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travelin man
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Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:46 pm

Senator Ted Stevens was found guilty on all 7 counts of corruption today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tevens28-2008oct28,0,2108830.story

Hopefully this means Alaska will go Democrat for his Senate seat.
 
AirportSeven
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:49 pm



Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

Palin, pallin' with felons.

"Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors."
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:51 pm

This apparently is becoming the pattern of people in Washington DC, who think because of their position that they are above the law. .I'm thinking Congressmen Rick Renzi and William Jefferson are next. Back to Stevens, I doubt he will serve one day, but given his age probation is more like it.
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:01 pm

Just reading the Washington Post reports, I surprised that Senator Stevens (R-Felony) can remain as a senator while he appeals..

If he can pull off an upset victory, Stevens could remain in the Senate for months, if not longer, if he chose to appeal the verdict. Tradition allows him to exhaust his appeals before the ethics committee begins expulsion hearings, according to the Historical Office of the Senate.

Harrison Williams (D-N.J.), the last senator found guilty of a felony while in office, was convicted of one count of conspiracy and two counts of bribery on May 1, 1981, part of the FBI's Abscam scandal. Williams remained in the Senate for almost 10 months before resigning on March 11, 1982, after the ethics committee had recommended to the full chamber that he be expelled.
 
sv7887
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:06 pm



Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 1):

Palin, pallin' with felons.

"Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors."

I guess you're not going to list all the Democrats who've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? If you think corruption is limited to the GOP I have a bridge I want to sell you...

"Two U.S. senators, two former Cabinet members, and a former ambassador to the United Nations received loans from Countrywide Financial through a little-known program that waived points, lender fees, and company borrowing rules for prominent people.

Senators Christopher Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut and chairman of the Banking Committee, and Kent Conrad, Democrat from North Dakota, chairman of the Budget Committee and a member of the Finance Committee, refinanced properties through Countrywide's "V.I.P." program in 2003 and 2004, according to company documents and emails and a former employee familiar with the loans."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...-dodd-kent-conrad-ti_n_106925.html

Power corrupts period. Until we pass ethics reform and term limits it will never stop..
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:49 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 4):
I guess you're not going to list all the Democrats who've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? If you think corruption is limited to the GOP I have a bridge I want to sell you...

Where did AirportSeven say such?
This thread is about Ted Stevens who happens to be a Republican. Don't turn this in to a partisan issue.

Anyhow, polls have been showing Anchorage Mayor Mark Begich leading Senator Ted Stevens even before the guilty verdict.
 
sv7887
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 4):
I guess you're not going to list all the Democrats who've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? If you think corruption is limited to the GOP I have a bridge I want to sell you...

Where did AirportSeven say such?

His comment attackng Palin is what turned it into a partisan thread. She is hardly the first to associate with someone who ended up getting indicted. Rezko is a good example of such a person..
 
RJdxer
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
If he can pull off an upset victory, Stevens could remain in the Senate for months, if not longer, if he chose to appeal the verdict. Tradition allows him to exhaust his appeals before the ethics committee begins expulsion hearings, according to the Historical Office of the Senate.

If he were to win re-election and then resign, how does Alaska law read? Is it necessary for a special election to be held or can the Governor (Palin) appoint some one to serve out his term?
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:57 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 6):
His comment attackng Palin is what turned it into a partisan thread.

Not really. They are both part of the corrupt Alaskan political machine and Palin is under an investigation herself.
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:14 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 7):
Is it necessary for a special election to be held or can the Governor (Palin) appoint some one to serve out his term?

A recent example from Alaska..When Governor Murkowski was elected in 2002, he appointed his daughter Lisa Murkowski to fill his Senate seat, and then at the next general election she won it out right. You have to love Alaska politics.
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:17 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
You have to love Alaska politics.

....the McCain/Palin camp has the nerve to ridicule Chicago politics.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:17 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
You have to love Alaska politics.

Yep D's have never done anything like that.  sarcastic 
 
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fxramper
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:30 pm

He won't be sentenced to any jail time. If he is, Bush will commute it.
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:34 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 12):
He won't be sentenced to any jail time. If he is, Bush will commute it.

What if his sentencing is after January 20th?
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:39 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
What if his sentencing is after January 20th?

It's February 25th.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 11):
Yep D's have never done anything like that. sarcastic

Where did I make this a partisan issue? Alaska government is full of corruption, hence all the federal and state investigations concerning unethical behavior of members of the state/federal elected officials.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:42 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
What if his sentencing is after January 20th?

President can pardon prior to sentencing. Article II, section 2.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:44 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
It's February 25th.

From the CNN article.

The judge originally scheduled sentencing for Jan. 26 but then changed his mind and did not immediately set a date.
 
WestWing
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:46 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
What if his sentencing is after January 20th?

I am uncertain about the legal aspects, but I suppose Dubya can still pardon Uncle Ted any time between Nov 5th and Jan 20th. It would be the expunging of the conviction rather than a commutation of the sentence.

Does this felony conviction mean that he cannot vote now under Alaska law?
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:53 pm

I stand corrected the next hearing will be February 25 with sentencing after that, according to the National Journal.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 15):
President can pardon prior to sentencing. Article II, section 2.

I'm sure that Stevens would move to the top of the list for pardons if he is defeated next week. If he is re-elected I presume it would be up to the Senate (67 votes) if he would be expel or not.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:56 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Where did I make this a partisan issue?

Yeah, whatever. Was what the illegality of the appointment?
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:10 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
Was what the illegality of the appointment?

There wasn't anything illegal, but she has since been investigated by the Feds with no charges filed as this date.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
I'm sure

I'm sure Dubya already penciled in Uncle Teddy for pardons around the 2nd week of January.
 
AirportSeven
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:18 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 4):
I guess you're not going to list all the Democrats who've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? If you think corruption is limited to the GOP I have a bridge I want to sell you...

If you want to discuss corrupt Democrats, start a thread on that topic. This thread is about a corrupt long-time Republican. The Republicans have pounded on the subject of Obama's association with Bill Ayers enough, I just assumed that the guilt by association thing works for conservatives, too.

Don't feel bad, though. There's not much left of the McCain campaign except cries of "Obama's a terrorist who wants to take your guns, force you to convert to Islam and make your children gay socialists. Vote McCain!". Trying to derail this discussion by pointing the finger at Democrats fits right in to the playbook.

I won't take the blame for the charged, partisan nature of politics at this point in time. Republicans had their revolution, and they chose the path of fear, division and partisan politics. The wheels are now coming off for the GOP and the chickens are coming home to roost. There are metaphors everywhere
 
luv2fly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:08 am

Stevens, Palin the apple does not fall far from the tree. Yeah she's a Mavrick all right!
 
roadrunner165
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:11 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Not really. They are both part of the corrupt Alaskan political machine and Palin is under an investigation herself.

Palin is not corrupt. Geez. Your comparing apples and oranges.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
Does this felony conviction mean that he cannot vote now under Alaska law?

No, he will still be on the ticket.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:59 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
Stevens, Palin the apple does not fall far from the tree. Yeah she's a Mavrick all right!

"A spokeswoman for Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, said the governor would likely release a statement through the governor's office, but a Palin aide in the governor's office in Juneau said she was unsure if that release was forthcoming."

Source: http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/...-of-felony-charges-2008-10-27.html

Yeah, why is Palin not outraged by Republican Senator Steven's unlawful behavior? She's a real maverick...  irked 
 
WestWing
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:41 am



Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 24):
No, he will still be on the ticket.

I was asking whether he can VOTE in the election (not whether he can still run for the office). There is no law that prevents a convicted felon from running for and/or serving in the US Senate, but many states have laws that disenfranchise convicted felons from voting (sometimes for life). Does Alaska do this also?
 
roadrunner165
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:01 am

WestWing. Yes, sir. I stand corrected.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 25):
Yeah, why is Palin not outraged by Republican Senator Steven's unlawful behavior? She's a real maverick...

In the likely event that Obama is elected, Sarah will have to return to Alaska and deal with state politics again. A lot of Alaskans believe in Ted, no matter what the courts say. So if she were to come out and disown Steven's, she would pay some price in her next election. After all, Uncle Ted is still the most important man in Alaska history.
 
57AZ
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:06 am

Alaska Statutes:

Title 15: Elections

Sec. 15.05.030. Loss and restoration of voting rights.

(a) A person convicted of a crime that constitutes a felony involving moral turpitude under state or federal law may not vote in a state, federal, or municipal election from the date of the conviction through the date of the unconditional discharge of the person. Upon the unconditional discharge, the person may register under AS 15.07.

(b) The commissioner of corrections shall establish procedures by which a person unconditionally discharged is advised of the voter registration requirements and procedures.

Evidently, under existing law he will not be able to vote in the election. Ironic, huh? He stands for re-election, yet cannot vote because he's now a convicted felon. If he manages to get re-elected, the sitting President can pardon him but the Senate can still give him the boot. Either way, his political legacy has been tarnished and his political future is very unclear.
 
jhooper
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:51 am

Just out of curiousity, why wasn't he hauled out of the courtroom in handcuffs just like every other convicted felon? Has he even been arrested for these crimes?
 
WestWing
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:19 am



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 28):
.....convicted of a crime that constitutes a felony involving moral turpitude....

There is some discussion (on this blog) about whether Stevens was legally "convicted" when the jury found him guilty or are there procedural matters to be completed - such as a judge having to formally enter an "order of conviction" - before Stevens is considered convicted in the strict legal sense.
 
57AZ
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:38 pm

My understanding (from having interned in the United States District Courts) is that once a jury returns a guilty verdict, the defendant is convicted on the charges for which they were found guilty. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as an "order of conviction" in the United States District Court. The court would enter an Minute Entry to the effect that the defendant has been found guilty on specific charges and would set the matter for sentencing. Bottom line-the jury handed back a verdict and that stands. The verdict decides when and if you are guilty, not procedural matters.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:00 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Back to Stevens, I doubt he will serve one day, but given his age probation is more like it.

 checkmark  The worst he will get is a fine and a record.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
What if his sentencing is after January 20th?

It does not matter. The President can pardon Stevens regardless of what the courts decide to do. Once someone is pardoned, there is nothing the law can do about it, even if that person has not been sentenced yet.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
Stevens, Palin the apple does not fall far from the tree. Yeah she's a Mavrick all right!

Palin has nothing to do with this. Your shot at Palin is cheap. Give it a rest, Luv2Fly. Your anti-Palin campaign is getting real, real old!

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 29):
Just out of curiousity, why wasn't he hauled out of the courtroom in handcuffs just like every other convicted felon? Has he even been arrested for these crimes?

Stevens didn't commit murder, per se... There is a difference between lying and committing murder. If Stevens actually did kill someone, then you would see the jewelery on him.
 
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keesje
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:00 pm

I think the Palin team is not amused, neither McCain..

 
StuckInCA
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:02 pm



Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 27):
A lot of Alaskans believe in Ted, no matter what the courts say. So if she were to come out and disown Steven's, she would pay some price in her next election. After all, Uncle Ted is still the most important man in Alaska history.

So she's playing politics. Like the "Washington elite." Not too "mavericky."  Wink
 
AirCop
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:44 pm

Watching MSNBC this morning while cleaning the house, I saw that John McCain stated that Ted Stevens should step down..
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):

Palin has nothing to do with this. Your shot at Palin is cheap. Give it a rest, Luv2Fly. Your anti-Palin campaign is getting real, real old!

Don't dish out what you can't take Airframe. If Palin's campaign jumped all over the thing with Ayers, this is fair game. More than fair game.
 
57AZ
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:57 pm

I suspect that his political career may well be over. Even if he does win re-election, I doubt that the Senate will allow him to remain.
 
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ER757
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:06 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
If he can pull off an upset victory, Stevens could remain in the Senate for months, if not longer, if he chose to appeal the verdict. Tradition allows him to exhaust his appeals before the ethics committee begins expulsion hearings, according to the Historical Office of the Senate.

Well, they're all crooks anyhow - just protecting one of their own  Wink
I personally can't stand this guy, but face the fact that he's far from the only one involved in this sort of thing. He was just unfortunate enough to get caught.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
The worst he will get is a fine and a record.

In all likelyhood, this is true. And that's only if Bush doesn't pardon him first.

Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 24):
Palin is not corrupt

 Yeah sure oh please.......
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:36 pm



Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 24):
Palin is not corrupt. Geez.

Sure about that?
She under investigation as well.

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 37):
Even if he does win re-election, I doubt that the Senate will allow him to remain.

If he is kicked out of the Senate, Sarah Palin would have to pick his successor.  Sad
Would she appoint her husband Todd?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:07 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
Stevens, Palin the apple does not fall far from the tree. Yeah she's a Mavrick all right!

Palin has nothing to do with this. Your shot at Palin is cheap. Give it a rest, Luv2Fly. Your anti-Palin campaign is getting real, real old!

She is a whole lot closer to him then Obama ever was to Ayers! And it has been forever captured on film. I am not sure why the Democrats can be blamed for the company they kept in the past and why the Republicans can not, care to explain that double standard to me.
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:13 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 40):
She is a whole lot closer to him then Obama ever was to Ayers! And it has been forever captured on film. I am not sure why the Democrats can be blamed for the company they kept in the past and why the Republicans can not, care to explain that double standard to me.

 checkmark 

You see, these people think they walk on water because their pastor said so.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:55 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
If he is kicked out of the Senate, Sarah Palin would have to pick his successor. Sad
Would she appoint her husband Todd?

Well, there seems to be a precedent for this type of Alaskan political behavior.

Lisa Murkowski, while a member of the state House, was appointed by her father, Governor Frank Murkowski, to his own unexpired U.S. Senate seat in December 2002, which he had vacated after being elected Alaska's governor.

After widespread cries of nepotism, a ballot measure was voted on and passed in 2004 after Alaskans voted to take the power to appoint U.S. senators AWAY from the state governor.

The more I learn about Alaskan politics, the more filthy and corrupt it gets. Very shady politics seem to take place there. What a shame!
 
Superfly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 42):
After widespread cries of nepotism, a ballot measure was voted on and passed in 2004 after Alaskans voted to take the power to appoint U.S. senators AWAY from the state governor.

Now that's a relief.

It would be smart for Alaska voters to just vote for Mark Begich and avoid any more embarrassment for their state.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:31 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Now that's a relief.

It would be smart for Alaska voters to just vote for Mark Begich and avoid any more embarrassment for their state.

I think that the state of Alaska will be the butt of late night talk shows for many years to come. They have a whole lot to live down.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:39 pm

Republican Senator Jim DeMint stated today that Ted Stevens should immediately resign his seat in the U.S. Senate.

"Sen. Stevens' conviction reaffirms that no man is above the law. Service in the Senate demands the highest ethical standards. Unfortunately, his conviction proved that he has failed to meet those standards and he should resign immediately. Republicans must set a new course to clean up, reform and rebuild our party from within so that we can fight for freedom and liberty with the full confidence of the American people."

Source: http://www.politico.com/playbook/1008/playbook476.html
 
luv2fly
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:44 pm

I see that McCain has come out and said that Stevens should step down ASAP! Now Palin has only said it is a sad day for Alaska and for Stevens and his family! I guess she doe not want to upset the apple cart when she heads back to Alaska and has to work with him. Come on Palin be a Maverick like you say you are and call Stevens the criminal that he is.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:31 am

I wonder if they'll rename ANC and take off Ted Stevens Int'l  Big grin
 
Dougloid
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:53 am



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
The court would enter an Minute Entry to the effect that the defendant has been found guilty on specific charges and would set the matter for sentencing. Bottom line-the jury handed back a verdict and that stands. The verdict decides when and if you are guilty, not procedural matters

There are differences of opinion on that matter. In some places it's not final until the court makes a calendar entry of judgment in which it is recited that the jury having found the fellow guilty it is ordered adjudged and decreed that...... Of course that usually happens pretty much the same day.

On the civil side there is more controversy about this. If your lexis subscription's up to date take a look at a Texas case named S&A Restaurants v. Leal from back around 12 years ago. It's interesting reading and an admonishment not to count your chickens before they hatch.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 22):
Republicans had their revolution, and they chose the path of fear, division and partisan politics. The wheels are now coming off for the GOP and the chickens are coming home to roost. There are metaphors everywhere

I think it most interesting that McCain is pitching a line of "W-w-well, you don't want to have the same party a majority in congress and in the whitehouse-it'd be unamerican!". That's not what the GOP said back in the days of Chairman Newt and Gauleiter Rove-they thought a durable majority was a good thing.

If you hold the stake I will swing the sledge hammer.
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
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RE: Alaska Senator Found Guilty Of Corruption

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:48 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 49):
Of course that usually happens pretty much the same day.

Yes. In those cases, the judge simply makes the statement and it's entered into the court Minutes-often right after the jury returns the verdict. As for Lexis, I don't have access to that but I can dig that case law up in the court Law Library sometime when I'm on lunch.

Civil law can be pretty fluid and messy. In this specific case however, I do believe that he (Stevens) has been duly convicted under the rules of the United States District Courts. If that is in fact the case, then the Alaska Statutes will most likely bar him from voting on Election Day as they recognize both federal and state convictions as disqualifying conditions.

As for naming ANC after Stevens, that made me suspicious of Alaskan politics and ethics (or lack thereof). Some states and local political bodies have restrictions governing the naming of public government facilities. In Tennessee, the state law requires that for the naming of state buildings or facilities (highways not included), the person being recognized shall be deceased for a period of two years.

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