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stasisLAX
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General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:06 pm

"General Motors Corp. is pressing the Bush administration for more than $10 billion in immediate government assistance, which would help shore up its tattered balance sheet and provide the cash required for a takeover of ailing Chrysler.

The two companies are already close to a deal that would put GM in control of Chrysler. That would leave Chrysler boss Robert Nardelli, brought into save the company, out of a job. "We can acknowledge that we have been in contact with a variety of federal officials for some time during this extraordinary and difficult economic period," said GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson. "We have said publicly, in comment to the Michigan [Congressional] delegation's call for support of the industry, that we believe the Federal government should consider all of the tools available to it — some recently enacted — to support industries that are in distress and that are essential to the U.S. economy," he said.

On Thursday, those efforts got another boost as governors from six states — Delaware, Kentucky, Michigan, New York, Ohio and South Dakota — submitted their own letter in support of the industry's aid request."

Source: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1855185,00.html

More bad news for the American taxpayers - the GM/Chrysler combination is sure to lose billions of tax dollars IMHO.   

[Edited 2008-10-30 15:29:59]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
A332
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:14 pm

The sad part is that GM's motivation seems to be getting at Chrysler's $11 billion in cash reserves so that there is adequate 'cash to burn' until it's 'savior' Chevy Volt is released in 2010.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
Charles79
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:25 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):

More bad news for the American taxpayers - the GM/Chrysler combination is sure to loss billions of tax dollars IMHO.

Don't these people read history books, don't they know about British Leyland for instance? First we had to foot the bill for Wall Street, now we have to foot the bill for the car companies? What next, bailout United Airlines? Kleenex? Kmart? Where does it end?

General Motors, Chrysler, and to a lesser extent, Ford, find themselves in this situation because of their own incompetence. Uncompetitive products, coupled with a focus on short term gains, lackluster quality, and poor customer service and dealers yielded the current scenario that they are facing. This goes too far in my opinion.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:25 pm

Here comes the press onslaught regarding the Chrysler buy-out by General Motors.

Grant Thornton LLP, one of the world's top merger and acquisition firms, stated in the Wall Street Journal today that they believe the Chryler buy-out is "likely".

One of Grant Thornton's principals stated to a WSJ reporter that "Chrysler as we know it will cease to exist very soon.”

Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/...losses-seen-in-chrysler-gm-merger/
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:31 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 2):
What next, bailout United Airlines? Kleenex? Kmart? Where does it end?

Just wait and see what happens if the Fed allows GMAC to get a bank charter...
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:36 pm



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 4):
Just wait and see what happens if the Fed allows GMAC to get a bank charter...

Already happening, FriendlySkies!

"GMAC, the financing arm of General Motors Corp., is taking steps to become a bank holding company, potentially giving it greater access to the government's $700-billion financial bailout package, according to sources familiar with the matter.

The lender, 49% owned by GM, is currently regulated as an industrial bank by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. but might switch to a commercial bank holding charter regulated by the Federal Reserve, said the people, who did not want to be identified because they were not authorized to speak about the effort."....

"On Monday, GMAC was approved by the Fed for access to its new short-term commercial paper backstop, potentially providing it with as much as $10 billion in funding."

Source: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gmac30-2008oct30,0,4438990.story
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:36 pm



Quoting A332 (Reply 1):
The sad part is that GM's motivation seems to be getting at Chrysler's $11 billion in cash reserves so that there is adequate 'cash to burn' until it's 'savior' Chevy Volt is released in 2010.

I wonder what their plan B is should the Volt perform lower then their seemingly super-high expectations?
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 pm



Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 6):
I wonder what their plan B is should the Volt perform lower then their seemingly super-high expectations?

If they Volt fails miserably (which is a real possibility), Chapter 11 bankruptcy would be the most likely outcome.

GM has already frozen alot of research and development work, delaying the release of the Chevy Cruze, the new Cadlillac STS/DTS replacement, and the Buick Lucerne replacements - and completely canceled the development work for the next-generation Chevy Tahoe/Suburban, GMC Yukon/Denali, and the Cadillac Escalade.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:48 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 5):
Already happening, FriendlySkies!

Commercial paper is one thing. They haven't approved making GMAC a bank holding company yet, and they shouldn't.

The second they do that, I'd fully expect to see GE and other large corporate lending arms applying for the same thing. And if the lending companies all get bailed out, what about the auto makers? Lots of lost manufacturing jobs there. And if they get bailed out, what about the airlines? What about Ma and Pa's Diner, they probably get less business these days, shouldn't they get a piece of the action? Where does it end?

I supported the bailout because, in theory, buying up toxic holding should increase bank equity, allowing the frozen credit market to start up again. That hasn't happened yet. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and making GMAC a bank is just going to open a new can of worms...
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:58 pm

More details of the Chrysler buy-out are hitting the financial press. Here's some more Chrysler news for Bloomberg.com:

"A merger of General Motors Corp., the largest U.S. automaker, and Chrysler LLC may cost 74,000 jobs and close half of the smaller company's plants, according to a report from an accounting firm.

The combination may eliminate all but seven of Chrysler's car and truck models, Grant Thornton LLP said. Chrysler, the No. 3 U.S. automaker, would keep the Dodge Ram pickup, minivans and some Jeep models, the report said. GM and Chrysler owner Cerberus Capital Management LP are studying a merger, people familiar with the plans have said."

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ay4zgB.KWb4o

Can someone PLEASE explain how laying off 74,000 Chrysler employees and closing half of Chrysler's assembly plants is GOOD for the country?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 7):
GM has already frozen alot of research and development work, delaying the release of the Chevy Cruze, the new Cadlillac STS/DTS replacement, and the Buick Lucerne replacements - and completely canceled the development work for the next-generation Chevy Tahoe/Suburban, GMC Yukon/Denali, and the Cadillac Escalade.

I have never understood why one corporate parent (GM) has many different vehicles under different brands copeting against each other basically, yes people have fond memories of such and such a vehicle 10-20-35 years ago, but c'mon! thats a huge amount of overhead spent when you could really offer say a model per segment, maybe differentiating segments more in the process so you don't only produce 3 or 4 vehicles, but it would still seemongly save boatloads of desparately needed cash...

I'll add to that that I think the suspension of development on next gen land cruiseships is a good idea but they SHOULD NOT limit themselves to having the Volt as the only possibly saving grace! Keep the R&D in other segments flowing....
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
srbmod
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:33 pm



Like I said in the earlier thread on this, GM needs to get their own house in order before doing such a deal. Cerebus is essentially damning Chrysler and Dodge to the dustbin of history if they make this deal.

Here's an interesting blog entry from Allpar regarding this possible deal:

Chrysler has more for GM than minivans and Jeeps

There are vehicles and technologies that Chrysler has that are of very good value to GM.

There's a very interesting angle/rumor/w.a.g. about this deal that is floating about. GM isn't buying Chrysler, that's just the story being given to the public. The only deal that GM is involved in is being bought out by Cerebus. Think about it for a second. Cerebus is flush with cash and could easily buy GM's stake in GMAC without having to throw Chrysler LLC into the deal. GM's request for cash from the Feds to make the deal happen is possibly a diversionary tactic. GM's request gets denied, Cerebus comes in and makes an offer for GM and looks like a savior. Merged company retains the GM name (bigger worldwide name recognition), some brands will be sold off, others axed.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:41 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
GM isn't buying Chrysler, that's just the story being given to the public. The only deal that GM is involved in is being bought out by Cerebus.

A Chrysler buy-out by GM could actually be a "pre-packaged bankruptcy" by Chrysler where GM agrees to purchase specific assets (such as assembly plants for some Jeep and minivans models) and where Chrysler's creditors agree to a pre-determined settlement amount before an actual bankrupcy filing takes place.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:33 am



Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 10):
I have never understood why one corporate parent (GM) has many different vehicles under different brands copeting against each other basically, yes people have fond memories of such and such a vehicle 10-20-35 years ago, but c'mon! thats a huge amount of overhead spent when you could really offer say a model per segment, maybe differentiating segments more in the process so you don't only produce 3 or 4 vehicles, but it would still seemongly save boatloads of desparately needed cash...

This is exactly why the auto industry is in the position that they're in.

Forget the import discussion, which is another issue, but the fact that GM has soo many cross-platform lines that compete with each other is just ludicrous.

This isn't going to solve anything. These Automobile companies wanted maximum profits by selling people fuel inefficient vehicles that were expensive and made them more money, than being smart and providing fuel efficient vehicles that may not have made them as much money.

I'm tired of bailing out companies like these.. big business has raped us for years, and unfortunately the employee's are the ones who are taking the brunt of the fall.

I say let the strong survive, and let the weak disappear. Period. Too many different vehicles out there to choose from.

1011yyz
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:28 am



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 13):
Forget the import discussion, which is another issue, but the fact that GM has soo many cross-platform lines that compete with each other is just ludicrous.

They have too many badge engineered platforms because GM has too many dealers that sell too many car brands. The dealers cry and scream for models that other divisions have, which is why five awful, poorly built mid-sized SUVs were sold (Chevy Trailblazers, GMC Envoy, Olds Bravados, Buick Rainers, and Saab 9-7s) off of one cheesy SUV platform to keep the dealers organizations happy.

It cost GM billions of dollars (the final amount was never released) to settle lawsuits brought against it by former Oldsmobile dealers in North America. There are numerous state laws that protect car dealerships from being booted out of business by the manufacturers. The reason that dealerships possess such political clout in that in small-town America, the largest local business is most likely to be a car dealership!
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Charles79
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:44 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 14):
It cost GM billions of dollars (the final amount was never released) to settle lawsuits brought against it by former Oldsmobile dealers in North America.

Exactly the reason why they should enter Ch 11 bankruptcy protection and be allowed to close down the divisions they don't need without having to pay up ridiculous amounts to dealers/suppliers/towns where the plants are located, etc. This way our tax money won't go directly to their checking accounts so that they can go and vacation at Cannes.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 13):
I'm tired of bailing out companies like these.. big business has raped us for years, and unfortunately the employee's are the ones who are taking the brunt of the fall.

Ironic that we can't afford to offer a decent education to millions of kids or offer assistance to folks who go bankrupt because of medical bills yet we reward poor management by bailing them out.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 8):
But you have to draw the line somewhere, and making GMAC a bank is just going to open a new can of worms...

We are threading dangerous waters in here. I understand that extreme conditions call for extreme measures but it makes no sense to go deeper into debt so that we can afford a few more luxuries while passing the buck to our kids.
 
57AZ
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:41 am

Frankly, the bottom line is that unless GM does some RADICAL restructuring, it will quickly collapse. The merger of GM and Chrysler would be very risky and probably a bad financial move. If GM is going to collapse, better to let it go and let Chrysler stagger on (saving at least a few jobs in the process), rather than taking both of them out.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
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DocLightning
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:04 am

I pale to think of what it will mean for the state of Michigan if GM and Chrysler went tits-up.

You think it's bad there now... Oh, I can only imagine so many doomsday scenarios before my brain starts to hurt.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 15):

Ironic that we can't afford to offer a decent education to millions of kids or offer assistance to folks who go bankrupt because of medical bills yet we reward poor management by bailing them out.

We can't afford high-speed rail, new airports, or new roads. We can't afford a new ATC system or proper data network infrastructure. We can't afford healthcare. We can't afford to spend money on schools like we should. We can't afford to research alternative fuels. But we can afford an idiotic "war" and $700B in bailouts. Sing it, Brothah!



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 14):
The reason that dealerships possess such political clout in that in small-town America, the largest local business is most likely to be a car dealership!

Or a whole strip of them! I'm serious, folks. For those of you who have never been in the U.S., when you get out in the Midwest, it's not uncommon to go past a smallish town on the freeway and see five or eight car dealerships all lined up in a row just outside it! They're called "auto malls." No joke!
-Doc Lightning-

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ltbewr
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:59 am

I have serious doubts about this deal going through. There would be many 1000's of good paying 'white collar' jobs that would be destroyed at Chrysler and suppliers in a merger. The United Auto Workers will put a lot of pressure on all politicans on all levels to protect all their jobs and the retiree benefits, especially those in Michigan and locations where they have plants - including Illinois where Sen. Obama, likely future President, is from. I don't think he want's the label of being President and see the end of Chrysler as a car maker.

To me Chrysler has been in trouble since the mid-1970's and almost went out of business in 1980 during another financial and oil crises. More recently, they failed to replace the Neon with a comparative small car, instead did so with the less fuel efficent Caliber and it's clones. They were and are far too reliant on the Jeep line of SUV's and Dodge Ram trucks, something that has now a dead line of vehicles. But for the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger, they have no real desirable cars and even those models are dying in more fuel concerned markets. Poor quality control, for years making mini-vans and other vehicles with auto transmissions that were very unreliable, air conditioning units that didn't last 6 years (I know that from personal experience), too many minor glitches and flaws, lousy resale values, all just drove many millions of possible customers to other brands, especially Toyota and Honda. Also, if Chrysler dies, it will reduce competition, leading to higher prices for all vehicles.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:55 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
they failed to replace the Neon with a comparative small car, instead did so with the less fuel efficent Caliber and it's clones.

There's a corporate clone to the Dodge Caliber? That's news to me.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ABQ747
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:53 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
There's a corporate clone to the Dodge Caliber? That's news to me.

Jeep Compass.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:37 pm



Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 20):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
There's a corporate clone to the Dodge Caliber? That's news to me.

Jeep Compass.

While the Compass (also the Jeep Patriot) may share some components (and possibly the platform (not 100% sure on this one) as the Caliber; I don't believe that it's a full-blown corporate clone to the Caliber. The Compass and Patriot are slightly taller and larger than the Caliber and marketed as Cross-overs/small SUVs. In contrast, the Caliber is marketed as a small hatchback.

Typically, coporate clones (or cousins) are 2 or more EXACT same vehicles but offered in different makes from said-coporation.

Current corporate clones in the Chrysler/Dodge divisions would be:

300/Charger
Aspen/Durango
Sebring/Avenger

Despite being in the Chrysler Corporation for 21 years, the Jeep division still offers a separate product-line that, in some instances, compete with the Chrysler/Dodge lineup. Example: The Jeep Commander and the Chrysler Aspen/Dodge Durango are 2 completely different vehicle platforms that compete for a similar market/mission.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Charles79
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:12 pm

CNN is now reporting that the Treasury is not going to bail out Chrysler and GM. Apparently the Treasury is over its head in debt from handouts already given out to Wall Street. Instead, the next President (whoever wins) will have to deal with the decision to either save the car companies or let them be taken over by someone else (or die). I vote for the latter.
 
TWFirst
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:09 pm

Very sad. Although as a Manhattan resident I no longer own a car, I bought the very first generation Neon and it served me faithfully for 180,000+ miles. I love Chrysler's styling and have since they reinvented themselves with the introduction of the "cab forward" platform in the '90s... since then, all of Chrysler's gorgeous and functional designs have totally stood out from the crowd (although, they never seemed to have quite solved all their build quality problems). And I've rented a Caliber and think it also is very well designed and drives great. Too bad they couldn't have captured more of the market.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
rlwynn
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
There's a corporate clone to the Dodge Caliber? That's news to me

Journey
Avenger
Compass
Patriot.
Sebring
Mitsubishi Outlander
Lancer
Citroen C-Crosser
Peugeot 4007
I can drive faster than you
 
PHLBOS
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 24):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
There's a corporate clone to the Dodge Caliber? That's news to me

Journey
Avenger
Compass
Patriot.
Sebring
Mitsubishi Outlander
Lancer
Citroen C-Crosser
Peugeot 4007

I believe you misunderstood what I was conveying. I'm not talking about vehicle clones in general (which is what you have listed); I was only referring to clones of the Dodge Caliber and ONLY the Dodge Caliber. NONE of those vehicles you listed are DIRECT CLONES of the Dodge Caliber.

From my later-post:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 21):
Current corporate clones in the Chrysler/Dodge divisions would be:

300/Charger
Aspen/Durango
Sebring/Avenger

These are direct clones but are not in the same vehicle CLASS as the Dodge Caliber. And, yes, the Jeep Compass and Patriot are indeed clones within the same Jeep division; but NOT one Dodge and Chrysler vehicle has a DIRECT clone of this vehicle.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
srbmod
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 21):
Current corporate clones in the Chrysler/Dodge divisions would be:

300/Charger
Aspen/Durango
Sebring/Avenger

While the 300 and the Charger share the LX platform (The Challenger also uses the LX platform), there's very little shared sheet metal between the two. What they share in terms of parts is what you don't see.

The Sebring and the Avenger are virtually identical under the styling (There's very little shared sheet metal here as well), as they both use the JS platform, which is a stretched and wider version of the GS platform used by the Caliber/Compass/Patriot.

The Stratus was very much a clone of the Sebring, with the only differences being the Dodge front end and the rear tail lights.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:24 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
While the 300 and the Charger share the LX platform (The Challenger also uses the LX platform), there's very little shared sheet metal between the two.

True, but both of them are STILL large sedans with the Chrysler being the more formal/expensive of the two. Similar was true with the early 90s Olds 98 vs. the Buick Park Avenue.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
The Sebring and the Avenger are virtually identical under the styling (There's very little shared sheet metal here as well), as they both use the JS platform

Again, true, but both are going after the same mid-size sedan market. Similar to the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
The Stratus was very much a clone of the Sebring, with the only differences being the Dodge front end and the rear tail lights.

Very true. Much like the 1985 Olds 98 & Buick Electra.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
wider version of the GS platform used by the Caliber/Compass/Patriot.

I was not aware that the Compass/Patriot shared the EXACT same platform as the Caliber; to me, those Jeeps appear a bit bigger. Are they stretched somewhat?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Flighty
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:39 pm

These people are clowns.

It has become the new profit strategy to simply go to our government and lobby for billions of dollars in free taxpayer money. You know what, that is called corruption. Let us embrace the free market. You sell enough cars, you survive. You don't, and sorry you die.

GM has been mismanaged for around 35 years. As a corporation they have remarkably little market value today. $3.28 billion. You can't say they had no opportunities. Instead GM and UAW squandered the most fertile opportunities on planet Earth, and ended up with near nothing. This is not the track record that should be rewarded with magical federal dollars.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:43 pm

Why Chrysler would allow the very respected Jeep brand to be cheapened by the horridly ugly "soft-roader" poseurs like the Compass and the Patriot (Jeeps based on CAR platforms!) is just poor management decision-making. These two models should be the very first models cut from the Jeep line-up, along with the Commander model. The thought of a 3 row seating, 7 passenger leather and wood lined Jeep (where the people in the third row need to be under 5 foot tall in order to fit in the seats) completely goes against the Jeep brand's outdoors image and is just...well, DUMB!  no 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:30 am



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 21):
Current corporate clones in the Chrysler/Dodge divisions would be:

300/Charger
Aspen/Durango
Sebring/Avenger

Caliber/Compass - and i believe PT Cruiser on same chassis
Caravan/Town and Country
Aspen/Durango/Commander
Nitro/Patriot


and if GM and Chrysler merge you will have the PT Cruiser and HHR... ok just kidding about that
 
Alessandro
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:45 am

So what will GM do to pay for this, sell off Hummer share? SAAB is unsellable I think so they got to close that brand down soon.

[Edited 2008-11-02 03:48:25]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
srbmod
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RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:22 pm



Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 30):

Caliber/Compass - and i believe PT Cruiser on same chassis

The PT Cruiser doesn't use the same platform. If they do keep it past the 2009 M.Y., it may be put on the same platform as the Journey, the JZ, which is another variant of the GS platform used in various forms by the Caliber, Compass, Patriot, Sebring, and Avenger.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 30):
Nitro/Patriot

Actually, it's the Jeep Liberty, not the Patriot that is the corporate clone.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 30):

and if GM and Chrysler merge you will have the PT Cruiser and HHR... ok just kidding about that

I know you're kidding, but there's still the possibility that the PT Cruiser may be gone after the current M.Y. as it is an oddball in the entire Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep line up in terms of parts. It's a unique design that has parts that fit it and no other vehicle, combined with it being on a platform used on by it (Originally, the PT Cruiser was supposed to use the same platform as the Neon, but they could not make the platform work. They actually developed the PT platform from aspects of several other platforms and in the process essentially created a light truck platform.).
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15033
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:09 pm

The latest media reports seem to say that the GM deal is dead for now, due to a lack of investment interest by the Feds and the Nissan deal is on hold as well. Who know what will happen now.
There were some rumors and stories that a goal was to do the deal on Election day, perhaps hoping for the politicans wanting to get votes in the GM-Chrysler plant states and areas pushing for financial support on a potential deal and to do under the media radar due to the election coverage.
To me unless some deal is done to dump the massive legacy retiree costs, especially as to union employees, then no deal can happen or for that matter even have to happen.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 33):
Who know what will happen now.

GM should be on totally firm financial ground. Look at Toyota. They know what they are doing. GM has some great engineering and great stylists. The problems are UAW and executive decisions (including product choices and risk management). GM is a big company but not a valuable company. If they go Chapter 11 it would be an opportunity to build a new, modern car company to replace GM, using its excellent technology and design staff.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: General Motors Nearly Finished Chrysler Takeover!

Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:48 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 33):

Myself, I would much prefer the deal that involves the Renault-Nissan alliance (A little bit of history repeating if that were to happen.), as that would keep the Chrysler brands alive and not part of a bigger house of cards that is ready to collapse at any moment (Chrysler is in a similar state, just not as bad off as GM).

Some of the fruits of the current agreement between Chrysler and Nissan are about to bear fruit. 2010 sees the Dodge Hornet come to market based on the B-car platform used by Nissan's Cube and Renault's Clio. Chrysler is about to sell a rebadged Versa in Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, and Uruguay as the Dodge Trazo.

What's also interesting is that there have been talks of a car based on the Fiat 500 (Fiat bought the Tritec Motors joint venture between Chrysler and Rover earlier this year.).

I think in the long run, it would be best for Chrysler to join the Renualt-Nissan alliance, as that gives them the better chance of success. It would give Renault a chance to re-enter the US market without having to develop a dealer network, as they could see these vehicles as a Chrysler or Dodge. Nissan could benefit by this arrangement as well. Some of their product line could be tweaked with rebadged Dodge/Jeep vehicles (Drop them as a Dodge or Jeep product and sell them as a NIssan.).

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