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flynavy
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Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:03 pm

It's a shame how politicized the churches in this country have become. With politics invading every corner of our lives, it's no wonder this country is in such disarray. Granted, it isn't really a surprise that this story comes out of South Carolina...

Quote:
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

More at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27705755/
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stlgph
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:08 pm

yay for being bitter!
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keesje
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:46 pm

Religeous madness that rose strongly during the last decade. The number of people that really believes god created the earth in 7 days and creationists also saw a dramatic rise in this period.

Hopefully we are entering a more moderate period.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:11 pm

Well, he has a right to free speech.

He also has NO right to have his church considered "tax-free."
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Dougloid
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:19 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Well, he has a right to free speech.

He also has NO right to have his church considered "tax-free."

Doc, you've got a good head on your shoulders.

Screw this moron. Don't he know that Father Coughlin is dead?
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mt99
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:28 pm

And what where the options i ask him: "Bomb Bomb Iran" instead?, a clue-less VP?
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AirCop
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:47 pm

And the catholic church wonders why the number of young people attending church keeps declining. I know little about the church but he appears to be acting beyond the authority of a parish priest.
 
AirCop
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:31 pm

Here is an interesting take of this.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/39145

So if 54% of the Catholics supported Obama, perhaps they should withdraw their monies...That would catch the local Bishops attention real fast and stop this nonsense.
 
slider
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Granted, it isn't really a surprise that this story comes out of South Carolina...

Everyone in the Palmetto State thanks you for branding them as ignorant whackjob bitter nuts clinging to their guns and religion.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:48 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
Everyone in the Palmetto State thanks you for branding them as ignorant whackjob bitter nuts clinging to their guns and religion.

You forgot to add separtists.  duck 
You can't cure stupid
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:19 pm

How does voting for a person not practising christian values,deprive one from the christian faith.
Some people should keep religon away from politics.
What would a roman catholic in India do if he voted for a Hindu,muslim,parsi.sikh political leader......
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Mir
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:22 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
It's a shame how politicized the churches in this country have become.

It's one church. And I don't doubt that there are a couple of others out there with leaders who say the same thing. But let's not try and paint this as a wave of churches trying to get into politics.

As for the priest, if he wants to be an idiot, let him. And then treat him like any other special interest group that tells people not to vote for a particular candidate.

-Mir
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ER757
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:13 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
And the catholic church wonders why the number of young people attending church keeps declining

Exactly what I was thinking. Hard to keep 21st century parishoners with 16th centrury thinking.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:32 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
How does voting for a person not practising christian values,deprive one from the christian faith.

 checkmark  Hit it on the head!

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
It's one church. And I don't doubt that there are a couple of others out there with leaders who say the same thing. But let's not try and paint this as a wave of churches trying to get into politics.

Thank you Mir. Wise words right there that I wish people could take into everyday thinking and apply to life. Even myself. Thank you Mir.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
As for the priest, if he wants to be an idiot, let him. And then treat him like any other special interest group that tells people not to vote for a particular candidate.

Exactly. It is just like Rev Jessie Jackson or Pat Robertson who paint a bad picture for "evangelicals". Gotta look past them and realize it is their thinking and not endorsed by 100% of people.

Good job Mir!
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:45 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
It's one church.

Representing a very powerful church. Have the leaders of that church disavowed their priest?

I don't see how they can, without seeming hypocritical. Either the Catholic church has a position on abortion or it doesn't.

And although I disagree with the priest, it's nothing to do with me, I'm not a Catholic. I don't think he is an idiot. I think he may be being true to his faith.

mariner
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mt99
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:45 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):
Exactly. It is just like Rev Jessie Jackson or Pat Robertson who paint a bad picture for "evangelicals". Gotta look past them and realize it is their thinking and not endorsed by 100% of people.

Agreed. but its harder for the Catholic Church to do that because of its hierarchical nature.

Pat Robertson ends at Pat Robertson.

Rev. Jay Scott Newman ends at the Pope...
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QXatFAT
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:03 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 15):
but its harder for the Catholic Church to do that because of its hierarchical nature.

True. I am not Catholic so I dont know how it all goes, but I know in my Church, if the Pastor is out of line and is speaking hatefully and non-biblically, we as the "body" can kick him out. I dont know about the Catholic Church. They might be stuck with him forever.
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NIKV69
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:17 pm

Hey Chris is back everyone! This church was out of line but I would venture to say kind of like the Obama official who kicked those people off his plane since their publication was voting McCain.
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:18 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 16):
I am not Catholic so I dont know how it all goes, but I know in my Church, if the Pastor is out of line and is speaking hatefully and non-biblically, we as the "body" can kick him out.

How is this priest speaking out of line? Either the Catholic church has a position on abortion or it doesn't.

mariner
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jcs17
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:22 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Well, he has a right to free speech.

He also has NO right to have his church considered "tax-free."

I didn't see you call for the revocation of tax-free status for Reverend Wright's church. It's different though, right? After all, since it was an African American clergyman having politically liberal diarrhea of the mouth, it's all good. Don't get me wrong, as a lapsed Catholic, I believe there are idiots on both sides of the Catholic political spectrum from Fr. Pfleger (although there are more hard leftists in the Church than conservatives) to this guy above. That said, it really isn't that much of a stretch to see this priests argument considering the church's constant stand on abortion.
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seb146
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:50 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 19):
After all, since it was an African American clergyman having politically liberal diarrhea of the mouth, it's all good.

Yes and no. Yes, that Rev. Wright did make one political sermon. However, he did not refuse communion to his congregation if they didn't vote a certain way. IIRC, he was preaching to his congregation that he thought the United States had, in recent years, gone away from spiritual and conservative "family" values into a more materialistic value; warning his congregation that God will condamn the United States for its ways. That is very different than saying "If you vote for the wrong candidate, you are not welcome in this church." That sounds more like "show us your ballot before you turn it in so we know if we want you in our midst."
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D L X
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:13 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 19):
I didn't see you call for the revocation of tax-free status for Reverend Wright's church.

So?

Did the issue of Wright's church (for which he is no longer the pastor) and its tax status ever come up in conversation? Analogy: I've never heard you decry book burning, but it would be quite a leap for me to say that you are therefore for book burning.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 19):
It's different though, right?

Quite different. In Catholicism, communion is the thing you go to church for, practically. It's a sin NOT to take communion, and it is a sin to take communion when you are in a sinful state. That's why you go to confession to rejuvenate your soul and perform a pennance to return to a non-sinful state. Taking communion means you are part of Jesus's church. (I know you know this JCS, but I say it for the others that are reading.) In effect, this priest in SC has said that if you voted for Obama, you aren't a welcomed part of Jesus's church.

Who did Wright kick out of church for disagreeing with him?

I'm Catholic, I'm pro-life, and I voted for Obama. I wasn't about to sacrifice the whole health of our nation (in my opinion which I am entitled to) because the guy that had 99% of it wrong happens to agree with me on the 1%. ESPECIALLY considering that excepting abortion, Obama more closely represents the teachings of the church.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:16 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
How is this priest speaking out of line? Either the Catholic church has a position on abortion or it doesn't.

The Catholic Church has a postion on abortion, but they also have one on the Death Penalty.

By the true reading if this Priests outlash, the members of his church could not vote for either party, as doing so would violate their religious beleifs.

At some point you have to weigh the many convictions of being religious and make the best choice out of 2 parties.


Most catholics find it easier to make this choice on abortion, becasue for the most part Catholics by faith are not in favor of abortion, so no matter whether it is legal or not is not a problem. However the "Church" has a few delusions of granduer about how far they should politically assert themselves, lest we forget the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and other disaterous inferferencees in politics by the Church.

That is one of the great ironies of faith in the US, how do you spread the faith and convert those that don't want to convert, or those that want you to Convert without having a war and killing the others.  Smile
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D L X
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
I wonder what he tells those parishioners who support the death penalty?



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 23):
The Catholic Church has a postion on abortion, but they also have one on the Death Penalty.

Exactly.

Seriously, I'm pretty sick about these so-called Religious Right folks who think that the Republican party represents the Bible types when they only do so on one issue.

Death penalty is a sin. So is unjust war. So is divorce. All reasons you can't vote for McCain, under this logic.
 
dxing
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
He also has NO right to have his church considered "tax-free."

Well if it was his church you'd have a point.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
I know little about the church but he appears to be acting beyond the authority of a parish priest.

He is and the Bishop will set him straight of replace him.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
I don't see how they can, without seeming hypocritical. Either the Catholic church has a position on abortion or it doesn't.

The Church does but that does not mean a single priest cannot over state that position. If it comes from the Pope it represents the churches position. If it comes from a Cardinal on down to the Bishop it represents something less. If it comes from the Priest, it's his viewpoint in the Parish nothing more.

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
Death penalty is a sin.

It is? Considering the death penalty is administered by the State and the State has no soul, how is it a sin?
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:37 pm



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 23):
The Catholic Church has a postion on abortion, but they also have one on the Death Penalty.

I don't see a contradiction there. It is my understanding that the Catholic church is against the death penalty - all life is sacred.

Or am I wrong?

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 23):
At some point you have to weigh the many convictions of being religious and make the best choice out of 2 parties.

That's very pragmatic, but I'm not sure how or why it should affect the position of the church on anything.

Either a sin is a mortal sin or it is not. You are either in a state of grace or you are not. I don't see how you can be half way there - half a sinner.

It may be a hard road to God, but I am not sure that it is up to the church to make that road easier or the burden of faith lighter.

Remembering - always - that I stand completely outside this, observing.

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Tugger
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:00 pm

Apparently the Catholic church does not agree with Fr. Newman:

Priest's remarks on Obama voters said not to reflect church teaching

Quote:
The administrator of the Diocese of Charleston, S.C., said a pastor who told his parishioners they should refrain from receiving holy Communion if they voted for President-elect Barack Obama did not "adequately reflect the Catholic Church's teaching" on abortion and conscience.

"Any statements or comments to the contrary are repudiated," Msgr. Martin T. Laughlin said in a Nov. 14 statement.
.....

Quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Msgr. Laughlin said that Christ gives everyone "the freedom to explore our own conscience and to make our own decisions while adhering to the law of God and the teachings of the faith."

"Therefore, if a person has formed his or her conscience well, he or she should not be denied Communion, nor be told to go to confession before receiving Communion," he said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0805820.htm

Tugg

[Edited 2008-11-14 15:10:40]
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
If it comes from the Priest, it's his viewpoint in the Parish nothing more.

So what are we dealing with here - a priest going rogue?

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DocLightning
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:24 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
Seriously, I'm pretty sick about these so-called Religious Right folks who think that the Republican party represents the Bible types when they only do so on one issue.

Death penalty is a sin. So is unjust war. So is divorce. All reasons you can't vote for McCain, under this logic.

Oh, this part is so absurd it would almost be funny if it weren't so serious.

The candidate who has been divorced, who called his wife a "cunt" in public, who supports the death penalty and a pointless war is the "holy" one.

Meanwhile, the man who has been married to one woman, who lives in a stable family with two kids, who opposes the death penalty and the war is the "godless" one or, worse, the "Muslim."

It goes back to using fundamentalism as a tool. It's not about logic, it's about power. But once power and righteousness mix, the result is a madman who thinks he has God on his side with his finger on the Red Button and that scares the crap out of me.
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jcs17
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:52 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
IIRC, he was preaching to his congregation that he thought the United States had, in recent years, gone away from spiritual and conservative "family" values into a more materialistic value; warning his congregation that God will condamn the United States for its ways.

Hahahaha! There we go, Reverend Wright's hate-filled sermons boiled down to a palatable couple of sentences. Were you a speech writer for Msr. Obama? That's kind of like saying "Mein Kampf" was written by a guy who just wanted respect for Germany and her people.

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
In Catholicism, communion is the thing you go to church for, practically. It's a sin NOT to take communion, and it is a sin to take communion when you are in a sinful state. That's why you go to confession to rejuvenate your soul and perform a pennance to return to a non-sinful state. Taking communion means you are part of Jesus's church. (I know you know this JCS, but I say it for the others that are reading.) In effect, this priest in SC has said that if you voted for Obama, you aren't a welcomed part of Jesus's church.

I never said agreed with the priest, I said it wasn't a stretch to see where he was coming from. I do disagree with this priest though, and the meaning Communion (and sin, for that matter) was a huge reason why I left the church.
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cainanuk
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:14 am

So seperation of church and state is a must but not state and church. Cant have it both ways!
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ltbewr
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:40 am

If you were to follow the beleifs of this priest, you could only vote for members of the Right To Life party, which as far as I know has no canidate for President, maybe a few local/state canidates.

There are far more important issues than abortion to choose one canidate over another. They include from the quality and quanity of social programs for the poor, the dignity of labor, pro-consumer laws and regulations as to finances, access to affordable health care for all, keeping us out and getting us out of war, how they treat people of other races, cultures, and faiths (or not of faith belief), concern for the enviroment and so on.
 
dxing
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:12 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 27):
So what are we dealing with here - a priest going rogue?

That's about the extent of it and as reply 26 shows, it didn't take long for his boss to lay down the law.
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flynavy
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:20 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
This church was out of line but I would venture to say kind of like the Obama official who kicked those people off his plane since their publication was voting McCain.

Are you freaking kidding me? You're comparing a campaign plane to a church? Please, by all means, continue. We are enjoying the entertainment you continue to provide the community.

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
Everyone in the Palmetto State thanks you for branding them as ignorant whackjob bitter nuts clinging to their guns and religion.

Is it really that far fetched?
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seb146
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:44 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):
Reverend Wright's hate-filled sermons boiled down to a palatable couple of sentences.

I thought we had already established that the media had focused on "a palatable couple of sentences" as opposed to the meaning of the sermon which, I believe, was this country, as a whole, has moved away from Christian values to more secular (sinful) values which is why he would call for God's condamnation of the United States. Although a few of those that voted for McCain still believe Obama is Muslim.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):
That's kind of like saying "Mein Kampf" was written by a guy who just wanted respect for Germany and her people.

Though I have not read "Mein Kampf" I have been under the impression he was trying to write for Germany as a whole but actually wrote on his own personal feelings. Let's compare that to Rev. Wright's sermon: There are church leaders that believe the United States has moved away from Christian values and into secular/materialistic values. The biggest difference is, other church leaders do not go so far as to ask for God to damn this country. Nobody hears that part. All they hear is Rev. Wright damning the United States.
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Falcon84
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Granted, it isn't really a surprise that this story comes out of South Carolina...

South Carolina (and Alabama, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisana, Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah), should all do us a favor and just leave the Union, so they can start their own anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-everything they don't like country.

In this, we see the problem with one-issue voters. I imagine he would have supported Adolph Hitler. After all, he was against abortion as well. You cannot vote based on one issue. If you do, you dumb down the process. You have to take your candidates as a whole, not in smaller parts, to determine who best fits your needs.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:11 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36):
South Carolina (and Alabama, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisana, Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah), should all do us a favor and just leave the Union, so they can start their own anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-everything they don't like country.

Glad to see you’re back with your flaming hypocrisy.. as usual senseless drivel..

Let me get this straight. You find it fine to criticize those people who are “anti-whatever you believe in,” while telling them to get the hell out because you are "Anti-them."

In other words, it’s fine for you to be Anti-Red State, and every other anti beliefs you believe in, lets see for starters, Anti-Conservative. Anti-War. Anti-Bush. Anti-blah blah blah. Good to see you’re back just as you left. Hate to tell you Falcon. But this is America, still, and everyone has a right to free speech.

Not to say that I believe in what his Priest said/does, but if YOU are a member of this church, you can simply walk out. Just as many people should have in that racist church located in a certain part of Chicago. The real idiots in this situation are the people who still attend these “churches.”
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:16 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
That's about the extent of it and as reply 26 shows, it didn't take long for his boss to lay down the law.

So it ends with a diktat not a debate. I guess it was only to be expected.

I think it's a pity. I don't agree with this rogue priest, obviously, but I admire his passion and his balls.

mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:53 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
the catholic church wonders

-
The Roman Catholic Church in the USA in the past elections had a simple problem and that was that the Democratic Vice President candidate was a Catholic. They possibly silently hoped for a McCain victory

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
people should keep religon away from politics

-
To have religion and politics separate is a basic principle in most Western countries. However, since Ronald Reagan, religion in the USA has gradually crept into politics in a bad way, in what Ronald Reagan described as a "spiritual revival". I hope that the USA now, after the congress elections two years ago and the presidential plus congress elections now are moving back to normalcy
 
NIKV69
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:01 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
South Carolina (and Alabama, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisana, Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah), should all do us a favor and just leave the Union, so they can start their own anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-everything they don't like country.

This is a ridiculous statement. Should Mass, California, Seattle and the like leave the union too? So they can start their own anti life, anti capitalism and anti conservative country?

[Edited 2008-11-15 11:03:50]
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:06 pm

Does the priest at this church give communion for those whose commit adultery? Divorce? Take the Lord's name in vain? I mean, sin is sin. Mind you, a person's favorite sin is the one he is least likely to commit.

Nice to see him pick and choose his sins.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:10 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):
Religeous madness that rose strongly during the last decade. The number of people that really believes god created the earth in 7 days and creationists also saw a dramatic rise in this period.

I don't agree with the actions of the priest, but this shows your ignorance on Catholicism, for even Catholiscism as a whole acknowledges evolution.
"“[N]ew findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.” - Pope John Paul II, 1996.


Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Granted, it isn't really a surprise that this story comes out of South Carolina...

Except South Carolina is Baptist country, not Catholic country. I think South Carolina even has one of the lowest if not the lowest percentage of Catholics in the country.

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
It's a shame how politicized the churches in this country have become.

You mean like Barrack Obama's church and Rev. Wright?  footinmouth 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
South Carolina (and Alabama, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisana, Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah), should all do us a favor and just leave the Union, so they can start their own anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-everything they don't like country.

What about California and Florida? They voted down gay marriage too. So did Ohio four years ago. Are you suggesting they leave the Union too?  sarcastic  (And before you respond, keep in mind that I voted "No" on Florida's amendment to define marriage as strictly between a man and a woman.
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dxing
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:36 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
South Carolina (and Alabama, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisana, Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah), should all do us a favor and just leave the Union, so they can start their own anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-everything they don't like country.

As BN747 said in another thread I guess all those states are good for is producing food for the blue states. Welcome to the change Falcon, you are now an Elitist. A poor one mind you, but still an Elitist.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I imagine he would have supported Adolph Hitler. After all, he was against abortion as well.

?????? Perhaps you should stop by your bourgeoisie library and do a little research.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
So it ends with a diktat not a debate. I guess it was only to be expected.

The Church, the government, and the mafia are all run the same way. Top down.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 40):
Does the priest at this church give communion for those whose commit adultery? Divorce? Take the Lord's name in vain? I mean, sin is sin.

Ooops...8 years in a Catholic grade school can't let that slip by. Not all sins are the same. Adultery, and taking the Lords name in vain are simple venial sins that any priest can absolve you of during confession and by doing penance. As a matter of fact in his statement the priest in question suggests that those that voted for Obama should confess their sin and recieve absolution through penance. Abortion and murder are mortal sins. A priest can't get you off the hook for these through confession. Divorce is not a sin. The Church just says that unless you get the first marriage annulled you can't get married in the Church again and your second marriage will not be recognized.
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StarAC17
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting CainanUK (Reply 30):
So seperation of church and state is a must but not state and church. Cant have it both ways!

The church should not be telling anyone in that congregation how to vote and if they do then I feel they should be punished by being taxed even if the party in power is the one that the church endorses. That is not the church's job, they can discuss the issues in the terms of the bible but shouldn't be donating or endorsing political candidates even if on is in that congregation. This is my opinion however and I have views similar to Bill Maher and Christoper Hitchens on religion.

I also believe that every single Church, Synagogue, or Mosque at least in Canada should have to prove that they in fact do legitimate charitable acts which is the reason that they are tax exempt in the first place and failing to do so they are taxed flat at 20% which is will below the personal and corporate tax rates.
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mt99
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:00 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 42):
he Church just says that unless you get the first marriage annulled you can't get married in the Church again and your second marriage will not be recogniz

Why is are second marriages are called legally "marriage" then? It should be called something else?

Quoting DXing (Reply 42):
Not all sins are the same.

Catholic here too. But let me ask you.. Who determined this? Is it the Bible somewhere or is it the decision and/or interpretation of someone at the Vatican?

What about child molestation? Where does that lie?
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flybyguy
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 21):
I'm Catholic, I'm pro-life, and I voted for Obama. I wasn't about to sacrifice the whole health of our nation (in my opinion which I am entitled to) because the guy that had 99% of it wrong happens to agree with me on the 1%. ESPECIALLY considering that excepting abortion, Obama more closely represents the teachings of the church.

You make a very good point. Being Catholic (non-practicing) myself, I have to admit I wasn't an Obama supporter at first, but once McCain chose Palin the choice was clear. She is far too right winged to be 2nd in line to the Presidency. Our government should never be right or left, but a balance of the two. Temperance in government is a good thing... meaningful change takes far longer, but it keeps things stable. I was actually surprised that when Obama was elected that congress swung to Democrat majorities. I am pleased that Bush and his cronies are leaving office come January. Bush was an embarrassment to the nation and a liability in our dealings abroad. He has damaged government and his party has effectively nurtured political extremism for the benefit of the GOP and the detriment of the United States.

For the Democratic Party’s sake I hope they do well in the 2 years they have until the next congressional elections because this lofty optimism brought in by Obama will give way to unparalleled pessimism if American hopes are shattered yet again.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
dxing
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:36 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 44):
Why is are second marriages are called legally "marriage" then? It should be called something else?

It is called "marriage" by the state or whatever other church you get married in. The marriage is not recognized by the Catholic church at all. Just because the Catholic church does not recognize it does not mean that the state or another church doesn't.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 44):
Is it the Bible somewhere or is it the decision and/or interpretation of someone at the Vatican?

What about child molestation? Where does that lie?

As I remember the teaching it is in the bible but don't ask me where that's too long ago.
Mortal sins are sins that you can't atone for, you can ask for and get forgiveness from a child that you molested so that is not a mortal sin.
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QXatFAT
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:04 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
How is this priest speaking out of line? Either the Catholic church has a position on abortion or it doesn't.

The Catholic Church can have a position on an issue such as abortion or homosexual marriage but the Priest is not one to tell someone what he just said.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 27):
So what are we dealing with here - a priest going rogue?

Maybe not rogue but one who is far out of line.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
I admire his passion and his balls.

Ehhh.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 40):
Does the priest at this church give communion for those whose commit adultery? Divorce? Take the Lord's name in vain? I mean, sin is sin. Mind you, a person's favorite sin is the one he is least likely to commit.

 checkmark  Couldnt be more forward and correct EWR.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 44):
Who determined this? Is it the Bible somewhere or is it the decision and/or interpretation of someone at the Vatican?

Sadly the Pope. That is the sad part about it is the Bible is thrown out and is left to a man to dictate to everyone what their values MUST be. Last time I checked, Christ was my standard and I can buy a Bible and study out for myself to test the teachings of man. (of course if your not a believer then the Bible would not be your standard.)
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mariner
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:20 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 47):
The Catholic Church can have a position on an issue such as abortion or homosexual marriage but the Priest is not one to tell someone what he just said.

I was always taught that a priest is the shepherd of his flock, guiding their immortal souls.

As such, I don't think it is proper for you or I to tell him what he should do.

He may have "gone rogue." But sometimes it takes a rogue to remind believers of their fundamental beliefs.

mariner
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nkops
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RE: Priest: No Communion For Obama Supporters

Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:39 am

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

Let me say first of all.. this was a quote from the article, not Flynavy...

I'm not Catholic, but aren't you putting your soul at risk if you take Communion before doing penance for any sin??

Also, let those who were upset or offended, take their tithing elsewhere, and see how the diocese would handle it.

[Edited 2008-11-15 16:59:39]
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