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baroque
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Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:31 pm

This looks like a re-run of a previous rather bad plot:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm
Israeli F-16 bombers have launched a series of air strikes against key targets in the Gaza Strip, killing and injuring scores of people.

Medical staff and Hamas officials said at least 140 people were killed when missiles hit security compounds and militant bases across Gaza.

The strikes, the most intense Israeli attacks on Gaza in recent times, come after the expiry of a truce with Hamas.

Israel said it was responding to continued rocket attacks from Gaza.

Palestinian militants frequently fire rockets against Israeli towns from within the borders of Gaza.


How original. And based on previous runs of the same plot, how productive!
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:35 pm

I was just about to post this.

Regardless of what Hamas is, acts like this only serve to sow the seeds of hatred yet again for the years to come. Revenge, bloodshed, punishment. There will never be peace if this is how the Israeli government, the party who should be taking the moral high ground, is going to continue behaving. Sad beyond belief.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:40 pm

So, Hamas fires at times 80 missiles a day into Israel and that is some how OK with you guys?
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:40 pm

No two ways about it - Israel is a straightforward 'evil regime.' The world will know no peace until they are brought to heel.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:42 pm

Great job Israel, world peace is one step closer now
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:42 pm

After this Israel have no sympathy from alot of people in the international forum from what I have read and seen.

A third of the dead are civillians and the force is excessive. Israel have just created a new flock of suicide bombers. This is one of the most high density populated areas in the world and even with the most upto date missiles Israel knows they will kill innocent people.

There is no difference between the Israeli government and Hamas IMHO. They are both terrorist groups.

If Tel Aviv and other Israeli cities get bombed now then I dont think anyone will have any sympathy after the Israeli government have murdered in cold blood innocent civillians.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:46 pm

Are you guys missing the point here? Israel has been getting attacked by missles from GAZA for how long now?

Why is this OK? Take your blinders off and read the story.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:49 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Are you guys missing the point here? Israel has been getting attacked by missles from GAZA for how long now?


and Israel has been retaliating since when? Both sides are murderers, difference is one side is backed by the western world ans the other one isn't, but they both commit the same crimes.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:51 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Are you guys missing the point here? Israel has been getting attacked by missles from GAZA for how long now?

Where are YOU coming from, Dtwclipper? As far as I'm concerned the whole of Palestine (in which I, for one, include the territory which is currently designated as 'Israel') is just one vast concentration camp. Complete with walls and fences........

The only difference between the respective occupants is that the Palestinians are the prisoners and the Israelis are the guards........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:52 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
So, Hamas fires at times 80 missiles a day into Israel and that is some how OK with you guys?



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Why is this OK? Take your blinders off and read the story.

I for one am fully aware of that. Who as said that it is 'ok'? It clearly isn't. However, you know this goes way deeper than just recent events, and if these decades have shown anything, it's that bombing the shit out of the Palestinians only makes things worse. Would you seriously say that this, with all the resources at their disposal, was the only option open to the Israeli Government? I find that hard to believe.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:54 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 7):
Both sides are murderers, difference is one side is backed by the western world ans the other one isn't, but they both commit the same crimes.

You have it 100% correct. And just because certain Western countries prop up the terrorist Israeli government it does not make it any more legitimate.  checkmark   checkmark 
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:55 pm

There is only one solution. What is now called Israel has to be moved out to a different location and the Palestinians should be given their land back.

It appears that IDF are going for an Arab massacre in Gaza again.

regularly updated ticker from Haaretz,
two places inside Israel struck by Hamas rockets, one house takes direct hit

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

13:50 IAF struck total of 40 targets simultaneously in Gaza salvo (Channel 10)

13:42 Palestinian rocket directly hits home in Israeli town of Netivot (Ch. 10)

13:24 Palestinians fire two rockets which explode in Ashkelon (Channel 10)

13:17 Egypt opens Rafah crossing to absorb injured Palestinians (Haaretz)

13:12 Hamas: War in Gaza is like Second Lebanon War (Channel 10)

 Wow!  

[Edited 2008-12-27 04:57:09]
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:02 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 10):
You have it 100% correct. And just because certain Western countries prop up the terrorist Israeli government it does not make it any more legitimate. checkmark checkmark

Definitely. There is also one other difference - one is a known terrorist organisation, the other one is supposed to be a responsible, democratic government. Sometimes it's hard to tell who is playing which role at any given time.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:04 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
There is only one solution. What is now called Israel has to be moved out to a different location and the Palestinians should be given their land back.

I partly agree but in reality its not totally viable. I think Israel should be split into two and a separate Palestinian state be created and housing built and infrastructure paid for by the USA and other countries that have poured billions of $$ into Israel over the years.

That is the only moral thing to do. How can people expect a homeless people to live in such terrible conditions. The land re distribution should go to the international court and if Israel refuses it should be enforced by a UN military response.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:07 pm

Egypt condemns Israeli raids on Gaza
Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:23am EST

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4BQ0XR20081227

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt condemned Israeli raids which killed more than 140 people in Gaza on Saturday and said it would keep trying to restore a truce between Israel and Gaza.

A presidential statement quoted by the state news agency MENA said Egypt held Israel responsible for the deaths and injuries that result from the raids. "Egypt condemns the Israeli military attacks," the agency added.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:14 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
As far as I'm concerned the whole of Palestine (in which I, for one, include the territory which is currently designated as 'Israel') is just one vast concentration camp. Complete with walls and fences........

The only difference between the respective occupants is that the Palestinians are the prisoners and the Israelis are the guards........

Let's call it what it is - a ghetto.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:16 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 13):
That is the only moral thing to do. How can people expect a homeless people to live in such terrible conditions. The land re distribution should go to the international court and if Israel refuses it should be enforced by a UN military response.

Which, I'm afraid, is also unrealistic and impossible. The UN wil never go against Israel in the way it did against Iraq in the Gulf War. Israel has too many good friends

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
There is only one solution. What is now called Israel has to be moved out to a different location and the Palestinians should be given their land back.

That would just mean that the problem will be someone else's who will feel their land taken away from them.

Honestly? I don't see any solution as long as Israel acts as an oppressor and Hamas is an active terrorist organization. They need to reach an agreement. Problem is, whenever they seem to be able and actually sit down in the same room together, you have orthodox crying "treason" all over the place and boicotting any possible peace process.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:17 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
is just one vast concentration camp. Complete with walls and fences........

You are actually quite right. People caged in like animals and barely have enough food and then being bombed from above with no where to run . Hmm reminds me of 1940's !!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:20 pm

Israel probably gave Hamas some radically impossible requirements, and Hamas said no... and now Israel is punishing them for not doing the (deliberately) impossible things they demanded of them.

Israel is nothing but a petty tyrannical hegemony.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:24 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Israel probably gave Hamas some radically impossible requirements

You mean like, stop firing missles into Israel?
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:33 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm

Israel says the blockade - in place since Hamas took control of Gaza in June 2007 - is needed to isolate Hamas and stop it and other militants from firing rockets across the border at Israeli towns.

So the blockade has been a spectacular success. No doubt we will see how bombing does.

If anyone else babbles for CALM*, I would personally like to strangle them. Why ever do we accept saying the word "calm" is a substitute for doing something useful?

*Op cit International reaction was swift and expressed concern, with many world leaders calling for calm and an immediate ceasefire.
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Let's call it what it is - a ghetto.



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 17):
Hmm reminds me of 1940's !!

Exactly the way I feel, Russianjet, Oa260.

Israel is treating the Palestinians in exactly the same way that the Germans treated the Jews.........

A sad irony indeed.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
avi
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:41 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 4):
Great job Israel, world peace is one step closer now

No, but I guess you think about 1000 Palestinians rockets from the beginning of November into Israeli cities (targeting only civilians) brought peace closer.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 5):
After this Israel have no sympathy from alot of people in the international forum from what I have read and seen.

Why does something tell me that you have no idea about the heavy attack on Israel civilians in the past 2 months?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
13:12 Hamas: War in Gaza is like Second Lebanon War (Channel 10)

Someone should remind Hamas that before the war Hezbollah attacked Israel every 3 months or so and since the end of the war (almost 2.5 years ago) they didn't attacked us even once (because they know we will react).
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flexo
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:42 pm

Wow, lot of anti-Israel sentiment here.
Imagine some Americans would fire missiles into Canada and the US would not do anything about it. Surely everyone would agree that Canada then would have the right to defend its borders.

The hipocrates on this board and the biasedness is sometimes hard to understand.

Israel's citizens have every right to live in peace from the treacherous attacks and I hope the government of Israel will take every action to stop them.

The Palestinians need to learn that peace is not a one way street. Unfortunately it seems they only understand it the hard way.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:46 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 24):
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 4):
Great job Israel, world peace is one step closer now

No, but I guess you think about 1000 Palestinians rockets from the beginning of November into Israeli cities (targeting only civilians) brought peace closer.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 5):
After this Israel have no sympathy from alot of people in the international forum from what I have read and seen.

Why does something tell me that you have no idea about the heavy attack on Israel civilians in the past 2 months?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
13:12 Hamas: War in Gaza is like Second Lebanon War (Channel 10)

Someone should remind Hamas that before the war Hezbollah attacked Israel every 3 months or so and since the end of the war (almost 2.5 years ago) they didn't attacked us even once (because they know we will react).

Avi, there is just no point with these folks, they really don't care about facts, only the PR job that HAMAS is able to garner.

HAMAS doesn't care if 155 or 155,000 of their own are killed, just as long as they make themselves out as the victims.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:52 pm



Quoting Flexo (Reply 25):
The hipocrates on this board and the biasedness is sometimes hard to understand.



Quoting Flexo (Reply 25):
would not do anything about it

Nonsense, because:

Nobody has said they should 'not do anything about it'.
Nobody has said this is acceptable behaviour from Hamas.

I find it hard to understand, however, that a supposedly modern, well-resourced government can only think of blood and revenge as a tactic for dealing with such problems time and time again, in stric defiance of the blindingly obvious fact that it does nothing to resolve the overall problem.
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avi
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:55 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
Avi, there is just no point with these folks, they really don't care about facts, only the PR job that HAMAS is able to garner.

I know. Just few words and that's it. You won't see me too much in here.

[Edited 2008-12-27 06:26:01]

[Edited 2008-12-27 06:27:04]
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:56 pm



Quoting Flexo (Reply 25):
Wow, lot of anti-Israel sentiment here.

Not just Israel, Flexo - I'm just as critical of any OTHER nation states that practise extreme religious and racial prejudice, as Israel does.

Quoting Flexo (Reply 25):
Israel's citizens have every right to live in peace from the treacherous attacks

Arguably not, when they are living on someone else's land.....and taking yet more of it, month by month........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:56 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 24):
Why does something tell me that you have no idea about the heavy attack on Israel civilians in the past 2 months?

Yes we all do . We see all sides but I think Israel has a bit more strengh than its refugee neighbours dont you think ? Palestinians are attacked by Israelis all the time.

Masked settlers beat Palestinian farmers near Nablus

By The Associated Press

Tags: Nablus, West Bank, Settlers

Masked Jewish settlers beat and injured Palestinian farmers in a field near the West Bank city of Nablus on Tuesday, Palestinian witnesses and doctors said.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/938238.html

Quoting Flexo (Reply 25):
treacherous attacks

So where are the Palestinian F-14's then?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
they really don't care about facts

Thats rich coming from the USA. A country that never cared about facts in its recent military campaign.
 
flexo
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:56 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
Nobody has said they should 'not do anything about it'.

So what do you suggest? Peace talks obviously led to nothing.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 24):
No, but I guess you think about 1000 Palestinians rockets from the beginning of November into Israeli cities (targeting only civilians) brought peace closer.

Absolutely not, but as has been mentioned before, Hamas is a terrorist organization, yet Israel is a sovereign state, and they should do everything to avoid civilian casualties. I don't see the Israeli military caring too much about that.

Quoting Avi (Reply 24):
Someone should remind Hamas that before the war Hezbollah attacked Israel every 3 months or so and since the end of the war (almost 2.5 years ago) they didn't attacked us even once (because they know we will react).

I don't haver any particular positive or negative feelings towards any of the sides involved, but I can understand -not justify - why the palestinians are far from happy of having Israel there. So it's Israel that has to have the first step, without the extremist opposing every single peace attempt.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:02 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
HAMAS doesn't care if 155 or 155,000 of their own are killed, just as long as they make themselves out as the victims.

Neither does Israel. That's the problem and that's why I said that both sides are to blame, yet one is backed up by the western countries and the other one isn't. Civilians are victims on both sides, and the israely military are as terrorists as Hamas, but with more killing power
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:07 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 30):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
Avi, there is just no point with these folks, they really don't care about facts, only the PR job that HAMAS is able to garner.

I know. Just few words and that's it. You won't see me too much in here.

Not my words. Please be more careful, and please delete. That is not representative of my views.

If you think this is about people believing a 'Hamas PR job' then you really have no idea of why people really dislike your country so much. Perhaps, just once, if Israel could come out with a more considered, intelligent response than blowing people up in such a clumsy way, people might be more willing to listen.

Quoting Flexo (Reply 33):
So what do you suggest? Peace talks obviously led to nothing.

What, peace talks obviously led to nothing so we'd better try bombing another hundred times or so just to make sure it really doesn't achieve anything useful at all?
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:09 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 35):
countries and the other one isn't.

And where is Hamas getting these missiles? Why don't you look at that situation before blaming the entire issue on the 'West'.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:11 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
Hamas is a terrorist organization

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
yet Israel is a sovereign state

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
I don't see the Israeli military caring too much about that.

 checkmark   checkmark 


Exactly , The Israeli military and troops are known for their human rights abuses.
 
Gman94
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:11 pm



Quoting Flexo (Reply 33):
So what do you suggest? Peace talks obviously led to nothing.

They probably didn't work because any peace terms are always in favour of Israel and punitive against Palestine.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:13 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 37):
And where is Hamas getting these missiles? Why don't you look at that situation before blaming the entire issue on the 'West'.

Don't know, but that's not the point. The point is that no matter what Israel does, the US will back their actions, or at worse, will not condemn them. that's what I mean. If Iran bombs Tel Aviv, how would the west react? Would it let it pass or would a war break out, UN sanctions and everyone crying for the civilian deaths involved? So, what's the difference when Israel does the same?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 40):
Don't know, but that's not the point

That is the point. You folks are so fast to jump on Israel and the West, but don't care about the facts. Who is supplying the missiles to Hams? How many attacks must Israel tolerat? Why is it OK for them to fire 80 some a day into Israel?

Stop ignoring half of the story!
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 37):
Why don't you look at that situation before blaming the entire issue on the 'West'.

On that point, Dtwclipper - and genuinely trying to encourage a more constructive debate - what concessions do you consider that Israel should make to the Palestinians and the other countries in the region in return for peace?

Should they withdraw to the 1967 borders - which is all that the Palestinians have ever asked? Should they give the Shebaa Farms back to Lebanon? Should they give the Golan Heights back to Syria? Should they stop infuriating Jordan by taking more of their share of the Jordan waters, and practically draining the Dead Sea?

What are your 'peace proposals'?
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:20 pm



Quoting Flexo (Reply 33):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
Nobody has said they should 'not do anything about it'.

So what do you suggest? Peace talks obviously led to nothing.

Peace talks might be more fruitful if BOTH sides went in to negotiate in good faith and the supposed neutral referee had not taken sides before the negotiations started.

Then again, Israel could agree to remain within its borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlements
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:25 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 41):
Who is supplying the missiles to Hams? How many attacks must Israel tolerat? Why is it OK for them to fire 80 some a day into Israel?

Stop ignoring half of the story!

You seem to ignore half of the story my friend.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 40):
If Iran bombs Tel Aviv, how would the west react? Would it let it pass or would a war break out, UN sanctions and everyone crying for the civilian deaths involved? So, what's the difference when Israel does the same?

please, what would happen under such a scenario? Why is it that every time Iran (or Iraq in the past) opens their mouth the US, the EU, the UN and everyone else is fast threatining sanctions, yet Israel can do whatever they want, DESPITE being the most active military country in the region, having started a few wars, and having nearly invaded another sovereign state last year, and in posession of nukes. How's that for double standards?
Again, Israel is a country and should not kill civilians. Hamas are ass terrorists, we know they -as a terriorist organization- don't care about innocent lives. What's disturbing is that the israeli military also doesn't.
That's the FULL story.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
windy95
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
So, Hamas fires at times 80 missiles a day into Israel and that is some how OK with you guys?

And no one started a thread condemning Hamas on that one.  Yeah sure

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The only difference between the respective occupants is that the Palestinians are the prisoners and the Israelis are the guards........

If my geography does not fail me Gaza borders Egypt. Who controls that border?

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 10):
You have it 100% correct. And just because certain Western countries prop up the terrorist Israeli government

Your opinion

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 17):
You are actually quite right. People caged in like animals and barely have enough food and then being bombed from above with no where to run . Hmm reminds me of 1940's !!

They also border Egypt. What happened to that wall they tore down when they went on their shopping spree a little earlier in the year.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Israel probably gave Hamas some radically impossible requirements

You mean like, stop firing missles into Israel?

 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 


Quoting NAV20 (Reply 23):
Israel is treating the Palestinians in exactly the same way that the Germans treated the Jews.........

Except for the forced labor and gas chambers it is exactly the same  Wow! And the anti Jewish posts on this forum remind me of how the German propaganda treated the Jews before the tried to exterminate them.

Quoting Avi (Reply 24):
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 5):
After this Israel have no sympathy from alot of people in the international forum from what I have read and seen.

Why does something tell me that you have no idea about the heavy attack on Israel civilians in the past 2 months?

These people on the so called international forums have never had sympathy for Israel. Why should they start now. They forget months of rockets but remember one day of retaliation.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 26):
Do you remember Sept 11th 2001 ?? Its attitudes like that which brought this conflict onto your own soil !! Maybe think before you wish for something. As one of your own citizens said ''The chickens came home to roost'' If you think its ok to bomb innocent civillians then you will find people will turn against you even more

How come it is always "innocent" civilians. I know they are all innocent victims of the oppressive Jewish state or the imperialstic western countries that support them.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
Avi, there is just no point with these folks, they really don't care about facts, only the PR job that HAMAS is able to garner.

It is Goebbels like.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 31):
Arguably not, when they are living on someone else's land.....and taking yet more of it, month by month

Your opinion

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 32):
refugee neighbours

They stopped being refugees a long time ago.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 36):
Perhaps, just once, if Israel could come out with a more considered, intelligent response than blowing people up in such a clumsy way, people might be more willing to listen.

What did the Clinton brokered peace accord with the Nobel peace prize terrorist get Israel.?? More rockets
 
avi
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:30 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 36):
Not my words. Please be more careful, and please delete. That is not representative of my views.

Sorry, I don't know what happened.
If you take a look you will see I quoted Dtwclipper (reply 28). I used the 'QUOTE SELECTED TEXT' button and I have no idea why in my post it referred to your post and not his. Maybe a post was deleted and the system "confused" with the reply number.

I never meant to enter words into your mouth (I have no reason to).
I fixed it.
Sorry again.
Long live the B747
 
User avatar
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:38 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 46):
How come it is always "innocent" civilians. I know they are all innocent victims of the oppressive Jewish state or the imperialstic western countries that support them.

I only support the innocent civilians. I could care less about the "guilty" civilians. What's wrong with that?

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 46):
These people on the so called international forums have never had sympathy for Israel

When Israel does something to merit my sympathy I will have no problem saying so

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 46):
And the anti Jewish posts on this forum remind me of how the German propaganda treated the Jews before the tried to exterminate them.

I refer to Israel as a country, not a religion. For all I care the Palestinians could be Bhudists and Israel adventist.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
jm017
Posts: 781
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:47 pm

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:40 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 13):
I partly agree but in reality its not totally viable. I think Israel should be split into two and a separate Palestinian state be created and housing built and infrastructure paid for by the USA and other countries that have poured billions of $$ into Israel over the years.

That is the only moral thing to do. How can people expect a homeless people to live in such terrible conditions. The land re distribution should go to the international court and if Israel refuses it should be enforced by a UN military response.

The last time this was proposed, the Arabs rejected this solution out of hand. The Jews accepted this partition plan, but had to fight a war against the Arab countries since they rejected the plan. And the last time a generous compromise (i.e., reparations and the full return of Gaza, East Jerusalem and the entire West Bank) was offered, Arafat chose to go to war. I wonder if, with the benefit of foresight, the responses to both offers would be different? Israel is not blameless in all this, but the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

I don't support gratuitous violence, but a lot of people here don't seem to support Israel's right to defend itself. They were attacked and if anyone thinks doing nothing will end the attacks you are fooling yourselves. Both sides need to return to the negotiating table.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 16):
Honestly? I don't see any solution as long as Israel acts as an oppressor and Hamas is an active terrorist organization. They need to reach an agreement. Problem is, whenever they seem to be able and actually sit down in the same room together, you have orthodox crying "treason" all over the place and boycotting any possible peace process.

Yup. All true. And the reason there will never be peace is because of extremists on both sides. Someone needs to tell them both that half a land is better than none.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
HAMAS doesn't care if 155 or 155,000 of their own are killed, just as long as they make themselves out as the victims.

The Palestinians have been doing this for decades. The cycle of hate and violence continues.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
EL-AL
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 8:29 am

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:40 pm

I do not think that any country in the world can ignore constant bombardment of some of it's cities. the residents of south-west Israel live in a living hell for 8 years now. Israel only replies to attacks of it's citizens by attacking only military targets in Gaza, while the rulers of Gaza attack only civil cities. Israel has no territorial claims from Gaza, since 2005 there is no single Israeli in the Gaza strip (except one hijacked soldier, which I do not believe he is there voluntarily), there is no occupation in Gaza, so why Israel is attacked non-stop from there?

Once there are no attacks from Gaza there will be no replies from Israel. My government has obligation to keep the Israelis safe. If there is peace in south west Israel there will be peace in Gaza, as simple as that.
every day is a good day to fly
 
flexo
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:55 pm

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:43 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 46):

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 23):
Israel is treating the Palestinians in exactly the same way that the Germans treated the Jews.........

Except for the forced labor and gas chambers it is exactly the same Wow! And the anti Jewish posts on this forum remind me of how the German propaganda treated the Jews before the tried to exterminate them.

Not a bad comparison.
I, as a German, am thankful that the allied troops took such decisive action against the rogue actions of the Hilter regime so that i can now enjoy the freedoms of living in a democracy.

Sometimes military action must take place and yes, sometimes it is the best option. That some innocent family died changes nothing, Palestine must be liberated from Hamas so they can finally be free. A lot of inncoent German families died in WWII which is tragic, but it would be much more tragic if noone had done anything.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:46 pm

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 46):
And the anti Jewish posts on this forum remind me of how the German propaganda treated the Jews before the tried to exterminate them.

I think that that's exactly the point, Windy95. The Zionists (not by any means all people of the Jewish faith) are still using the memory of the Holocaust as an excuse to bash seven bells out of any kind of Arabs any time they like.

Which is distinctly odd, given that the nations of the Middle East played a smaller part in WW2 than almost any other countries. Apart from putting up with being occupied and re-occupied and fought over...........

So due to mistakes by the fledgling UN and by President Truman personally, way back in the 1940s, the 'State of Israel' was created. That remains a mistake - and also, of course, a dreadful injustice to the inhabitants of the region.

All we can do from here on is put that mistake to rights, as far as possible.

In my opinion, that process has to START with:-

1. Israel eliminating its current policies of extreme religious and racial prejudice.

2. Israel giving back stolen territories to its neighbours.

3, Israel undertaking, from now on, to comply with all current UN Resolutions on the Palestine question - INCLUDING the 50-odd ones that were vetoed by the United States.

[Edited 2008-12-27 06:50:53]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
windy95
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:48 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 53):
I think that that's exactly the point, Windy95. The Zionists (not by any means all people of the Jewish faith) are still using the memory of the Holocaust as an excuse to bash seven bells out of any kind of Arabs any time they like.

B.S... The Arabs have been using any excuse they can since 47 to eliminate the Jewish state.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 53):
So due to mistakes by the fledgling UN and President Truman, way back in the 1940s, the 'State of Israel' was created. That remains a mistake - and also, of course, a dreadful injustice to the inhabiatnts of the region.

WHy the UN and Truman. Did not the Fledgling UN and the Brits create this mess?
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza

Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:49 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 47):
I fixed it.
Sorry again.

Thank you, no problem.

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 51):
I do not think that any country in the world can ignore constant bombardment of some of it's cities

This AGAIN! Please, show us where anyone has suggested Israel should do nothing. Please, show us where anyone has said that Hamas attacks should be ignored. Nobody is saying there should be no response, so please stop using this ridiculous misconception to justify your comments.

It is the blunt, unproductive and overly-harsh response of bombing a shed load of people including civilians (again, bearing in mind that the Israeli government should be the ones acting responsibly here as, unlike Hamas, they are not a terrorist organisation) that people object to.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈

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