|Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 50):|
Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 48):
Once you set foot here, it's back to a normal society where the police has the guns and citizens abide by the law.
I would like to see you try and post something that doesn't drip with condescension.
Your logic is dangerous, Wunala. What you could potentially suggest with such thinking is that the police and militias are the only legitimate holders of firearms and that law abiding citizens should not own them. That is a frightening prospect unless you fall for the utopian notions that:
1. The police are always available to assist you
2. The police will always arrive in a timely manner
3. The police can always be trusted
Gun crime is a problem no doubt, but the actions of a fringe minority on the edge of society should not be used as a justification to strip the law-abiding majority of one of their most important civil rights. Firearm regulation hits those people with far greater consequence than it does the villains.
Frightening? Let me tell you about my country...New Zealand... We do not consider ourselves to live in some kind of Utopia for starters... As for frightening... the thought that any person around you could be some nutcase with a gun in their pocket or back is a lot scarier than that same person only having access to a knife.
1) The police here are generally always available to assist you.... we don't bother to go through a whole process of splitting our police into City, County, State, Federal etc... we have once Police force although the country is divided into districts which fully co-operate and have the same equipment as each other.
2) Out in the country it can take a little longer for the police to arrive, then again crime in rural areas is generally of a lesser degree and very infrequent compared to urban areas.
Now in my previous post I specifically referred to hanguns (although automatic weapons etc should have also been mentioned). Guns do have a purpose in rural areas in the form of shotguns or rifles for animal control etc etc I'm not opposed to that and I quite like shooting rabbits and possums (both are considered pests here). It is much harder to conceal a shotgun (even saw-off) or a rifle compared to a handgun or uzi etc. Not to mention that its a lot harder to go on a shooting-spree with a rifle than it is with a handgun!
3) Police can be trusted.... over here they are.... (except when writing speeding fines!!!). I guess since corruption here is considered amoungst the lowest in the world there aren't really dirty cops here. Police here in normal duties are not armed with guns. The only police in New Zealand that are required to be armed with guns are the Airport Police (due to ICAO/Interpol whatever regulations), and the Armed Offenders Squad (AOS). The rest have until very recently got by without vests, or anything besides a baton and a maglight torch (they have vests now and pepperspray with some having tasers). Now the Police cars often have a handgun in the dashpocket and a rifle in the boot/trunk but the police don't walk around with them often.
Quite simply the crims don't usually have guns (some of the drug gangs have had the odd gun that they have managed to sneak in from Asia or the US). Since the police don't come across guns very often, they don't themselves need to be armed and the general public feels pretty safe that they aren't going to get shot by anyone. If anyone does pull out a gun, everyone knows about it and that person stands out to police because of it and is easy to track down.
Back to your post.... you mentioned militias... we don't have those.... we do of course have the Government Ministry of Defense (which like your own Defense Dept is made up of Army, Navy, Air Force.... we don't however have Marines or National Guard/Coast Guard). I know historically there were reasons for militias in America and there are differences (the biggest of course being that America is a lot bigger and is a Super Power in regards to the Defense Dept).
Now despite them being descended from a bunch of convicts
, even Australia has managed to clean up its act regarding guns
|Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 53):|
You call it utopian, I call it reality in Europe, Australia or Canada
I know you Aussies like to consider New Zealand to be just like another state, but come on surely we fit on that list... in fact New Zealand's rate of gun crime is probably 1/4 of what Australia's is which is in itself a small fraction of what America's is.