Quoting STT757 (Reply 132): Yeah what an unimpressive resume he has, Graduate of Columbia UniversityGraduate of Harvard Law SchoolPresident of the Harvard Law ReviewPracticed Law as a Civil Rights AttorneyIllinois State SenatorProfessor Univeristy of Chicago School of LawUS Senator

   How very unimpressive!

Quoting Diamond (Reply 146): Her political views are the polar opposite of mine, and she was under-qualified to campaign, let alone hold office. But it's sad to see her being used 9 weeks ago for who she is, and now to be trashed for who she is.

   I sometimes wonder how much of this would be happnening if she wasn't a woman. Seriously! Look, I'm the last person to support Sarah Palin but I truly belive that sexism is playing a big role in some of the criticism that is being handed down.

[Edited 2008-11-07 10:58:04]

Quoting YOWza (Reply 136): From what I can tell a lot of this has been leaked by McCain aides, are you going to accuse them of being anti-republican too?

No, but I will accuse them of being self-serving. If they actually cared about the party, they
should have been whistle-blowers from the start, but they weren't. Only when it became clear
that they were going to lose did they come out with this kind of a "Look I never did anything
wrong, it was all because of her" excuse. But more importantly, the aides that worked the
closest with Palin are saying just the opposite. But i guess the media doesn't want to hear
their stories because it just isn't as sensational.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 151): If they actually cared about the party,

Sorry, but if they really did mean "Country First" they should have cared about the country, not the party. Instead their own agenda was more important, and part of the reason McCain lost. The American people saw the flip flopping and inconsistent messages with a backdrop of "Mission Accomplished" errrr..... sorry...... "Country First".  

Quoting STT757 (Reply 132): Graduate of Columbia University Graduate of Harvard Law School President of the Harvard Law Review Practiced Law as a Civil Rights Attorney Illinois State Senator Professor Univeristy of Chicago School of Law US Senator

Well let's hope all that framed paper means something in an international incident. My father who received his PhD in 58 from Univ. Of Chicago has written over 35 Economic books and hundreds of articles. It doesn't matter how many degrees Obama has or what chair he has held, what really matters is what you do with them.........i.e. how much have you published.


As for Palin she has executive experience. Also who gives a rats azz what kind of wardrobe she has.....................talk about a non issue........................libs gone paranoid and crazy.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 151): If they actually cared about the party, they should have been whistle-blowers from the start

Dunno about that. Once McCain won his party's nomination and Palin was in the paddock I think any whistle blowing would have swift boated their whole campaign.

YOWza

Quoting YOWza (Reply 147): Well in my opinion they are truer to certain facets of republicanism than Bush and company.

Bush is a globalist. McCain, I don't know what the heck he is but both of them certainly do not represent the Republican party I signed up for.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 147): So all this chatter about him being the right guy for the job because he's a "maverick" is all great till he fail then all of a sudden that backbone becomes betrayal?

I have never said McCain was the right guy for the job. In fact, I claimed both McCain and Obama were not qualified to be in the White House, hence my vote to Bob Barr. I have never supported McCain, especially after the Gang of 14. I did not want him as my representative.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 147): Actually she did that herself, you've seen some of the interviews...

Which were not as bad as everyone claimed to be. Obama had his fair share of mistakes but I don't see you harping on him.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 147): A man much wiser than myself once said that consensus was the first pillar of democracy.

And as I quote from Alexander Tyler:

Quote: A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

Well, I´m not too worried, Dan Quayle was VP, he would´ve been a much worse president than
Sarah.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 156): Bush is a globalist. McCain, I don't know what the heck he is but both of them certainly do not represent the Republican party I signed up for.

I wonder, do you see more Republicans who feel the same way that you do? I mean, Bush received the support from the party's core to be elected twice, and McCain has been re-elected several times to the Senate, plus he was runner up to Bush in 2000 and the candidate in 2008. This tells me that the base of the party perhaps has shifted from what the party was when you signed up. Is that the general consensus, and if it is, will the party end up splitting into 2 factions?

I'm curious, cause I keep hearing this argument that both Bush and McCain are not true Republicans in the sense that Reagan was yet they are the most popular within the party. Either the faction of "true" Republicans is shrinking or the party was hi-jacked by other beliefs.

Hey, anyone still substantiate the Africa thing? Anyone? Bueller? Didn't think so....

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 158): I wonder, do you see more Republicans who feel the same way that you do?

I’ll also chime in on this one. As a former Republican, and someone who knows plenty of them, they’re pissed. Only the most blind sycophantic utter partisans can admit that Bush did anywhere near a fair job. They feel violated by his failure to communicate, his misguided foreign policy, his drunken-sailor fiscal policies, his lack of using the bully pulpit or veto authority, and pretty much everything.

The base is very much alienated. Hence why McCain was such a horrible choice—because he wasn’t a conservative and DID in fact offer more of the same: Bush. Except with more of an overt ‘across the aisle’ approach.

I thought this was a decent post-mortem article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...1/gop_defeat_and_the_new_tone.html

That’s why Palin was so refreshing. There are others out there and they’ll be crucified too because they would pose a threat to liberalism.

Quoting Slider (Reply 159): Hey, anyone still substantiate the Africa thing? Anyone? Bueller? Didn't think so....

How can we substantiate it? When asked about it, she didn't deny that it happened. She sort of deflected the question and attacked the people who spread the word. If she had not been so ignorant as to have not known that Africa is a continent then she'd have reacted differently I wager.

Quoting Slider (Reply 159): That’s why Palin was so refreshing.

Refreshing like a pus filled boil.

Quoting Slider (Reply 159): That’s why Palin was so refreshing. There are others out there and they’ll be crucified too because they would pose a threat to liberalism.

Given all that you've said...how can any thinking person term Palin as 'so refreshing."...?

Forgive me for missing something here..but someone who is an elected leader (AK Gov) then exposed (Couric and Gibson interviews) as an 'gnat-class intellectual' and completely uninformed and unexposed of the whole world in it's most basic of forms - how would that person be 'refreshing' to a party of people who demand a strong arm in the arena of Foreign Policy and National defense? Those are core 'meat and potato' issues with GOP ... not the Dems.


BN747

Quoting Slider (Reply 159): The base is very much alienated. Hence why McCain was such a horrible choice

That's what I can't understand, if the base feels alienated then why did they choose McCain, or was it a case in which the alternatives where not competitive at the national level? When I look at the Democrats I see that they also had a bit of disagreement within as both Clinton and Obama went to the wire and Obama won the nomination only after a drawn out process. However, their views must have been pretty similar cause the entire base pulled together quickly behind Obama, even the most hardcore of Clinton fans. Which begs the question of what will be of the GOP...

...if I interpret what transpired in this election cycle correctly the old GOP guard which was energized by Palin was on the edge of sitting out the election and not supporting McCain at all. Seems to me then that this is more evidence that Palin did not cost McCain the election at all, rather that had she not been on the ticket his loss would have been greater. Is that an accurate view in your opinion?

Ever think McCain was running for second place from the start?

I mean, the RNC strategists must have known it was impossible for him to win months ago, even before a vice president was selected. Palin was the RNC hail mary. Give her a break.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): Palin rejected the clothes the GOP bought for her

My A$$ she rejected them............................Drink a bit much of that McCaine/Palin Koolaide did ya?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9): If Republicans are wondering why the DNC just wiped the floor with them, maybe it's because the GOP has essentially made Conservatism equivalent to noisy, rowdy, idiocy. And Sarah Palin was the spokeswoman.

The GOP has shattered to pieces. I strongly supported Ron Paul (R-TX) in the primaries. He's Conservative on spending, and Taxes to a minimum (Flat or percentage based tax). He wants out of this worthless conflict in Iraq. As soon as he was declared done I went right over to the Democratic Ticket. I voted for Obama/Biden, and do not regret one bit of it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): So, Biden saying paying taxes is patritotic doesn't bother you? It bothers me that you think it isn't. Are you an American or aren't you? If you are then it is your duty to support your country and paying taxes is part of that. I question your patriotism if you think that paying taxes is somehow unpatriotic. Especially since levying taxes is a power specifically granted to Congress in the Constitution, and not by an amendment, either.

Hold on there my very young friend. Paying taxes has nothing to do with patriotism. While I agree, it is the duty of every American to support the country, paying taxes is a requirement, not a voluntary action. Being a patriot is being a volunteer to go and do something for the country, like serving in the military (like I did for 22 years, and 3 wars).

So, don't give me that liberal tax argument, from the words of an idiot for a professional politician. Is it patriotic for Biden to take my money and give it to someone who won't work for theirs? No, it isn't patriotic, in fact it is stupid.

Freedom isn't free, my friend, and freeloaders don't deserve a free ride.

Don't go quoting the US Constitution to me, either, young wipper snapper. Ypour friend Biden didn't even know the the Vice President is the President of the Senate at all times, not just when he is needed to break a tie vote. Biden didn't even know that is the only time the Vice President can vote in the Senate. Biden needs to read this from the US Constitution, Artical 1, Section 3;

"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided."

We have a new POTUS now with Obama. How he leads and how successful he is for the country will be determined in time. But, it is also clear that we have elcted a babbling idiot as the next VPOTUS.

Remember him saying how President Roosevelt went on TV to speak to the nation 1929 about the stock market crash? The problem is Roosevelt wasn't President, and there wasn't any TV.

I can't wait for his next stupid remark.

Right now there are a bunch of Republicans just trying to cover their butts over the Palin scandals and the significant losses the party in general has faced in this election. That means some finding excuses, trying to blame others including the media and each other and so on. Palin seems to have become the person to hang their blame on for those losses due to her serious intellectual, ethical and personal issues as well as media missteps, the clothing and other scandals.

The Republican Party needs to take some time, have their top people meet and work out where they want to go, who they want to lead them, how to keep Obama and the Democrats in check, become more centerist yet retain some base values.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): and all will be donated now that the election is over.

For a party that talks about cutting spending, they sure did not follow their own philosophy.

All will be donated? So what? They could have spend $5000 and donated it, instead they are donating $150000 worth.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 10): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): So, Biden saying paying taxes is patritotic doesn't bother you? who the bloody hell do you think paid your wages whilst you were in the military?

Beautiful point.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23): I saw that report last night and I was shocked!..

Tom I thought the same but I think Palin is gettnig shafted to a degree. And thats coming from someone who does not care for her as VP. I think she is an honorable person and was disgraced.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 104): Governor Palin and Senator Clinton before her, the stereotype of "bitch" remains.

Clinton? Yes. Palin,...I don't see it. She is a much more charming person. She comes off as a btich when on the attack.....like a pitbull in lipstick.

Even in all her interviews since Wednesday, she is not coming off as bitchy or catty. I think she is doing a stand up job supporting herself. McCain should do the honorable thing and speak out.


"Sarah Palin is a full grown woman, with 4 (or 5) kids, managed to get herself into the Gov seat of Alaska.

And I applaud her for it.


"It appears to me that Palin was amazed at how easy it was to BS her way into the AK Governorship"

Its statements like these that are just nonsense. You can't BS your way into such a job.

"I think if there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA or about the continent versus the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context, and that is cruel and mean-spirited, it's immature, it's unprofessional, and those guys are jerks."

I'm just wondering, for someone running for such high office, how the fact that she didn't know the members of NAFTA (couldn't she guess?) and whether Africa is a continent can be "taken out of context".

Of course, it's very hard for anyone else to know what someone else doesn't know. You kind of assume that most people would know certain facts, let alone someone who is a state governor. One thing that's going to have to change is that the method of vetting people for high office is going to have to be reviewed, because if the Republicans don't, the media certainly will.

Another possibility is that someone with such a lack of basic knowledge was deliberately chosen, not with a view to embarrassing the party, but because someone with an extremely limited world view is much easier to "guide"; Neocons would be in there like a shot, surrounding her and effectively controlling her foreign policy - with results that could make the last eight years seem quite tame.

There has been a significant dumbing down of the Republican Party over the years, it began during the First Bush Administration. They felt George H.W. Bush was too much of an intellectual, there seems to be a disdain for any high level intellectual discourse amongst conservatives. Which is what is splitting the party, there are some really insightful folks who identify themselves as Republicans yet are not being brought in or embraced by the party in general.

Quoting Slider (Reply 51): The media failed so magnificently in this campaign

  , on both sides, I don't think they asked enough tough questions of Obama and his campaign was high on hope, but not very detailed in policy, so we don't know fully what to expect.

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 54): It's funny that when the truth is told about the woman

Do you honestly believe that a college-educated women and governor does not know that Africa is a continent? I mean, I did not like her for becoming VP; but I do know that she is not stupid.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 74): She was nominated for VICE PRESIDENT, excuse me, second in command. Two, # 2. She would have answered to McCain at the end of the day. Obama is President, first in command. One, # 1. He answers to no one. He is it. And if you think he'll honestly answer to the American public, right....Bush didn't, what makes you think Obama will?

That is what I said all along. She was not qualified to be vice-president, yet the country elected a little know one term governor from the South, Jimmy Carter. Granted, Carter is not close to the the best president in our history, but the fact is President-Elect Obama has had less than 4 years on the national stage, and there is a lot we do not know about him. I wonder if the race would have been any different if the financial crisis would have hit sooner. Obama's main line of attack on Clinton would be virtually useless had that happened and we could have seen a very different result.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 76): Funny how if you were describing a man most people would shrug it off as how the game is played. But for Governor Palin and Senator Clinton before her, the stereotype of "bitch" remains.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 104): Separate topic but this bothers me a lot as well

Me as well

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 111): Your party has been repudiated

I believe that it has been very much not the whole party, but more President Bush. If there was a Democrat in the White House and things played out in a simmilar way, people probably would have repudiated the Dems. McCain did, IMHO, a lot better than most other Republicans.

US politics is very much a cycle, and the Democrats won't be in control forever. If the economy does not show signs of turning around in 2 years, then the Dems have no one to blame but themselves.

Quoting Dc863 (Reply 129): Slogans and Tshirts isn't going to make any "CHANGE" but if you look at the crowds they're acting as if Obama is a god.

  , thats what bothers me the most. He hasn't been specific enough and not a lot of people seemed to care. They heard the words change and hope (which are not new in elections, BTW) and didn't seem to ask tough enough questions about what he wants to do. Sure, some might say that you should just look on his website, but I want to hear him say the words, which he didn't do very often.

Now, before I get flamed for all of this, I did vote for Barack Obama, but I do believe that American people have been failed by the Media. I supported Hillary Clinton because I felt that she had the ability to get things done, and was the best person to lead this country.

However, I don't want to hear anyone complaining a year and a half down the road that things are not as he promised. Politians always make promises, and rarely do they follow through. The dems have no one but to blame for themselves if things don't get better. They have 57 seats in the Senate, which even though can't overcome a fillibuster, still enough to pass legislation, and enough in the house.

Hopefully, Obama's choice of a Chief of Staff will be a good one; but he is know for being partisan.

Sarah Palin, I never believed that she was the right person to be VP, I mean, out of all the Republican women in the country, you had to choose her? However, I think that she is being blamed for things that she shouldn't have. I do know that getting to a position like she has, you have to be knowledgable, and she is. It might not have come across like that in the media, but they can do something called "editing." McCain was facing an uphill climb from the beginning because everyone does not like Bush, but the staffers that are leaking this type of information are just trying to save themselves. Most of what I am hearing, I just don't think is true because it doesn't add up.

She is not going to go away, and would not be surprised to see her run for Sen. Steven's seat if he is thrown out or resigns.

McCain staffers just need to ackowledge they were the ones that picked here, move on and try to figure out a way to help the GOP find and rebuild itself; probably on the hopes that the Democratic Controlled government won't live up to its' promises and get some seats back.

What amazes me about the election though is hearing stories of people not knowing who was in control of Congress. They would assume since Bush is in the White House that the GOP controlled congress.

I am looking forward to seeing what can be done in the next few years to reverse the course of the nation, but am afraid that all the campaign promises won't even see the light of day (that they can't lay the groundwork for recovery in 2-3 years) among other things.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 168): There has been a significant dumbing down of the Republican Party over the years, it began during the First Bush Administration.

Very true. But then again Reagan wasn't much of a rocket scientist either. But the past 8 years really has been an acceleration of the ignorant morons running for the Republicans. Honestly, Sarah Palin is a moron yes, but who's the bigger moron for picking her? But see that appeals to the Republican base. These morons think they can run the country sitting at home / trailer drinking beer and throwing out absurd statements like, "nuke em" or "they hate us for our freedom" and other ridiculous things. Usually, these people have never owned a passport, never traveled, yet are self-proclaimed experts on the rest of the world, and that every huge issue can be solved and summed up with a 30 sec sound byte.

I call these morons "the homskooled" crowd.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 169): I believe that it has been very much not the whole party, but more President Bush.

Not at all. It was a repudiation of a party that went hog wild on spending. No vetoes from Bush until the Democrats were elected to run the House and Senate. Torture. An unnecessary war. Demonization of anyone that dared disagreed with the President or party. Outting a spy. Trying to vote Bush's cleaning lady into the Supreme Court. Having a dildo salesman run FEMA. The gulag in Cuba. The list goes on and on. The American people do know that these things weren't passed or done without the complete, complicit support of the Republicans.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164): Being a patriot is being a volunteer to go and do something for the country, like serving in the military (like I did for 22 years, and 3 wars).

But you couldn't be a patriot unless people pay substantial taxes. You don't get the world's largest military without some substantial cost. That's what I never understand about Republicans, they love having the world's largest and most powerful military, but they don't want the high taxes that comes along with supporting that military.

As for Palin, I may not have cared for her as VP, but at this point leave her alone. I don't care about how much money was spent on her clothes. And I don't care if she was a "diva". Let her go back to Alaska and serve her constituents. If she ever chooses to run for Federal office again, then we can worry about her geography skills.

[Edited 2008-11-08 13:27:13]

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 171): at all. It was a repudiation of a party that went hog wild on spending. No vetoes from Bush until the Democrats were elected to run the House and Senate. Torture. An unnecessary war. Demonization of anyone that dared disagreed with the President or party. Outting a spy. Trying to vote Bush's cleaning lady into the Supreme Court. Having a dildo salesman run FEMA. The gulag in Cuba.

All as a result of President Bush, I am not trying to say that it was all just bush; but he had a set idea of things he wanted to do, and he had a rubber stamp in congress.

Congress wasn't going to stand up to Bush, and they got voted out of power in 06, so they had already been repudiated. That is what the election of 2006 was about. They were extremely unhappy with the country and they took it out on the party in congress. This election, they made the statement that where Bush has taken the country is wrong. They did vote against Republicans out in races, but a lot could be contributed to the candidates themselves. Sen. Dole didn't spend a lot of time in NC, so they voted her out. Mark Warner is popular in VA, they voted him in. A lot of the flips in congress have to do with the candidate. The statement that was sent this year was against Bush.

Sarah Palin will need to learn a lot over the next 4 years if she wants to run for President again.
Perhaps she should buy a home with a view of a library to get more credibility.  

Quoting Superfly (Reply 174): Sarah Palin will need to learn a lot over the next 4 years if she wants to run for President again.

When did she run the first time?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 175): When did she run the first time?

Not when but where. And the answer is, "in some people's minds."  

Quoting Superfly (Reply 174): Sarah Palin will need to learn a lot over the next 4 years if she wants to run for President again. Perhaps she should buy a home with a view of a library to get more credibility.

I think she will end up appointing herself via her Lt. Gov to replace Senator Stevens. She's not going anywhere.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 177): I think she will end up appointing herself via her Lt. Gov to replace Senator Stevens.

Can't do that in Alaska, it would require a special election..

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164): like serving in the military (like I did for 22 years, and 3 wars).

Boom operator in a tanker, wouldn't be what I call a warrior...more like a army supply clerk..

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164): Is it patriotic for Biden to take my money and give it to someone who won't work for theirs?

How is Vice-President Elect Biden is going to take your money?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164): Don't go quoting the US Constitution to me, either, young wipper snapper. Ypour friend Biden didn't even know the the Vice President is the President of the Senate at all times, not just when he is needed to break a tie vote. Biden didn't even know that is the only time the Vice President can vote in the Senate. Biden needs to read this from the US Constitution, Artical 1, Section 3;

Are you sure this wasn't Palin? Well, I suppose Biden probably spell a little better than you..

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 10): who the bloody hell do you think paid your wages whilst you were in the military?

And continues to pay his pension..

Quoting AirCop (Reply 178): Can't do that in Alaska, it would require a special election..

Actually it seems to rather murky according to the Anchorage Daily News.

http://www.adn.com/politics/v-printer/story/569836.html

She could appoint herself and run as an incumbent then in any possible special election.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 178): Boom operator in a tanker, wouldn't be what I call a warrior...more like a army supply clerk..

Unless you've ever done that I suggest an apology is in order. Flying the boom on a tanker is no easy feat. Beyond easy to damage or destroy millions of dollars worth of equipment or possible cause the cancellation of a mission that the ground pounders might be counting on.

http://www.elections.alaska.gov/2004oep/bm/measure_4.pdf

This is the ballot measure that was passed in 2004 that requires a special election. Ballot measure 4 passed with a yes vote of 55.6%

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164): Freedom isn't free, my friend, and freeloaders don't deserve a free ride.

So, by extension, you're suggesting any American who hasn't volunteered for service is a freeloader?

This country was founded on the notion that inalienable rights and liberty exist for all who fall under "we the people". I would hope that at some point in the course of your service you realized you were part of a greater whole, rather than the select minority with the honor of having been in the military. The people who take time to engage causes dear to them, serve food in soup kitchens, clean up their neighborhoods on the weekend, rebuild their local churches or schools, go to medical school, join a fire brigade, start businesses with their own hard-earned, make a point of taking their kids to DC at least twice before 18, and drive their families up and down our heavenly coasts and through our vast mountain lands, are no less patriotic than you. That's only to name a few examples...

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter): Also, that the clothing scandal is bigger than what has been reported. I'm sure now that the election is over, a whole lot of what we didn't know...is about to be known.

It must be pretty easy for someone to dial up a reporter and start spewing comments without bothering to give their name. Sorta like hollering insults from a moving vehicle. I'd find these accusations a little more believable if the people making them would have the guts to attach their names to them. We aren't talking about national security secrets here.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 170): or "they hate us for our freedom" and other ridiculous things. Usually, these people have never owned a passport, never traveled, yet are self-proclaimed experts on the rest of the world,

I believe they hate us for our freedoms, I own a passport, I travel regularly and while I wouldn't proclaim myself to be an expert on the rest of the world I know a restaurant in Sevastopol, Ukraine where as an American you will get a pretty chilly reception.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 172): That's what I never understand about Republicans, they love having the world's largest and most powerful military, but they don't want the high taxes that comes along with supporting that military.

If all we had to do was pay for the military our taxes would be nothing compared to what they are today.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 183): If all we had to do was pay for the military our taxes would be nothing compared to what they are today.

Then you wouldn't have any highways, air traffic control, airports, police/fire/CIA/NSA, customs, water, electric in rural areas, and of course Congress..

Quoting AirCop (Reply 184): Then you wouldn't have any highways, air traffic control, airports, police/fire/CIA/NSA, customs, water, electric in rural areas, and of course Congress..

Correct, but the gist of FlyPNS1's post was that somehow the military is the driving force behind the budget which could not be further from the truth.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 185): Correct, but the gist of FlyPNS1's post was that somehow the military is the driving force behind the budget which could not be further from the truth.

Well actually the driving force behind the budget are only three huge chunks of the pie: "discretionary" (read: pork-driven) spending, defense, and entitlements. I fully agree that there are plenty of areas in the defense budget that can be trimmed - but what about the needless social security payments being made to people who have never been below the poverty line their entire lives? Unless you're prepared to cut both, the discussion is over.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 186): I fully agree that there are plenty of areas in the defense budget that can be trimmed - but what about the needless social security payments being made to people who have never been below the poverty line their entire lives?

The only problem with that concept is that everyone working has paid into SS under a seperate payroll tax from their income tax. Like it or not they had money taken out of their checks and supposedly set aside. We both know that is a farce and that the money has already been spent but it doesn't change the fact they should at least get back what they paid in over the years plus the interest. That is only fair.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 187): We both know that is a farce and that the money has already been spent but it doesn't change the fact they should at least get back what they paid in over the years plus the interest. That is only fair.

I don't understand this. Our Canada Pension Plan is a self-funding, separate account -- it is not general revenue. The government determines the rate at which mandatory contributions are made, but that's it. Are you saying that all the SS money goes in the general revenue account? How could you let that happen?

Quoting Arrow (Reply 188): Are you saying that all the SS money goes in the general revenue account? How could you let that happen?

Yep, you have to go back to the great society programs, and in doing so will get a glimpse of the near future most likely. In 1965 President Johnson wanted to crank up Medicare as well as some other programs. The budget didn't have the money to support the growing Vietnam war, the space race, and the great society programs. He couldn't jack up taxes anymore since they were already fairly high. So he and the DNC led Congress came up with a new plan. From its inception SS had been "off budget" meaning the funds collected were held seperately from the general budget and managed by the SS administration. The excess money was just sitting there collecting interest. That kind of thing is abhorent to a politician, so a change in the law as made and with a stroke of the pen the SS fund became part of the general budget. Since the early 80's the government has been taking all money and issuing IOU's to the SS administration in its place with U.S. government backed securities. Of course this has the effect of making the budget deficits, going all the way back the 60's look much smaller than they really are, and in some peoples minds, think that we actually had a balanced budget or even more ridculous, a budget surplus in the 90's.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 189): The excess money was just sitting there collecting interest. That kind of thing is abhorent to a politician, so a change in the law as made and with a stroke of the pen the SS fund became part of the general budget.

Wow. I think they'd bring back the death penalty if any government up here did that. Most of the grousing here is over how high the premiums are (i.e. it creates a rather large surplus in the account -- not a bad thing in my view). I'm beginning to see why you get bent out of shape over entitlements; looks like you pissed away the savings account.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 185): Correct, but the gist of FlyPNS1's post was that somehow the military is the driving force behind the budget which could not be further from the truth.

It is the overwhelming driving force behind discretionary spending.

The President's 2008 budget had 1.114 trillion in discretionary spending. Of that, 481.4 billion for DoD, 145.2 billion Global War on Terror (Iraq/Afghanistan) and 39.4 billion for Department of Veterans Affairs. So approximately 60% of all discretionary spending goes to defense in one form or another (I exclude out homeland security, though some might include it). It's going to be pretty hard to control discretionary spending if you are unwilling to control defense spending.

Now, there is also the mandatory spending which was 1.788 trillion in the 2008 presidential budget which needs to be addressed too.

I have no idea if the Vancouver Sun is known to be a trashy newspaper or whether this is true or not. Any way this is the story.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/s...293cec-74e9-455a-b0c9-7fe07c95dc95

Sarah Palin offered $2 million to appear in porn film
Husband Todd offered $100,000 and a snowmobile if he'll co-star, says Florida adult film producer
Chris Parry, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 07, 2008

"Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has received her first job offer since failing in her bid to become vice-president of the United States, and it comes with a large cash offer. Florida-based porn director Cezar Capone has offered to pay Palin $2 million to appear in an adult film production.

Capone, who calls himself "the king of all MILF films," promises in an open letter on his website that the film would be distributed internationally, shot in high definition, and feature a "beautiful mother recognized by all of America ... as the most desirable woman over 40."

To prove he's serious about the offer, Capone says he's prepared to hold the money in escrow immediately.

To sweeten the deal, Palin's husband Todd has been offered a co-starring role in the production, for which Capone would be "prepared to kick in an extra $100,000," and a new Arctic Cat snowmobile.

Palin hasn't publicly responded to the offer, which was sent to her administration office in Juneau, Alaska on Nov. 6.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 191): It is the overwhelming driving force behind discretionary spending.

Defense spending is not discretionary spending. In fact defense spending is one of the few mandated expenditures in the Constitution.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 191): Now, there is also the mandatory spending which was 1.788 trillion in the 2008 presidential budget which needs to be addressed too.

Only Congress can address that since by law it is untouchable without accompanying legislation.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 183): Quoting BN747 (Thread starter): Also, that the clothing scandal is bigger than what has been reported. I'm sure now that the election is over, a whole lot of what we didn't know...is about to be known. It must be pretty easy for someone to dial up a reporter and start spewing comments without bothering to give their name

You're mistakenly assuming that the reporter is going to take those remarks at face value and not check up on them or ask the source probing questions.

For good or ill, that's the way the political game is played. "Anonymous" sources (the reporter obviously knows who it is, but not identifying the person is part of the understanding in negotiating the story) feed reporters all manner of information all the time -- it's up to the reporter to sift through the material, check it out, and deem what -- if anything -- is newsworthy. Arguably, attacks by aides to a former presidential candidate aimed squarely at the ticket's high-profile VP contender are relevant.

Forget about that angle for a moment. Didn't it strike you as odd that Palin didn't utter a peep at McCain's concession speech?

Check out Billy O's talking points from Thursday or Friday, where he defends Carl Cameron's piece. In a rare moment of journalistic integrity, Bill says that the show runs on news and not entertainment (let's give him the benefit of the doubt). Despite his stated contempt for such anonymous attacks, he ends up standing by Fox's story. And this is Fox, mind you, so the critical follow-up work that Carl no doubt performed led him to conclude that the story held enough water to go on the air.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 183): I'd find these accusations a little more believable if the people making them would have the guts to attach their names to them.

As I said, the game simply doesn't work that way. Whoever fed Cameron the info still has to put food on the table. Or put another way, he/she has a reputation (read "ass") to cover. Gutless? perhaps, but it's been working that way for ages.

Again, the onus of verifying the story and seeing if it has "legs" falls to the reporter. Just because a source said something doesn't mean that those quotes are gonna see the light of day. I don't think Cameron would willingly allow himself to be used as anybody's mouthpiece; in this case, at least.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 188): Are you saying that all the SS money goes in the general revenue account? How could you let that happen?

Because the American electorate has only partial, retroactive control over the budget process. There's a lot of shit in Washington we would rather not let happen but is done behind our backs nonetheless.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 194): it strike you as odd that Palin didn't utter a peep at McCain's concession speech?

They wouldn't let her, she wanted to, but McCain senior advisors said no.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 194): You're mistakenly assuming that the reporter is going to take those remarks at face value and not check up on them or ask the source probing questions.

Again, we are not talking about national security issues here where someone could end up in jail or lose their job. Sen. McCain lost the election, their jobs are already lost. So if you are a reporter and someone starts feeding you these kinds of details, why would you let them hide? Unless of course the person making the statements if afraid of having to back them up in public....

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 194): Forget about that angle for a moment. Didn't it strike you as odd that Palin didn't utter a peep at McCain's concession speech?

I didn't see the speech so I have no idea what went on. I didn't see President Elect Obama's speech either. By that point it just didn't matter anymore.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 197): Again, we are not talking about national security issues here where someone could end up in jail or lose their job.

End up in jail? Not likely. Lose their job and/or damage prospects for a future one? Very likely. It's a calculus that the source has to weigh out. You have to remember that politics is a bloodsport.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 197): So if you are a reporter and someone starts feeding you these kinds of details, why would you let them hide?

You'll have to ask Carl Cameron. Sometimes the content of the story is more important than having to publicly identify your source.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 197): Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 194): Forget about that angle for a moment. Didn't it strike you as odd that Palin didn't utter a peep at McCain's concession speech? I didn't see the speech so I have no idea what went on.

I suggest you take a look at it. McCain came off as very classy. Palin,though, did not utter one word. Forget about the tradition that Veep candidates don't make any concession remarks; this woman's star power was certainly enough to supersede such stuffy protocol. If you believe the papers, she had her speech ready but McCain's people muzzled her. The lines of communication must have been pretty shredded and/or the mutual animosity must have reached a critical mass for the McCain camp to take such a cold step.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 198): Lose their job and/or damage prospects for a future one? Very likely. It's a calculus that the source has to weigh out. You have to remember that politics is a bloodsport.

Then that should be the chance they take by speaking out. If we are not talking about whistle blowing or some other sort of story that carries legal or security ramifications, then Cameron should have named the names. I think less of him, and the others that have been reporting these stories because they didn't.