Have Dell Lost Their Mind?

CPH-R · Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:51 pm

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10121992-17.html

Fair use excerpt
The Washington Post reported on Thursday that the PC maker is charging customers with a Dell account $12.95 per month to have access to an American agent or $99 per year for customers who buy a new PC from the company.

Those who don't pay the sum will be contacting center agents in India or the Philippines. But before you start your bellyaching, Dell is sweetening the pot: wait times are guaranteed to be 2 or fewer minutes!
Fair use excerpt

So basically customers will have to pay extra to get what they're already paying for?

KaiGywer · Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:58 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Thread starter):
So basically customers will have to pay extra to get what they're already paying for?

Actually it's an awesome idea. If you want to talk to "Bob in Bangalore" after waiting 30 minutes, don't pay. If you want to talk to someone who speaks more English than their scripts spell out, and get it done within a few minutes, pay up.

I'm surprised nobody thought of this earlier.

ual757 · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:16 pm

OR! Just have the call centers in the US.

Sigh...

KaiGywer · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:19 pm

Quoting UAL757 (Reply 2):
OR! Just have the call centers in the US.

Well, yes, that'd be ideal of course.

Tugger · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Thread starter):
So basically customers will have to pay extra to get what they're already paying for?

Though I am no fan of the idea, it makes sense on some level. Dell probably "includes" the cost of tech support in the price but at a level the market will bear. This probably means for a person being paid something like $100 to maybe $300 per month for an overseas call center (http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/44937.html ), which comes nowhere near what a tech person in the USA in paid. So if you want it you have to pay for it, and with low margin pricing on computer products there is no room for Dell to "add" an extra $100 to the price to allow for local support. At least this way you have a choice.

Its not much different than the airlines charging for bags so that the can advertise a lower price up front for all the web surfers.

Tugg

Klaus · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:32 pm

It's basically truth in pricing. You get what you pay for – or not!

Goes to the difference between cheap and well-priced...

RussianJet · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
Actually it's an awesome idea. If you want to talk to "Bob in Bangalore" after waiting 30 minutes, don't pay

Can't agree. What they're basically saying is that if you want good customer service then you have to pay extra for it. If you don't want to pay extra fees then you will get poor customer service. Doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of the company's standards, in effect saying that their standard customer service levels are poor.

In response to the original question I would have to say yes, they have - it's an idiotic idea and a PR disaster. Good customer service should be a given for any serious company.

Klaus · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:47 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Can't agree. What they're basically saying is that if you want good customer service then you have to pay extra for it.

It simply says that if you want something, you should be ready to pay for it – period. Either by paying an appropriate price for the product initially or – if you've opted for the cheap product – after the fact when you need the support you had thought you could "save" on.

KaiGywer · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:48 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
In response to the original question I would have to say yes, they have - it's an idiotic idea and a PR disaster. Good customer service should be a given for any serious company.

Not in the US. Here it's all about how to do it as cheap as possible, regardless of customer service.

RussianJet · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:57 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
It simply says that if you want something, you should be ready to pay for it – period. Either by paying an appropriate price for the product initially or – if you've opted for the cheap product – after the fact when you need the support you had thought you could "save" on.

It's all a matter of perception, but I would rather buy from a company that has good customer service and support without trying to make out it's some kind of privileged extra to be paid for seperately.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Not in the US. Here it's all about how to do it as cheap as possible, regardless of customer service.

I don't doubt that's the reality, but I think it sucks.

KaiGywer · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:58 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
It simply says that if you want something, you should be ready to pay for it – period. Either by paying an appropriate price for the product initially or – if you've opted for the cheap product – after the fact when you need the support you had thought you could "save" on.

Since I know what you're implying...are all of Apple's call centers US based?

dragon6172 · Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:58 pm

Typically when you call if you press "2" for Spanish you will get a call center that is in the US and is staffed by billingual folk. When they say "Hola" just talk english and play dumb about why your call did not go to India. It has worked a few times for me, and the fourth they tried to transfer me.

Klaus · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:10 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
It's all a matter of perception, but I would rather buy from a company that has good customer service and support without trying to make out it's some kind of privileged extra to be paid for seperately.

If you go straight for the cheapest possible price, you'll get what you paid for. The "savings" will always come from somewhere...!

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 10):
Since I know what you're implying...are all of Apple's call centers US based?

No, fortunately not. I prefer my german support without a heavy american accent...!

As far as I'm aware, however, Apple's american support is situated in America.

UAL747 · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:13 pm

"Premuim Service" by Dell on the inside has always been marketed to those who buy XPS systems. Anything under an XPS system was sent to India most of the time. I know this because I used to work for Dell, and nothing would piss off the average Joe more than being sent to India. So, instead now, I guess, they give the option of buying the premium service to talk to an American rather than an Indian. It's actually brilliant because people will buy it just not to talk to an Indian. Instead of trying to push their XPS systems on a customer and failing to make a sale, period, because you are pushing too hard, they use this as a tactic.

I can see them saying something like this to promote it to customers, "We at Dell are trying to help with the American economy and put money back in, therefore, we will offer this service to you for a premium to talk to an American. Let's keep our jobs on our soil!"

The highest margin "object" that Dell sells is SERVICE. You pay X amount of dollars for something you will probably never use, or want to use, but it sounds like a good deal. Dell doesn't sell in stores, or service in stores. Most people can't live without their computers for very long, so they buy the service intending to use it, but don't want to wait to send it back to Dell and have it sent back to them, so they take it to the Geek Squad, therefore Dell has $99 in their pocket with NO labor needed in most cases.

Those poor Dell Sales reps though, their managers are going to push this SO hard on them.

UAL

TIA · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:23 pm

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 11):
if you press "2" for Spanish you will get a call center that is in the US

The irony there is just priceless.

Goldenshield · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:47 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 13):
"Premuim Service" by Dell on the inside has always been marketed to those who buy XPS systems

Funny. When I bought my Dell XPS 3 years ago, I was still sent over to India to try and resolve an issue regarding the Musicmatch offer that was being sold with the system. All in all, Dell saw that I bought it, but did nothing about it, as they said that it was no longer offered (but was still on their site somehow.) So, I lost $30, plus pain and suffering.

Dougloid · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:56 pm

Quoting UAL757 (Reply 2):
OR! Just have the call centers in the US.

There's plenty of third world countries in the United States, too. I can think of a few places where people'd love to have the work, they'd show up on time, and the states and counties would be liberal with the tax benefits. How about the entire midwest outside of cities with 100,000 or more? Kentucky? West Virginia? Alabama?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
It's basically truth in pricing. You get what you pay for – or not!

Goes to the difference between cheap and well-priced...

I think you're on to something there Klaus. My old crew chief used to say that common sense will take you a long way in the world. Charity also begins at home and not half a world away among strangers.

Now....having said that, I've had the opportunity to talk to people in India for Microsoft and for my Toshiba. Both times they were polite, articulate, and the problem got solved in good time.

I believe Dell tried floating this balloon a couple of years ago. There's nothing worse than a bad idea that won't go away.

grumpy

UAL747 · Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:56 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 15):
Funny. When I bought my Dell XPS 3 years ago, I was still sent over to India to try and resolve an issue regarding the Musicmatch offer that was being sold with the system. All in all, Dell saw that I bought it, but did nothing about it, as they said that it was no longer offered (but was still on their site somehow.) So, I lost $30, plus pain and suffering.

The reason why they make their phone system so complicated. You get routed all over the place until you just give up because you are just glad to talk to someone after 30 min of waiting for tech support. The calls, when backed up, will overflow into India, even with XPS.

Then again, I may be totally wrong about all of this. There were a lot of things that Dell told it's employees that you found NOT to be true from the customers.

UAL

DfwRevolution · Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:34 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
If you go straight for the cheapest possible price, you'll get what you paid for. The "savings" will always come from somewhere...!

... and sometimes it's just brand-name premium.

mt99 · Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:47 pm

How about if you pay an additional $5K if you want your GM car to have it built in the US instead of in Mexico?

DfwRevolution · Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:57 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
How about if you pay an additional $5K if you want your GM car to have it built in the US instead of in Mexico?

If GM is willing to establish redundant production facilities and there are enough customers who want such a product, I think it would certainly be a reasonable proposition. But since it's clear that hardly anyone wants to pay an extra $5k to have an the same vehicle built in the U.S., it's a losing venture and GM would be foolish to offer it.

It's obviously a different situation for Dell since call centers are cheaper to establish than manufacturing and the participation cost is much more reasonable.

stasisLAX · Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:14 pm

Dell sucks. I've had several desktop and laptop computers from them and had plenty of hardware problems.

Remember when you're speaking to an off-shore call center that the person you are speaking to is NOT governed by U.S. laws. Speaking to a CIGNA insurance claims representative, your health information is not protected. Speaking to an regular American Express or JC Penney credit card representative, your social security and other financial information is not protected by U.S. privacy laws. Ask the representative that you're speaking to if they are based in the U.S. - if not, demand to speak to a stateside representative that is governed by U.S. laws.

Protect both yourself AND American jobs.

[Edited 2008-12-20 14:17:31]

RussianJet · Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:35 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20):
If GM is willing to establish redundant production facilities and there are enough customers who want such a product, I think it would certainly be a reasonable proposition

Yeah, but again to me it just seems tantamount the company saying 'we make inferior products'. You can either have the crap one, or the good one at a premium. Why bother admitting to making crap in the first place? Either you can make cars in Mexico or you can't.

Klaus · Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:03 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
... and sometimes it's just brand-name premium.

Sure. But do you really know the difference?

RussianJet · Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:10 pm

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 21):
Dell sucks

Probably the best line of the thread so far.

Tugger · Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:43 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
It's all a matter of perception, but I would rather buy from a company that has good customer service and support without trying to make out it's some kind of privileged extra to be paid for seperately.

Sorry, that doesn't fly. When you are looking at two identical (or nearly) products online and one is $499.99 while the other is $513.99 you will buy the cheaper one. And if you say "If they state that the more expensive one has USA based customer support, I'd pay the difference" then you are saying you like what Dell is doing. Just like people here state that baggage fees may be a good things because then you pay only for the services you use, here Dell is giving customers a choice to pay for services that they prefer, if they care.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 21):
Dell sucks

Probably the best line of the thread so far.

Actually its just a childish statement, just like saying "Southwest sucks". In the industry Dell established a new paradigm and built a company that came to dominate the market for years. While they may have had, an may still be having some, problems they are still a force in the consumer PC industry and are becoming one on the enterprise side. You may not like them, they may have given you bad service the past few years, but they do not just "suck".

That they are trying to give customers what they want and testing new to achieve this is a good thing.

Tugg

stasisLAX · Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:49 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 25):
That they are trying to give customers what they want and testing new to achieve this is a good thing.

I have been a Dell corporate/business customer for about 10 years, so I speak from experience. They suck.

QXatFAT · Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:00 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Probably the best line of the thread so far.

I'll second that.

For one thing, I have no problem calling customer support and being put to India to get some help. When you show patience, they normally help you out by doing something far out, like giving me a new laptop from HP Smile

.

Here is my thought on the whole thing though and what I do...

...I go to Best Buy and purchase my Sony laptop and buy the 2 or 3 year extended warrenty from them. It not only covers Sonys plan but also more things from themselves. Take this over to the Dell that Best Buy sells now...

...Buy your Dell laptop for lets say $600. Your option is to pay $12.95 a month to get American help in English or not at all. If you pay this for 2 years you are spending $310 in English care. Why not spend the $140 it normally is for a 2 year extended warrenty from Best Buy, speak to someone in person at your local Best Buy and get your problem fixed!

That is why I do what I do. I work with English speakers and get extended coverage.

jetstar · Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:57 am

If you call for tech support goes to an offshore call center, just ask for second tier support, if they refuse then ask to speak to a supervisor.

Either way in almost all cases you will get transferred to a US based call center. The trick is to get their toll free number, which is different from their normal call center number so in the future you don’t have to go through India or some other country for future support.

I have done this and it works, even with other companies using off shore call centers, I just did it will Delta Airlines, got a US based supervisor to answer questions the call center operator didn’t know what I was talking about, but she would not give me the direct toll free number for future questions.

JetStar

ltbewr · Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:30 am

I have had mixed experiences with India based techs for Dell and other products. There are those with good English comprehension and those that are like talking to a wall. Sometimes, I found it was better to hang up and dial up again and get someone else. There is also e-mail and web blogs from the manufacturer or independent sources that can be useful as well.

Having some understanding about computers can help too. For some simple to diagnose problems, most India based techs can be satisfactory. The problem is when the problem is a bit more complex, especially software based ones and Dell should direct you to a tech with better language skills, or even elevate you to a USA based rep without any additional charges.

KaiGywer · Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:24 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
No, fortunately not. I prefer my german support without a heavy american accent...!

Smartass

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 16):
Kentucky? West Virginia? Alabama?

I don't know...it might be easier to understand Bob from Bangalore Silly

Klaus · Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:35 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 30):
Smartass

You asked for it, you got it! Big grin

Dougloid · Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:40 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 30):

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 16):
Kentucky? West Virginia? Alabama?

I don't know...it might be easier to understand Bob from Bangalore

OK. North Dakota. Pipestone County Minnesota. South Dakota. Western Nebraska. All of Iowa except Des Moines. Most of New Mexico.

Those are all third world countries.

Dougloid · Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:48 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
No, fortunately not. I prefer my german support without a heavy american accent...!

One time when i was living in Michigan a friend came to visit who'd recently transitioned from his GS550 Suzuki to a BMW twin. We went to the local motorcycle dealer to look around and he told the salesman (of Suzukis) that he'd had a pretty bad experience with his GS550 (He had-lousy oil pressure that was traced to a warped oil pump cover that would open up at high temperatures). The salesman said "Where are you going to get that fixed? We have support all over the country." Whereupon my friend said "Well, if you have something that never needs fixing who cares about the support?"

I guess the point is that it is better to have reliable gear.

Klaus · Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 33):
I guess the point is that it is better to have reliable gear.

Or both reliable products and proper support...!

RussianJet · Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:58 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):
Or both reliable products and proper support...!

Ah, but if the product is super-reliable then there will be no need for support! Big grin

smcmac32msn · Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:30 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
It simply says that if you want something, you should be ready to pay for it – period. Either by paying an appropriate price for the product initially or – if you've opted for the cheap product – after the fact when you need the support you had thought you could "save" on.

It's all a matter of perception, but I would rather buy from a company that has good customer service and support without trying to make out it's some kind of privileged extra to be paid for seperately.

After mine and my girlfriends experience with Dell equipment...... buy something else, these computers they sell are obviously the "cheap" option. Nothing but problems.

ag92 · Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:12 pm

After reading some of this, I am really surprised as the service in Singapore is absolutely amazing, and have been a Dell fan since my first product with them a Dell Axim X51v, since then I have bought a LCD monitor and after that bought a PC, of coruse when school came the thought of buying a laptop came from Dell but I was advised to buy a REALLY light laptop so I then had to buy a Vaio rather then Dell, but here is a very simple conversation I had with Dell

Axim X51v,
I was climbing down some stairs looking at my pda and I lost my footing, fell down, and cracked my screen. I wasn't worried because I had the Complete Cover, so when I called them I told them exactly what happened (honestly) and said the request to replace my PDA would take 1business day but would most likely get cleared. Of course later that day the delivery team called me to what times I am free in 2 days so they can deliver my PDA.

XPS420
I came back after a small vacation to find my PC wouldn't turn on, I contacted the support and went through some troubleshooting some of which I had tried before and told them I have done all this and they avoided repeating those steps with me. They then asked me if I would like to open up the casing to play with the internals when I said I don't know PC's that well, then he said they will send a technician over in the week and a few hours later I got a call from the technician on the times he can come spread over the week. He came the next day with alot of spare parts, adn just slowly removed them one by one, and finally replaced the powersupply, graphics card and motherboard and just asked me to sign the paper and left without taking any money.

j.mo · Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:41 pm

Basically what Dell is saying is; We know our outsourced call centers SUCK. Pay us even more money and we will give you competant help.

Just don't buy from Dell.

JM

bhill · Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:54 am

Dell DOES suck. They have become the Walmart of the PC industry. I will never buy from them again, and I am an IT consultant. After purchasing a system for 25 users and servers for a small office system..never again. It's bad enough to get someone that does not understand their product lines..but with English as a second language? Please...Dell has commited the same error that HP under Carly Fiorina; too much growth to fast just to get market share they probably could not support.

greggarious · Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:03 am

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 21):
Remember when you're speaking to an off-shore call center that the person you are speaking to is NOT governed by U.S. laws. Speaking to a CIGNA insurance claims representative, your health information is not protected.

That is extremely interesting information. Thanks for the advice!

flybyguy · Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:05 am

I think what Dell is doing is abomidable. I think to pressure more people to pay for American tech support they will make the overseas call centers worse.

Personally, I've had very good experiences with the Indian call centers for Dell. They've always been quick to address my problems and it seems Dell gives them a lot of leeway in solving customers problems... that's a very good thing. I however had very bad experiences with other companies (banks, health insurance, etc.) that choose to use overseas call centers. I'm even more concerned about identity theft considering that they can ask for very personal information and are not governed by the laws of the customer's country.

BTW does Apple have overseas call centers for its PC tech support?

Klaus · Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:42 am

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 41):
BTW does Apple have overseas call centers for its PC tech support?

Well, my calls so far apparently have ended up in a call center in Ireland, which technically is "overseas", but I've never had anyone who wasn't a native german speaker or indistinguishable from one. But maybe we're just lucky that very few indian people speak any german at all...!

In the US your best source for support is probably your local Apple store anyway (we've just gotten the first german one in Munich); Especially when you're just considering the switch a one-to-one training session in the store should be hard to beat.

But they've also got several US-based call centers. I generally get a questionnaire via email shortly after my call inquiring about my satisfaction with various aspects of the support event. From all I know, Apple seems to take the results rather seriously. And it shows up in customers' general satisfaction level.

[Edited 2009-01-04 01:53:36]

Dougloid · Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 41):
abomidable

Do you mean "abominable", as in "Abominable snowman"?

itsjustme · Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:50 pm

Quoting J.mo (Reply 38):
Basically what Dell is saying is; We know our outsourced call centers SUCK. Pay us even more money and we will give you competant help.

Just don't buy from Dell.

Finally someone gets it.

yowza · Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:11 pm

Ultimately Americans will vote with their feet. Everyone talks a big patriotic game but when push comes to shove I'm going to guess that the majority of people take the "cost effective" option. Of course if they are called out on doing so they will blame the economic climate for their decision.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
Actually it's an awesome idea. If you want to talk to "Bob in Bangalore" after waiting 30 minutes, don't pay. If you want to talk to someone who speaks more English than their scripts spell out, and get it done within a few minutes, pay up.

I'm surprised nobody thought of this earlier.

As you've already pointe out the chances are good that Bob in Bangalore speaks better English than a good portion of the US.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Can't agree. What they're basically saying is that if you want good customer service then you have to pay extra for it.

Who's to say that the Dell's India CC operations are any better or worse than what is available in the US? Ever called godaddy.com support in deepest Texas? Believe me those calls are like trying to explain Pythagoras Theorem to a tampon.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Not in the US. Here it's all about how to do it as cheap as possible, regardless of customer service.

Free market economy anyone?

YOWza

Dougloid · Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:30 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 45):
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Not in the US. Here it's all about how to do it as cheap as possible, regardless of customer service.

Free market economy anyone?

heavens to betsy! Are you saying there's a down side to laissez faire capitalism?

I'm shocked to find that gambling is going on in this establishment.

Major Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

Big version: Width: 377 Height: 477 File size: 77kb

Claude Rains

RussianJet · Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:34 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 45):
Who's to say that the Dell's India CC operations are any better or worse than what is available in the US?

It's not the fact that the support is in India that leads me to this conclusion. Rather, it is simply the fact that they are marketing a seperate, US-based support as a premium product, and therefore one can reaonably assume that it is supposed to be better in some way than the free alternative.

yowza · Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:03 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 47):
it is simply the fact that they are marketing a seperate, US-based support as a premium product,

Well as I mentioned Americans love to bitch about things being shipped away from their shores. Now the choice is in their hands; buy American support at an American price of use the support included in the packaged price. Dell is a business not a government department. Indian CCs are used over American ones for the same reason Korean, Chinese and Taiwanese components are favored over American made ones, they're cheaper and they get the job done. Don't like it don't buy it, I fail to see what the problem is.

YOWza

Kiwirob · Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:48 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
If you want to talk to "Bob in Bangalore" after waiting 30 minutes, don't pay. If you want to talk to someone who speaks more English than their scripts spell out, and get it done within a few minutes, pay up.

Considering that Bob in Bangalore probably speaks better English than Billy Bob in Texas isn't this a backwards step? Maybe some of you don't realise it but English is an official language in India, millions of Indians have English as there first language.

I used to work for NCR, about 8 years ago all call centers for Asia Pacific and Europe were moved to India, after a few niggles we found that service improved, customers were happy. It was a success.

[Edited 2009-01-05 11:56:28]

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