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N867DA
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:32 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 248):
Up until last week, she deserved all the criticism directed at her.

Very true. But this past election has received coverage that should only be deserved for Hollywood break-ups and Paris Hilton's broken toenail. The TV stations stacked the cards. If FOX News and conservative talk radio do their job, at least both ends of the spectrum are covered.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 249):
She might be the right person at the wrong time. Let her kids grow up and run again next time.

I hope she'll be the wrong person all the time until she drops those dreadful ah...what do they call them? Family values?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:36 am



Quoting N867DA (Reply 250):
I hope she'll be the wrong person all the time until she drops those dreadful ah...what do they call them? Family values?

 checkmark 
Although she is young for a politician, she is sooooooooooo far behind the learning curve. Plus being isolated up in Alaska I doubt she'll ever be taken seriously on the national stage and would be a total embarrassment internationally. Worse than Dubya.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 250):
that should only be deserved for Hollywood break-ups and Paris Hilton's broken toenail.

The McCain/Palin campaign had a circus element to therefore it was treated as entertainment by the press.

Keep Sarah & family in Alaska.
 
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stasisLAX
Posts: 2974
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:03 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 249):
She might be the right person at the wrong time. Let her kids grow up and run again next time.

With Democrat Mark Begich behind convicted Senator Ted Stevens by 3,300 (Alaska election officials said almost 63,000 untallied absentee and early votes were left to be tallied as well as 18,000 questionable ballots still left to be examined). Election officials have until this Friday to finish their count.

I think that Governor Palin will run in the special election for Ted Steven's possible unexpired term. It would be her ticket back into the national spotlight, and would give her the needed federal government experience for her to successfully run for the Republic nomination for President in 2012.
 
N867DA
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:15 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 252):
It would be her ticket back into the national spotlight

It would be a ticket back into the spotlight, but for how long? The only reason she will be publicly identifiable is for her failed campaign. Besides that, how prominent are Senators? I don't know the Senators from say, North Dakota or Colorado. Failed candidates have made triumphant climbs to power (Nixon, anyone? Reagan?) but Palin may have a different kind of Kiss of Death on her. I think her only chance at gaining ground on the national stage is if Obama completely screws up his term. Then people may scratch their heads and wonder what happened to the pretty Alaskan that told them about the evils of Obama.
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 am

An extract published by Yahoo of her interview with Fox:

"I think the Republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last eight years, that Americans were kind of shaking their heads like going, wait a minute, how did we run up a $10 trillion debt in a Republican administration? How have there been blunders with war strategy under a Republican administration? If we're talking change, we want to get far away from what it was that the present administration represented and that is to a great degree what the Republican Party at the time had been representing," Palin said in a story published Sunday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081111/ap_on_el_pr/palin

 checkmark  I agree with pretty much everything there.

Now the question is - what do you propose, Governor Palin? What, in your opinion, caused the running up of the debt and the, ahem, "blunders with war strategy" (what the heck is a "war strategy"?)? These are some of the questions many American voters would have liked you to ponder publicly while you were running.
 
Rara
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 57):
Same for Obama my friend ...



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 62):
Works both ways my friend.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164):
Freedom isn't free, my friend

What's this "my friend" thing? I noticed McCain used it all the time. Is that the newest fad around US conservatives?
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:44 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164):
Hold on there my very young friend. Paying taxes has nothing to do with patriotism. While I agree, it is the duty of every American to support the country, paying taxes is a requirement, not a voluntary action. Being a patriot is being a volunteer to go and do something for the country, like serving in the military (like I did for 22 years, and 3 wars).

Instead of calling every one your "friend", maybe you should avoid using sarcasm against them.

Your definition of patriotism is yours and yours only. Helping charities is patriotic, donating blood is patriotic, being respectful of people and their belongings at all times is patriotic. Patriotism can cover a million different actions on a daily basis that it is pointless to start sorting out what is and what is not. For that matter, the definition is also very much subjective.

In case you did not know, DocLightning's job is to save lives. He is a doctor and looks after teenagers, aka the future of your country, for better or worse. I call that patriotism.

You chose to serve in the military and that is very honourable. But that was your choice and no one else's. So no need to play that holier than thou card because it just does not cut it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164):
Don't go quoting the US Constitution to me, either, young wipper snapper. Ypour friend Biden didn't even know the the Vice President is the President of the Senate at all times, not just when he is needed to break a tie vote. Biden didn't even know that is the only time the Vice President can vote in the Senate. Biden needs to read this from the US Constitution, Artical 1, Section 3;

Now how you manage to articulate Biden's ignorance with a conversation about patriotism is completely beyond me.

 Smile

As for calling the Doc a "young wipper snapper", this is simply laughable.
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3739
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:48 am



Quoting Rara (Reply 255):
What's this "my friend" thing? I noticed McCain used it all the time.

I like this one better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mBi7d6e5KI
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:03 am



Quoting N867DA (Reply 246):
During the election cycle I didn't like Palin at all. Now my Palin like-o-meter has swung the other way. She definitely doesn't deserve all this negative publicity. She ran. She fought a spirited campaign and lost. Now let her return to AK and do what she apparently does best -- govern. For all her shortcomings on the national stage, Alaskans seem to love her. That ought to be enough to lift her chin up and give her a bounce in her step so he can report to work each day.

I agree. she reminds me of my sister.

Sarah Palin will be all right, everyone. Don't you worry about a thing.
 
Superfly
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:11 am

If Sarah Palin makes a comeback, will she dig up that Joe the wannabe plumber guy too?
 
BN747
Topic Author
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:24 am

Just watched Palin's interview with Greta Van Sustern...

What bothers me most is Greta says 'I checked and crossed checked with sources who were in the room when you were being prepped....and the Africa thing never came up" "I checked as recently as yesterday..and nothing..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vidQ8jXAb5I

My problem with that is...well, Greta, it was your Fox colleague, Carl Cameron who broke the story...why didn't YOU consult with Cameron and who told him if dead on accuracy is what you're after???

We're suppose to accept your word 'that you checked and checked...and that's it? Carl's office is just down the hall...did you check with him? She had every opportunity to say she had met with the reporter who broke the story...BUT nada. No chance.

Palin spoke of Darfur and 'actrocities'...but it was obvious to 'informed minds'...that she'd prepared this answer, she was not speaking in terms of her own 'acquired knowledge' of Africa. It was the same hollow/blank response when our favored Journalism Major (Palin) couldn't name a newspaper/magazine that she reads to keep abreast of issues (after several tries). It is very obvious that it would be very very easy.. for just about any reporter throw Palin off her feet with some rather commonly known knowledge if said reporter wanted to.

Palin is simply not a deep person...she doesn't get out much (Moose hunting doesn't count).

Palin went on to say 'people can see that we're not pretentious people...'

Ummm the famed photo of her daughter slinging that $700 Louis Vuitton bag is all over the internet--STILL. The montage of Palin's shoes is a site that would raise Imelda Marcos from dead (she is dead isn't she?).

When asked 'Why do you think you didn't capture the support of more women'...she answered she didn't know. But a few minutes later, she says ' perhaps being a conservative woman (plus the Roe v wade thing) is the divide between me and large numbers of women.'

Okay, Palin's not deep thinker nor multi-leveled academically speaking. But what she clearly is .. is a hustler, she's the type to suit up and jump into a football game with some guys drippin' in mud. That's the quality I think that appeals to the Nascar crowd. But being a hustler is the stronger quality because this can-do (one way or the other) approach is evens out the race against other contenders who are better educated or better prepared or with greater resources. We've seen the movie a million times - the plain clothes kid vs the prep school kid (and all his daddy's millions). And I have nothing against the 'hustler'...except..you can only hustle 'so far'. I don't think you can hustle (or con) your way into 1600 Pennsylvania and stay for 4 years. (Dubya had his bro as Gov in the deciding state...to prove my point).

If Palin puts her mind to this 2012 benchmark..she can clear it. but what she has to do.. is do what she's avoided so far...SHE HAS TO HIT THE BOOKS. She must be able to demonstrate a wide range of knowledge..to get those women she didn't get, she must show thing that she can play the 'intell game'.

She also must get out more. She needs to know what minority cultures exist where in this vast landscape. Understanding Alaskans alone just ain't gonna cut it!

I'm certain other than MLK, she knows nothing about black life in America. I bet she thinks Taco Bell is Mexican owned thus the extent of Mexican/Latin American influences in the country. And yep, Sushi and how Japanese like whale meat's gotta be the extent of her Asian knowledge. She needs to spend a month in each of these cities - Boston, New York, Miami, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

She doesn't need to do Texas or any Red State...(in the youtube video - next to it was a video entitled 'Palin has the White Trash Vote' - and it's a serious report, not a joke!) But we all knew going in that's who Palin was sent to bond with..and she did so with ease. But nationally, America is made up of more than Rednecks and frontiersmen. And that otherside doesn't need to hear 'Dagnabbit and youbetcha' for 45 mins! It needs to see a dazzling display of brain power. The real deal.

So if Sarah is gonna play big leagues now, and no one can stop her...I hope she knows what's in-store, because all reporters aren't gonna be Greta Van Sustern and sure enough, she won't be the only woman in the round...which means blood will be spilled-


Oh...and Levi STILL HAS TO marry her daughter, Bristol...if he doesn't and decides to cut and run... EVERYONE's gonna know it was all a scam to quiet the sh*tstorm that was gonna stir over her unwed pregnant teen daughter. Amazing, this kid's future and Palin's political future joined at the hip.


BN747

Quoting Mariner (Reply 245):

But I'm from Hollywood, I'm used to very expensive make-overs and my point remains

And Mariner, I'm in the thick of Hollywood..I know LPs & UPMs who can make a penny dance a mile. It's easy to go over budget in this biz..but on the preMaDonnas have that luxury to do so..and be asked onto subsequent project. Any first-time, above-the-line producer who pulls a 'Palin' will be working the indy circles afterwards (unless his box office receipts kicks ass)...but then again, it's extremely rare for a 'first-time, above-the-line producer' to really be calling the shots (Indy's excepted) -- that only happens when they bring a big chunk (if not all) the financing to the table...but then again..if he brings that big of a nut..he can 'preMaDonna' all he wants -- who's gonna say something?

[Edited 2008-11-10 23:35:17]
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:03 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 220):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 219):
You can always e-mail him and ask him if he stands by his story. I suppose that's one advantage of the Internet age.

And of course he will, but that does not make it any more accurate.

There are such things as follow-up questions.
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:34 pm

Just checking in: any substantiation to the claims made against Palin yet? Anything? Anything? Bueller?

Didn’t think so. More despicable character assassination tactics.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 244):
One thing Sarah Palin does show is that it's OK for housewives from small towns with babes in arms to be involved in government at all levels, and that's one more crack in the glass ceiling.

Really good point, Dougloid. You know, this is a good point. She is indeed a role model and someone who will encourage the forgotten Americans, the silent majority, to get involved on a grass roots level. Her visibility is empowering to women everywhere. And the suburban vote, particularly among women, that went more for Obama, may have the wake-up call it needs. And the way she has done it, with grace, class and dignity even when being completely trashed by the media and HER OWN PARTY hacks, is a lesson for all of us. I know I’d have a hard time maintaining composure. She just smiles and rolls with it and that drives them crazy—love it.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 254):
Now the question is - what do you propose, Governor Palin?

That’s a good question. Maybe we’ll find out. I think the conservatives on the right will reclaim their party and she may have a part to play in that resurgence. But fundamentally, she was absolutely correct. She was the one who saved the McCain campaign from being a total collapse. McCain was never a conservative, he shouldn’t have won the nomination and the party needs to revamp the primary process. He voted with Bush on everything, never turned down a chance to spend, never denied a chance to sellout his party, or as he would call it “reaching across the aisle.”

It’s quite remarkable actually that she was able to stay on that razor’s edge of being on the McCain ticket yet still keep her identity and conservative beliefs. That’s pretty damn politically savvy but her critics still denounce her as a dunce.

I have read countless articles in the past week about what a disaster the Republican Party is. There are too many voices, prominent true conservative ones, out there that have been vehement in their condemnation of the Republicans, the leaks, the internecine fighting, and the utter and complete failure of the McCain campaign and the “status quo” as Palin put it, for the past 8 years. She, and those voices, are 100% correct.

The Republican party needs people who aren’t career politicians, aren’t East Coast bluebloods, aren’t necessarily Ivy leaguers, but people who are real people, who have lived American lives, raising their families, and are in touch with the real America out there. There is much discussion given to the growing so-called “culture war” but in reality, I think this is a war between Washington elites and, well, the rest of America.

Palin’s presence on the national scene has ripped that scab off pretty clearly, and the polarity of the responses we’ve all witnessed only serves as testament to that.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 164):
Hold on there my very young friend. Paying taxes has nothing to do with patriotism. While I agree, it is the duty of every American to support the country, paying taxes is a requirement, not a voluntary action. Being a patriot is being a volunteer to go and do something for the country, like serving in the military (like I did for 22 years, and 3 wars).

Are you suggesting that the draftees were not patriots? That's where your logic leads.
 
slider
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:44 pm

 
RJdxer
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:07 pm



Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
We're suppose to accept your word 'that you checked and checked...and that's it? Carl's office is just down the hall...did you check with him?

Was Carl in the room when the Africa statement was made? If not why bother to check with him since he wasn't there when it supposedly happened?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
Palin is simply not a deep person...she doesn't get out much (Moose hunting doesn't count).

Ah....when the original charges end up not holding water where do we go......

Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
Ummm the famed photo of her daughter slinging that $700 Louis Vuitton bag is all over the internet--STILL.

I know of several women both at work and neighbors that have at least one very expensive purse including my wife, my oldest daughter will get hers when she turns 21. You seem to have an obsession with private money being spent on someone. Style over substance, that's the liberal way.
 
slider
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:49 pm

 
AGM100
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:06 pm

You guys are still going on about Palin ? Why ? Why do you care ? Sen Obama won ....

They are talking about clothes ? While Michelle Obama flys in her own privately charterd aircraft ? The Obama's needed 2 chartered aircraft ? And the left is talking about some clothing ? $300 million dollars raised on a fraudulant web donation sight for Obama and you guys are worried about some clothing ?

What a sham the democrats have become .... what a total loss the party has become. Its a complete embarrasment. The party of JFK has become a complete cesspool of spineless hypocrites ! Only thing more embarrassing is that the spineless republicans actually lost to these jellyfish. Pathetic .
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:12 pm

It has been effectively proven that the accusations against Palin were lies. I think that now is the time that the reporters (especially Carl Cameron) who reported the accusations reveal their sources.

Reporters will protest that "we must protect our sources". I would normally agree. The right of whistleblowers and concerned citizens to protection themselves while airing problems is a legitimate one.

But here is a case where campaign insiders, motivated by a desire to blame someone else for their failures, manipulated the media to being their own attack dog. If I were the reporter, I'd be pretty damned pissed off. You don't lie to the press and then expect the press to defend you, do you? Aparently, that is the case in Washington.

Palin did not lose the election for the Republicans. McCain lost it. Dumb decisions by McCain and his campaign managers, from not expanding on the Rev Wright issue to his sophomoric bail-out behaviour. Had he stood up against the bailout, he could have pointed at Obama and Bush on November 4th and said "Where is the stability you promised us?"

I hate to say it, but McCain did not deserve to win the election. His best decision was Palin - and I hope she has a good path ahead of her. But McCain performed EXACTLY as we conservatives feared he would back during the primaries.
 
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mariner
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:27 pm



Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
Any first-time, above-the-line producer who pulls a 'Palin' will be working the indy circles afterwards (unless his box office receipts kicks ass)...but then again, it's extremely rare for a 'first-time, above-the-line producer' to really be calling the shots (Indy's excepted)

The RNC wasn't the producer, indy or otherwise. The RNC was the studio.

mariner
 
slider
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:40 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 267):
They are talking about clothes ? While Michelle Obama flys in her own privately charterd aircraft ? The Obama's needed 2 chartered aircraft ? And the left is talking about some clothing ? $300 million dollars raised on a fraudulant web donation sight for Obama and you guys are worried about some clothing ?

What, what? Why didn't we hear about this? I didn't read that in the media?

*crickets chirping*

 Wink
 
AGM100
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:10 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 270):
What, what? Why didn't we hear about this? I didn't read that in the media?

*crickets chirping*

I did , and I dont really care. She should get her own airplane. We would not expect her to fly public airlines with the kids ... but lets just be fair about the Palin thing thats all.
 
Charles79
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:22 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 267):
What a sham the democrats have become .... what a total loss the party has become. Its a complete embarrasment. The party of JFK has become a complete cesspool of spineless hypocrites ! Only thing more embarrassing is that the spineless republicans actually lost to these jellyfish. Pathetic .

Welcome to my world, the independent voter!  Big grin

Neither party can claim a higher morale ground, not the spend today tax tomorrow democrats or the ...well, spend today tax tomorrow republicans! I mean there's little to differentiate modern day republicans from their democratic counterparts, other than their positions on some social views (gay rights, abortion, evolution, etc). The right keeps claiming that neither McCain nor Bush are "true" Republicans yet they have been the Presidential nominees for 3 elections in a row, so obviously the base thinks they are. So either both sides are hypocrites or their candidates are pulling a fast one on them.

Quoting Slider (Reply 270):

What, what? Why didn't we hear about this? I didn't read that in the media?

I suggest you get comfy cause you won't hear it for a while, if ever. Why would the media attack their Messiah while their honeymoon is not yet over?

What I want to see is how they treat him when he starts to revert on campaign promises, will they look the other way or call him on it?
 
AGM100
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 272):
So either both sides are hypocrites or their candidates are pulling a fast one on them.

The Dems go further left ... the Repubs goes further left ... what choice do you have. ? Sad
 
Confuscius
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:57 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mBi7d6e5KI

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 267):
What a sham the democrats have become .... what a total loss the party has become. Its a complete embarrasment.

Obama/Biden 52.6% 365 (electoral)
Bush/McCain/Palin  duck  46.1% 162 (electoral)


U.S. Senate (D) 57* (R) 40 Dems +6
U.S. House (D) 256 (R) 175 Dems +20
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5566
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:03 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 268):
Palin did not lose the election for the Republicans. McCain lost it. Dumb decisions by McCain and his campaign managers, from not expanding on the Rev Wright issue to his sophomoric bail-out behaviour. Had he stood up against the bailout, he could have pointed at Obama and Bush on November 4th and said "Where is the stability you promised us?"

I'll agree with you on this. McCain made a lot of mistakes and in the end it was many of his decisions that cost him the election. Though I don't think the Rev Wright issue would have done any good. The American people wanted to hear solutions to their problems, not sniping about Obama's church.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 268):
His best decision was Palin - and I hope she has a good path ahead of her.

I'll disagree with you here. Palin was a mistake and McCain knows it. Selecting someone solely to pander to your base, while alienating the moderate swing voters you desperately need was foolish. McCain had a real experience advantage he could claim over Obama, but the moment he selected Palin that advantage was gone. Even worse, Palin was in many ways a female version of Bush...down home folksy nice, but clueless about the nitty-gritty details of how the economy and world work.
 
AGM100
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:17 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 274):
Obama/Biden 52.6% 365 (electoral)
Bush/McCain/Palin 46.1% 162 (electoral)


U.S. Senate (D) 57* (R) 40 Dems +6
U.S. House (D) 256 (R) 175 Dems +20

Ya I know your team won ... congradulations. Now what ?
 
slider
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RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:32 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 275):
I'll disagree with you here. Palin was a mistake and McCain knows it. Selecting someone solely to pander to your base, while alienating the moderate swing voters you desperately need was foolish.

I think most of the poli sci world that is intimately familiar with the Republican party would diametrically be opposed to your opinion.

The whole reason McCain lost was that he wasn’t attached TO the base! He was THE candidate who claimed to get the moderate swing voters. But the point of the matter and the truth of tracking all previous election almanacs is that it is indeed the base that wins elections. The conservative base, ala the Reagan generation, was totally alienated by McCain and always was. He knew that and therefore picking her was brilliant—politically necessary certainly—but brilliant. Polls all shot up, they took the lead. She electrified the base, got people out of the woodwork, talk radio was abuzz and the previously taciturn Republican base, that was going to stay home in droves and with a seemingly defeatist attitude, came alive. The campaign picked up more contributions, more volunteers, more bodies in the ground game, after she was the pick. And no, this wasn’t the extreme ‘religious right’—it was normal middle American conservatives.

Pandering to the swing voters—the “mushy middle” as it’s been called—has not won any presidential election. So really, let’s dispel of this myth of the moderates and the notion that Palin’s downside was greater than the upshot, because that isn’t true.

Every major conservative column on Wed AM until even today has been dissecting this and the realization was instantaneous—the party is fumigating itself from the moderate spineless RINOs, the fiscally irresponsible career bureaucrats who’ve squandered conservative ideals for the sake of being on the take like every other loser in Washington. Time to clean house. And once they do that, and assuming they regroup and find a candidate, I think the party will have a rebirth. But it has to be done and the pendulum is once again swinging.

No, Palin wasn’t a mistake. McCain was the mistake. The most horrible run campaign was the mistake. That same campaign staff that’s now throwing her under the bus is a mistake. The blueblood elites dismissing one of Buckley’s 100 names in the Boston phonebook (as it were) is a mistake. But it will take time to come to fruition.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 277):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 275):
I'll disagree with you here. Palin was a mistake and McCain knows it. Selecting someone solely to pander to your base, while alienating the moderate swing voters you desperately need was foolish.

I think most of the poli sci world that is intimately familiar with the Republican party would diametrically be opposed to your opinion.

The whole reason McCain lost was that he wasn’t attached TO the base! He was THE candidate who claimed to get the moderate swing voters. But the point of the matter and the truth of tracking all previous election almanacs is that it is indeed the base that wins elections. The conservative base, ala the Reagan generation, was totally alienated by McCain and always was. He knew that and therefore picking her was brilliant—politically necessary certainly—but brilliant. Polls all shot up, they took the lead. She electrified the base, got people out of the woodwork, talk radio was abuzz and the previously taciturn Republican base, that was going to stay home in droves and with a seemingly defeatist attitude, came alive. The campaign picked up more contributions, more volunteers, more bodies in the ground game, after she was the pick. And no, this wasn’t the extreme ‘religious right’—it was normal middle American conservatives.

Pandering to the swing voters—the “mushy middle” as it’s been called—has not won any presidential election. So really, let’s dispel of this myth of the moderates and the notion that Palin’s downside was greater than the upshot, because that isn’t true.

It depends on what Republican party you're talking about. It seems to me that there are a lot of centers of power right now that are claiming to be The Keepers Of The True Faith and all others are apostates and heretics.

It's your argument that the reason your party lost the election was because it had strayed from its base, but as an outsider it appears to be more like Humpty Dumpty trying to put himself back together again. Has anyone done any research on that point?

It's more likely that the Dems won the election than that the Reps lost it. There are no moderates in your party any more because you've driven them all off.

That makes for a smaller party with less muscle in the voting booth.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18985
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:18 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 132):
Yeah what an unimpressive resume he has,

Graduate of Columbia University
Graduate of Harvard Law School
President of the Harvard Law Review
Practiced Law as a Civil Rights Attorney
Illinois State Senator
Professor Univeristy of Chicago School of Law
US Senator

He's got an impressive resume, but he has next to zero experience in just about any issue of national importance and is on a very steep learning curve. If he were elected Lawyer in Chief I'd feel better; President? Not so much.
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:32 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 278):
It depends on what Republican party you're talking about. It seems to me that there are a lot of centers of power right now that are claiming to be The Keepers Of The True Faith and all others are apostates and heretics.

True enough. And sadly, it appears as if they’re going to have to burn the house down and rebuild it from scratch. The Republicans’ problem mirrors that of politics in general—the machine has overtaken principle, on both sides of the aisle. They’re in bed with special interests, big business, global interests that don’t serve our sovereignty, and a host of illegal and unconstitutional spending and initiatives, invasive laws, and everything under the sun instead of serving the people.

But in the case of the Republican party, they need to go back to basics—it was the Republican party that championed civil rights, small government, a strong defense (that SHOULD be used for defense), the elimination of barriers and regulation that allow the individual—that cornerstone of our republic—to achieve. Regulate judiciously, legislate sporadically, serve humbly. Sadly, that’s an indictment of all of government too.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 278):
It's more likely that the Dems won the election than that the Reps lost it. There are no moderates in your party any more because you've driven them all off.

First, a correction: it’s not MY party, I’ve been an independent for many years now and abandoned the Republican party once I realized that even WITH the conservative ideals, they were moving inexorably toward the expansion of government—spending, scope, scale, invasiveness. The facts bear me out.

But I think it’s a bit of both of those factors you cite. No question the Democrats raised more funds (some illegally I might add—another story that’s being summarily ignored by our watchdog media), ran a much better campaign, and the Republicans lost it with a weak campaign, lack of clarity in their message nor any cohesion among the party.

I think there are many moderates in the party though…they all voted for Reagan, after all. They’re out there. Mobilizing them is the trick.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6800
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:42 pm



Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
She also must get out more. She needs to know what minority cultures exist where in this vast landscape. Understanding Alaskans alone just ain't gonna cut it!

Caught a few glimpses of the interview. The constant, "you betchas" and "Doggoneits" were really ......redneck, or hokey, for lack of a better word. However, in her defense, they are not a huge differences from the space filling, longsh "aaaaaaaannnnnnnd's that Obama uses.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
Ummm the famed photo of her daughter slinging that $700 Louis Vuitton bag is all over the internet--STILL.

not sure what $700 bad this was, but aren't those at all consignment stores?  Wink

Quoting BN747 (Reply 260):
Oh...and Levi STILL HAS TO marry her daughter, Bristol...if he doesn't and decides to cut and run... EVERYONE's gonna know it was all a scam to quiet the sh*tstorm that was gonna stir over her unwed pregnant teen daughter. Amazing, this kid's future and Palin's political future joined at the hip.

Well said. Truth is that at the end ofh te day, the only person REALLY getting shafted is Levi.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:44 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 281):
Well said. Truth is that at the end ofh te day, the only person REALLY getting shafted is Levi.

Well let's be honest I am sure Levi thought he won the lotto when it looked like the McCain/Palin ticket might take the white house. Now all his dreams have been dashed on the rocks and he is still stuck with a pregnant girlfriend and being in Alaska instead of DC.
 
Charles79
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:01 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 280):
True enough. And sadly, it appears as if they’re going to have to burn the house down and rebuild it from scratch. The Republicans’ problem mirrors that of politics in general—the machine has overtaken principle, on both sides of the aisle. They’re in bed with special interests, big business, global interests that don’t serve our sovereignty, and a host of illegal and unconstitutional spending and initiatives, invasive laws, and everything under the sun instead of serving the people.

Surely one of the best posts I've seen from you Slider. Both parties received copious sums of money from special interests and that's how the benches decide on new laws--by the size of the contribution. Interestingly enough, though, when I voted for McCain in the primaries in 2000 I did so because he was always distancing himself from big corporations, even taking them to court for illegal transactions (i.e. the Boeing USAF tanker fiasco). Had that McCain been running in 2008 my voting decision would have been so much easier to make....

Quoting Slider (Reply 280):
But in the case of the Republican party, they need to go back to basics—it was the Republican party that championed civil rights, small government, a strong defense (that SHOULD be used for defense), the elimination of barriers and regulation that allow the individual—that cornerstone of our republic—to achieve. Regulate judiciously, legislate sporadically, serve humbly. Sadly, that’s an indictment of all of government too.

If one of the two parties we have right now really stood for this then they would have won by a real landslide. But when the Republican party decided that it needed to court the extreme religious right in order to win it alienated a lot of independent moderates like myself. Then the current administration went on a spending spree and suddenly they made even less sense.

Now the ball is in the court of the Democratic party; they have a mandate for change, so will have to wait and see the shape of this change.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:12 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 282):
Now all his dreams have been dashed on the rocks and he is still stuck with a pregnant girlfriend and being in Alaska instead of DC.

Levi - "sex on skates" - Johnston?

The New York magazine has been keeping tabs on him:

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/10/the_hunting_of_levi_johnston.html

If he needs to chill for a while, he could come down here to New Zealand. Hang out at my place.  Smile

mariner
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 7940
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 262):
Just checking in: any substantiation to the claims made against Palin yet? Anything? Anything? Bueller?



Quoting Slider (Reply 264):
Aha, the Africa lie is starting to ooze out...



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 265):
Ah....when the original charges end up not holding water where do we go......

No tan de prisa, amigos (not so fast)...

Any of you catch, the Palin interview this morning with Matt Lauer on The Today Show?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/27662024#27662024

The difference between and interview with Fox (Greta van Sustern) and a REAL network...the questions are all softballs.

Matt Lauer asks Palin, 'Did the McCain infact restraint and keep you from Media access?'

Palin's answer.." ummm...well I'll let you speak to those anonymous sources from the McCain camp on that one.."

So the very sources who have exposed her lack of global knowledge, spilled the beans on her spending charade..are to be trusted with replies! Wouldn't they be the last ones to consult if 'according to you (Palin) that they can't be trusted? Answer the question..


Like I said..she's a hustler (a good BS'er)..but if she doesn't hit those books..she's done for! She'll never get further than the Hillbilliy Vote (and few fans she has here on A.net).

Oh, and keep coming with the interviews Sarah (2 in 24 hours)... you're just shooting yourself in the foot! But it is hard to let go of that spot light isn't it? And Alaska is just entering that 6 months of darkness....yup!

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 267):
You guys are still going on about Palin ? Why ? Why do you care ? Sen Obama won ....

Because in 70-some days..you'll be saying..."You guys are still going on about Bush ? Why ? Why do you care ? President Obama is in"

And what's the fastest way to get ANOTHER George W Bush...encourage people to forget about the 1st one. Same with Palin...'forget her..' so that when she comes back...she'll be re-packaged and 'new' again..

..nopew, I say keep and eye on 'em....and never forget. Why invite another disaster..when you don't have to..

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 268):
from not expanding on the Rev Wright issue to his sophomoric bail-out behaviour.

Hoping to stoke racist flames? Nope would not have worked...it would have been smelled a mile way (along with desperation).

Quoting Mariner (Reply 269):
The RNC wasn't the producer, indy or otherwise. The RNC was the studio.

Wrong..either it's an indy prod or a studio prod..the RNC was certainly the producing Studio and Palin the A-list talent that went priMaDonna on 'em (which no one could control)..and couldn't be put back together again. Handing the studio a staggering lost-

BN747
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:42 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 279):
He's got an impressive resume, but he has next to zero experience in just about any issue of national importance and is on a very steep learning curve. If he were elected Lawyer in Chief I'd feel better; President? Not so much.

I think the staff he picks for the different secretaries will be key. Current buzz word on the web has it that Obama is pretty serious about who will do what. The Economist seems reasonably confident that centrists and some Republicans will be offered positions, which I think is very good news.

I would say you can form a serious opinion about a leader based on who he/she picks as his main advisors and delegates. Fingers crossed.

 Smile
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:21 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 285):
Wrong..either it's an indy prod or a studio prod.

I know a number of indy producers who do deals with studios.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 285):
the RNC was certainly the producing Studio and Palin the A-list talent that went priMaDonna on 'em

I'm happy to see that we now agree.

mariner
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 7940
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:42 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 287):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 285):
Wrong..either it's an indy prod or a studio prod.

I know a number of indy producers who do deals with studios.

Oh absolutely, EVERY prod starts out in one camp or the other - of course you'd rather be on a stoody prod (they never run outta cash--payday is always on-time)...indies are the way to go if you're in it for 'other' than the pay check. But in the end, the studio is the gate keeper...you can't get to 3000 screens without 'em. You can 'four-wall' it...but the end result will be light years from the ending you'd desire. Indies dealing with Stoodies is the ideal set up...autonomy and a negative pick up in the end. Only downside...your pic knocks one outta the park...everyone gets RICH but YOU!


BN747
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5566
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:57 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 277):
But the point of the matter and the truth of tracking all previous election almanacs is that it is indeed the base that wins elections.

Of course, you need the base to win, but you need moderates too. Neither base (Republican or Democrat) is large enough to win by itself at the general election level.

While I'll agree that Palin helped the base, she destroyed any chance of appealing to moderates. While many conservatives might have seen Palin as the second coming of Christ, many moderates saw Palin as the second coming of George Bush...not a recipe for success.

Quoting Slider (Reply 277):
Polls all shot up, they took the lead.

For about a week, things were great. But once people got to know Palin, it all went south fast. When your VP pick has only a 38% favorable rating, you've made a bad choice.

Quoting Slider (Reply 277):
The conservative base, ala the Reagan generation, was totally alienated by McCain and always was.

The problem is that McCain has acted closer to conservative ideals than the guy they actually elected in the previous two elections. McCain's ideas on reducing gov't corruption and reducing pork spending are far more conservative than anything coming from the Bush administration.

Now admittedly on some social issues, McCain was more moderate, but that was driven by practical considerations. McCain (circa 2000 and earlier) recognized that you have to make some compromises if you want to get anything done. The right-wing conservatives didn't want to compromise and therefore achieved little, except for lots of spending.

Of course, anyone who calls themselves a Reagan conservative doesn't really know what being a conservative really means. Reagan really wasn't a fiscal conservative as he allowed tons of spending and racked up a huge deficit.

Quoting Slider (Reply 277):
Pandering to the swing voters—the “mushy middle” as it’s been called—has not won any presidential election.

You don't need to pander to the middle to win them. Both Reagan and Clinton won the swing vote because they appealed to the middle while also appealing to their respective bases. Both won their elections (and reelections) with ease. GWB, on the other hand, pandered more to the right and barely won (losing the popular the vote in the 1st election).
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:22 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 285):
The difference between and interview with Fox (Greta van Sustern) and a REAL network...the questions are all softballs.

Matt Lauer asks Palin, 'Did the McCain infact restraint and keep you from Media access?'

Palin's answer.." ummm...well I'll let you speak to those anonymous sources from the McCain camp on that one.."

So the very sources who have exposed her lack of global knowledge, spilled the beans on her spending charade..are to be trusted with replies! Wouldn't they be the last ones to consult if 'according to you (Palin) that they can't be trusted? Answer the question..


Like I said..she's a hustler (a good BS'er)..but if she doesn't hit those books..she's done for! She'll never get further than the Hillbilliy Vote (and few fans she has here on A.net).

I just can not stand the sound of her voice much more. IMHO I feel she is still trying not to step on anyones toes, so to say. And she should grow a pair and actually give an answer on of these days.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:25 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 285):
So the very sources who have exposed her lack of global knowledge, spilled the beans on her spending charade..are to be trusted with replies! Wouldn't they be the last ones to consult if 'according to you (Palin) that they can't be trusted? Answer the question..

Evidently you don't understand the reply that says "no comment". Good for her. No sense airing dirty laundry for the voyueristic crowd such as yourself to get excited over. Still waiting for the sources that back up the rumor mill you keep stoking here.
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:47 pm

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/11/12/palin/print.html

A good column by Camille Paglia. They're always well written, and insightful. Her take on Palin throughout this entire affair has been especially intriguing from a feminist viewpoint. I give many of her opinions credence as well and would agree with her contention that the whirlwind will swirl and turn back upon her critics.
 
FruteBrute
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:40 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:06 am

Hey Palin today said that if God wanted her to be in the Senate she would be willing. :lol: :lol:

Oh really now!?!?! Unreal. Yeah, "God" cares about you in the Senate or not. Gag!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_el_se/palin_senate_9

Quote:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said Wednesday she would consider serving in the Senate if God gave her the opportunity and Alaskans wanted her to take the job.

Pressed in a separate interview with CNN's Larry King about whether she would serve out her term as governor, Palin said, "I will do what the people of Alaska want me to do."

She added, however, "if they call an audible on me, and if they say they want me in another position, I'm going to do it. ... My life is in God's hands. If he's got doors open for me, that I believe are in our state's best interest, the nation's best interest, I'm going to go through those doors."

 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:33 am

Hoax. Just how gullible are you people? First the dinosaur garbage now this. Are you folks on the left so hateful you will believe everything you see or hear that confirms your negative viewpoints of a political oponent.
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:16 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 290):
And she should grow a pair and actually give an answer on of these days.

Watch the interviews she did with Van Susteren…rather spontaneous, unrehearsed and very eloquent and studious. That’s the arena she needs and not canned interviews, being mishandled by campaign wonks. Admittedly, she does need some refinement and polish with the mainstream media, but hey, if that’s that worst thing they have to slam her on, so be it. Funny how no one has had a legit beef with her policy decisions; or if they have, that debate never happened because the frenzy was about this clothing nonsense, or her daughter’s pregnancy, or garbage about banning books, the names of continents, etc.

Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 293):
Hey Palin today said that if God wanted her to be in the Senate she would be willing. :lol: :lol:

Oh really now!?!?! Unreal. Yeah, "God" cares about you in the Senate or not. Gag!

Such intolerance. Perhaps some people who have an internal compass and operate with faith in something great than themselves actually believe this. Prayers get answered, doors open, doors close….

Some people make decisions by flipping coins, others do it based on the Xs and Os of quantifying good/bad. Some people pray for guidance. Your attacks on her speak more to your intolerance and character than hers…live and let live.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:28 pm

Is she like the "Leader" of the Republican party now?
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:32 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 296):
Is she like the "Leader" of the Republican party now?

I would hope not..I believe for one the Governor of Minnesota is a much more effective speaker and as more ideas on how to unite the Republican party..
 
slider
Posts: 7791
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:34 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 296):
Is she like the "Leader" of the Republican party now?

Not officially and who knows really?

The party is rudderless and they’re going to have to regroup and figure out strategy, RNC leadership (Michael Steele?) and other issues. But unquestionably, she’s the touchstone right now and the implied leadership mantle is there upon her if only by de facto default right now. I think she did a good job speaking at the Republican Governor’s conference and clearly and overtly tried to steer the focus off her and onto the governor’s and the party’s emphasis. Still, I think she’d do well to lay low and do her thing, work within the party to reclaim conservatism. There are a lot of younger new gen leaders and conservatives, Constitutionalists, that have the ability to cast the tent wide to all Americans based on ideals and principles, not personality or special interest groups. She will have a key say in that I’m sure.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Sarah Palin Aftermath..what We Didn't Know

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:37 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 298):
Not officially and who knows really?



Quoting AirCop (Reply 297):
I would hope not

She sure is acting like she is..
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