her husband/brother/friend is sitting next to her and I figured that's exactly what you would say. See as a liberal only impressions matter to you. The fact that you didn't think there were any, and I showed you this quickly that there are means you now have to deride the fact that there aren't enough to make an impression. BTW this is only one photo, no telling how many others are there. I can dig up more pictures if you wish. The simple fact is though black people make up what percentage of the population? So to expect to see an even mix is ridiculous. You don't see even mixes at Obama rallies, there are almost always more whites than blacks.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 244):
Look at how distant these people are from the Obama campaign.

So again, are you saying the person shouting at the Palin rally is a McCain adviser? Who cares how distant they are? The fact remains they were Obama supporters which debunks your argument that only McCain/Palin supporters act that way.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 244):
Do you let your kids talk like this and get away with it James?

My one child is an adult and she can say whatever she chooses to because of that. The other is still a minor and I would say something to her because she is a minor and I am responsible for her actions. We still have freedom of speech, at least for a little while longer. Again, responding to that person would have only acknowledged them, much better to ignore and marginalize. BTW how do you know the people around her didn't tell her to shut up. According to the way the video plays out she didn't say it again.
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