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Beaucaire
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The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:33 pm

Slowly but surely we will become increasingly invaded by RFID chips,that will allow a permanent and improved supervision of our lives and habits.
Initially thought to be used as consumer-good tags and replacing bar-codes,RFID chips have a tricky tendancy-they become smaller and smaller and the reading and detection methods more and more powerful.( RFID chips can be read from as far as 100 foot..)
The use of those chips in passport and ID documents will allow the remote-reading and identification of any holder of these new passports.
It is about time people stand up and say "NO" to the ideas to implement chips into animals,humans and literally everything we use ot buy.

http://www.thejerusalemgiftshop.com/...anted-on-all-israeli-citizens.html

[Edited 2008-11-24 06:38:03]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
access-air
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:11 pm

Amen to that......I couldnt agree more....However, it will eventually come to pass that people will have no choice and have to be micro-chipped on their person, especially if we move to a cash-less society where by we either take the chip or cannot work, buy anything or sell things...That is more than scary....Think its not coming.....keep watching.....
Technology is NOT always a good thing...

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
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treebeard787
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:33 pm

I completely agree with what you both have said, We need to bring the USA back to what the founding fathers had envisioned, Right now we are headed for 1984.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
Allons-y!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:01 pm

But we have superseded 1984 already by a magnitude.. The dangers are coming from the social security guru’s, the health-guru and -obviously, from the security guru’s, who will try to sell us this beautiful new technology as a tool to "help " us.. If you combine the efficient tracing of us through credit-card use ( governments have a consumer and spending-profile ),the tracking of our movements through cellular or GSM phones ( they know where and when we moved ),the potential tapping into any mobiles as spying-tools,the use of RFID chips to monitor -potentially- our body functions and health-pattern - what is left as" liberties" ??? People love to jump on new technology because it's sold as trendy,» useful" ,practical, increasing flexible communication and access to useless multi-media junk content ( all those MP3 devices, mobiles with built-in TV,radio,cameras,video..) people don't realize how supportive they are heading towards a totally controlled environment-and the controlling tools are all the gadgets we buy..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:07 pm

I am not going to let "them" implant a microchip in my body unless it gets done without me knowing about it. I may still be able to escape it considering my age but I bet the younger generations will be microchipped in a not too distant future maybe even at birth?
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Dougloid
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:16 pm

Andrea, oh Andrea, they're calling for you. C'mon down out of that black helicopter, gurl.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
It is about time people stand up and say "NO" to the ideas to implement chips into animals

I don't see much of a downside in being able to track animals and being able to create a paper trail of their peregrinations, particularly when the issue of food security is so important. I mean, we already do this with ear clips and tags, but the RFI chips are a lot easier to follow. Had we had RFI chips in cattle a few years ago, the BSE outbreak might have been nipped in the bud.

People are a different thing.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
CPH-R
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:18 pm

I don't see the problem?

Having the chips implanted in cats and dogs allows for an easy way of finding out who owns it, if it becomes lost.

Having an RFID chip inserted in the clothes of senile/alzheimers patients, or other persons who are unable to care for themselves, would make it MUCH easier for authorities to locate them if they goes missing. I'm faily sure that it's anyone's worst nightmare to know that a relative has gone missing, knowing that he or she is unable to take care of themselves.

It doesn't become a problem until it becomes mandatory for everyone, and so far there's no sign of that happening.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:32 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 6):
I don't see the problem?

I am stricly against the use of electronic devices within ANY body of a living creature - be it human or animal.
The emission of radio-controlled devices does produce electro-magnetic radiation and is -hence-not natural and can cause problems.Marking animals by means of tags is normal-but why do they have to be electronic tags ?

http://capitalpress.com/Main.asp?SectionID=94&ArticleID=35165
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/09/french-bulldog-.html

[Edited 2008-11-24 09:34:47]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Doona
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:37 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 7):
I am stricly against the use of electronic devices within ANY body of a living creature - be it human or animal.

Like pacemakers?

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:48 pm



Quoting Doona (Reply 8):
Like pacemakers?

Wrong answer to a genuin problem..
I don't advocate not to use pace-makers but un-neccessary human and animal tagging that causes more problems than it solves.
I know that this forum houses people that would agree on anything as long it's new and high-tech ...
And why would animals have to be treated worst than humans ?
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
photopilot
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:22 pm

A scary read.......

http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/136744

"One day we will all happily be implanted with microchips, and our every move will be monitored. The technology exists; the only barrier is society's resistance to the loss of privacy. An expert on surveillance and society lays out how.........
 
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yowza
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The use of those chips in passport and ID documents will allow the remote-reading and identification of any holder of these new passports.
It is about time people stand up and say "NO" to the ideas to implement chips into animals,humans and literally everything we use ot buy.

My final year project when I took engineering was on the design of a full hardware and software RFID passport system. If you have nothing to hide there is nothing to be afraid of. It's really that simple.

As for the "remote reading" of these RFID passports this is very misleading Crudely speaking there are two types of RFID chips, passive and active. Passports use passive chips/tags. This means they have to be in incredibly close proximity to the passport to be read. Further to this the data is encoded. So this notion that anyone can get some hardware on eBay go sit in an airport and start stealing info is laughable.

As for tagging people, I don't see the big big deal. It's a good way to track kids and the elderly. It's ideal for tracking prisoners and security personnel. As long as the powers that have the info do not abuse it, and there is oversight it's not a problem.

Let's face it, through cellular tower triangulation, CCTV, online reservations, online directories just about anyone can find out stuff about us we'd rather they didn't...

It's not the end of the world.

YOWza
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 11):
It's not the end of the world.

I have an engineering background myself and are most defenitely not against technology...
But there is good and bad technology-and RFID to me is bad technology if deployed in conjunction with living beings.What is the neccessity to tag humans ???
Simply because humankind has progressed into a total "supervision" culture we don't have to accept any new inventions and justifying them by saying-we have anyway already gone too far ..
"It's not the end of the world ..." is precicely what the people from Verichip want to hear ....
One would think people would wake up-but the opposite seems to be the case !
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Dougloid
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
And why would animals have to be treated worst than humans ?

I think you're missing the point, B. The ear clipping and tags that are used on cattle and hogs do not immediately translate into a nationwide system of traceability. Properly done, this can yield real benefits in animal health and people health as well by providing a rock solid validation from farm to fork.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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yowza
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
One would think people would wake up-but the opposite seems to be the case !

As long as there is oversight there is not a problem. Simple as that.

YOWza
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:42 pm

It's coming... for one reason or the other, governments are going to tag people...

Microchips for AIDS patients in eastern Indonesia

JAKARTA, Indonesia – Lawmakers in Indonesia's remote province of Papua have thrown their support behind a controversial bill requiring some HIV/AIDS patients to be implanted with microchips — part of extreme efforts to monitor the disease.

Health workers and rights activists sharply criticized the plan Monday.

But legislator John Manangsang said by implanting small computer chips beneath the skin of "sexually aggressive" patients, authorities would be in a better position to identify, track and ultimately punish those who deliberately infect others with up to six months in jail or a $5,000 fine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/...;_ylt=AiHx3ZLWTBc3rSFLYS.5G30DW7oF
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 13):
I think you're missing the point, B. The ear clipping and tags that are used on cattle and hogs do not immediately translate into a nationwide system of traceability. Properly done, this can yield real benefits in animal health and people health as well by providing a rock solid validation from farm to fork.

Dougloid- my position as animals-right defender is well know here- that does not mean I'm blue eyed or expect everybody to become a Vegan.
But the research in several countries has shown that an abnormal frequency of malicious tumors has been detected among animals that were chiped - you want to mark animals-OK-but do it with a non-intrusive technology rather than using tools, that will not only inject a chip but furthermore bacteria,dirt and chemical residues into the animals body.
Humans can defend themselves-animals can't !

http://www.antichips.com/press-releases/microchip-imlants-tumors.html
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
ACDC8
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:00 pm

Its the mark of the Beast! Run for your lives .....  eek 

When I went to Church growing up, this is pretty well what the book of Revelation predicted (or at least what we were told was predicted). Implanted chips = mark of the Beast = you let them implant the chip, you deny God and his plan = you go to hell. If you don't let them implant the chip, the Government puts you on a list and executes you, but since you don't accept the mark of the Beast (the chip) you go to Heaven.

There are a lot of moral hurdles to topple before anything like this can even be implemented in western civilization, but it wouldn't surprise me if one day it will happen. It seems like we're losing our privacy rights more and more every day in the interest of public security.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:06 pm





I also heqard rumors that with the flick of the switch from the whitehouse these chips can control our minds  crazy 

 Yeah sure
 
Dougloid
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 16):
intrusive technology rather than using tools, that will not only inject a chip but furthermore bacteria,dirt and chemical residues into the animals body.
Humans can defend themselves-animals can't !

I suppose we can always go back to branding. Have you ever been witness to castration of lambs or pigs?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:22 am

Doug- read my signature -should tell you all about my attitude towards animals and how I think about us treating them.
@FLY2HMO - nothing to do with conspiracy but with continued disrespect for private spheres of citizens ,health considerations and increased radio-wave pollution.
To read those tags does require readers that use -of course- electromagnetic energy that adds to the already omnipresent pollution with radio signals.
Furthermore -in a reply to Verychip the Food and Drug Administration responded in a letter :
".........The potential risks to health associated with the device are: adverse tissue
reaction; migration of implanted transponder; compromised information
security; failure of implanted transponder; failure of inserter; failure of
electronic scanner; electromagnetic interference; electrical hazards;
magnetic resonance imaging incompatibility; and needle stick. The special
controls document aids in mitigating the risks by identifying performance
and safety testing, and appropriate labeling....."

http://www.antichips.com/verichip-fda-letter.pdf
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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LAXintl
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:54 am

Lets see --- if government wanted to track you today they could quite easily if you have a mobile phone, or let say Low Jack or some satellite system installed in your car, or good old fashion following you around.

I don't see how RFID changes much, nor the fear with them. I actually see benefits with RFID as YOWza mentions in reply 11- they can be used on convicted felons, help located little children or give the location of first responders.

Remember some questioned the wisdom or social ethicacy of photographic images when that technology came out over a century ago, and today nearly everyone today walks around with a camera phone and is happy to share images with millions of strangers across the internet.

Would not surprise me that in the instant communications society we live in that one day we would happily transmit our locations openly to friends for instance, just the way we can see who is online at this moment or not.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Francoflier
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:07 pm

The appearance of new ways of tracking you doesn't mean that someone will automatically do it.

As previously mentioned, there are other ways to track someone's movements and get information about him/her. Identity theft is already a well known phenomenon.

There is a distinction between the development of such technologies as RFID chips and CCTV cameras and recording systems and the will of governments to play Big Brother with them.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
AverageUser
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:09 pm

I'd welcome tagging of livestock the with an RFID system, compared to the EU madness of compulsory eartagging sheep, goats, cattle and recently horses. If a tag goes missing (even one of the two), the animal in practice will need to be cremated.



People might not have understood that the passive chip that's installed in animals will not be active unless it's being queried. The total radio frequency power that the target will ever receive will be minuscule. There are no proper studies that would link any everyday radio frequency radiation with any disease. Unless you strip a magnetron from your microwave and cook your tissue with that, of something similar, any hardware you'll encounter will be perfectly safe.

I don't know why for instance baggage at atports is not being tracked by RFID more. (If you kow of a practical application let me know.) There's huge potential in this technology.
 
Dougloid
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RE: The RFID-chip Madness..

Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:20 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
Doug- read my signature -should tell you all about my attitude towards animals and how I think about us treating them.

Even if you're a vegetarian, to suggest that you would not benefit from an accurate way of determining the path an animal took from birth to the table is disingenuous.

Fact is, people do eat meat and it's to their benefit, as well as public health in general and animal health by identifying and isolating disease outbreaks when they occur.

This will become more important as consumers insist on eliminating the use of antibiotics on the farm, even when they're completely metabolized before the animal is sent to slaughter or milked. Denying animals the benefits of medicine because you've been gulled by militant foodies into thinking you're going to be harmed in some unspecified way is the worst sort of animal cruelty.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn

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