U.S. Election - McCain/Palin Campaign - Part 7

moderators · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:15 pm

Users have requested that we bring some organization to the large number of posts being made about the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election in the non-aviation forum. For this reason, we’re creating ‘official’ threads to provide some structure to the overall subject, and make it easier for readers to contribute and follow the various discussions.

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Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign (this thread)
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Campaign
Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Polls & Projections
Official U.S. Election – Humor, Commentary, Etc.

Examples of content appropriate for this thread:

McCain/Palin (and GOP) campaign speeches, interviews, clips, gaffes, sound bites, advertising, press releases, etc.

StuckInCA · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:43 pm

From the previous thread...

Quoting AGM100 on my question of "by what metric are we winning in Iraq"

Well my friend the Iraqi's I met this week think we are .... that's why they are leasing 4 new 737's . The Iraqi people want to travel and buy stuff , not the super rich Bathists ... average Iraqi's are demanding travel services. And these wonderful entrepreneurial Iraqi's are doing ..guess what ?.. A LOW COST AIRLINE! Sounds like victory to me !

So you are saying that because some Iraqi's are able to lease 4 737's, we've won?

Was that the goal?

Was it worth it?

AirportSeven · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:46 pm

Police: Campaign Worker Admits Making Up Story

Massive, massive fail.

Does anyone think this disgusting little attempt at race-baiting will make it into McCain's concession speech?

"If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain’s quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting.

Thanks, FoxNews. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Edited 2008-10-24 10:47:22]

[Edited 2008-10-24 10:51:55]

[Edited 2008-10-24 10:52:19]

AirportSeven · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:49 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 1):
So you are saying that because some Iraqi's are able to lease 4 737's, we've won?

Unlike the U.S., Iraq has a huge budget surplus. They can afford to throw some cash around. Unlike the U.S.

AGM100 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:52 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 1):
So you are saying that because some Iraqi's are able to lease 4 737's, we've won?

They got private funding , are taking risks and doing what free people with motivation to aspire can do. Under Saddam , he owned it, he controlled he, robbed it and abused it.. big difference.
Not total victory ... but for me its a good beginning.

Was it worth it ?.... No.. it has destroyed our country .

sv7887 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:59 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 2):
Massive, massive fail.

Does anyone think this disgusting little attempt at race-baiting will make it into McCain's concession speech?

"If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain’s quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting.

No more so than all the race cards that have been played by the Obama camp...But to be fair, she was wrong to do what she did..That's the McCain version of "Kill Him' that was later proved false by the Secret Service (Obama did complain to McCain's face during the debate about that. Don't see an apology from Obama yet..)

I bet John McCain will say something about this long before election day. Unlike Obama McCain has taken great pains to repudiate what idiots say on his behalf.

johnboy · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:06 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
Was it worth it ?.... No.. it has destroyed our country .

Epic. fail.

sv7887 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:08 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 3):

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 1):
So you are saying that because some Iraqi's are able to lease 4 737's, we've won?

Unlike the U.S., Iraq has a huge budget surplus. They can afford to throw some cash around. Unlike the U.S

I wonder what the measure of that surplus is at today's oil prices. I'm wondering how verifiable those numbers are. Iraq has a ton of infrastructure to rebuild, much of which we did destroy in our invasion.

Whatever your thoughts on the Iraq war, we did go there and invade their country. You can't just leave it without fixing things...

11Bravo · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:11 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 2):
Massive, massive fail.

That is really, really bad Wow!

A McCain campaign worker? I wonder if she's a paid employee or just a volunteer. If she's an actual employee this could be a big deal.

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:12 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 2):
Police: Campaign Worker Admits Making Up Story

Massive, massive fail.

Oh. My. Gosh. That's desperation at its finest.

StuckInCA · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:14 pm

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 7):
Whatever your thoughts on the Iraq war, we did go there and invade their country. You can't just leave it without fixing things...

So, does staying and trying to fix things because we f'd them up constitute "winning?" I'd say it's just doing what we have to do and maybe... not losing militarily.

Charles79 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:14 pm

From the previous thread:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 300):
But hey, at least I'm "free

AGM100 responded:
"Freedom with order and honour ... the freedom you condone is a spiral into anarchy . There is no freedom as the left perceives it . We must have rules and standards to uphold as a society , it is what holds it together. ahhhh never mind."

AGM, could you please explain what exactly I posted which would lead to anarchy? And by not agreeing with what the right is doing does that automatically make a liberal/left?

Additionally, could you please explain what rules and/or standards are we supposed to live by? I'm just curious since you seem to confuse basic human rights and decency with anarchy.

mt99 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:23 pm

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 7):
Whatever your thoughts on the Iraq war, we did go there and invade their country. You can't just leave it without fixing things...

Agreed. But there are several way to "fixing" things. How would you know when they are actually fixed? how do you know that you are pouring resources to things that will only get marginally better? How far do you go? Do you give Iraq a better education and health system than the US? Better than its neighbors? Better than before?

"Fixed" is not concrete goal.

11Bravo · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:27 pm

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 2):
Massive, massive fail.

Part II

Apparently this incredibly stupid young woman is NOT and employee of the McCain/Palin Campaign. According to NBC:

Sources: McCain volunteer fabricated attack

Excerpt:

"A John McCain volunteer in Pittsburgh who said she was robbed and sexually assaulted because of her political views has admitted to fabricating the story, police sources told a TV station."

"Ethan Eilon, executive director of the College Republican National Committee, told reporters that Todd worked in New York for several months before moving to Pennsylvania two weeks ago to continue working for the group."

Furthermore, NBC reports:

"The report of the attack prompted the Republican presidential candidate and his running mate, Sarah Palin, to call Todd expressing their concern. Barack Obama's campaign also issued a statement wishing Todd well and hoping the attacker would be swiftly brought to justice."

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:27 pm

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 10):
AGM, could you please explain what exactly I posted which would lead to anarchy? And by not agreeing with what the right is doing does that automatically make a liberal/left?

so far I've heard arguments that nationalized healthcare could lead to internment camps (to force people to practice salubrious lifestyles) and now that it will lead to anarchy.

Yet in EVERY SINGLE OTHER FIRST-WORLD COUNTRY there is nationalized healthcare and somehow they aren't anarchist or running internment camps.

Again, this is the sort of "logic" you see being used in the McCain/Palin camp. It's not conservatism. Conservatism is a viable, practicable political philosophy. This, by contrast, is just pure idiocy. And somehow, idiocy is OK with people for use as a political philosophy, which is why the U.S. nearly collapsed this year.

Charles79 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:35 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
Agreed. But there are several way to "fixing" things. How would you know when they are actually fixed? how do you know that you are pouring resources to things that will only get marginally better? How far do you go? Do you give Iraq a better education and health system than the US? Better than its neighbors? Better than before?

"Fixed" is not concrete goal.

The eternal question regarding Iraq that this administration has failed miserably in responding is "what is the expected outcome". We invaded the country because they had WMD's. Then it was because they had ties to Al-Qaeda (which did not operate inside Iraq before the invasion). Then we needed to stay in to bring "democracy". Then we had to have the surge. Now we have to rebuild. Meanwhile we keep pouring money into this and we don't know yet when we'll be able to declare the job done. Sorry, but when I went through military officer school they always told us that we must have a clear objective and mission goal if we wanted to succeed, which clearly has never been the case with the war in Iraq. And McCain can't offer one either (or Obama for that matter).

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:36 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 14):

Apparently this incredibly stupid young woman is NOT and employee of the McCain/Palin Campaign. According to NBC:

Which is fortunate.

Although there are a lot of people working on both campaigns. You can't hold the candidates accountable if one of their people turns out to be crazy. It's not like McCain personally interviews every volunteer.

A332 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:41 pm

Ahhh... I figured that AP poll on the 22nd was bogus in it's findings.

Poll: Obama Maintains Double-Digit Lead

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...html?tag=topStory;topStoryHeadline

With just twelve days left until Election Day, Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama holds a 13-point lead over Republican rival John McCain, a new CBS News/New York Times poll shows.

Obama now leads McCain 52 percent to 39 percent among likely voters nationwide, roughly the same lead he held last week. Just five percent are undecided, and more than 9 in 10 of each candidate’s supporters say their mind is made up.

mt99 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:42 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
It's not like McCain personally interviews every volunteer.

No but apparently Obama interviews personally every volunteer over at ACORN ..LOL

This is why she looks better than she talks about policy..

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...P23eyGmxqE8EEa7ba6r86BpIwD9410JV80

Palin stylist draws higher pay than policy adviser

By JIM KUHNHENN – 57 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — An acclaimed celebrity makeup artist for Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin collected more money from John McCain's campaign than his foreign policy adviser.

Amy Strozzi, who works on the reality show "So You Think You Can Dance" and has been Palin's traveling stylist, was paid $22,800, according to campaign finance reports for the first two weeks in October. In contrast, McCain's foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was paid $12,500, the report showed.

Arrow · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:50 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 9):
A McCain campaign worker? I wonder if she's a paid employee or just a volunteer. If she's an actual employee this could be a big deal.

As I predicted. This one didn't pass the smell test from Day 1. How unfortunate that both campaigns wasted time and energy wishing this idiot a speedy recovery.

It concerns me that the cops couldn't tell from that immaculately scratched "B" on her face that there was something fishy here -- I guess they do have to turn over every rock before they reach a conclusion.. Oh well, it didn't last very long.

AGM100 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:54 pm

Quoting Johnboy (Reply 6):
Epic. fail.

OH Goody goody goody ! Yes your side won ! congratulations ! Thanks for rooting for the enemy ! Bush Failed hoooray hooray !

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
EVERY SINGLE OTHER FIRST-WORLD COUNTRY

Name one that comes even close to the size of the US ? We are too large , too diverse and we have too many people who can afford there own to smash us all into a federal system designed for everyone. And we already have all kinds of programs to help those who need it.

Besides who the hell can trust the Fed to run health care ! Jeezuz they screw up everything they touch .

sv7887 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:00 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 11):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 7):
Whatever your thoughts on the Iraq war, we did go there and invade their country. You can't just leave it without fixing things...

So, does staying and trying to fix things because we f'd them up constitute "winning?" I'd say it's just doing what we have to do and maybe... not losing militarily.

I wouldn't call it winning at all, moreso cleaning up the mess we and the International community created in 1991.

I'd call winning leaving Iraq in a better state than it existed pre war. Is that possible? I don't know.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):

Agreed. But there are several way to "fixing" things. How would you know when they are actually fixed? how do you know that you are pouring resources to things that will only get marginally better? How far do you go? Do you give Iraq a better education and health system than the US? Better than its neighbors? Better than before?

"Fixed" is not concrete goal.

These are all very good questions. It's something the Iraqis and US have to sit down together and figure out. It sounds like they will have most of the US forces out by 2011, so their perspective is to get in a good enough position so they can finish the job themselves.

StuckInCA · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:00 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):
we have too many people who can afford there own to smash us all into a federal system designed for everyone. And we already have all kinds of programs to help those who need it.

But over 40% of Americans can't afford it and the cost is rising at twice the rate of inflation.

Medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcies.

Charles79 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:07 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 22):
But over 40% of Americans can't afford it and the cost is rising at twice the rate of inflation.

Medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcies.

Shhh, don't say that too loud, it kills the whole free market concept. Oops, too late!

No seriously, we have a problem when we are the wealthiest country ever and so many millions of our citizens either can't afford health insurance, are faced with steep bills EVEN with good coverage, get dropped off by their plans because they are "expensive patients", or, worse, simply ignore sound medical advice and defer treatment because they can't afford it. This is happening every day and is affecting Americans in more ways than the right (or left) care to admit.

AGM100 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:13 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 22):
But over 40% of Americans can't afford it and the cost is rising at twice the rate of inflation.

1. Drop taxes
2. Drop Corp Taxes too 25%
3. Cut cap gains

Watch businesses start booming again , hiring all those people . It will create competition again ..then the cost will come on down. Federalizing it will cut competition, costs to the fed will go up , taxes will go up to pay for it and the whole thing will turn to crap. Not to mention the quality will go down.

StuckInCA · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:18 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 24):

Or the rich will get richer and every one else will continue to get poorer.

AGM100 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:45 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 25):
Or the rich will get richer and every one else will continue to get poorer.

The Rich will get richer ! and the poor will get richer. Rich people spending money and buying products and services on a mass scale is the only way to help the poor.

But I guess we are about to try it your way ... we will see.

Superfly · Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:46 pm

Very disgusting to see such a story made up by that reject.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
You can't hold the candidates accountable if one of their people turns out to be crazy. It's not like McCain personally interviews every volunteer.

True but it says a lot about the kinds of people that have been attracted to the McCain/Palin campaign.

This Ashley Todd reminds me of Susan Smith.

sv7887 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:22 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
True but it says a lot about the kinds of people that have been attracted to the McCain/Palin campaign.

And those who've vandalized cars with McCain stickers and harassed McCain volunteers speak volumes about Obama supporters.

You can't generalize, there are too many extremists on BOTH sides here. It makes for a very dangerous dynamic here. The ugliness displayed on both sides is very troubling to me, the worst I can remember in my short 26 yrs.

Superfly · Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:28 pm

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 28):
And those who've vandalized cars with McCain stickers and harassed McCain volunteers speak volumes about Obama supporters.

Yep, McCain supporters are worse. Ashley Todd's lies was from an old play book that was very common in the American south. The sad part about the Susan Smith's case, authorities even found a man to take the fall for her false story.
Vandalizing cars is bad and those who were caught should be punished. The McCain/Palin crowd is full of some of the most racist low-life scum left in America. I hope Ashley Todd's self inflicted wounds never heel.

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:49 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):

Name one that comes even close to the size of the US ?

Japan, with about half the U.S. population.

The U.S. is the largest country with the largest population in the First World. This does not mean that we can't insure everyone.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):

True but it says a lot about the kinds of people that have been attracted to the McCain/Palin campaign.

No it doesn't. Crazy people can be either conservative or liberal.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 24):

1. Drop taxes

My health insurance costs me $500 a month. Tell me, are my taxes going to drop $6,000 a year?

AGM100 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:50 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Yep, McCain supporters are worse. Ashley Todd's lies was from an old play book that was very common in the American south

STOP IT .. She is a idiotic freak. Her intentions may be what you described and I believe they may have been . But it would not have mattered to the overwhelming number of republicans and trying to make it seem like a sanctioned play is ridiculous.

Superfly · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Crazy people can be either conservative or liberal.

We all know that.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
She is a idiotic freak.

True but it was a learned behavior that she thought she could get away with. Her crime was purely race-related and fueled by her hatred of Blacks. Would she have done this if the Democrats nominated a White candidate?
No.

As far as vandalism goes, not is nothing new to political campaigns.

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. Wink

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Ashley Todd's lies was from an old play book that was very common in the American south. The sad part about the Susan Smith's case, authorities even found a man to take the fall for her false story.

So wait, do we actually know what happened yet? Did ANYONE get robbed or assaulted?

Superfly · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:13 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
So wait, do we actually know what happened yet? Did ANYONE get robbed or assaulted?

The story was false. She already admitted it.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS.../24/mccain.sticker/?iref=hpmostpop

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:19 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):

The story was false. She already admitted it.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS...stpop

Oh, I thought I'd read at some point that someone did get assaulted on camera, but that the person on the camera wasn't the lady in question.

Superfly · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:21 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Oh, I thought I'd read at some point that someone did get assaulted on camera, but that the person on the camera wasn't the lady in question.

Not sure. At least we know it had nothing to do with the Presidential election.

How reliable are these polls?
They are now showing Obama leading in Indiana and North Carolina which I am sceptically of.

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard

Aaron747 · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:36 pm

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 10):

AGM, could you please explain what exactly I posted which would lead to anarchy? And by not agreeing with what the right is doing does that automatically make a liberal/left?

No answer yet. I'm right there with ya Charles - accused of being a liberal lefty with the labels firmly applied before any substantive response to mere questioning of wrong policies can be given.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):
Thanks for rooting for the enemy !

Oh for f*ck's sake, not that tired idea vomit again. It's an INCREDIBLY disrespectful stretch of reasoning to equate pointing out obvious misjudgment and failure with "YAY TERRORISTS - I LOVE AND SUPPORT YOU ALL!".

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):
We are too large , too diverse and we have too many people who can afford there own to smash us all into a federal system designed for everyone.

The UK and Canada aren't diverse? Japan's population isn't too large? Japan and the UK don't have too many people who could otherwise afford their own? I'm not a rabid proponent of national healthcare for other reasons, namely that other named countries don't have anywhere near our defense obligations so we can't really afford it anyway, but if your logic is based entirely on your quoted comments, you're flat wrong.

DocLightning · Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:47 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37):
I'm not a rabid proponent of national healthcare for other reasons, namely that other named countries don't have anywhere near our defense obligations so we can't really afford it anyway, but if your logic is based entirely on your quoted comments, you're flat wrong.

My solution is to decrease the defense obligations.

Why are U.S. taxpayers paying to defend all of Europe from Russia? Why aren't Europeans paying for their own military?

Time to bring the U.S. Military back home and let it do what it's supposed to do, defend the U.S.

Arrow · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
Why are U.S. taxpayers paying to defend all of Europe from Russia? Why aren't Europeans paying for their own military?

That's likely to spark a spirited response once the time zone rolls around a few hours.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
Time to bring the U.S. Military back home and let it do what it's supposed to do, defend the U.S.

It would be in everyone's interest, especially Americans, if this would happen. Other allies would indeed be forced to spend more on defence, and a few so-called "enemies" might prove to be not so hostile. And the real payoff is that the US will have a healthier balance sheet without all that foreign financial bleeding. Start with Iraq.

11Bravo · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:28 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
They are now showing Obama leading in Indiana and North Carolina which I am sceptically of.

The Indiana lead is new as of the last few days. Obama has had a small lead in NC for two weeks or so.

There are several states where McCain's lead has dropped rapidly in the last week or so:

GA, MT, ND, SD, MS, and AZ

Here's a link for state polls:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

AirportSeven · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:32 am

Palin to Dobson: "God will do the right thing on election day."

It has been my contention all along that Governor Palin's selection as the Republican vice presidential candidate was a blatant attempt to court the ultra-conservative wing of the GOP, the evangelicals who hate, HATE John McCain for not being as rabidly anti-choice as they are.

Well, stoking the fires amongst the far right means courting James Dobson and the American Family Association. CNN puts it delicately when they say that Dobson has "never been warm to McCain". It's more like Dobson "would never vote for John McCain under any circumstances". He seems to be rather fond of Governor Palin, though.

I suppose it's not a new thing to invoke God's will as the justification for feeling entitled to victory. It seems a bit presumptuous to me for a mortal to make judgments about God's actions being right or wrong, but that's just me. What's interesting is also how Palin puts McCain and the Republican Party on the hook for a constitutional amendment banning abortion. With as many challenges as America will face in the next four years, does she think it would be a good idea to tie up Congress and the public debate with a wedge issue? Neither she nor McCain could get unanimous GOP support for such a thing, and even if they did they'd still not have enough votes in Congress to get it done. Does McCain even know that he's "solidly there on those solid planks in our platform"?

"I can feel the power of prayer, and that strength that is provided through our prayer warriors across this nation. " War war war war war war war war . War.

DocLightning · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:32 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 39):

That's likely to spark a spirited response once the time zone rolls around a few hours.

Know why I want Europe to increase its military? To put a check/balance on the U.S. Right now we can do whatever the heck we want because nobody can stop us and when we get a yokel in the White House like this last one who wants to just invade sovereign nations for no good reason there's someone to slap some sense into him.

It would be very good for the world to have two first-world, democratic superpowers, instead of one.

BN747 · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:40 am

Any of you remember this thread started by JCS17?

I Think McCain Will Win!

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/non_aviation/read.main/1947692

History is a fabulous thing when you can reach back to the source itself and chance of misinterpretation...

Quoting Superfly,reply=thread starter:
The election is over. I am calling this election for John McCain on the 25th of July (ironically my 25 1/2th birthday). Barring a spectacular fuck up by McCain, he will win the 2008 general election.

Here is my reasoning:

1. Obama should be up by at least 10-20 points nationwide. Bush is horribly unpopular, but yet McCain still polls extremely well in all aspects vs. Obama.

2. The swing states are slowly, but surely turning to McCain. You name the state: Minnesota, Colorado, Ohio, even Michigan etc. Obama has absolutely ZERO momentum in July. That's a problem.

3. Obama is a miss when it comes to actual debates (unlike Hillary). He has difficulty with anything off the cuff and unprepared.

Flame me all you want. I will be humbled if I'm wrong (I might even send Falcon a few bucks to help his family survive), but this election is essentially over.

well..it appears your imbalanced perspective on 'race' tripped you up on ypur 1st point.

2) Never trash talk so early in any competitive arena.

3) You perception and judgement of people is soooo flawed it can lead to nothing but disaster if anything of worth is relied up it by you.

It is time for you to be humbled JCS17..and in 11 days...it'll be time to warm up that crow sandwich.

The latest: Now we learn that a McCain staffer pushed the 'attack story' of the McCain worker, Ashley Todd (by a BIG black guy). And as a Fox News VP said..McCain's ship is now sunk.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1...ey-todd-story-pushed_n_137710.html

JCS..how do you reconcile?

BN747

seb146 · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:43 am

Isn't the slogan of the Palin/McCain campaign "Country First?" Why, then, would they want to continue spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year in Iraq? If country really is their number one priority, hold them to it. Keep their feet to the fire and find out what they will do for the United States of America. Not Iraq, not Iran, not Afganistan, but us, right here, in the USofA that have to work two or three jobs just so we can afford the basics.

And, another thing: Stores blamed high oil prices on the rise in prices in food. Well, now that the price of oil and gas has gone down, the price of food is still up there. One news story I heard on KGW (here in Portland) says the prices are not likely to come down. That sounds like gouging to me. Country first, Palin/McCain. Remember? How can gouging Americans in their hour of need be seen as "Country First?"

Charles79 · Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:45 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 27):
The Rich will get richer ! and the poor will get richer. Rich people spending money and buying products and services on a mass scale is the only way to help the poor.

In theory your logic might sound plausible but in reality the rich may or may not spend proportionate to their increase in income (they're rich for a reason, they know when to spend and when to save!). Also, who is to say that they'll spend their money here, or on US manufactured goods? It's a global economy, and the rich vacation in Paris, buy Italian built Ferraris, and invest in start ups in Indonesia. Unless you specify that they have to spend their money domestically there's no guarantee that making the rich richer will translate to richer poor.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37):
No answer yet. I'm right there with ya Charles - accused of being a liberal lefty with the labels firmly applied before any substantive response to mere questioning of wrong policies can be given.

That's alright, I'm a default mindless liberal just because I went to Yale. No brain here, can't think for myself and don't care about the country. Probably the reason why I served in the Air Force and now do consulting work for a government security agency....

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
My solution is to decrease the defense obligations.

As controversial as it may sound, we can decrease defense spending without making the country any more vulnerable. But good luck going against the establishment of the defense contractor lobbying machine (the only one who tried in recent times was McCain and he got a smear campaign as a thank you note).

11Bravo · Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:15 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
It is time for you to be humbled JCS17..and in 11 days...it'll be time to warm up that crow sandwich.

That sounds like over-confidance to me. Eleven days is a very long time this election year. We have seen swings in momentum materialize in less time than that. McCain is in a very rough spot, no question, but the Fat Lady is still sitting at her table eating dinner. Perhaps this time next week, if things don't change, she'll get up and clear her throat a bit.

AirportSeven · Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:18 am

McCain Communications Director Gave Reporters Incendiary Version Of "Carved B" Story Before Facts Were Known

John Verrilli, the news director for KDKA in Pittsburgh, told TPM Election Central that McCain's Pennsylvania campaign communications director gave one of his reporters a detailed version of the attack that included a claim that the alleged attacker said, "You're with the McCain campaign? I'm going to teach you a lesson."

The KDKA reporter had called McCain's campaign office for details after seeing the story -- sans details -- teased on Drudge.

NAV20 · Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:25 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
Why are U.S. taxpayers paying to defend all of Europe from Russia? Why aren't Europeans paying for their own military?

Time to bring the U.S. Military back home and let it do what it's supposed to do, defend the U.S.

Have to take issue with you there, DocLightning. Certainly some of the European powers have 'musical comedy' militaries (especially some of the latest recruits in Eastern Europe) but Britain and Canada still pull their full weight in NATO.

In any case US forces in Europe ARE defending the USA. In military terms 'the enemy' remains Russia, and the place to fight them is Europe.

In strategic terms there can only be two kinds of conflict - nuclear or non-nuclear. NATO strategy, ever since the 1950s, has been based on the conflict being 'conventional' at first - with the possibility of nukes being used only arising later, probably by the side that is losing the land war.

And that land war can only be fought by troops who are 'in theatre' at the start. Nowadays it is rather more feasible to fly the actual blokes in in a hurry, but their equipment has to be there already, otherwise they won't have anything to fight with. We saw, first in the Gulf War and later with the Iraq invasion, that it takes literally years for US forces to assemble and prepare for a major effort, unless they have the resources already in place.

Actually, that lesson was learned even earlier - in 1941. It's not commonly known that in WW2 there were more British and Commonwealth forces in contact with the enemy than there were American ones right up to August 1944.

So, if you pulled them all back home, any conventional war with Russia would likely be over before they could even get across the Atlantic..........

BN747 · Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:47 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 46):
That sounds like over-confidance to me. Eleven days is a very long time this election year.

Be it as it may, it is the polls that are speaking...not me. In a close race, you'd have a point. Collective polling showing Obama leading between 6-14 points in just the battleground states (CO, FL, IN,OH,VA,NC, MO and PA) and McCain is not ahead in either. And he needs every single one of those to win. A week just won't do it..he needs at least 3 weeks or more to flip those odds.

BN747

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