NFL Conference Championships

AGC525 · Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:19 pm

What's everyone's opinions?

3pm Philadelphia Eagles at Arizona Cardinals

6:30pm Baltimore Ravens at Pittsburgh Steelers

Four words....HERE WE GO STEELERS.

As much as it would be cool to have a Pa Superbowl, I think it will be the Cardinals and Steelers.

[Edited 2009-01-18 04:21:52]

san747 · Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:50 pm

As a disappointed Chargers fan, I have no choice but to root for Baltimore. Not to mention Flacco is on a historic run.

In fact, nothing would make me happier than seeing a Baltimore-Arizona Super Bowl. One team that no one thought would ever make it all the way against a team that totally turned it around with a rookie coach and QB. Two cinderella stories converging...

ltbewr · Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:42 pm

I think most likely it will be a 'Keystone State' Super Bowl, with both Pennsylvania teams winning. Both of them have more recent expereince in the playoffs, the Steelers and Eagles seem to be more complete teams with more expeienced players in key positions than the Cardinals and Ravens.

us330 · Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:21 pm

I'd really love to see the Ravens and the Cardinals battle it out. Talk about coming out of nowhere.

That said, I think it is going to be a Keystone State Super Bowl, with the Steelers taking it.

Ravens-Steelers ought to be a good ol' fashioned slugfest...first team to score wins. Can't wait to watch it.

CO7e7 · Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:35 pm

Ravens and Eagles advance to the SuperBowl. That's my prediction.

As a Browns fan, I would like to see an NFC team win it all.... because both AFC teams are our rivals!

MadameConcorde · Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:43 pm

I am a total ignoramus zilch knower about American Football and the Superbowl. Yet, I have a good friend in rural Pennsylvania who is a long time devout Steelers supporter. She will be in the stadium in Pittsburgh for today's game so I hope her favourite team will win. Considering the time difference I will find out who won tomorrow morning.

LTU932 · Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:08 pm

The match between Philly and Arizona seems to be very equal. No real differences between the two so far and the score can go either way, though the two minute warning is coming up.

As for Baltimore vs Pittsburgh, I'm a Steelers fan and I wish them all the best, but if they don't play well, and go Tennessee on Baltimore, then it's likely that the one winning the Superbowl in 2 weeks is Baltimore.

EDIT: And the Arizona Cardinals will represent the NFC in the Superbowl for the first time ever. They won 32-25.

[Edited 2009-01-18 15:23:34]

dragon-wings · Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:02 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
EDIT: And the Arizona Cardinals will represent the NFC in the Superbowl for the first time ever. They won 32-25.

I would of never guessed Arizona would be playing in the Superbowl anytime soon. I guess there is hope for teams like Detroit, Cincinnati, Houston, Kansas City, and Oakland who have been real bad for a number of years that they could make it to the Superbowl also if they get the right players and coaches.

[Edited 2009-01-18 16:03:35]

us330 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:43 am

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 7):
I guess there is hope for teams like Detroit, Cincinnati, Houston, Kansas City, and Oakland who have been real bad for a number of years that they could make it to the Superbowl also if they get the right players and coaches.

Please. The only two teams that have fan bases that have suffered as much as the Cards are Detroit and Cleveland.

Cincy has been to several super bowls, and were competitive until the past two years.
Houston has existed for less than a decade--and even then, a huge portion of Houstonians are Cowboys fans.
Oakland has won at least one super bowl and has been to one this decade--it's only been in the past five years that they have started to stink.
Kansas City is another team that has been historically very competitive and competent, only to have fallen on hard times of late.

But Arizona in the Super Bowl...wow, hell hath truly frozen over.

BlueElephant · Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:44 am

Congrats to the Cards.

Now onto the other game..

A Simple question...

Santonio Holmes had a catch that he took into the endzone and it was deemed an incomplete catch...

My Question is...Didn't Santonio Holmes take at least two steps after having complete possesion...If not I agree for sure it was an incomplete pass...But couldn't it essentially be a "Fumble" that he recovered himself?

LTU932 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:21 am

Quoting US330 (Reply 8):
But Arizona in the Super Bowl...wow, hell hath truly frozen over.

No, Hell will freeze over if the Cleveland Browns make the Superbowl, or if the Buffalo Bills finally win one. mischievous

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 9):
Didn't Santonio Holmes take at least two steps after having complete possesion...If not I agree for sure it was an incomplete pass...But couldn't it essentially be a "Fumble" that he recovered himself?

Not really. The thing was that Holmes couldn't establish posession all the way during the dive. The two-step-rule applies I believe, if the player catches a ball being close to the sideline.

rfields5421 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:30 am

Since one pool sheet had the Eagles to win the Super Bowl and another had the Ravens - I'm down to hoping Baltimore can find something in this last quarter.

Though I must say the games have been very good today - interesting and keeping my on the edge of my seat.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
or if the Buffalo Bills finally win one.

Yes, the only team to every make it to the big dance four straight years.

But Hell Freezes Over in Buffalo several times each winter - so it may happen someday.

LTU932 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:52 am

Pittsburgh is getting killed since the middle of the second quarter. Baltimore is currently just a safety away from bringing this to OT, lots of penalties have hurt Pittsburgh, I fear the worst for the Steelers.

Pittsburgh simply didn't take full advantage of the difficulties Baltimore hat in the beginning and its defence let the Ravens slowly get back in the game. And the fact that Hines Ward is out for the game is no excuse, they still have Santonio Holmes to fill the gap.

EDIT: Finally, another Steelers touchdown! Thank you, Troy Polamalu!

[Edited 2009-01-18 18:56:46]

steeler83 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:24 am

Wow!! Pittsburgh won 23-14. PIT vs Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII...

Hey, my thoughts and prayers are with Willis McGahee tho. That was one nasty, but clean hit between him and Clark. When I saw one of the Steelers linebackers apparently praying for him, it brought me to tears, knowing the utter hatred between these two teams. Who says the Steelers are classsless, as are their fans? A sea of yellow gave him a standing ovation as he left on the stretcher. Yes, they were cheering at first, but I think it was due to the fumble recovery giving Pittsburgh the ball.

I even said, "yes, we have the ball now, but that was a very nasty hit!" I sure hope they're ok. Of course Ryan Clark got up, and then I started hoping and praying for McGahee...

DARN to the Eagles losing!!!

Go Steelers, and get well McGahee!!

dragon-wings · Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:49 am

I'll pick the Steelers to win the Superbowl. I'm not going to guess the score, but I think it will be close.

BlueElephant · Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:08 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
Hey, my thoughts and prayers are with Willis McGahee tho. That was one nasty, but clean hit between him and Clark.

Mine too...that was a vicious hit. But as you said...I think it was legitimate.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
Who says the Steelers are classsless, as are their fans?

I think some of the Titan fans around here might have something to say Wink

Anyway it is interesting to know....that Ben Roethlisbergher threw 4 interception in his rookie year in the AFC Championship against the eventual Superbowl Winning Patriots.

Flaco just threw 4 interceptions.... Wink

Hoping Hines Ward is better by the Superbowl..

GO STEELERS!

FlyDeltaJets87 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:29 am

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 15):
Anyway it is interesting to know....that Ben Roethlisbergher threw 4 interception in his rookie year in the AFC Championship against the eventual Superbowl Winning Patriots.

Flaco just threw 4 interceptions.... Wink

Hoping Hines Ward is better by the Superbowl..

I look at it the other way - Arizona did something similar to the Giants last year. Only a mediocre regular season but they proved they were the best in January. In every playoff round the analysts counted out the Giants. No one expected the Cardinals to beat Atlanta. No one expected them to beat Carolina (on the road in Carolina no less) and most people probably didn't expect them to beat Philly today, especially given how they performed against Philly back on Thanksgiving. So we shall see. I hope its a good close game. Last years game, even though it was driving me nuts as a Giants fan, was one of the most exciting games to watch because it was close the entire game.

So who's coming down to Tampa to watch it?

WellHung · Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:31 am

I don't know which bandwagon is worse, the Cardinals' or Steelers'. The Cardinals have sucked for so long and now everyone in Arizona is their biggest fan. The Steelers have sleeper cells all over the place and they all throw on the Roethlisberger jersey whenever the team wins a few games.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
but clean hit

He launched himself at McGahee helmet-first and left the ground and it was a helmet-to-helmet hit. That is a big no-no. Clark could have been ejected for that. We will see how seriously the league feels about this issue. If they want to crack down on these hits as they have been claiming the last few years, Clark will be suspended for the Super Bowl.

LTU932 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:17 am

Quoting WellHung (Reply 17):
He launched himself at McGahee helmet-first and left the ground and it was a helmet-to-helmet hit. That is a big no-no.

To me, it didn't look like Clark intentionally aimed at McGahee's helmet. Even the commentators said the hit was clean, despite being a helmet-to-helmet blow.

For the NFL to punish Clark, they have to prove there was intent, and to me, there was no intent.

MadameConcorde · Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:41 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
Wow!! Pittsburgh won 23-14. PIT vs Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII...

I bet I had a happy and cheering friend in the stadium!

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 14):
I'll pick the Steelers to win the Superbowl.

I am a total ignoramus at American Football yet I hope your pick will win the Superbowl so I will have an even happier friend in the stadium at the Superbowl. She has got tickets for that too! cheerful

LTU932 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:18 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 19):
I am a total ignoramus at American Football yet I hope your pick will win the Superbowl so I will have an even happier friend in the stadium at the Superbowl. She has got tickets for that too!

No idea if French Television will show the Superbowl, but since you're near enough to Italy, perhaps you could watch on Rai Due (or, if you have Astra, on ARD (though in German only)).

EDIT: If you get NASN, it should be even easier.

[Edited 2009-01-19 00:49:38]

AGC525 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:41 pm

What a classic Steeler/Ravens game.

Polamalu was outstanding!

Next stop is Tampa!!

rfields5421 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:08 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
For the NFL to punish Clark, they have to prove there was intent, and to me, there was no intent.

No the NFL does not have to prove anything. They can issue any punishment they want on perception. Intent does not have to be proven in their system.

That said - yes he launched himself head first into the other player, but that other player lowered his head also. I don't think either intended a helmet to helmet hit. Even Clark's position indicates to me he was trying to put a shoulder into McGahee's mid-section.

I also don't think either player will drop his head like that again for a long long time. Because Clark now knows full well how dangerous that hit was, not only to McGahee but also to himself.

WellHung · Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:37 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
Even the commentators said the hit was clean, despite being a helmet-to-helmet blow.

If you watch enough football, you soon realize that many commentators have no idea what they are talking about. Phil Simms is usually pretty good, but he botched this one. In fact, he originally stated that it was NOT helmet-to-helmet when replays showed it clearly was. Just the fact that is was helmet-to-helmet doesn't automatically mean it's illegal, but launching for a helmet-to-helmet hit has been illegal for quite some time.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
For the NFL to punish Clark, they have to prove there was intent, and to me, there was no intent

How closely do you follow football?

As stated above, the NFL doesn't have to "prove" anything. The commissioner and his lackeys will review the play and determine whether or not it merits a fine or suspension. While the NFLPA will certainly appeal if there is a penalty, there is no burden of proof. Nevertheless, launching helmet-first shows intent.

mayor · Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:37 pm

Ironically, the two teams meeting in the Superbowl, were once, temporarily, merged during WWII. This quote is from Wikipedia................

"In 1944, owing to player shortages caused by World War II, the Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers merged for one year and were known as the "Card-Pitt", or derisively as the "Carpets".

AGC525 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:42 pm

The Steelers and the Eagles were also merged for a year, and they were the Steagles.

PHLBOS · Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:21 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
No one expected them to beat Carolina (on the road in Carolina no less) and most people probably didn't expect them to beat Philly today, especially given how they performed against Philly back on Thanksgiving.

Not to mention the fact that the Patriots (who unexpectedly found themselves OUT of playoff contention) destroyed the Cardinals in snowy Foxboro just before Christmas (Week 16).

Upshoot on the Eagles-Cards game: The first-half was key. The Cardinals were doing everything right (did Larry Fitzgerald (#11) grease his uniform because he seemed to slip out of the Eagles defensemen's clutches several times?) and the Eagles just couldn't get into the end-zone. In the 2nd-half, the Eagles finally woke up, took the lead only to have it snatched from them with that last touch-down. Akers missing a few kicks (something he hasn't done all season) didn't help the Eagles' either.

What a bummer, I was personally hoping for an all-Keystone-State Super Bowl. Actually, it would've been weird if it was an Eagles-Ravens Super Bowl since those 2 cities are only about 90 miles from each other.

As far as Steelers-Cardinals face-off in Super Bowl XLIII is concerned; on one hand, I am slightly leaning towards the Steelers only because they're a PA team and AFC contender (hence my New England roots). OTOH, I could root for the Cardinals because this is their first time in the Super Bowl IIRC. Tough call for me.

Until last night, I wasn't aware that they originally were a Chicago team (I'm well aware of their stay in St. Louis, mind you).

Nonetheless, I can't wait for the game... especially for the commercials. Big grin

CO7e7 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:15 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
Who says the Steelers are classsless, as are their fans?

I do... and many other Browns fans Big grin

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
Yes, they were cheering at first, but I think it was due to the fumble recovery giving Pittsburgh the ball.

I disagree... before this happened, they booed Limas Sweed for not catching that one pass... so why does it surprise you that they booed a hurt Raven? It's not like Browns fans have any class either, some idiots boo-ed Derek Anderson when he went down and he's our QB...

Between Pittsburgh and Cleveland there is no such thing as a Class.... just my opinion Wink

Quoting WellHung (Reply 23):
As stated above, the NFL doesn't have to "prove" anything. The commissioner and his lackeys will review the play and determine whether or not it merits a fine or suspension. While the NFLPA will certainly appeal if there is a penalty, there is no burden of proof. Nevertheless, launching helmet-first shows intent.

I agree with that. I watched the play and I don't think it was interntional, but as WellHung mentioned above, the NFL does not look at the intent when imposing fines and suspensions.

The SuperBowl should be a good game... Ken Wisenhunt was the Steelers offensive coordinator during the 2005 superbowl.....and now he's coaching AZ.... I wonder if that gives AZ any advantage... any thoughts?

GO Cards!

NIKV69 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:32 pm

Quoting US330 (Reply 8):
Oakland has won at least one super bowl and has been to one this decade--it's only been in the past five years that they have started to stink

Don't forget they got screwed out of going to a superbowl with that horrible call with Brady getting sacked and fumbling.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
or if the Buffalo Bills finally win one.

I watched the games yesterday with a guy from Buffalo. Can you feel his pain? 4 years and they couldn't win one and that field goal to win it. Man that is almost as bad as the Cubs.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
DARN to the Eagles losing!!!

1 out of 5 Conference championships. They need that final piece to get them over the top.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
To me, it didn't look like Clark intentionally aimed at McGahee's helmet. Even the commentators said the hit was clean, despite being a helmet-to-helmet blow.

Definately a clean hit.

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 21):
Polamalu was outstanding

Big part of why the steel curtain is the best defense in the game. He is awesome.

Should be a good super bowl. The best defense versus a very potent offense and the Cards defense is playing well too. The special team edge goes to the Steelers so should be good.

AGC525 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:14 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 27):
I disagree... before this happened, they booed Limas Sweed for not catching that one pass... so why does it surprise you that they booed a hurt Raven?

As a devout Steeler fan that has been to dozens of games at home and away, I will say I have never, ever seen a fan boo an injured player. Now I don't discount that people may of heard booing, but who knows what was going on at the time, the cameras only give you a small view of a part of the field. In fact, I waved my terrible towel when McGahee was being carted off....and it certainly wasn't done out of poor sportsmanship. But there is no doubt if the fans don't like a call, or someone misses and easy catch, you're going to hear it.

What many may not realize is the Ravens *are* the Browns. The team that is now in Cleveland is a poor, sad state and could never come close to even being a rivalry anymore. When the original team left for Baltimore, the hatred and true rivalry went with it.

The Whisenhut / Steeler match up should be interesting. I miss his style and of course the gadget plays. Priority one for the Steelers is to contain Fitzgerald. As a Pitt season ticket holder, I've been fortunate to see him play. Neutralize him and things will be much easier.

I look forward to an awesome game, and this is a great match up.

[Edited 2009-01-19 12:15:26]

us330 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:50 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 27):
I agree with that. I watched the play and I don't think it was interntional, but as WellHung mentioned above, the NFL does not look at the intent when imposing fines and suspensions.

Besides, players have been fined for doing much less. They don't call it the No Fun League for nothing.

USPIT10L · Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:08 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):

Quoting US330 (Reply 8):
Oakland has won at least one super bowl and has been to one this decade--it's only been in the past five years that they have started to stink

Don't forget they got screwed out of going to a superbowl with that horrible call with Brady getting sacked and fumbling.

That was an AFC divisional playoff game. The Raiders still had to win the conference championship to get there. It might not have happened. Wink

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 29):
The Whisenhut / Steeler match up should be interesting. I miss his style and of course the gadget plays. Priority one for the Steelers is to contain Fitzgerald. As a Pitt season ticket holder, I've been fortunate to see him play. Neutralize him and things will be much easier.

I look forward to an awesome game, and this is a great match up.

Don't forget about Bouldin. However, after his blowup at the Cards' offensive coordinator and then bolting the locker room during the postgame celebration, we may be seeing his last game as a Cardinal.

CO7e7 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:00 pm

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 29):
What many may not realize is the Ravens *are* the Browns

As a Cleveland Browns fan/season ticket holder, it breaks my heart to tell you that you are WRONG.

Only 1 player from the former Browns team is still active with the Ravens and that's their Kicker Matt Stover # 3.

The Baltimore Ravens are NOT the Cleveland Browns. They are the Baltimore Ravens... Just like the Indianapolis Colts are NOT the Baltimore Colts and the Tennessee Titans are NOT the Houston Oilers.

Yes, our Browns are struggling but YOU cannot void the rivarly between the Browns and the Steeler simply because our previous owner moved the franchise. That;s because The rivalry is not only a team rivalry... it's a city vs city rivalry... Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh. It was never only about the Browns and Steelers... it's about the cities.

Regards,
CO7e7

AGC525 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:29 pm

I'm just saying I don't see the same fire between the Browns as I do the Ravens.

I do see a big city to city rivalry with Cleveland.

steeler83 · Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:49 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
Even the commentators said the hit was clean, despite being a helmet-to-helmet blow.

For the NFL to punish Clark, they have to prove there was intent, and to me, there was no intent.

I absolutely agree, and thanks for defending me on that one! They were both turning their heads to avoid the helmet-to-helmet collision. Because the impact at the shoulders was so severe, the impact sent one another's head at each other. That was a brutal hit. I reacted to that hit before I saw that he fumbled the ball which was recovered by Pittsburgh. I am very happy that he will fully recover from that injury.

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 27):
Between Pittsburgh and Cleveland there is no such thing as a Class.... just my opinion

I think that's a valid opinion, tho... Wink

How about the jerk who ran over a Browns fan while leaving Heinz Field a few years back? Yep, I just called a "fellow" Steelers fan a jerk...

Quoting Mayor (Reply 24):
"In 1944, owing to player shortages caused by World War II, the Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers merged for one year and were known as the "Card-Pitt", or derisively as the "Carpets".

And, that club is right in that boat with the 76 Bucs and this year's Lions -- WINLESS!

Well, maybe not considering they were "only" zero-and-10... Wink

Quoting WellHung (Reply 17):
I don't know which bandwagon is worse, the Cardinals' or Steelers'. The Cardinals have sucked for so long and now everyone in Arizona is their biggest fan. The Steelers have sleeper cells all over the place and they all throw on the Roethlisberger jersey whenever the team wins a few games.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
but clean hit

He launched himself at McGahee helmet-first and left the ground and it was a helmet-to-helmet hit. That is a big no-no. Clark could have been ejected for that. We will see how seriously the league feels about this issue. If they want to crack down on these hits as they have been claiming the last few years, Clark will be suspended for the Super Bowl.

As I have said before, and as many NFL fans have said, that was a clean hit. And if you're insinuating that I am a bandwagoner, then you, my friend, have another thing coming...

I bleed back and gold, and I watch the games for all 60 minutes, win or lose... I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, and I have been a Steelers fan since my birth... I will live and die a Steelers fan. Mark my words, mate. Smile

WellHung · Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:39 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 34):
As I have said before, and as many NFL fans have said, that was a clean hit.

So?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 34):
And if you're insinuating that I am a bandwagoner, then you, my friend, have another thing coming...

No, but you sound like quite the homer (see below), which is equally as bad.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 34):
Because the impact at the shoulders was so severe, the impact sent one another's head at each other.

The "shoulder catapult" effect, huh? Is that what they're saying on your Steelers message boards?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaGJcfjTTFc

At the 1:40 mark, you can see that Clark puts his head down and the first contact is made between the crown of Clark's helmet and the side of McGahee's helmet. Shoulder contact occurred a split second later.

He launched himself, put his head down to lead with the top of the helmet and made helmet-to-helmet contact. There isn't much of a case. This is against the rules and I am expecting action from the league office.

BlueElephant · Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:01 am

Quoting WellHung (Reply 35):
He launched himself, put his head down to lead with the top of the helmet and made helmet-to-helmet contact. There isn't much of a case. This is against the rules and I am expecting action from the league office.

What you are forgetting to mention/understand is the simple fact that...McGahee ALSO put his head down...I'm sure that Clarks intention wasn't to go in helmet first.

from one of the angles it looks like Clark's shoulder would have gone in first....but McGahee put his head down also...

I don't think Clark will get called for anything on this one.

mayor · Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:01 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 32):
Quoting AGC525 (Reply 29):
What many may not realize is the Ravens *are* the Browns

As a Cleveland Browns fan/season ticket holder, it breaks my heart to tell you that you are WRONG.

Only 1 player from the former Browns team is still active with the Ravens and that's their Kicker Matt Stover # 3.

The Baltimore Ravens are NOT the Cleveland Browns. They are the Baltimore Ravens... Just like the Indianapolis Colts are NOT the Baltimore Colts and the Tennessee Titans are NOT the Houston Oilers.

Might have been more proper to say that the Ravens WERE the Browns.....Just as the Indianapolis Colts WERE the Baltimore Colts and the Tennessee Titans WERE the Houston Oilers. The teams' histories don't start when they get to their new city. The Chicago Bears WERE the Decatur Staleys and it's part of their history. The Arizona Cardinals WERE the St. Louis AND Chicago Cardinals and that is also part of their history.

Like it or not, history shows us that the current Browns are an expansion team, nothing more.

[Edited 2009-01-19 20:03:17]

mayor · Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:43 pm

My mistake. I had no idea of the deal made with the NFL to keep the legacy in Cleveland. I'm surprised the same kind of thing didn't happen with the Colts.

WellHung · Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:59 pm

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 36):
What you are forgetting to mention/understand is the simple fact that...McGahee ALSO put his head down

Classic case of blaming the victim.

If McGahee's head remained stationary throughout, Clark would have either:

A. hit McGahee helmet-to-helmet with the crown of his helmet, but lower on McGahee's helmet

-or-

B. speared McGahee with the crown of his helmet in McGahee's shoulder, chest or neck

Both are still violations of NFL rules.

These hypotheticals are the only thing you have to defend your position. If he did this, if the other guy did that.

The only thing that matters is what DID happen. The video speaks for itself.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 36):
I'm sure that Clarks intention wasn't to go in helmet first.

Considering that he DID go in helmet first, his intention was pretty clear.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 36):
from one of the angles it looks like Clark's shoulder would have gone in first....

But it didn't.

22right · Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:55 pm

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 33):
I'm just saying I don't see the same fire between the Browns as I do the Ravens.

I do see a big city to city rivalry with Cleveland.

For a real football rivalry to brew between PIT and CLE, CLE needs to have a real football team that is worthy of the energy spent in sustaining a rivalry. The current Browns are a sorry mess and it would really be useless for a team like the Steelers to strike a rivalry with such a pathetic team.

san747 · Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:19 pm

Quoting 22right (Reply 40):

For a real football rivalry to brew between PIT and CLE, CLE needs to have a real football team that is worthy of the energy spent in sustaining a rivalry. The current Browns are a sorry mess and it would really be useless for a team like the Steelers to strike a rivalry with such a pathetic team.

I totally agree, because I could easily say the same thing about the Chargers and the Raiders. Oakland has been so consistently terrible the last 5 years that its not even worth watching the Chargers play them anymore.

Chargers-Broncos is an old, heated rivalry (just like Chargers-Raiders), but Denver represents actual competition, and also recently, some direct feuding between the QBs (Cutler and Rivers)... not to mention the Ed Hochuli incident. That is now a permanent chapter of the Chargers-Broncos history.

As for the Steelers, I agree with the other posters. I think Baltimore is a much better rivalry.

CO7e7 · Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Quoting 22right (Reply 40):
For a real football rivalry to brew between PIT and CLE, CLE needs to have a real football team that is worthy of the energy spent in sustaining a rivalry. The current Browns are a sorry mess and it would really be useless for a team like the Steelers to strike a rivalry with such a pathetic team.

You don't know anything about the history of the Browns and the Steelers,...do you??

No matter how many times the Steelers beat the Browns, the rivalry between the cities will remain.., whether you like it and approve of it or not. It's not all about football.... it's about the cities, the people and the tradition.

Why don't you suggest to city of Pittsburgh and to Steelers fans to pick another team other than Cleveland to be their rival.

mayor · Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:27 pm

And yet, the Bears/Packers rivalry goes on and on, no matter how either team is doing at the time, they always seem to get up for those games.

USPIT10L · Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:10 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 42):
Quoting 22right (Reply 40):
For a real football rivalry to brew between PIT and CLE, CLE needs to have a real football team that is worthy of the energy spent in sustaining a rivalry. The current Browns are a sorry mess and it would really be useless for a team like the Steelers to strike a rivalry with such a pathetic team.

You don't know anything about the history of the Browns and the Steelers,...do you??

No matter how many times the Steelers beat the Browns, the rivalry between the cities will remain.., whether you like it and approve of it or not. It's not all about football.... it's about the cities, the people and the tradition.

Why don't you suggest to city of Pittsburgh and to Steelers fans to pick another team other than Cleveland to be their rival.

It just means more to the Browns and their fans than it does to us right now. The only bit of history with that rivalry right now is that we finally caught you guys in terms of wins in the series last year. It hasn't even been a game since, when, 2003? Only until the Browns become competitive will it mean anything more than just another division game.

FlyDeltaJets87 · Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:22 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 44):
It just means more to the Browns and their fans than it does to us right now. The only bit of history with that rivalry right now is that we finally caught you guys in terms of wins in the series last year. It hasn't even been a game since, when, 2003? Only until the Browns become competitive will it mean anything more than just another division game.

I thought one of the Browns - Steelers games in the 2007 season was pretty close - when the Browns were considered playoff contenders and would have made the playoffs.

I wish the Steelers - Bengals rivalry was more competitive. The only time it was a real rivalry was in 2005 when the Bengals won the division, and the following year when the Bengals needed to beat the Steelers to get a Wild-Card spot and failed to do so because Shayne Grahm couldn't make a 35 yard field goal (No, I'm not still upset at that wink

)

I think the Steelers have gone 4-0 against the Bengals in the last two seasons. frown

For my other team, I love the NFC East rivalries between my Giants and the Cowboys, Eagles, and Redskins. Smile

USPIT10L · Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 45):
I wish the Steelers - Bengals rivalry was more competitive. The only time it was a real rivalry was in 2005 when the Bengals won the division, and the following year when the Bengals needed to beat the Steelers to get a Wild-Card spot and failed to do so because Shayne Grahm couldn't make a 35 yard field goal (No, I'm not still upset at that )

I think the Steelers have gone 4-0 against the Bengals in the last two seasons.

The Bengals-Steelers rivalry has a LONG way to go, period. When we played Cincy in the playoffs in 2005, KDKA (Channel 2) sent a reporter to CVG to see what the local reaction was. He found ONE person wearing a Bengals jersey the Friday before the game and everyone else he talked to didn't even know the Bengals were in the playoffs, much less playing the Steelers. In Pittsburgh, EVERY Friday before a big game, you can't go anywhere without seeing people in their Steelers attire. I've been anywhere from banks to the airport and seen people in Steelers jerseys, sweatshirts, etc. I don't know if there's another city like anywhere. Like they say, when you play the Steelers in the playoffs, you really play the whole city and region.

mayor · Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:46 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 46):
I don't know if there's another city like anywhere.

Chicago is much like that and in '86 and '06, when they went to the Super Bowl, the lions in front of the Art Institute had Bears helmets on.

FlyDeltaJets87 · Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:19 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 46):

I'll agree that the PIT fan base is one of the most loyal - and spread out - in the nation. I even see it here at Embry-Riddle witha lot of students in PIT attire on the Friday before game day. I've seen a few Bengals jersey's around campus and around Daytona but not a lot. I've seen a few in Greensboro too. We have a restaurant here in Daytona - well - Port Orange - called Guisepe's (not 100% sure on the spelling) where everything inside is Pittsburgh stuff - Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins - but mostly Steelers. I did get booed when I entered the place wearing my Bengals jersey one weekend. biggrin

I think the CIN-PIT rivalry is a bigger deal to the Bengals than to the Steelers though, because the Steelers currently play some higher quality opponents that would be classified as better rivals than the Bengals. The Steelers also have a better (and bigger) fan base because they have a better history associated with the organization. However, the Bengals do have a fan base - believe it or not. I was in Cincinnati for the last week of the NFL season and even when the Bengals were 3-11-1 going into the final game, there were still locals wearing Bengals attire going into the final weekend. The locals in Cincy are fed up with the upper-level management of the Bengals but they're still loyal to their team.

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