Users have requested that we bring some organization to the large number of posts being made about the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election in the non-aviation forum. For this reason, we’re creating ‘official’ threads to provide some structure to the overall subject, and make it easier for readers to contribute and follow the various discussions.

Six threads are being created, including this one. If you want to add a post, please make sure you’re adding it to the most appropriate of the choices shown below:

Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign (this thread)
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Campaign
Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Polls & Projections
Official U.S. Election – Humor, Commentary, Etc.

Examples of content appropriate for this thread:

McCain/Palin (and GOP) campaign speeches, interviews, clips, gaffes, sound bites, advertising, press releases, etc.

From the previous thread:
Luv2fly reply 393
You are double my posts. If this was an election you would have won.

Go back a few weeks and tally them up. Of course many of your ealier posts were just long strings of every cartoon you could cut and paste.

MBMBOS reply 394:
Once again, this birth certificate thing is just plain nutty.

As nutty as suggesting the Palin child is anyone elses other than hers. As a matter of fact that is just down right mean considering the child is not running for office but hey, when has that ever stopped some liberals?

AirCop reply 395
Never confuse RJ with the facts..

Or ask AirCop for timely information but you had better be prepared to present it because after a certain date as far as he is concerned it no longer is valid.

Let’s stamp out Voter Fraud in Texas - written by the Texas AG Greg Abbott in 2006

You do know that this is the 2008 election? That a man in northern Ohio has admitted to signing 73 different voter registration cards?

Gee, I'm left to wonder, if this is going to be such a landslide for Obama, why is he out hitting states that should be in the bag already?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1): You do know that this is the 2008 election?

You betcha! If you read the article, you can read right (seems someone else question you if you could or not) , voter fraud is an on-going problem in the lone star state.
http://www.alternet.org/election08/80589/
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/9DDA4658-73BB-4A4D-8D20-5EA98F8D75CD/
http://lonestarproject.net/archive/PeteOlsonVoterFraud.pdf
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-...es-were-they-democrats-ap-wont-say
ttp://arkansasgopwing.blogspot.com/2008/10/dead-voters-cast-ballots-in-texas.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ex.ART.State.Edition1.46c12d1.html
http://dccc.org/newsroom/entry/pete_...aud_confirmed_by_associated_press/

Looks like voter fraud is alive and well in Texas..   

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1): Luv2fly reply 393 You are double my posts. If this was an election you would have won. Go back a few weeks and tally them up. Of course many of your ealier posts were just long strings of every cartoon you could cut and paste.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 1): Let’s stamp out Voter Fraud in Texas - written by the Texas AG Greg Abbott in 2006 You do know that this is the 2008 election? That a man in northern Ohio has admitted to signing 73 different voter registration cards?

I see you go way back in time about me posting to prove your point, then you do not agree with history to prove your point. It must be nice to wake up each morning and have a choice of faces to wear that day!

Well McCain gets Cheney's endorsement! Well it does not get better than this.

Obama 'congratulates' McCain on Cheney endorsement

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/campaign.wrap/index.html

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 4): Well McCain gets Cheney's endorsement!

Let me tell you, that in itself could be reason enough to justify voting for anyone else but McCain! Although Sarah Palin is doing a fine job in scaring folks away from their camp...

Seriously, though, does anyone vote based on who endorses whom? I certainly don't pay attention to those endorsements, whether coming from Hollywood's elite, the media (which basically endorsed Obama in 2004), military leaders, or other politicians. Some are notable (like Powell's Obama endorsement) but at the end of the day the candidate's positions and realistic chances of doing what they promise carry more weight.

My internet connection has been wierding out the past week or so. I was listening to Thom Hartmann very briefly earlier this week. He had a guest on who talked about some group that was put together by Regan to oversee the markets. The main point of the guest was: if McCain wins, the corporations will take over the government, privatise everything, and all prices will skyrocket out of control. If Obama wins, this group set up by Regan will dump everything and send the country into a depression. I have not been able to load Thom Hartmann's web site to research this more.

BTW, according to the Oregonian newspaper, nearly 900,000 out of 2.5 million ballots in the state have been cast as of Saturday. I honestly thought we only had 2.5 million people total in Oregon!

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6): BTW, according to the Oregonian newspaper, nearly 900,000 out of 2.5 million ballots in the state have been cast as of Saturday. I honestly thought we only had 2.5 million people total in Oregon!

ACORN has an office in Portland. That might explain things.

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=14723

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7): ACORN has an office in Portland. That might explain things.

How?

Oregon had 3,750,000 people in 2007, so conservatively probably about 3.8 million now.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 8): How?

I was kidding. Maybe  

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 4): Well McCain gets Cheney's endorsement! Well it does not get better than this. Obama 'congratulates' McCain on Cheney endorsement http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/....html

Congratulations to John McCain & Sarah Palin for winning the endorsement of Dick Cheney.  
John McCain's 8 years of supporting the Bush/Cheney administration over 90% of the time has paid off.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11): Congratulations to John McCain & Sarah Palin for winning the endorsement of Dick Cheney

I really can't imagine anyone wanting Cheney's endorsement. Seriously. Does anyone like that guy? Talk about shady characters.

FruteBrute, referring to the earlier thread:-

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 391):
Or as Lincoln himself wrote, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it.."

If you study Lincoln slavery was a side issue, not "the" issue. Only thru rose colored glasses and the luxury of time can one look back and lament the "greatness" of Presidents of yore.

Must admit, I reckon Lincoln to have been a great president for precisely that reason. That he tackled the most pressing problems in a relentlessly practical way, whilst never losing sight of the need eventually to address the more idealistic 'bigger picture.'

Sure, he treated slavery as the less pressing problem - simply because it was. The Civil War was largely about what the South saw as economic exploitation by the North; and, from the Northern point of view, the fact that the USA could not afford to have a 'hostile foreign power' controlling the Mississippi, and cutting off both development of the plains and expansion westward. And Lincoln would have had no chance at all of winning the war (i.e. regaining control of the river) if he had driven the slave states which had remained in the Union (particularly Missouri and Kentucky) over to the Confederate side.

Isn't that what we'd all like to see in a president? The ability to manage the country's 'current affairs' in a practical and efficient way, while not losing sight of longer-term goals?

The other great thing about Lincoln was that he was such a great 'communicator' - usually in a very few words. That passage that you quote comes from a letter Lincoln wrote to Horace Greeley, the editor of the New York Tribune. I think that quoting the whole paragraph vividly illustrates Lincoln's ability to 'see both the wood and the trees':-

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

"I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free."

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

To me, that is the key to Lincoln's greatness. He saw himself as a servant of the Union, not its master. And he took things one step at a time, didn't neglect the things that HAD to be done in pursuit of lofty ideals that were not practical at the time. That's just my view, though; fully accept that you may see things differently.

Well Palin talks about the first 100 days and kicking in the plan to ends the wars we have in Irag and Iran! Yes she said Iran.

Here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9LofMCa8A

Scared out of my wits at the prospect of that woman getting anywhere near the presidency.......

People may recall a discussion we had about the two Gallup 'tracking' polls a few weeks ago? Tracking polls ask the same group of people about their voting intentions every few days. Gallup are actually running two; the 'traditional' poll, which tends to contain mostly 'veteran' vters, and the 'expanded' version, in which the voter sample was modified to include a higher proportion of 'first-time/occasional' voters.

When we discussed it then, the 'traditional' poll showed Obama's lead at 2%; the 'expanded' one showed it at 6%.

Both polls are now (November 1st.) showing the lead at 10%........

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

In case we needed further proof that Sarah Palin needs a little civics lesson:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-fears-med.html

"If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative campaigning, for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations," Palin told host Chris Plante, "then I don't know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media."

In case you were wondering, Governor, the First Amendment was created to ensure that the press would be free to make those claims without fear of being shut down by the government. The First Amendment also ensures that you have the right to make yourself look as stupid as you want, which you obviously took advantage of.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5): Seriously, though, does anyone vote based on who endorses whom? I certainly don't pay attention to those endorsements, whether coming from Hollywood's elite, the media (which basically endorsed Obama in 2004), military leaders, or other politicians. Some are notable (like Powell's Obama endorsement) but at the end of the day the candidate's positions and realistic chances of doing what they promise carry more weight.

It depends on who the person is. If it's a pure celebrity like George Clooney or Curt Schilling, most people don't give a crap. But if it's someone who has a record of being involved in the issues and whose opinion is respected, like Colin Powell or Henry Kissinger, then it does carry more weight. Those are the sort of endorsements that give people the fact check - yes, the candidates policy on a certain topic does make sense, and isn't just talk with nothing to back it up.

-Mir

Looks like we'll need a separate thread for the Palin campaign for the next few days. It seems as though the Governor has cut the Senator loose.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2): You betcha! If you read the article, you can read right (seems someone else question you if you could or not) , voter fraud is an on-going problem in the lone star state.

An article, published in early 2006, that denotes things that have happened in the past, doesn't mention political parties involved save Lyndon Johnson, and somehow that relates to the 2008 election. Join the group stretching if you please.

As usual, you have to wade through the crap to find the real story in AirCops links.

Link 1....Now a progressive internet site would not be the teensiest bit bias would it? Aside from that, it is not a voter fraud case in that someone is trying to vote multiple time in the same or different location. It is a techno violation in how they were delivered to the ballot box.

The second link shows the election board doing what is supposed to be doing. Looking at and matching records to find people who are not supposed to vote, like dead people. There is no accusation that dead people are actually voting, just that their names are still on the record.

The 3rd link is about possible voter fraud in Conneticut in 2003. Texas is big but not quite that big.

The fourth and fifth links are blogs which is the next best thing to taking Andrea Kents word on something and

The 6th link is again about techno violations of the election law, not about actual voter fraud as the story relates to a court settlement wherein the AG of Texas won't go after people who do not sign the proper documentation when they deliver ballots for older people that are too infirm to get to the polling place.

Finally the 7th link is another story about Pete Olson who is running as a republican in Nick Lampsons district on the south side of Houston. It is the former Tom Delay district and as they are in the national campaign, they are running against the past, in this case Delay by trying to tie Pete Olson to him by way of a charge of voting in two places in one election. The problems are, number one neither vote took place in Texas and number 2 even the local news outlets see a red herring when it is shoved in their face. This isn't the first time the DNC down here has stepped over the line and had to have their ads pulled.

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/20..._bend_sun/news/sws-_fb_dccc_ad.txt

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...mpson-attack-ad.14586bef7.html?npc

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/6081146.html

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...69146&rss=rss-ktrk-article-6469146

Even the registar in Conneticut cannot say for certain that Olson voted there, and no one is saying he voted in 2003 here in Texas. I'm sure that voter fraud of some sort does happen here in Texas, but so far in this election cycle it has not been shown to anywhere near the problem that it is in Ohio, Nevada, and some other states where ACORN is most active.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3): I see you go way back in time about me posting to prove your point, then you do not agree with history to prove your point. It must be nice to wake up each morning and have a choice of faces to wear that day!

The comment was about postings about the election. There are 8 McCain/Palin threads. Only one for Obama/Biden. Only one for humor. Do you want me to start counting? I will have time today while I watch football.

Still the best endorsement of all for John McCain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8


Wonder why the Obama campaign hasn't gone after him like they did Joe the plumber?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19): Wonder why the Obama campaign hasn't gone after him like they did Joe the plumber?

Yeah Joe the plumber he is a catch! Only reinforces the lack of vetting that the McCain camp is guilty of.

Like Joe the Plumber ???
How many ordinary Patriotric Americans , have convictions
For Domestic Violence , in front of Children
Wurzelbacher , Joseph Docket # DVA0400222.
Or 2 Divorces involving Battered Shelters - Domestic Abuse.
Jennifer - 1997 -Docket # DR 19970476
& Kimberley - Divorce 2007 - Had to seek shelter -Battered Home.
ain camp is guilty of.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 20): Like Joe the Plumber ??? How many ordinary Patriotric Americans , have convictions For Domestic Violence , in front of Children Wurzelbacher , Joseph Docket # DVA0400222. Or 2 Divorces involving Battered Shelters - Domestic Abuse. Jennifer - 1997 -Docket # DR 19970476 & Kimberley - Divorce 2007 - Had to seek shelter -Battered Home. ain camp is guilty of.

Since when do you have to pass an FBI background check to ask a presidential candidate a g&%^amned question???

And let's not forget that Obama himself would not pass such a background check. He would never be able to be hired by the FBI, CIA, most police forces, or any other sensitive position, because a background check would immediately flag his writings, statements and his associations as risk factors.

It's amazing that no such background check is required for the presidency.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Not really a great endorsement since it's one guy's opinion and nothing more. Plenty of soldiers who have served in Iraq also say the war was a mistake - I guess they are disrespecting their own sacrifice?? Sorry, "Dear Mr. Obama", your opinion is wrong. Calling a war a mistake does not automatically equivocate to disrespect for those that have served and/or lost their lives. They are not dependent variables and if you regard them as such, you are a victim of overly simplistic thinking. If he has a problem with it, he can take it up with the WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vets in my family who also say this war was a mistake.

Caught the latest installment of the Doha Debates on the BBC this morning - a very tough debate as always. This time the question was whether or not McCain and/or Obama would be good for the region. Of the people in attendance, they did a poll at the end regarding their confidence in the next American President. The results were quite negative. 83% said McCain would have a negative impact on the region due to militarism, and 72% said Obama would likely go on to injure the Palestinian peace process as his past comments/flip-flopping already have. Just goes to show how low our stock is over there among the masses. Several people made the comment, "Americans need to get their own house in order before they presume to tell us how we should live." Tough luck.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21): Since when do you have to pass an FBI background check to ask a presidential candidate a g&%^amned question??? And let's not forget that Obama himself would not pass such a background check. He would never be able to be hired by the FBI, CIA, most police forces, or any other sensitive position, because a background check would immediately flag his writings, statements and his associations as risk factors. It's amazing that no such background check is required for the presidency.

Here is the kicker he asked Obama and Obama answered then the McCain camp rangled him to there side in what I am sure was/is to make the Obama campaign look bad, well talk about ending up with egg on there face. McCain talk about the moral fiber of people who Obama pal around with, maybe they should look at the ones they hang around with.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19): Wonder why the Obama campaign hasn't gone after him like they did Joe the plumber?

A.) The Obama campaign did not "go after him".
B.) Joe The Plumber had pulled another stunt like this earlier and phoned it in to a talk radio show.
C.) Sen. McCain mentioned this guy 20 times in the 3rd debate. 20 times!
D.) Organizations like Fact Check, and other outlets fact check, vet, and research all that is said and claimed in those debates. Only after Senator McCain's constant parading of this guy, did the media then do its job to look into him. Guess what? They guy is a deadbeat, a liar, and a charlatan trying to politicize something. He's a fraud. He's not a plumber, nor is he buying the business he works for, that doesn't make $250,000 as "Joe" said. And that's exactly what the right's "tax cut" mantra for small business is all about. FANTASY!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21): And let's not forget that Obama himself would not pass such a background check. He would never be able to be hired by the FBI, CIA, most police forces, or any other sensitive position, because a background check would immediately flag his writings, statements and his associations as risk factors.

Perhaps in your strange little world. Unless you are privy to information, something very serious, that has been kept from the public eye, your suggestion is ridiculous and utterly without merit. I don't know where you get the idea that his "writings, statements and his associations" would result in a rejection of a security clearance, but I can tell you as someone who actually works in SC investigations that you either have been reading too much Joe McCarthy, or your political ideology has caused you to become irrational and alienated from reality.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7): ACORN has an office in Portland. That might explain things.

Well, no, it does not explain anything. We have a teensy little office within state government dedicated to verifying each and every citizen is eligible to vote, then sending out ballots accordingly. Groups like ACORN, BY LAW, must send their voter registrations to the secretary of state. We have voter registration cards in our phone books. Yet, again, by Oregon law, all applications must be verified by the secretary of state's office. Which is why I have never understood this whole ACORN "controversy." Does the media think we are really that uneducated? Oh, wait.....

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 20): Yeah Joe the plumber he is a catch!

Yet the fat lady in the Obamamercial who can't afford to buy enough snack food for her kids is? I notice you left the veteran alone. Go ahead, make fun of someone who gave a limb in the service of his country, I dare you.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22): Not really a great endorsement since it's one guy's opinion and nothing more.

Every endorsement unless it comes from an orginazation is "one guy's opinion". If there are so many who don't endorse McCain because of his support for the war, where are their video endorsements of Sen. Obama? What makes this one so striking is that the man lost a limb and still believes Iraq was the right thing to do.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 24): .) The Obama campaign did not "go after him".

Sure they didn't. When does Santa get to the malls this year so I can go give him my list?

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 24): He's not a plumber,

He is a plumber. In Ohio you don't need a license to be a plumber.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 24): nor is he buying the business he works for

He said quite clearly in the tape that he wants to buy the business, not that he is in the process of doing so.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 24): that doesn't make $250,000 as "Joe" said

Yet. So when you buy a business your aim should not be to grow it but just have it hold it's own?

Here are some things the 'liberal media' hasn't talked about.


What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, following the debate, including a three month-old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his college graduating class?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan - 20crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter or use a blackberry?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to publicly display a serious anger management problem?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?

And, think of this - the candidates' educational backgrounds:

Barack Obama:
Columbia
University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations. Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science. Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world.

You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected a reality, if the tables were turned, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28): You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected a reality, if the tables were turned, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

And right there you answer your own question. Even with all the negatives you dropped on Sen. McCain while leaving out the vast majority of postives, and even with all the positives you dropped on Sen. Obama while leaving out some huge negatives, Sen. Obama has not been able to seal the deal. When it comes down to the measure of the men, in polling but not in actual votes, on a small percentage feel he is better qualified and when the votes are counted there is still the very real possibility that Sen. Obama will still not seal the deal and lose the election.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 27): He is a plumber. In Ohio you don't need a license to be a plumber.

I already pointed this out to you in a pevious thread before and you chose to ignore it, yes he does in the county he is operating in he does.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 31): Quoting RJdxer (Reply 27): He is a plumber. In Ohio you don't need a license to be a plumber. I already pointed this out to you in a pevious thread before and you chose to ignore it, yes he does in the county he is operating in he does.

And before you get your boxers in a twist once again is the link.

http://www.newsnet5.com/money/17737923/detail.html

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 31): yes he does in the county he is operating in he does.

But not in the City of Toledo or any of the townships therin.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.../20081016/NEWS09/810160418/-1/NEWS

According to Lucas County Building Inspection records, A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, and one with the City of Toledo, but would not be allowed to work in Lucas County outside of Toledo without a county license.

So as long as he is working under the supervison of a licensed plumber with that company in the city of Toledo he is good. If he wants to work on his own the situation changes.

Mr. Joseph said Mr. Wurzelbacher could only legally work in the townships, but not in any municipality in Lucas County or elsewhere in the country.

So even the union guy who is blatantly pro Obama agees the he could work in Lucas County in the townships of which there are several since I used to work there myself.


And that does not even begin to touch on the question if he buys the business but does not go out into the field does he need a personal plumbing license? A contractors license yes but does he need a plumbing license?

So nice try but wrong again.

Joe the plumbers 15 minutes of fame is over.
Anyhow, his taxes wouldn't go up under President Obama anyway.
Adjusting the tax rate to what it was during the Reagan Presidency is hardly 'Communist' or 'Socialist'.

Did you ever teach yoga? Cause you can twist and turn the facts better than anyone I ever saw.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 27): Go ahead, make fun of someone who gave a limb in the service of his country, I dare you.

You mean like the way the Republican jackals went after Max Cleland not that long ago?

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32): And before you get your boxers in a twist once again is the link. http://www.newsnet5.com/money/17737923/detail.html

It's always amusing to watch the right use loopholes, justifications, and long winded "what ifs", when it's one of their guys, yet were apoplexic over someone asking the definition of "is", is.

Oh well, they have 4 years or more of being in the wilderness. Perhaps they can use that time to figure out how they lost everything they had.

R.I.P. - Neo-Con Conservatism 1994 - 2008.

Well first Joe is a no show and now we find out -

McCain Buses in 4,000 Kids to Fill 6,000 Seats

http://www.drudge.com/news/114365/mccain-buses-4000-kids-fill-6000

I this an election run or a comedy script?

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 37): McCain Buses in 4,000 Kids to Fill 6,000 Seats

LOL......


I heard on a report today that only 22% of Jews will vote for McCain !! I find that hard to believe. Is that true?

http://www.thegreatschlep.com/

[Edited 2008-11-02 12:41:10]

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 38): I heard on a report today that only 22% of Jews will vote for McCain !! I find that hard to believe. Is that true?

Jews tend to vote Democratic, although we do not vote as a block, of course. For most Jews, a major issue is religious freedom. Our religion is quite strict in that we do not proslyetize to non-Jews. Ever.

I think that for me, when I was a practicing Jew, I voted Democrat because I was very afraid of what the Christian Right was up to. I feared their rule for my religious freedom and a lot of Jews felt the same way.

Now that I'm not a practicing Jew, I still fear the Christian Right and my freedom of --or from-- religion. And believe me, with the things that the GOP has tried to do since I was of voting age, I am far more afraid of fascism than I am of socialism.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34): Anyhow, his taxes wouldn't go up under President Obama anyway.

Assuming his income stayed the same.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 35): Did you ever teach yoga? Cause you can twist and turn the facts better than anyone I ever saw.

The facts read for what they are, the facts. Are you going to deny he can operate as a plumber under supervision in Toledo or on his own in the townships in Lucas County without a license?

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 36): You mean like the way the Republican jackals went after Max Cleland not that long ago?

They were not making fun of him as I dared her to do.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 36): R.I.P. - Neo-Con Conservatism 1994 - 2008.

I wouldn't count those chickens just yet. Word is filtering out that in a lot of these polls, 80% of the people contacted won't participate. Also, a number of campaign strategists have consistently stated that if Sen. Obama doesn't enter election day with a solid 10 point lead int he polls then anything is possible. Although I still think it would be a long shot for McCain to win, unless the polling numbers open up dramatically before Tuesday, anything is possible. On top of all that your definition of neo-conservative must be a broad as the proverbial side of a barn since McCain is anything but a neo-conservative.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39): Jews tend to vote Democratic

Oh ok , thats interesting. On another note I just saw an interview where an election officer said that some people have tried ''tricks'' at the polling stations. Putting up signs saying if you have a warrant on you then you will be arrested on the spot. I guess its just scare tactics.

Its amazing that people have qued for upto 4hours to vote. Is that a failure of the system? I have never had to que to vote and I vote at every election.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Word is filtering out that in a lot of these polls, 80% of the people contacted won't participate. Also, a number of campaign strategists have consistently stated that if Sen. Obama doesn't enter election day with a solid 10 point lead int he polls then anything is possible.

Source please....

Quoting AirCop (Reply 42): Source please....

Gosh can I use blogs?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 27): Every endorsement unless it comes from an orginazation is "one guy's opinion". If there are so many who don't endorse McCain because of his support for the war, where are their video endorsements of Sen. Obama? What makes this one so striking is that the man lost a limb and still believes Iraq was the right thing to do.

To your first sentence: exactly. Hence why I've not commented on any endorsements thus far since they're all essentially the same. As for video endorsements by soldiers against the war, I'd say they have better things to do than go on harping about the war (unlike Mr. Obama). Generally, people should only be bringing up the war in a negative light when defenders of the war make out-and-out stupid statements like "this has been a great moment for Iraq" or "President Bush's legacy will be positive thanks to the war."

I think any American would appreciate the fact the guy lost a limb for us but that doesn't automatically mean we should accept his point of view. My great uncle has three Purple Hearts from the Pacific, including two hits from snipers on Guadalcanal. His view of the Iraq war is very simple: "I volunteered to fight because we were attacked. Iraq didn't attack us and never had the ability to. Let those people fight for themselves if they want to change their country."

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): On top of all that your definition of neo-conservative must be a broad as the proverbial side of a barn since McCain is anything but a neo-conservative.

I don't see how anyone could call McCain a neocon. He's just a liiiiiiiiittle before their time. All the more reason it's questionable that he has neocon operatives like Charlie Black advising his campaign.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28): Here are some things the 'liberal media' hasn't talked about.

Do we really want to play that game?

The media doesn't talk about Biden's cockamamie Iraqi three-way partition plan, or make him explain why he changed his mind on it.

The media doesn't talk about Biden's substantial disagreements on foreign policy vis a vis Obama - have they magically come together somehow on those issues? How do we even know?

The media was quick to punish Huckabee and Romney for their faith-based beliefs, but the same standard has not been applied to Obama. One of the huge pieces missing from the Wright episode was not the question of Wright himself - pastors come and go and they ALL say ridiculous things regardless of the political spectrum - but the fact Obama left his longtime congregation for political reasons. I thought a church congregation is a community one belongs to and calls home? Obama just turns his back on them because of the pastor's political liabilities? Give me a break! That one was called by Obama's handlers, not Obama. Way to stand up for something Barack. The media totally let that one go.

Where has the media been on Obama's huge gaffe with Israeli policy? I'm in complete agreement with him on Afghanistan and the mess in Iraq, as well as the change in direction needed in American multilateralism in general. But what's with this flip-flopping nonsense on Israel? NOBODY has called him out on it. Remember when he said this??

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided"

WTF was that? The media swept it under the rug when it was clear he was pandering to Zionist lobbies that both the Democrats and Republicans need to win any kind of support. How about standing up and saying this policy is ludicrous and can never lead to lasting peace? How about calling the Israelis out on their own failings of so-called democracy?? Nice one Barack. One minute he's praising the Palestinian spirit and the next he's denying them one of their most important negotiating points that's at the heart of their very existence. Which Obama show up on Israeli policy? How do we know??

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/05/1117964.aspx

The local news here just commented that Palin attracted roughly 4,000+ today in her rally in Ohio. Obama attracted roughly 60,000+ here in Cleveland currently going on right now. Though Obama does have an opening act, The Boss, A.K.A. Bruce Springsteen. Now I am sure McCain and Palin could get an opening act, though Lawrence Welk is dead, just ike there run for office of the President.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 42): Source please....

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Word is filtering out that in a lot of these polls, 80% of the people contacted won't participate.

Filtering means that it has yet to be confirmed. If Obama loses you can bet that if it is true it will surface as confirmed. I don't use blogs as sources for anything other places to resource. I definitely won't post a blog as a source.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Also, a number of campaign strategists have consistently stated that if Sen. Obama doesn't enter election day with a solid 10 point lead int he polls then anything is possible.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95430213

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/

1

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39): I voted Democrat because I was very afraid of what the Christian Right was up to. I feared their rule for my religious freedom and a lot of Jews felt the same way.

That's funny... As a Protestant Christian, that is one reason I vote Democrat!

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44): The media was quick to punish Huckabee and Romney for their faith-based beliefs, but the same standard has not been applied to Obama.

Why, then, do some still believe Obama is Muslim? Why do some pundits still use his middle name? Why was there a whole big stink about Rev. Wright (a Christian)?

As for McCain, I never heard anything from the mainstream media (read: liberal media for those of you keeping score) about McCain having people on his staff like lobbiests for the nation of Georgia or from a PR firm who were working on putting a positive spin on the junta in Myanmar. No one has held McCain's feet to the fire for divorcing his first wife after having numerous affairs behind her back. "But, she was in a car accident..." Remember the vows "for better or worse?" I guess those don't apply to McCain.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 47): No one has held McCain's feet to the fire for divorcing his first wife after having numerous affairs behind her back. "But, she was in a car accident..." Remember the vows "for better or worse?" I guess those don't apply to McCain.

Oh for f*ck's sake, who cares about that? We are so judgmental about the personal lives of others - who REALLY cares other than people stuck in the past? Same thing as the Clinton escapade - immaterial and NOT worth mentioning. Marriages fail and people cheat, for reasons both justified and not, get over it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 47): Why, then, do some still believe Obama is Muslim? Why do some pundits still use his middle name?

Because they're idiots.

Rev. Wright is a different issue. The focus on the story was entirely wrong in my view - it's not so much what Wright said or didn't say, or whether Obama repudiated him or not - it's the fact that a supposedly religious man TURNED HIS BACK on his congregation of 20 years for POLITICAL reasons. Where's the loyalty? Where's the sense of community? That's the real story there - and the media gave him a free pass.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Assuming his income stayed the same.

When your income goes up, so does your taxes. It's always been that way and always will. Besides, Joe the Plumber will never get to that income bracket until he gets his license. Also, he doesn't have a right to complain about taxes since he hasn't paid his own.
Most plumbers don't make $250,000 anyway.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44): I thought a church congregation is a community one belongs to and calls home?

Not necessarily.
He chose running for the White House over sticking with his crazy pastor. Smart move on his part.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44): Remember when he said this?? "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided"

Who cares?
Israel has and always will be an ally of the USA. If Obama was a threat to USA/Israel relations, AIPAC and the ADL would have called him out long ago and he would not be the Democratic nominee.
Not to mention, Sarah Palin has much closer ties to anti-Semitic trash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7-qzz8_7RE

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49): If Obama was a threat to USA/Israel relations, AIPAC and the ADL would have called him out long ago and he would not be the Democratic nominee.

That's the whole point. He was singing the tune of "Palestinian suffering" then AIPAC complained and suddenly his campaign veered the ship to the right and said "Oh, we need to clarify - he meant they were suffering under the leadership of Hamas, not because of Israeli policies" and then weeks later came the stupid comment I quoted. Likely the reason in the Doha Debates on BBC yesterday, 83% said they didn't trust McCain on Mideast policy and 70-some percent said they thought Obama was untrustworthy on peace in Israel. The region as a whole thinks Obama is already a disappointment for his pandering to Zionists.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49): Who cares? Israel has and always will be an ally of the USA.

Those of us who feel our relationship with Israel is too one-sided (i.e. heavily in THEIR favor) and ultimately poisonous to the long-term interests of the United States. They haven't been held to account for anything over the last 8 years, and it looks like Obama will be more of the same.