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Fly2HMO
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:18 am



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 44):
The best/worst I had was a guy doing 65 in the left lane the other day and after flashing twice for him to move over he just slammed on his brakes in the middle of the interstate, almost causing an accident. F'in idiot.

I flashed so many people too yesterday. 9 out of 10 times they wouldn't budge.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 44):

The standard of driving in America SUCKS.

Sad but true. Though I find Texans and Californians are not too bad, but still plenty of morons either way. I've found AZ and NV drivers to be the worst, I'm clueless as to why is that.

That being said I've driven through 28 out of the 31 states in Mexico. I actually find it Mexicans are better or at the least more courteous than American drivers, as long as you stay in the toll roads or major cities. You'll run into a lot of people that like to cruise in the left lane, but if they see you coming up behind them they'll move over to let you pass and once you pass them they'll either stick to the right lane from then on or move back to the left lane, 9 times out of 10, unlike the U.S. I rarely flash people in Mexico.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 44):
If the driving test was harder then there'd be less traffic and those who were on the roads would be of a much higher standard.

Top Gear mentioned Finland and how well people drive there. It takes 3 years to get a full license. It's pretty interesting.

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=oEsjsmJIaf4
 
don81603
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:07 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:02 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 50):
ve found AZ and NV drivers to be the worst, I'm clueless as to why is that

You've obviously not been on the Jersey Turnpike. A few years ago I had some twit in a Geo Metro try and "bully" me into changing lanes. Let's do some math here. Geo Metro VS Freightliner Columbia. She kept crowding the line to get me to move, and on one attempt, she got a bit too close, and lost her right mirror to my front trailer axle. The mirror was last seen headed south at an altitude of about 15 feet.

I also have a short video of another fool in NYC (Bronx) making an illegal u-turn (in about 3 ways, illegal and stupid). I'll try and dig it up, and send a link.

In Canada, Montreal drivers have to be the worst. Stop signs and red lights are a mere suggestion, and, to quote Jeff Foxworthy, "Yield is a personal challenge".
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:35 am



Quoting Don81603 (Reply 51):

You've obviously not been on the Jersey Turnpike.

I have not. I've yet to travel most of the east coast, but I've driven through most of the other important areas of the US.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8616
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:54 am



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 44):
The standard of driving in America SUCKS.

Are you suggesting that there is even a standard here?  duck   Big grin

Seriously though, I love how BC attacks the problem of poorly trained drivers.

We used to just read a little 50 page comic book on rules of the road, go in and write a 20 question written test. Get mom and dad to teach you their bad habits for 30 days, book a road test and you got your licence.

Now, the powers that be have come up with a great idea on how to reduce the number of accidents by new drivers. Simply extend the 30 day period of having mom and dad teach you their bad habits from 30 days to 1 year, take a road test and get a green "N" sticker for your car which restricts you to 1 passenger in the car and up until recently limit the times of day you were allowed to drive. After a couple of more years of clueless driving, take another road test and get your full class 5 license.

Yet the solution is so simple ..... mandatory driving school by a certified driving school! It won't eliminate bad drivers and accidents but I'm willing to bet it'll sure reduce them.
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 41):
In 2007, Officer David Kanapsky of the Warren Michigan police department wrote close to 2.400 citations solely for stop sign violations. A vast majority of those cited took their case to court, insisting they had come to a complete stop and they were told by Kanapsky to "tell it to a judge". Warren police officers have it in their contract they get a minimum of 4 hours "show up time" when summoned to court on their day off (I'm not singling out Warren PD - every agency I'm familiar with, mine included has some sort of minimum show up time/pay policy in place). This means, if the officer shows up and leaves 15 minutes later, which happens quite often when a case is pled and someone forgets to notify the officer, he/she gets 4 hours of overtime pay. Officer Kanapsky racked up almost $22,000 in overtime pay just from court time in 2007.

I see where you're going, but that just sounds like one scumbag officer who could have picked any violation to up his OT. Also, regarding texting, the drivers can acquire actual proof from the cell phone provider that they were not texting as opposed to the stop signs where it's just word vs. word. In stop sign cases, the court will take the cop's word every time (after all, that fine money goes to pay the judge's salary, too). The officer should note the phone number on the citation to insure the cell hone records match the one "being used".

Also, it would be pretty easy to track if this was being abused. While there would certainly be some errors where the phone was being used for GPS, etc. if there was a huge disparity in the number of citations written and guilty pleas/verdicts, it would be pretty clear who is abusing the system.

But as far as I'm concerned, ban data entry into cell phones and GPS while on the road altogether.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 48):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 43):
I assume he was disciplined for this? Sounds like serious misconduct to me.

No, but he has since been ordered by that department's highest ranking command officer to cease writing stop sign violations due to creating a credibility issue for the entire department.

Because not disciplining him restores all credibility. I don't know which is worse, the d-bag cop or the department not taking any significant action. This officer is essentially stealing from law-abiding citizens. Sounds more like the department didn't want to deal with the union.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
most US drivers can't drive properly even without any distractions..

Thats the biggest key in what Kai said...... there truly are some idiots who cant look out their windshield and figure out what turn signals are at the same time.

I do text when driving, but I do it in the city and only if it is at stop-lights. If it takes me 10 minutes to compose a message, so be it. They can wait for me to reply.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:55 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 49):
Amazing that creating such a situation that compromises the whole department is not worthy of disciplinary action.

Being told not to write any more tickets, is reprimand. There should be no reason for him to be disciplined. He wasn't out sleeping in his car for his 8 hour shift and not doing anything. He wasn't out extorting business owners on his beat, and he wasn't conducting illegal searches. He was doing his job, and thats traffic enforcement. He should have been a little more selective in how he wrote those tickets, but its not as bad as you all are making it out to be.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 52):
I have not. I've yet to travel most of the east coast, but I've driven through most of the other important areas of the US.

Try any road in Chicago.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 54):
I see where you're going, but that just sounds like one scumbag officer who could have picked any violation to up his OT.

Expand that to every cop in CA now seeing somebody with one hand on the wheel and the other shoulder drooped. "Tell it to the judge." will be a huge line in CA for any cop who takes this law seriously.

Honestly, there is a reason a lot of you guys are in aviation and not law enforcement. LEO is a lot of judgment calls on whether or not to pull somebody over. Give you an example... I drove from Door County, WI (north of Green Bay) to Milwaukee, WI (~200 mi). I had a headlight burn out the prior night while in Door County, and there aren't a lot of garages around up there to get a light replaced. By the time I got to the nearest one they were closed. I drove home anyways and was pulled over in Manitowoc and Ozaukee Counties for a burnt out headlight. I wasn't nailed for speeding though I had my cruise set for 72 in a 65. I got warnings from Manitowoc, and showed the warning to the Ozaukee cop, which he told me to get home and get it fixed with now without paperwork. Now... on that trip, I passed 6 cops, with 2 of them pulling me over for the same violation. Why didn't the other 4??? According to you guys, I should have been pulled over by all 6 cops and ticketed 6 times for an obvious violation.

Its the same thing here with texting/celling while driving. A cop might see a shoulder drooped and a glance down, but should he pull that driver over because the driver scrached his leg???

[Edited 2009-01-06 11:02:14]
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:06 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
There should be no reason for him to be disciplined. He wasn't out sleeping in his car for his 8 hour shift and not doing anything.

Just fraud...

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
there is a reason a lot of you guys are in aviation and not law enforcement.

There is a reason you are not a psychic.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
I should have been pulled over by all 6 cops and ticketed 6 times for an obvious violation.

If you repeatedly refused to remedy the situation, which was the case, then yes, you should have received a ticket for each violation. After all, the officers "reprimanded" you and you did not comply.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
A cop might see a shoulder drooped and a glance down, but should he pull that driver over because the driver scrached his leg???

If you have to look down to know where your leg is, you are a danger to others on the road, as well.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:38 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
Being told not to write any more tickets, is reprimand. There should be no reason for him to be disciplined.

I disagree. It seems clear that he was writing tickets for personal financial gain - that, in my book, is serious misconduct and not the type of behaviour one should expect from a trusted public servant. Anyway, we digress. Issuing tickets for this and other similar sorts of violations is not a perfect science and relies on a certain amount of common sense and judgement on the spot. In the case of the proposed texting ban, I still say even though obviously imperfect though the measures are, I would still rather have them than none.
 
ipodguy7
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:44 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm

Tennessee already has a law very similar to this one, fining perps $50 if caught txting while driving
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11941
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:55 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):
Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 44):
Mythbusters aren't exactly the most scientific gang out there but they tested whether cellphone driving was as dangerous as driving drunk and it was confirmed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBus....80.93_.22Killer_Brace_Position.22
Having said that I don't think they were going to say that it isn't as dangerous for fear of giving cellphone use whilst driving an endorsement...

Thanks. I did a quick search and just found this article on the subject too......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne....html

OK, so here's a question, should a pilot who gets caught on his/her cell or texting while driving be receive the same consequences against his license as a drunk driver does (or anyone where being caught drunk while driving affects their job requirements)? If not, why not? Doesn't it demonstrate poor decision making?

Also as a side question do pilots talk on their cell phones while in the air (private pilots as well as commercial, though I know my friend who is an FO for WN has said he has never done it not have the Captains.)? I know they are often in contact with traffic control and so are often "on the phone" while in flight, but texting and a cellular phones would be an added distraction.

Just for discussion.

Tugg
 
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fbgdavidson
Posts: 3922
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:51 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 60):
OK, so here's a question, should a pilot who gets caught on his/her cell or texting while driving be receive the same consequences against his license as a drunk driver does (or anyone where being caught drunk while driving affects their job requirements)? If not, why not? Doesn't it demonstrate poor decision making?

Also as a side question do pilots talk on their cell phones while in the air (private pilots as well as commercial, though I know my friend who is an FO for WN has said he has never done it not have the Captains.)? I know they are often in contact with traffic control and so are often "on the phone" while in flight, but texting and a cellular phones would be an added distraction.

Completely different! (Though I've never heard of anyone using their cellphones aloft, I thought it was in breach of FAA rules) Last time I was flying I didn't look out the window and see other aircraft right next to us and in front of us.

If a pilot was to get up and leave the cockpit then they've still got an FO there in addition to TCAS plus the aircraft is in essence flying itself. If I was to crawl into the backseat of my car on the interstate then I'd have an accident...
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:04 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 60):
OK, so here's a question

A pilot driving a car is a driver like any other and should be dealt with in exactly the same way as anyone else would be when caught breaking the law. Many professions out there require good judgement skills, and people doing these jobs all drive cars too. Drivers are drivers, regardless of the job they do.
 
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stasisLAX
Posts: 2974
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:49 am



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 53):
Yet the solution is so simple ..... mandatory driving school by a certified driving school! It won't eliminate bad drivers and accidents but I'm willing to bet it'll sure reduce them.

I personally would love to go to the Skip Barber high performance school at Laguna Seca - but of course, it costs $3000 USD for the 2 day driving course. I don't think California DMV will go for that.

But you do get to drive a new BMW 330i or a Porsche 911 (or a Boxster or a Cayman) as part of the deal at Skip Barber!  bigthumbsup 
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:18 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 57):
If you have to look down to know where your leg is, you are a danger to others on the road, as well.

Notice the word "glance".... Guess you missed it. I guess if I "glance" at a street sign, I'm a hazard too, right? Cuz I should know where I am, right? Maybe I glance at my speedometer, am I a hazard then too? Maybe if I check my gas tank level?? Am I a hazard then?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 57):
If you repeatedly refused to remedy the situation, which was the case, then yes, you should have received a ticket for each violation. After all, the officers "reprimanded" you and you did not comply.

Not much chance to comply at 8-10pm in a very lightly populated areas when I need to be back for work the next day. By your standards, I should have gotten 6 tickets, but 5 of them could be thrown out of court because of the time of day and the chance of finding an auto body shop or any other maintenance facility open to fix my headlight at that time of day. Right there, I would have cost the counties of 5 of the 6 to have paid for me to go to court. Is it still worth it in your book to write me 6 tickets?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8616
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:25 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 63):
I personally would love to go to the Skip Barber high performance school at Laguna Seca - but of course, it costs $3000 USD for the 2 day driving course. I don't think California DMV will go for that.

You could always ask .....  Silly
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12736
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:14 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 56):
Honestly, there is a reason a lot of you guys are in aviation and not law enforcement. LEO is a lot of judgment calls on whether or not to pull somebody over. Give you an example... I drove from Door County, WI (north of Green Bay) to Milwaukee, WI (~200 mi). I had a headlight burn out the prior night while in Door County, and there aren't a lot of garages around up there to get a light replaced. By the time I got to the nearest one they were closed. I drove home anyways and was pulled over in Manitowoc and Ozaukee Counties for a burnt out headlight. I wasn't nailed for speeding though I had my cruise set for 72 in a 65. I got warnings from Manitowoc, and showed the warning to the Ozaukee cop, which he told me to get home and get it fixed with now without paperwork. Now... on that trip, I passed 6 cops, with 2 of them pulling me over for the same violation. Why didn't the other 4??? According to you guys, I should have been pulled over by all 6 cops and ticketed 6 times for an obvious violation.

Its the same thing here with texting/celling while driving. A cop might see a shoulder drooped and a glance down, but should he pull that driver over because the driver scrached his leg???

Those are not particularly comparable.

First of all, a burnt-out headlight requires no judgment call. It's obvious. Your headlight is either on or off. The cop isn't going to say "well, I think that headlight is off, but I'm not sure, so I won't pull him over."

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 64):
Not much chance to comply at 8-10pm in a very lightly populated areas when I need to be back for work the next day. By your standards, I should have gotten 6 tickets, but 5 of them could be thrown out of court because of the time of day and the chance of finding an auto body shop or any other maintenance facility open to fix my headlight at that time of day. Right there, I would have cost the counties of 5 of the 6 to have paid for me to go to court. Is it still worth it in your book to write me 6 tickets?

Hey, if you want to be perfectly legal about it, you should have gotten alternative transportation. People do it all the time, for example if their registration is expired, or if they've lost their license. I'm not saying that that's what I would have done (I would have done what you did), but I also wouldn't complain if I got pulled over multiple times for it, or got a ticket.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:16 pm

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 66):
First of all, a burnt-out headlight requires no judgment call. It's obvious. Your headlight is either on or off. The cop isn't going to say "well, I think that headlight is off, but I'm not sure, so I won't pull him over."

Heres where it gets complicated. My dad used to own a PT Cruiser (there are some other cars that also do this), if you've ever been facing one with a blinker light on, the same headlight as the blinker going turns off. Not all PT Cruiser models I know of do it, but for some they did, including his. Is that a justifiable stop??

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 66):
I also wouldn't complain if I got pulled over multiple times for it, or got a ticket.

I didn't complain about it, I almost expected it and told my girlfriend to expect it too as we both knew the light was out.

[Edited 2009-01-07 09:17:14]
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12736
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:21 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 67):

Heres where it gets complicated. My dad used to own a PT Cruiser (there are some other cars that also do this), if you've ever been facing one with a blinker light on, the same headlight as the blinker going turns off. Not all PT Cruiser models I know of do it, but for some they did, including his. Is that a justifiable stop??

No kidding. I was not aware of that.

I'm actually surprised that that is legal.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:30 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 68):
No kidding. I was not aware of that.

I'm actually surprised that that is legal.

I saw it one day when he showed me that. Apparently its to improve visibility of the blinker light during daylight hours as these models had daytime running lights. Even at night, they did the same thing as I saw it on several other Cruisers at night.
 
itsjustme
Topic Author
Posts: 2745
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:51 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 49):
We call it drink-driving here, but yes - that is what I meant.

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. "Drink-Driving" infers it's illegal to drive after drinking (at least to my pea brain it does), regardless of the amount of alcohol consumed. Are your alcohol-related driving laws more strict than in the U.S.? I think ours are pretty lenient here.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 49):
I know you have issues with the enforcability of the measures under discussion, but as a law enforcement official I assume you are personally against mobile phone use whilst driving? If not, why not? If so, what laws would you like to see and, similarly, which penalties?

Some good questions. I'll preface my response by saying I take the operation of a several thousand pound vehicle seriously, mainly because I have seen the consequences when it isn't. Yes, I am against mobile phone use while driving. I am also against newspaper/map reading, make-up application, eating, animals being placed on the driver's lap, and countless other things I've witnessed that diverts one's attention from operating their vehicle. Our cell phone laws are a joke. You can't hold your phone while conversing but you can hold your phone and punch in the number you're calling (even though every study I've read says the conversation is just as, if not more distracting than holding the phone to your ear). You can't text on your phone but you can type in a string of search criteria into your GPS. And what is the penalty if you're found in violation of these laws? For texting, it's a whopping $20 (plus $70ish in "fees") but zero points on your driving record. And that's only after I can prove that you were texting and not either entering a phone number you intended to call or you were texting and not using your GPS. The answer? Ban cell phone use while driving - period. You need to make a call or send a text and it can't wait until you reach your destination? Fine. Find a legal place to stop and park and take care of it then. As for fines and penalties, first offense should total a significant amount, a few hundred dollars at least and 2 points on your driving record. The fines and points should escalate with each offense.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:55 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 70):
Are your alcohol-related driving laws more strict than in the U.S.? I think ours are pretty lenient here.

I am not sure about that. I know we have a higher blood-alcohol limit than many other European countries, but off the top of my head I can't remember what it is.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 70):
For texting, it's a whopping $20 (plus $70ish in "fees") but zero points on your driving record. And that's only after I can prove that you were texting and not either entering a phone number you intended to call or you were texting and not using your GPS.

What a joke. It's really not going to be worth your while even bothering to try and enforce this.

Thanks for the reply.
 
D L X
Posts: 12776
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
In that case I am stark raving mad. I text while driving all the time, and I have yet to crash because of it.

Do you realize how many people drive drunk regularly saying that they do it all the time and haven't had a crash yet?

It only takes one.
 
itsjustme
Topic Author
Posts: 2745
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:04 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 71):
What a joke. It's really not going to be worth your while even bothering to try and enforce this.

See my post 41. Under the right circumstances, it can actually cost the State money to enforce this ridiculous law.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: CA Invokes No Texting While Driving Law

Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:17 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 73):
See my post 41. Under the right circumstances, it can actually cost the State money to enforce this ridiculous law.

Indeed. Sounds like something worthy of the UK government's most genius law makers.

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