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mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:14 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 49):
If the claims are true, then they needed to have exposed it earlier. They had an obligation to do it in fact.

If true,, would it have changed your mind?
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 50):
If true,, would it have changed your mind?

First, I didn’t vote for either Obama or McCain, so the short answer is no.

But since Palin is a true reformer, she’s an outsider and that scares the shit out of most of the DC establishment, on BOTH sides of the aisle (as we saw from the wussies like George Will, Peggy Noonan, etc who threw her under the bus). But she has a draw as a normal person who is in many ways more qualified than the Ivy Leaguers who have gone after her.

The media failed so magnificently in this campaign, why should anyone believe anything NOW? Especially when you get into sour grapes, axe-grinding, armchair QB’ing, etc.

I question the motive and the content. But Palin will be on the vanguard in years to come in some form or another and we need more like her, frankly. I wish there were an independent that would garner that kind of attention.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18003
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 51):
I question the motive and the content.

It's actually very rare for Bill O'Reilly to let any reporter go on about something for ten minutes without interrupting profusely...I'm very curious about the motives as well. In his segment with FOX's chief political correspondent dishing dirt on Palin, it was just non-stop dragging her through the mud. What else could it be other than blame with sour grapes on the side? Pretty damn low.
 
Charles79
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 52):
It's actually very rare for Bill O'Reilly to let any reporter go on about something for ten minutes without interrupting profusely...I'm very curious about the motives as well. In his segment with FOX's chief political correspondent dishing dirt on Palin, it was just non-stop dragging her through the mud. What else could it be other than blame with sour grapes on the side? Pretty damn low.

That's what it sounded like. I actually watched the O'Reilly show yesterday and when he did the piece on Palin it sounded more like they were looking for a scapegoat. Again, I hope that McCain would come out and put a stop on it, it's ridiculous that they would bring her in with high hopes and when it didn't go their way then trampled on her. It's not fair and sets a bad precedent for anyone in the future contemplating becoming a candidate's VP pick.
 
AirportSeven
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:08 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 49):
But it’s nice that the left can’t get over the appeal of Palin and continue in the sheer character assassination of this woman. The hateful responses are more illuminating of those who are doing it than they are about Palin. Thou doth protesteth too much.

Palin appealed to the bigots and the bitter mouth breathers on the far-right of the GOP. It's funny that when the truth is told about the woman, it sounds like character assassination to your ears. What doth that sayeth about her character?

Don't blame somebody else because Sarah Palin was an incredibly undesirable VP choice who wound up being a drag on the ticket. McCain wanted Lieberman to begin with. How did Palin get on the ticket in the first place?

A lot of people were scared, though not of Palin, but about what it would say about America if she held a national elected office. Someone with an entitlement complex who has no world-view and no experience outside of the narrow confines of Alaska would be dangerous with too much power.

In the end, though, she turned enough people off to the republican ticket that McCain got buried on Tuesday. He's at one of his mansions cooking ribs and probably pretty relieved that he won't have to deal with a loose cannon in his administration.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3670
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 39):
So we continue to talk about this woman why?

Seriously, everyone's hate with (D) person or (R) person is getting very old on this board. Obama won, Democrats control congress, so why in the hell are all of you still so bent out of shape over this?

Who cares anymore?

Exactly, I was pissed yesterday that Obama won. Today, I don't care, its over it happened. Unless someone comes up with a time machine quick, nothing can be done.

And, as a side note, after reading all these political topics in the last week, I'm glad that only Americans can vote in the election. Because, if we let all these foreigners do what they think is best for us, we'd be 10x further in debt.

-DiamondFlyer
 
SkyyKat
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:58 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:37 pm

Africa is not one big country???  eyepopping  Ya'll suuure bout dat? dag on it!  hissyfit 

Oh's wells. I'ms Goin huntin an i's Gonna shot mes a buck!
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:40 pm



Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
...is about to be known.

Same for Obama my friend ... there is going to be alot coming out that we did not know. The trash and smash will continue saddly.

See here is the deal with Palin, McCain was thinking that regular independents who did not opose Obama because of his story would like Palin. Like Obama , she comes from nowhere, although she actually had paying jobs and worked her way on her own ..the stories are similiar. The fact that Dems left wing put the knife to her neck within minutes of the announcment clearly tells that the Dems thought it also.

Clearly , we can see how Sen Obama's background , associations and all the "junk in the trunk" was marginalized by the media. With the breaking of any story came the howl of racism and the immdetiate call to " get on to the issues". With Palin this was not the case , personal stories were talked about and discussed as issues including her children. It was open season on her so to speak , and nothing was spared. Teams of DNC Lawyers hit the ground in anchorage with dirt digging shovels in hand and subpoena's at the ready.

Meanwhile not one reporter went to Bill Ayres , Rev Wright , Farakan , Rezco, ACORN , Fanny Freddy operation in Chicago,the mortgage company in Chicago, his bother in Kenya , His Grandmother in Kenya , any of his professors or friends from college . How is that ? Obama has no one from his past ? No one .. we nerver heard a word from teachers , professors friends any of it. It was all in his convieniently packaged book. No questions needed.! (Thanks to Tom Dashall media efforts and publisher)

The Press never got passed the abortion issue with Palin.... that was it. Every Liberal womens organization immediatly turned guns and fired without even asking or careing about her story at all. Hillary Clinton cried about sexism because Obama actually pushed her a little bit on issues ... meanwhile Palin had broadside HE shells hitting her and nobody said a word.

Its so obvious.... but who cares at this point.
 
Confuscius
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 32):
I learnt that Africa was a continent when I was about 8 years old in school.

To be fair to Gov. Palin, Africa can't be seen from her house in Alaska.
 
SpeedBirdA380
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:57 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 55):
And, as a side note, after reading all these political topics in the last week, I'm glad that only Americans can vote in the election. Because, if we let all these foreigners do what they think is best for us, we'd be 10x further in debt.

And as a side note after reading all these political topics and the comments of some of the Republican's on this site its no wonder your party just got kicked out of office by the majority of Americans.
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
Clearly , we can see how Sen Obama's background , associations and all the "junk in the trunk" was marginalized by the media. With the breaking of any story came the howl of racism and the immdetiate call to " get on to the issues". With Palin this was not the case , personal stories were talked about and discussed as issues including her children. It was open season on her so to speak , and nothing was spared. Teams of DNC Lawyers hit the ground in anchorage with dirt digging shovels in hand and subpoena's at the ready.

You nailed it here!

Interestingly, a gentleman (missed the name, Eric something) is on Glenn Beck’s show now talking about Project Leper…

Paraphrasing…

It’s a concerted effort finally to expose those who are smearing Palin and get rid of the losers within the Republican partisan establishment. There are a lot of folks from the campaign that are already angling for jobs in 2012. Old guard establishment wants people like Palin in the base, but not to lead…they’re threatened, hence the character assassinations. As he just said, you have to go to war with your base. McCain never was a conservative, so he picked Palin to solve that but then threw her under the bus. Their strategy to keep her under wraps for the first few weeks was disastrous.

Nicole Wallace, PR rep for Palin, is one smearing Palin. She also handled the Bush PR job, so you can surmise how good she is based on results. LOL Steve Schmidt, who ran McCain’s campaign is another one. The very strategy of trying to recruit the ‘mushy middle’ as he called it, is fatally flawed…you win with your base, the true conservatives, and you build a coalition from there to get a majority.

The McCain campaign didn’t want to talk about Ayers (which they should have), and Palin went rogue to put it into the consciousness. That pissed Wallace off. Palin at least had the smarts to NOT be a total lapdog and acquiesce to what was a horribly run campaign—after all, if Palin does have any other ambitions, she needed a sense of self-survival to not tank like McCain Same thing for Joe the Plumber—McCain got traction when they started working on that, which was what Palin also went rogue on. The McCain campaign DIDN’T even want to put that out there.

So yeah, in light of hearing some of this stuff too (more of which I’m sure we’ll read), it’s quite clear that this is all a hackjob.
 
AirportSeven
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:08 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:50 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 53):
Again, I hope that McCain would come out and put a stop on it, it's ridiculous that they would bring her in with high hopes and when it didn't go their way then trampled on her.

John McCain didn't even know who Sarah Palin was before he was told she would be his running mate. He rarely spoke to her on the campaign trail. Her only appeal was to the fundies in the GOP who hated McCain to begin with. She stopped campaigning for McCain/Palin and started campaigning for herself two weeks before the election. Her bitter and divisive rhetoric was off-script and her selection as his VP running mate sank McCain's 2008 campaign, which was his last shot at the White House. The irony of this situation is that his 2000 presidential bid was doomed by the dirty tricks of Karl Rove and the George W. Bush campaign, and his 2008 campaign was derailed by another republican beholden to ultra-conservatives.

I would imagine that McCain is a man who feels more than a little bit betrayed by his party and it's supporters. Why in the world would he care what comes out about her now?
 
JakeOrion
Posts: 1090
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:13 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:53 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 46):
Which begs the question.. What happened to our favorite tax-dodger entrepreneur Joe D. Plumber?

Why even bring this up?

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 47):
Again, the Republican media/party is the one who keeps talking about her, not the left...

One source and its automatically the entire "Republican media?" Give me a break. That must mean Breitbart must be ultra conservative for even putting this up:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...1105214913.k5rna1c2&show_article=1

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 47):
...besides, as some have already mentioned, it's a free country, you don't want to talk about her then don't come into this thread.

Then how else am I going to voice/defend my opinion if I'm not welcomed to the thread? Works both ways my friend.

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 48):
Instead they look at why the team lost and try to figure out what happened.

For football, you have to make changes right away to prevent another loss the following week. For this, its four years from now. The reasons why the Republicans lost this time may not be the same reasons the next time around. There really is no way to predict the promises for the next election, its too far away.

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 48):
Well some people enjoy discussing these things.

But this isn't a discussion. This is more Sarah Palin bashing. Plain and simple.

Quoting Slider (Reply 49):
But it’s nice that the left can’t get over the appeal of Palin and continue in the sheer character assassination of this woman.

But according to some, its the "right" that is bashing Palin for the Republican loss.

Republicans didn't have any ground since they became wishy-washy since the 04' elections. More concerned with getting invited to parties rather than focus the real issues at hand. The Republicans in office right now are not Republicans, they are something else under the name of Republican. The last true Republican in office was Reagan, and unfortunately, looks like those types of Republicans come once every 80 years, the last being Teddy Roosevelt.

[Edited 2008-11-06 08:55:24]
 
stlgph
Posts: 11710
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:13 pm



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 16):
Where do you get your news sources from? Someone from the campaign in September went
to buy clothes for her. That cost about $150K. However, that person also bought clothes that
did not fit her, so about 1/3 of those were sent back. And moreover, another third of those
clothes were not even worn by Palin, so she ended up wearing about 1/3 of that $150K
wardrobe. This was confirmed by the McCain campaign. Outright scandalous!!!!

She, herself, was seen coming in and out of Neiman's & Sak's in downtown Minneapolis during the RNC.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 26):
I like Bobby Jindal, he has a bright future in the Party if the conservatives will embrace him.

he's already making his first efforts for 2012.
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:35 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 62):
But according to some, its the "right" that is bashing Palin for the Republican loss.

Sadly, yes it’s internecine cannibalization. And why? Who benefits? Think about it...the Republican establishment has to keep its grip on power. Palin is a threat to that.

Some interesting stories here too…

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11052008...palin_plays_coy_on_2012_137230.htm
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/11...ewsweek_sarah_palin_sailed_in.html

You know, the towel story is classic…just so unassuming, not part of the machine.

And interestingly enough, isn’t it strange that the McCain campaign has now spent MORE time attacking Palin than they did going after Obama and Ayers, Rashidi, ACORN, etc?
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:42 pm

If she has any plan to run for office again outside of Alaska, let's hope she gets a little intellectual curiosity and perhaps a degree in global relations and/or history.
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:16 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 51):
But since Palin is a true reformer, she%u2019s an outsider and that scares the shit out of most of the DC establishment, on BOTH sides of the aisle (as we saw from the wussies like George Will, Peggy Noonan, etc who threw her under the bus). But she has a draw as a normal person who is in many ways more qualified than the Ivy Leaguers who have gone after her.

No, she is a true opportunist that saw an ideal opportunity to be labeled a reformer by going after an obviously corrupt member of her own party. Every political step she has ever taken has been driven by personal ambition and opportunism. When those coincided with 'reform' or 'being a maverick' she gladly adopted the title, but a full review of her record shows ego and ambition drove almost all decisions. Add to that the sense of entitlement each position of power gave her (family travel at state expense, family clothes a party expense), and you begin to realize just how dangerous this woman could be in a position of true power.
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:28 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 66):
No, she is a true opportunist that saw an ideal opportunity to be labeled a reformer by going after an obviously corrupt member of her own party. Every political step she has ever taken has been driven by personal ambition and opportunism. When those coincided with 'reform' or 'being a maverick' she gladly adopted the title, but a full review of her record shows ego and ambition drove almost all decisions. Add to that the sense of entitlement each position of power gave her (family travel at state expense, family clothes a party expense), and you begin to realize just how dangerous this woman could be in a position of true power.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

I think the US (no, the world) dodged a bullet with this lady. I suspect there'll be more revelations as time goes on because there's obviously lots of disaffected folks in the Republican Party who are more than happy to tell tales. Some of it will be BS, but where there's smoke there's fire.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 66):
and you begin to realize just how dangerous this woman could be in a position of true power.

Its a highway driven by every politician including Sen Obama. The left wing has dimissed his associations completly as merely characters on his political journey. Frankly ,give me a person who sees fighting her own party as way to power ..rather than hanging out with America hateing nobodies to score points.

Why do you make the assumption about Palin's intentions and turn blind to those of Sen Obama. I think I know .
 
Superfly
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:50 pm

BN747:
Excellent thread!

You know Dubya thought that Africa was a country too. This is more proof that Sarah Palin was Dubya in lipstick.

Quoting Slider (Reply 64):
You know, the towel story is classic…just so unassuming, not part of the machine.

I really want to see those pictures now!  yes 
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2366
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:05 pm

Here's what you closet socialists don't know about Sarah Palin.


She was courted by John McCain to be "Febreze" to his smelly pile of dog poop. She was responsible for 80% of his election result....period. To say anything less would be ignorant.
Hell, 2 days after the republican party lost, the ravenous idiocy on this board against her is still going strong.

The republicans threw this election, took a dive in other words. The still hidden world government thought they could make more headway (in destroying America) by having Obama in office.....thusly it is so. Once Palin caught wind of this, she decided (and rightfully so) to go "rogue". Even the judas goat "Faux News Network" are hammering on her. That is how deep this national corruption goes.

She'll be back.....and not as some lap-dog 2nd-seat to corrupt neocons. They hate her as much as you people do. Don't you get it yet? She's the great white hope of the -true- paleoconservative party. One group of filthy liberals leave the WH on 1-20-09, and a new group takes their place. That's change we all need.  Yeah sure
 
rwsea
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:07 pm

In fairness to Sarah Palin, I don't think she's a "bad lady" or that she's a moron. Think about it from her perspective ... she probably never dreamed she'd be a VP candidate and all of a sudden here's McCain on the phone offering her the VP spot. She accepted, out of what I believe was loyalty to the party rather than some sort of political agenda, and was thrown into the spotlight overnight. I think her only mistake was accepting a nomination for which she was grossly unqualified.

The real blame here lies with McCain - he picked someone in a short-sighted attempt to pander for more votes, but without thinking through the implications (e.g. someone with zero experience could be VP and likely President). The next mistake was sending her out to make nasty attacks (Bill Ayers, the PLO guy, etc.) given that she had no credibility and that really wasn't suited to her style. "Controversies" such as the clothing issue are just smoke and mirrors.

In short, blame McCain for a pandering choice that we ill-conceived. I certainly didn't support the McCain/Palin ticket, but I do think she was caught in the crossfire. That said, she needs to seriously hit the books hard (and have a heightened level of intellectual curiosity regarding geopolitics) if she wants to run for office on a national scale again (and that includes running for Senate).
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:13 pm



Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
She thought it was one big country...

You know whats funny ... when ever we hear we need to do more for "Africa".. Most people dont distinguish either. Most of the AIDS groups are not specific ... are they just assumeing its one country as well.? When Rev Wright speaks of African empowerment .. is he referring to the country or the continent. ?
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
Like Obama , she comes from nowhere, although she actually had paying jobs and worked her way on her own ..the stories are similiar.

Barack Obama worked paying jobs too ... community organizer, law professor and lawyer.

Mrs. Palin worked as a sports reporter/weather girl at some local television news affiliate in the sticks.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
Meanwhile not one reporter went to Bill Ayres , Rev Wright , Farakan , Rezco, ACORN , Fanny Freddy operation in Chicago,the mortgage company in Chicago, his bother in Kenya , His Grandmother in Kenya , any of his professors or friends from college .

Right ... no reporters ever, ever sought out a chat with any of the above mentioned folks ...

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog.../mr-ayerss-neighborhood.html?yrail
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/weatherunderground/interview.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...-ayers13-2008oct13,0,2980206.story
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us...tics/04ayers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,420341,00.html
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama...right_pastor/2008/04/13/87617.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...n2008/2008-03-18-obamawright_N.htm
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/profile.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...ed0326trinitymar26,0,2414760.story
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/01/rezko/print.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/us...politics/14rezko.html?pagewanted=1
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...-na-obamalegal6apr06,0,26672.story
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...inspiration-says-lost-brother.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...as/us_elections/article4583353.ece
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/22/bts.obama.brother/

the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
No one .. we nerver heard a word from teachers , professors friends any of it. It was all in his convieniently packaged book. No questions needed.! (Thanks to Tom Dashall media efforts and publisher)

You're a big fat liar.
 
JakeOrion
Posts: 1090
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:13 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 71):
(e.g. someone with zero experience could be VP and likely President).

Everyone always says that about Palin, but what about Obama?

Seriously, this argument does not work.

She was nominated for VICE PRESIDENT, excuse me, second in command. Two, # 2. She would have answered to McCain at the end of the day.

Obama is President, first in command. One, # 1. He answers to no one. He is it. And if you think he'll honestly answer to the American public, right....Bush didn't, what makes you think Obama will?
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 72):

You know whats funny ... when ever we hear we need to do more for "Africa".. Most people dont distinguish either. Most of the AIDS groups are not specific ... are they just assumeing its one country as well.? When Rev Wright speaks of African empowerment .. is he referring to the country or the continent. ?

well, if people refer to "Africa", they obviously speak about the continent.... just for the simple reason that there is no country in this world which is called "Africa".
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:22 pm



Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
Also, that the clothing scandal is bigger than what has been reported. I'm sure now that the election is over, a whole lot of what we didn't know...is about to be known.

Why did I know a thread like this was going to start? My only amazement is that I haven't seen Luv2fly in here.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
It bothers me that you think it isn't.
Are you an American or aren't you? If you are then it is your duty to support your country and paying taxes is part of that.

According to whom? Joe Biden?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I question your patriotism if you think that paying taxes is somehow unpatriotic. Especially since levying taxes is a power specifically granted to Congress in the Constitution, and not by an amendment, either.

Incorrect as it relates to income taxes. In article 1 section 9 you will read:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
Which effectively eliminated the threat of income tax due to the complexity at the time of taking a census prior to taking the tax.

The sixteenth amendment to the Constitution reads:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


Prior to that most of the governments income came from tarifs duties and imposts. Only once before had income taxes been allowed and that was during the civil war and that was resisted by many citizens. Were they unpatriotic? When the government again tried to institute a flat rate income tax in 1894 it was ruled Unconstitutional in 1895. Was the Supreme Court unpatriotic?

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 31):
She never promised to be anything she wasn't,

Correct and in that it was completely refreshing.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 66):
Every political step she has ever taken has been driven by personal ambition and opportunism.

Hmmmm....sound suspiciously like anyone else we know in this election cycle?

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 66):
but a full review of her record shows ego and ambition drove almost all decisions. Add to that the sense of entitlement each position of power gave her (family travel at state expense, family clothes a party expense), and you begin to realize just how dangerous this woman could be in a position of true power.

Funny how if you were describing a man most people would shrug it off as how the game is played. But for Governor Palin and Senator Clinton before her, the stereotype of "bitch" remains.
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 71):
In fairness to Sarah Palin, I don't think she's a "bad lady" or that she's a moron. Think about it from her perspective ... she probably never dreamed she'd be a VP candidate and all of a sudden here's McCain on the phone offering her the VP spot. She accepted, out of what I believe was loyalty to the party rather than some sort of political agenda, and was thrown into the spotlight overnight. I think her only mistake was accepting a nomination for which she was grossly unqualified.

actually, this is not quite so true.... from what I read there has been some serious lobbying going for her to be chosen as a VP for as much as one year before her nomination... so she knew very well about being a possible choice - in fact, she secretly pushed for it!
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:31 pm

In retrospect, I also feel Palin was a poor choice for SP (Brazil)">VP by McCain. If I was him, I would have stayed true to being considered and acting like a Maverick and would have nominated someone who in some way shares that and, on top of that, is from a different party. If I was McCain, I would have picked Joe Lieberman. Granted, he's a democrat who runs under an independent ticket, but from his experience and track record working even with Republicans, he would have been the better choice.

As far as Obama chosing Joe Biden, that also came to me as a surprise. I would have thought initially that Hillary would make it, or Bill Richardson, but he instead opted for someone different. However, unlike SP, JB has also a proven track record in the senate, and he knows how to run a nationwide campaign better than SP did.

Before I stopped following the SP (Brazil)">VP campaign more in detail, I noticed that Palin was constantly repeating what she said in the RNC, while Biden at least put the message into different words so to say. Too much repetitiveness is something voters hate. Then, another thing that hurt Palin, apart from the troopergate issue, is the fact that she doesn't know the first thing about Washington. Granted, Bill Clinton, who also ran for the White House while being only a governor, wasn't exactly experienced in that either, but he at least tried to get to know the establishment, and nominated with Al Gore as SP (Brazil)">VP someone who knows one or two things about DC (since Gore was a US senator).

Let's see how this transition will go.
 
rwsea
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 74):
Everyone always says that about Palin, but what about Obama?

Seriously, this argument does not work.

She was nominated for VICE PRESIDENT, excuse me, second in command. Two, # 2. She would have answered to McCain at the end of the day.

Well... McCain would have been elected the oldest president in history. That correctly raises flags about who his successor would be. And Joe Biden, say what you want about him, he's qualified to be president if anything does happen to Obama. I don't see how that can be any more clear.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 77):
actually, this is not quite so true.... from what I read there has been some serious lobbying going for her to be chosen as a VP for as much as one year before her nomination... so she knew very well about being a possible choice - in fact, she secretly pushed for it!

I haven't seen anything to support that assertion, but if it's correct, then it certainly changes things.
 
haggis79
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 78):
If I was McCain, I would have picked Joe Lieberman. Granted, he's a democrat who runs under an independent ticket, but from his experience and track record working even with Republicans, he would have been the better choice.

actually, as far as I know he wanted to - but he was stopped from doing so by his staff or some other GOP bigheads.
 
AGM100
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 73):
You're a big fat liar

Hey I have put on few pounds in my 40's .. but fat ? woa hold on. . I can still lift my weight 20 times... So when your ready to go .. bring it.

So what your saying is that people knew all about his background but voted for him anyway ? I agree with that . I beleive that people would have voted for anyone with D in their title...
 
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LTU932
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 80):
actually, as far as I know he wanted to - but he was stopped from doing so by his staff or some other GOP bigheads.

I just wanted to mention this as well. Obama, in some way, had pretty much "carte blanche" to do what he saw fit for his campaign, while McCain was likely under pressure to cede to the will of the so-called Neocon-Base of the party.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:49 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 69):
You know Dubya thought that Africa was a country too.

Proof? Considering the amount of aid he pledged individual countries there in their fight against aids as well as the reception he recieved across the continent this past summer, your comment seems kind of ridiculous.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:57 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 76):
Incorrect as it relates to income taxes. In article 1 section 9 you will read:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
Which effectively eliminated the threat of income tax due to the complexity at the time of taking a census prior to taking the tax.

It did not ban the threat of income tax at all. It simply said that each state had to be taxed according to population.

The 16th amendment changed that and made it so that each individual could be taxed based on income, rather than a flat capitated tax.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 29):
Which tells me there's something there she doesn't want us to know about. Is it simply embarrassing? Or is it more than that?

My guess is that she was treated for an STD at some point in the past. In my opinion, that information should never be released unless that STD is HIV or Hepatitis B/C, all of which can significantly affect an individual's overall health. Other STD's are either not lethal or curable. HPV is really the only exception, but I'm sure she's got HPV; by age 40, essentially all women do. And with looks like those and the fact that she was married before, we know she wan't a blushing virgin on her wedding night.

In my opinion, such information should stay private.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 70):
The still hidden world government

DAMNIT! How did you find us out? Sorry, MD80, but I'm going to have to call up my friends at the Jewish World Conspiracy to get the folks at the Illuminati to have the black helicopters pay you a visit. Actually, just because we're friendly, I'll have them send in the UFO's, instead, so they won't kill you; they'll just remove your memories via anal probe. I'm terribly sorry about this, but you've uncovered the truth and we can't let that be known.  Wink

(Wait, did I just post that on A.net? Darnit, I guess the UFO's will be greeting me next.)

Quoting Slider (Reply 49):

But it’s nice that the left can’t get over the appeal of Palin

Yeah. The Left is really concerned about her appeal. It got her elected to the second-highest office in the land, after all, didn't it?  duck 

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 61):

John McCain didn't even know who Sarah Palin was before he was told she would be his running mate.

Can you cite a source for this?
 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:04 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 84):
It did not ban the threat of income tax at all. It simply said that each state had to be taxed according to population.

Which in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries would have been a daunting task to accomplish each year to levy the tax. As stated the provision requiring a census or enumeration of population effectively enforced a ban on income taxes due to the complexity involved.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 84):
The 16th amendment changed that and made it so that each individual could be taxed based on income, rather than a flat capitated tax.

Again incorrect. What the 16th amendment did was to eliminate the claus requiring that a census or enumeration of population be conducted prior to imposing the tax. In effect it became the citizens responsibility to report to the governement rather than the governments job to find the citizen.
 
FruteBrute
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:06 pm

I see RJ is spinning again.

Lemme make this easier for RJ. Is it, or is it not patriotic to support the war? Yes or No?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:07 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 85):

Again incorrect. What the 16th amendment did was to eliminate the claus requiring that a census or enumeration of population be conducted prior to imposing the tax. In effect it became the citizens responsibility to report to the governement rather than the governments job to find the citizen.

That's not incorrect; it's exactly what I was saying.
 
A332
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:07 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 70):
Here's what you closet socialists don't know about Sarah Palin.

She was courted by John McCain to be "Febreze" to his smelly pile of dog poop. She was responsible for 80% of his election result....period. To say anything less would be ignorant.
Hell, 2 days after the republican party lost, the ravenous idiocy on this board against her is still going strong.

The republicans threw this election, took a dive in other words. The still hidden world government thought they could make more headway (in destroying America) by having Obama in office.....thusly it is so. Once Palin caught wind of this, she decided (and rightfully so) to go "rogue". Even the judas goat "Faux News Network" are hammering on her. That is how deep this national corruption goes.

She'll be back.....and not as some lap-dog 2nd-seat to corrupt neocons. They hate her as much as you people do. Don't you get it yet? She's the great white hope of the -true- paleoconservative party. One group of filthy liberals leave the WH on 1-20-09, and a new group takes their place. That's change we all need.

Aww muffin... let me get you a tissue.

Let me guess... you finally clued into reality, and it hurts. You must feel like a real winner considering you were Palin's biggest cheerleader (by far) on the forum and touted her as the saving grace and Republican campaign hero and her victory was a question of 'when' and not 'if'... and guess what... you were dead wrong.

Palin's national political career is over. Get on with life. You made the wrong decision in blindly espousing her and continually mocking those on this board who dared to criticize your (or her) position.
 
haggis79
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 79):
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 77):
actually, this is not quite so true.... from what I read there has been some serious lobbying going for her to be chosen as a VP for as much as one year before her nomination... so she knew very well about being a possible choice - in fact, she secretly pushed for it!

I haven't seen anything to support that assertion, but if it's correct, then it certainly changes things.

had to do some searching - but here it is (I had several German links, but wanted to find an English one):

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/27/081027fa_fact_mayer

Quote:
Upon being elected governor, Palin began developing relationships with Washington insiders, who later championed the idea of putting her on the 2008 ticket. “There’s some political opportunism on her part,” Bitney said. For years, “she’s had D.C. in mind.” He added, “She’s not interested in being on the junior-varsity team.”

During her gubernatorial campaign, Bitney said, he began predicting to Palin that she would make the short list of Republican Vice-Presidential prospects. “She had the biography, I told her, to be a contender,” he recalled. At first, Palin only laughed. But within a few months of being sworn in she and others in her circle noticed that a blogger named Adam Brickley had started a movement to draft her as Vice-President. Palin also learned that a number of prominent conservative pundits would soon be passing through Juneau, on cruises sponsored by right-leaning political magazines. She invited these insiders to the governor’s mansion, and even led some of them on a helicopter tour.



Quote:
By the end of February, 2008, the chorus of conservative pundits for Palin was loud enough for the mainstream media to take note. Chris Cillizza, reporting for the Web site of the Washington Post, interviewed Palin and asked her if she’d accept an offer to be McCain’s running mate. Though she dismissed the notion as a virtual “impossibility this go-round,” Palin, who had been in office for only fourteen months, said, “Is it generally something that I would want to consider? Yes.”

 
Confuscius
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:24 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 29):
Which tells me there's something there she doesn't want us to know about. Is it simply embarrassing? Or is it more than that?

Being from that state, it could either be Ophelia or Alaskan King.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 87):
That's not incorrect; it's exactly what I was saying.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 84):
The 16th amendment changed that and made it so that each individual could be taxed based on income, rather than a flat capitated tax.

No I'm afraid it isn't. Again article 1 section 9 reads:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

The 16th amendment reads:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Do you see the difference now? Prior to the 16th amendment the federal government did not have the power to levy any tax against the population whether flat or income based without first conducting a census or enumeration of population. The 16th amendment eliminated the need for a census or enumeration prior to instituting an income, or any other type of, tax. It opened the door for all the taxes, payroll, capital gains, death, etc, we pay today. As with all Constitutional amendments the citizens do not vote on them. So to say that you are unpatriotic because you don't believe in income taxes is not true since the average citizen had no say in the institution of the income tax nor how large it is. Orginally the rates went from 1% to 7% and the government functioned just fine.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 86):
I see RJ is spinning again.

Considering I am quoting directly from the Constitution I'd like to know what part of the Constitution I'm spinning? As to the rest of your comment, irrevelant to the topic of taxes.
 
blrsea
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:37 pm

Internal battles divided McCain, Palin camps

Quote:
...
Whatever the truth, one thing is certain. Ms. Palin, who laughingly told the prankster that she could be president “maybe in eight years,” was the catalyst for a civil war between her campaign and Mr. McCain’s that raged from mid-September up until moments before Mr. McCain’s concession speech on Tuesday night. By then, Ms. Palin was in only infrequent contact with Mr. McCain, top advisers said.

“I think it was a difficult relationship,” said one top McCain campaign official, who, like almost all others interviewed, asked to remain anonymous. “McCain talked to her occasionally.”

But Mr. McCain’s advisers also described him as admiring of Ms. Palin’s political skills. He was aware of the infighting, they said, but it is unclear how much he was inclined or able to stop it.

The tensions and their increasingly public airing provide a revealing coda to the ill-fated McCain-Palin ticket, hinting at the mounting turmoil of a campaign that was described even by many Republicans as incoherent, negative and badly run.

...

 
searpqx
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:38 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 68):
Its a highway driven by every politician including Sen Obama. The left wing has dimissed his associations completly as merely characters on his political journey. Frankly ,give me a person who sees fighting her own party as way to power ..rather than hanging out with America hateing nobodies to score points.

Why do you make the assumption about Palin's intentions and turn blind to those of Sen Obama. I think I know .

A few posts below this you tell someone to bring it, so I invite the same to you - instead of snide insinuations - say what you think you know (about me), and be prepared to back it up.

As for Obama and his associations, the left wing, and the rest of the country for that matter, are still waiting for evidence those encounters have carried forward to today or in anyway shape his actions or even political outlook.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 70):
To say anything less would be ignorant.

No, its your additional statements that demonstrate ignorance.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 76):
Funny how if you were describing a man most people would shrug it off as how the game is played. But for Governor Palin and Senator Clinton before her, the stereotype of "bitch" remains.

I don't and have never considered either woman a bitch. I think they are both wildly ambitious, such that their ambition is demonstrated in a say anything, do anything mentality to get ahead. That's why I never considered supporting Senator Clinton, and why I am worried at the thought of politically resurgent Gov. Palin. And for the record, I have and will continue to say the same thing about anyone who's ambition rules all, man or woman.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 81):
So what your saying is that people knew all about his background but voted for him anyway ? I agree with that . I believe that people would have voted for anyone with D in their title...

What I find funny about this statement is that four years ago, as many were wondering how Bush could have been re-elected, and theories of fear or blind loyalty were put forward, the right soundly chastised all for insulting those that voted for Bush, by suggesting that they'd done anything other than vote for the candidate they thought most capable of being President. . . .
 
dc863
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:41 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 71):
In fairness to Sarah Palin, I don't think she's a "bad lady" or that she's a moron. Think about it from her perspective ... she probably never dreamed she'd be a VP candidate and all of a sudden here's McCain on the phone offering her the VP spot. She accepted, out of what I believe was loyalty to the party rather than some sort of political agenda, and was thrown into the spotlight overnight. I think her only mistake was accepting a nomination for which she was grossly unqualified.

I agree, I'm sure she can be schooled in the next few years to be a qualified candidate.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 93):
And for the record, I have and will continue to say the same thing about anyone who's ambition rules all, man or woman.

So when President Elect Obama gets into office and as President says "oops" guess we are going to have to scrap that tax cut after all I assume you will hold his feet to the fire? Unlike national security issues, the economy is an open book.
 
AGM100
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:49 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 93):
A few posts below this you tell someone to bring it, so I invite the same to you - instead of snide insinuations - say what you think you know (about me), and be prepared to back it up.

That was not a reply to your post ... I am not fat ,.,, I am big bonned !!

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 93):
As for Obama and his associations, the left wing, and the rest of the country for that matter, are still waiting for evidence those encounters have carried forward to today or in anyway shape his actions or even political outlook

Thats Fair , but its a topic switch. We are to assume the worst about Palin... but just be patient and calm and see what happens with Obama. I have no idea what Sen Obama will do .. he may be fine. thats not the arguement.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 93):
by suggesting that they'd done anything other than vote for the candidate they thought most capable of being President. . . .

No... the argument is too say that the elctorate was fully aware of his associations and voted for him anyway. I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU.
 
SpeedBirdA380
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:51 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 49):
The hateful responses are more illuminating of those who are doing it than they are about Palin.

You can bet your life that if the Republicans won on Tuesday there would be tons of posts bashing Obama and the Liberals.(Well there already are but there would be even more if he had lost)

And watching the news most of the nasty comments and mud-slinging came from the Mccain/Palin camp.

Quoting Sarah Palin - "Our opponent is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country"

And now you are upset she is getting bashed.

Well I say - What goe's around comes around.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:09 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 70):
The republicans threw this election, took a dive in other words. The still hidden world government thought they could make more headway (in destroying America) by having Obama in office.....thusly it is so. Once Palin caught wind of this, she decided (and rightfully so) to go "rogue". Even the judas goat "Faux News Network" are hammering on her. That is how deep this national corruption goes.

Dude, chill out! The next thing will probably be "Tin foil hats for everyone!"  crazy 

Palin is back in Alaska, and I think the voters in Alaska will remove her from power in due time.  wave 
 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:28 pm



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 97):
And watching the news most of the nasty comments and mud-slinging came from the Mccain/Palin camp.

Just based on media buying volume there is little chance that this is true.

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 97):
Quoting Sarah Palin - "Our opponent is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country"

Which of those statements is untrue? Did he not declare in Berlin that our nation is imperfect? Did he not live in the same neighborhood, vote in the same precinct, sit on the same boards, and have his political career launched in the living room of one of those terrorists?
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