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stasisLAX
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Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:54 am

One word for this self-indulgent and incredibly greedy behavior - disgusting  vomit 

"President Obama branded Wall Street bankers “shameful” on Thursday for giving themselves nearly $20 billion in bonuses as the economy was deteriorating and the government was spending billions to bail out some of the nation’s most prominent financial institutions.

“There will be time for them to make profits, and there will be time for them to get bonuses,” Mr. Obama said during an appearance in the Oval Office with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner. “Now’s not that time. And that’s a message that I intend to send directly to them, I expect Secretary Geithner to send to them.”

It was a pointed — if calculated — flash of anger from the president, who frequently railed against excesses in executive compensation on the campaign trail. He struck his populist tone as he confronted the possibility of having to ask Congress for additional large sums of money, beyond the $700 billion already authorized, to prop up the financial system, even as he pushes Congress to move quickly on a separate economic stimulus package that could cost taxpayers as much as $900 billion."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/business/30obama.html?_r=1&hp

Since these companies were so eager to award bonuses for horrid business performance, they should immediately return that same amount of money back to the American taxpayers who bailed these organizations out.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:59 am

StasisLAX,

You make some very good points.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:16 am

I think the President was too easy with the greedy crooks as far as language went. I hope they demand the money back. As was said on the evening news, "let them pay their bills with last years bonus's"  Angry
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MaverickM11
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonus

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:23 am

IT'S PART OF THEIR BLOODY COMPENSATION. Yeah sure If you replaced "bankers" with "union members" and "bonus" with "overtime" these two would be singing a different tune.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:37 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
IT'S PART OF THEIR BLOODY COMPENSATION

I am so sorry, after all it was only 18 billion, just a pittance, they so deserve it for all the prosperity they have brought us. I think I heard on the news tonight that 1 billion spent would bring 30 thousand jobs. Let us see now multiply that by 18 and we have 540 thousand jobs. I think that is a lot of working people who could be paid, union and non-union. Wages, not "BLOODY" Compensation, bonus's whatever you want to call it. I call it GREED.  Sad
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:39 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
IT'S PART OF THEIR BLOODY COMPENSATION.

Explain the brand new Dussault Falcon jet and the remodeled executive bathrooms that have so conveniently come after these corporations were given billions and billions of dollars in stimulus dollars and tax cuts to boot. I can kinda see how the bathroom remodeling helps some American workers, but, tell me how stashing money away and living lavish lifestyles helps those of us who lost jobs and can not find any more work?
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:46 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
Wages, not "BLOODY" Compensation, bonus's whatever you want to call it. I call it GREED.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
Explain the brand new Dussault Falcon jet and the remodeled executive bathrooms that have so conveniently come after these corporations were given billions and billions of dollars in stimulus dollars and tax cuts to boot.

You think every college graduate is making a billion dollars a year on Wall Street and gets a private jet? Not quite. Your average employee depends on the bonus to survive. Not thrive--survive. It's just a form of deferred compensation to retain the employee and/or reward them for meeting certain targets.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
executive bathrooms

I guess that BLOODY COMPENSATION, includes $35 thousand dollar "Johns". I guess some people just have such "good taste" that they demand this kind of sanitary device to relieve themselves in.  Sad
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
IT'S PART OF THEIR BLOODY COMPENSATION. If you replaced "bankers" with "union members" and "bonus" with "overtime" these two would be singing a different tune.

Really though, aren't bonuses awarded for good performance? if the company you run is going down the Sh*tter, tens of thousands of people being laid off, not to mention having to go begging to the government for huge cash infusions, i hardly call that good performance. How in the world can an exec justify accepting a bonus when the company stock is in the toilet and the comany is on the verge of a collapse that could have a domino effect on the entire economy, thus forcing the government to bail them out.

I do understand the other side of the argument, that the company is contractually obligated to pay out these bonuses, that it is part of the compensation package offered, but since when is "having a pulse the the title of VP" the sole determiner of paying bonuses? maybe on wall street it is, maybe that's the problem, the payment of bonuses should be based on actual performance, not just having a pulse and a clause in your contract that entitles you to a bonus.

Good on Obama for smacking these crooks on the hand.
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:59 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
Not thrive--survive. It's just a form of deferred compensation to retain the employee and/or reward them for meeting certain targets

That is the most used and abused line in the world. Everyone uses it to justify anything when it come to compensation, pay, whatever you want to call it. It is used by the Politicians, by the Bankers. Funny thing though, I never hear it used in relation to the common worker, Union or non-union, such as Bank Tellers.They are dispensable, not retainable, not rewardable.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonus

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:10 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 9):
I never hear it used in relation to the common worker

You've never heard of a bonus?  Confused It's used in just about every line of business, although probably not in any union setting since they don't believe in pay for performance. Y ou sell the most widgets in your company, mow the most lawns, make the most pizzas, whatever, you get a bonus.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:24 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
You've never heard of a bonus? It's used in just about every line of business, although probably not in any union setting since they don't believe in pay for performance. Y ou sell the most widgets in your company, mow the most lawns, make the most pizzas, whatever, you get a bonus.

I was a union person for many years and I was awarded a bonus many times for performance. Management took many ways to deliver them in the company I worked for. They were not always according to the book. Whether it was a dinner, a lunch, time off, even stock options were awarded to the employees, all the union people received them at times. Trust me, as a union man, I performed above the norm and was well compensated for my work. As I said, not always according to the book. I worked for one of the largest corporations in the country. Communications. We did not take government hand outs.
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stasisLAX
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:28 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
You've never heard of a bonus?

The banking industry is now faced with the difference in Administrations - The one we Americans now have is led by a President who cares about the rampant corruption in the financial industry and what its doing to not only the American economy, but also the global economy.

The truth is anyone can do anything as long as they don't get caught by the authorities, but people often forget that things are inter-connected and there are dire consequences to every greedy decision that was made - especially by financial services industry leaders. What I've seen from my 18 years in the industry is that many financial executives make choices based on their personal short term gains and to hell with any long term losses to their organization - they wouldn't be there to deal with the negative fallout. They'll been on the beach in Barbados drinking margaritas with their mistresses and counting their ill-gotten gains.  irked 

We all share the same global economy - I really think that it's time that we all (executives and non-executives alike) learn to act like we do.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:35 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
One word for this self-indulgent and incredibly greedy behavior - disgusting

Not exactly what the political leaders in New York City and New York State are calling it. They both got whallopped in the pocket book due to the drop.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282009...akes_1b_tax_revenue_hit_152412.htm

"New York state will lose a whopping $1 billion in tax revenues this year because cash bonuses to Wall Street employees plummeted 44 percent in 2008, according to a bombshell new report.

In an analysis released this morning by State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli, he estimates that the securities industry paid its New York City employees $18.4 billion in bonuses last year compared to $33 billion in 2007 -- a drop in bonuses that will also cost the city $275 million."


Yet no backing down from spending millions of dollars so government employees can get new fleets of cars. Nor any ashamedness at the fact that the White House will be redecorated by the same firm that they are bad mouthing for redecorating Meryll Lynches coporate offices.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:39 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
I was a union person for many years and I was awarded a bonus many times for performance

Then why did you say you've never heard of the "common worker" getting a bonus?

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 12):

The banking industry is now faced with the difference in Administrations

As finance wizz kids they should know that one of the downside risks of screwing up is getting more oversight. Unfortunately I'm worried, strike that, convinced that the government's solution will make it worse.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 12):
What I've seen from my 18 years in the industry is that many financial executives make choices based on their personal short term gains and to hell with any long term losses to their organization -

That goes for just about every major issue facing the world today. If anyone was interested in their long term gain there would be no smoking, no drugs, abortions, credit card debt, reality TV  Silly
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:42 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
Your average employee depends on the bonus to survive. Not thrive--survive. It's just a form of deferred compensation to retain the employee and/or reward them for meeting certain targets.

I don't think anyone should really "depend" on bonus to get by. Added $ are always nice - but should not be a part of your day to day budget. Also - I don't think anybody - even politicians - would have any problem with worker bees getting bonuses for job well done. Such bonuses would probably not add to even a billion of these $18B. The eye-popping numbers are result of the top brass / brokers making a gazillion $ a piece. How can you justify paying a top executive "bonus" for "performance" when the company is in the toilet and begging the Fed. Govt. for bailout money? Surely that does not constitute good performance.

$1400 for a freakin trash can?????
 
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:01 pm



Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 15):
I don't think anyone should really "depend" on bonus to get by

I agree, but I believe that for a lot of people in expensive places like Manhattan, they cannot survive on the base pay. The pay is structured in such a way that you have to stay with the company in order to get the bonus, in order to pay your bills. I'm not saying it's a good structure, but it is what it is, and in burning everyone that got a bonus at the stake, you're hurting a lot of very hard working people that had little to do with the meltdown.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
You've never heard of a bonus? It's used in just about every line of business, although probably not in any union setting since they don't believe in pay for performance. Y ou sell the most widgets in your company, mow the most lawns, make the most pizzas, whatever, you get a bonus.

Yes though asking for a bail out pretty much negates a bail out as you are not doing well enough, it is an oxymoron, like free rent, jumbo shrimp.
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par13del
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:29 pm

This may be a reason why it might have been better to place the bailout funds at the level of the man in the street rather than the power brokers whose misdeeds created the massive problem, one thing you can be sure of, the free market if left to its own devices would have ensured that those companies would have failed.
The bail out funds are being given with no oversight, no change in leadership, in some cases no restrictions on what and how they can be spent. Ask yourself this question, if you are getting a hefty bonus while your company is loosing 10billion because last year it lost 12billion, why would you expect anything different if the FED is now providing funds to shore up your company, I can see the lost look on their faces if that question is posed.
Another question is, does the US govt. or its people want to create bigger govt. just to monitor these funds, I don't think so, thats why the initial bail out failed, and the second should also have failed, I think the country got caught up in the feel good atmosphere of the Obama election that they decided to throw the funds out there, now that it is done, they are looking back and saying how did we do this without oversight?

Too late
 
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:59 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
He struck his populist tone as he confronted the possibility of having to ask Congress for additional large sums of money, beyond the $700 billion already authorized, to prop up the financial system, even as he pushes Congress to move quickly on a separate economic stimulus package that could cost taxpayers as much as $900 billion."

He can't talk about being frugal when he's about to spend a trillion+ in an enormous spending spree. Never mind his very lavish inauguration, too. Ten different Balls in one night? What is this, 17th century Europe? New King on the block?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
but, tell me how stashing money away and living lavish lifestyles helps those of us who lost jobs and can not find any more work?

As if that's what they do with all the money they get! They are not rich because they SPEND everything.

And btw, SPENDING is exactly Obama's idea for economic development. It's exactly what he means when he wants banks to " lend more" again, too. But I guess if you got a bail out you are not supposed to spend, just cover your costs, which also means no or lower lending. . .

It's nice that Obama closed Guantanamo, etc, but his economic policy isn't a frugal one. At one point he talks about America or Banks or whatever being in a hole and asking taxpayers to dig them out, but banks then go and dig deeper into debt. Unfortunately that is EXACTLY what the government not only has been doing, it's apparently the official policy going forwards. Even encouraging Americans to stop paying down debt and start buying more TVs and cars.
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:14 pm



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8):
Really though, aren't bonuses awarded for good performance?

 checkmark 

e.g. If a stripper doesn't perform a good lap dance for me she ain't getting a bonus. No boner, no bonus.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:31 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
One word for this self-indulgent and incredibly greedy behavior - disgusting

If those bonuses are used to buy new cars, houses, and trips to DisneyWorld, what's the difference between this sort of redistribution and other forms of redistribution mandated by the Democratic Congress and Obama? You would think that both stimulate the economy.

Someone mentioned a corporate jet earlier. While a Falcon is made in France, what if it was a Gulfstream? A GV jet is worth tens of millions, and the purchase of one ensures employment for a lot of people. We should be praying for more people to buy corporate jets and other high-value products. And if they finance it (probably), isn't that a use of bailout funds according to what it was for - the acquisition of capital products?

If anything, I would simply make it a requirement that any use of such bailout monies is limited to American-made products.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8):
Really though, aren't bonuses awarded for good performance?

On what scale? Most bonus systems are based on both individual criteria and corporate targets. Let's say your bonus is based 30% on corporate profitability targets and 70% personal achievement (targets set for you the year before) or the performance of a particular division he might be responsible for. Even if the company tanks it's bottom line, if the employee accomplished all the targets he set out with, he deserves the 70% bonus.

Now at the top level of the company, say the top 2 tiers of management, I would agree that all or nearly all their bonuses should be based on corporate financial targets, and they should get next to nothing.

But we don't know that is the case or not. All we have is a big number and screams of righteous indignation. Let's find out who got the bonuses and for what before going haywire.
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Charles79
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:50 pm

It still amazes me how some folks still vehemently defend the actions of Corporate America. Be late on your credit card payment and you find no compassion yet we have to feel sympathy for folks who already have ridiculously large salaries and, better yet, understand how they are entitled to their bonuses while their companies sink lower and thousands of employees are laid off. Oh, and all the while they received a virtual blank check from the government in the form of tax payer's money. Sorry, but the math doesn't add up.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8):
Really though, aren't bonuses awarded for good performance? if the company you run is going down the Sh*tter, tens of thousands of people being laid off, not to mention having to go begging to the government for huge cash infusions, i hardly call that good performance.

Good summary. If you make profits then by all means enjoy your bonus, but if your company lost money then no need to come asking for a bonus. That's how it works for the rest of us.

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Not exactly what the political leaders in New York City and New York State are calling it. They both got whallopped in the pocket book due to the drop.

Well that's what they get elected for, to deal with this type of situations. No different than states hit hard by the drop in house prices, you just need to adjust your budget accordingly.

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Yet no backing down from spending millions of dollars so government employees can get new fleets of cars.

Not exactly sure how this relates to the topic at hand. Do the car fleets need updating? Are the cars breaking down or repairs costs are too expensive to warrant a new fleet? If you want to discuss government expenses on a thread about wall st bonuses then perhaps we should talk about how much we have spent in the war in Iraq or how much the stimulus checks of last year cost the federal government or why we ran a deficit these pas
 
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:59 pm

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
It still amazes me how some folks still vehemently defend the actions of Corporate America. Be late on your credit card payment and you find no compassion yet we have to feel sympathy for folks who already have ridiculously large salaries and, better yet, understand how they are entitled to their bonuses while their companies sink lower and thousands of employees are laid off. Oh, and all the while they received a virtual blank check from the government in the form of tax payer's money. Sorry, but the math doesn't add up.

It's private capital. It's entirely up to the owners (shareholders) to rein in anything they deem excessive. You are looking at this as if we were talking about a government agency, but it's nothing like it.

The big problem, of course, is that we are dealing with public funds. This should never had been the case to begin with, and now we have a situation with no clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not. Buying a jet is not necessarily unacceptable, same thing with bonuses. They vary case by case. It's also easy to add up some statistics and use it to gain some political cover, and I'm not just talking about Obama, the private sector can easily do this as well.

The bail outs opened a giant can of worms of mixing public and private funds. It's not worth it to get too worked up over this now, there are good arguments on both sides.

[Edited 2009-01-30 09:03:11]
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:01 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
Be late on your credit card payment and you find no compassion

And guess who has been the most ardent supporter of the Credit Card companies, and has defended them in every way possible to protect their predatory practices that have put most American families in a financial headlock? So much so that all the major card companies moved to his state?

Senator Joseph Biden.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
yet we have to feel sympathy for folks who already have ridiculously large salaries and, better yet, understand how they are entitled to their bonuses while their companies sink lower and thousands of employees are laid off.

How do you know these are the people who got the bonuses? As I described above, what if these bonuses were for everyone all the way down to the bank teller. In companies I have worked in, every single employee has been eligable for a bonus, partly on corporate performance, but mostly on individual performance.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
Good summary. If you make profits then by all means enjoy your bonus, but if your company lost money then no need to come asking for a bonus. That's how it works for the rest of us.

Again, if you in the top tiers of management, I would agree. But what if you are several levels down, simply doing you job as best you can?

And speaking of getting bonuses while losing money, what do you think of Congress voting themselves a big fat pay raise and a sizable increase in their slush funds to pay for their office staffs, campaign trips etc?
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:45 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 9):
That is the most used and abused line in the world. Everyone uses it to justify anything when it come to compensation, pay, whatever you want to call it. It is used by the Politicians, by the Bankers. Funny thing though, I never hear it used in relation to the common worker, Union or non-union, such as Bank Tellers.They are dispensable, not retainable, not rewardable.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Then why did you say you've never heard of the "common worker" getting a bonus?

It's just a form of deferred compensation to retain the employee and/or reward them for meeting certain targets.[/quote]

I was referring to the line above by you about the need to reward to retain the employee. It is the most abused line in the business and political world to justify this madness of huge bonus-es and the pay system that has gone haywire while other people are considered disposable. I was in a unique job, most certainly are not. I know a few who just found that out while working for BofA. Shit-canned out the door without a word of warning after years of service. Of course, I am sure they were non-performers, managers and worker bees. I guess one has to have attained a certain level before the need to retain kicks in and the flood of money starts.
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Charles79
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:04 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
And guess who has been the most ardent supporter of the Credit Card companies

And that has exactly what to do with this thread?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
How do you know these are the people who got the bonuses?

Does it matter? I'm not sure which company you work for but in the majority of corporations you don't get a bonus if the company doesn't post a profit. The fact that they are laying people off yet not only giving themselves bonuses but also asking for taxpayer's money is not right.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
But what if you are several levels down, simply doing you job as best you can?

Get real Dreadnought, you know we are talking about the top executives here not the recent college grad analyst who just started with the company. Actually, I bet that recent grad is the only one not getting the bonus.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
what do you think of Congress voting themselves a big fat pay raise and a sizable increase in their slush funds to pay for their office staffs, campaign trips etc?

I think it's outrageuos and not right but what does that have to do with this thread? Why is it that folks always try to defend their point by bringing in 3rd parties?

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 23):
The bail outs opened a giant can of worms of mixing public and private funds. It's not worth it to get too worked up over this now, there are good arguments on both sides.

That's my point. Had they never ever touched that bailout money then they could do as they please. Look at Exxon, they finished the year with $45B in profits. I don't care one iota if they give their top executives $millions in bonuses because it's THEIR capital. If the shareholders don't mind it then they can do as they please. However, once you cry out that you need PUBLIC funds in order to survive then you have to business handing out bonuses, less yet while you are laying off thousands of people.

Again, I'm amazed at how far folks go to defend private companies which, at the end of the day, couldn't care less about your well being as long as they are making money. These are the same companies which ship jobs off-shore at the drop of the hat, will try and screw you out of your warranty, will leave you on hold when you call, look for ways to sell goods for less quality at higher prices, and best yet, dare you be late one single time on a payment and they are all over you like a hawk. And we try to defend them why?
 
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:23 am



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 26):
Again, I'm amazed at how far folks go to defend private companies which, at the end of the day, couldn't care less about your well being as long as they are making money. These are the same companies which ship jobs off-shore at the drop of the hat, will try and screw you out of your warranty, will leave you on hold when you call, look for ways to sell goods for less quality at higher prices, and best yet, dare you be late one single time on a payment and they are all over you like a hawk. And we try to defend them why?

I am amazed how some on here are now at least finding fault with this out and out greed. I could not agree more with you. I think it maybe sinking in a little about how much these modern day "Robber Barons" have damaged our country, our economy and our families futures.
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cpd
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:27 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 27):
I am amazed how some on here are now at least finding fault with this out and out greed. I could not agree more with you. I think it maybe sinking in a little about how much these modern day "Robber Barons" have damaged our country, our economy and our families futures.

I don't even get bonuses - I just get a day off now and then. If I work longer hours, I don't get paid for that. It just adds up as flex time.

And my pay is in a bracket - it goes to a certain level and that's it. If I want more, I've got to apply for a higher graded position.

End all of these bonuses.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:37 am

I think whatever frivolous spending has been made by these entities should be yanked out of the bailout money they received twice over.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:01 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 28):
I don't even get bonuses - I just get a day off now and then. If I work longer hours, I don't get paid for that. It just adds up as flex time.

And my pay is in a bracket - it goes to a certain level and that's it. If I want more, I've got to apply for a higher graded position.

End all of these bonuses.



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 29):
I think whatever frivolous spending has been made by these entities should be yanked out of the bailout money they received twice over.

I think we can see that no matter where we are in this world, the Big Business mind is Universal. We are expendable, exploitable and they are due their just rewards. Greed knows no borders, it is everywhere and the apologists for these people who keep on defending these policies are of the same mind. Hooray! for me and the Hell with you. I earned it, true, but on the backs of others labor.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:09 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 19):
As if that's what they do with all the money they get! They are not rich because they SPEND everything.

I have an idea: Let's try trickle-up economics for a while. It started working well under Clinton. Lower and middle class got tax breaks, had more cash and started spending more on things like food, rent, electric bills and then moved on to things like cell phones, iPods, and computers. It works. Really.

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 15):
$1400 for a freakin trash can?????

And these are the same people that said "trust me" with our money before and are saying "trust me" again with our money. Fat freakin' chance.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
mow the most lawns, make the most pizzas, whatever, you get a bonus.

Yeah. You get to make even more pizzas or mow more lawns because more is expected of you. That's the bonus. Oh, happy day!

I am curious: I know Steve Jobs recieved his $1 salary. That qualifies him as well below the poverty level. Also, with low capital gains and other similar taxes, he does not pay much in taxes. Because of his salary, he is also qualified for Medicare and food stamps, on paper, at least. Since he only has to report earning $1 per year, I suppose he could deduct a lot of medical and possibly housing costs as well. I just wonder how many of these investment bankers do this?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:40 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
Yeah. You get to make even more pizzas or mow more lawns because more is expected of you. That's the bonus. Oh, happy day!

Oh Happy Day! I love that line and the way you used it. Now there is a bonus "you" cannot spend, but the Boss can.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
cairo
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:57 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
IT'S PART OF THEIR BLOODY COMPENSATION. If you replaced "bankers" with "union members" and "bonus" with "overtime" these two would be singing a different tune.

True. What's wrong with that?

He's saying executives are already overpaid, and, as you imply, union workers or non-executives are having a rought time of it. What really is the problem with saying this?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
a lot of people in expensive places like Manhattan,

Others choose:
New Jersey Transit
The Subway
The Staten Island Ferry
A less paying job in a much more affordable city

Compensation shouldn't be based on the desired lifestyle or expensive housing choices employees voluntarily make.

---
CEO pay was 36 times what an average worker earned in 1976, 131 times in 1993 and was 369 times as much by 2005. You think this is healthy?

Cairo
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:17 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
As finance wizz kids they should know that one of the downside risks of screwing up is getting more oversight. Unfortunately I'm worried, strike that, convinced that the government's solution will make it worse.

Here's the words of John Bogle, the highly respected founder and retired CEO of The Vanguard Group.

"We see the excesses most starkly in the continuing crisis - that is not an extreme description - in our overleveraged, overly speculative banking and investment industries, and even in our two mortgage lenders, to say nothing of the billion-dollar-plus annual paychecks that top hedge fund managers draw down and the obscene (there is no other word for it) compensation paid to the chief executive officers of our nation's publicly held corporations - including failed CEOs, often even as they are being pushed out the door."

Source: http://www.mastalk.com/inquirer/10052008.htm

Greed - unadulterated greed.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
dxing
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:55 am



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
you just need to adjust your budget accordingly.

Sounds simple, yet what government leaders are doing that?

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 22):
Not exactly sure how this relates to the topic at hand.

If you are going to criticize people on Wall St. for taking what was contractually offered to them in compensation then you have to be willing to criticize the government for not cutting costs wherever and whenever they could. I can't just go out an buy an new car because I want to, why should the government?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:35 am

What the real problem here guys is the fact that these CEO's have iron-clad bonus structures, so people like MaverickM11 can try to guilt the rest of us into believing that what they are getting, is deserved.

Surely these bonuses cannot be performance driven. IF these companies have had to ask for bailout money, then they must be in financial dire-straights. Meaning, they aren't able to sustain running the business with the current income they are making, correct? (unless they are PERSONAL PERFORMANCE driven, and not corporate results driven)

If we assume that these CEO's are still getting their bonuses, it's likely that their bonus structures are just simply additional income and called a bonus, so they don't look like absolute gluttons to the rest of us. (unless again, they're PERSONAL performance driven, not corporate results driven)

What should happen, is that when the gov't starts dolling out the funds again, there should be clear and concise instructions on what is ethical (ie, no bonuses to upper management UNTIL the loans are paid back, etc, and the company is turning a consistent profit) etc.

It's no different than the same cocky attitude of the big 3 CEO's showing up to Washington in their corporate jets. how ABSOLUTELY pig headed and foolish.

This is the time for restraint and smart thinking, not pig headedness and foolish self-serving actions.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
Charles79
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:18 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 35):
Sounds simple, yet what government leaders are doing that?

Of the top of me head let me see...er...ah...none of them! But that deserves its own thread me thinks.

Quoting DXing (Reply 35):
If you are going to criticize people on Wall St. for taking what was contractually offered to them in compensation then you have to be willing to criticize the government for not cutting costs wherever and whenever they could. I can't just go out an buy an new car because I want to, why should the government?

DXing, you know very well that I criticize the government for overspending but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also, I'm not criticizing ALL bonuses and ALL companies which gave them out. My fury is aimed solely at those which received government funds under claims that they would go under without them yet continue to spend money as business as usual WHILE laying thousands of people off. Had they never touched federal funds then I would have had nothing to say but as soon as they touched that dirty money their hands became tainted. Moreover, these top executives receiving the bonuses already have large salaries and bank accounts so it's not like they could not defer their bonuses until after the company returns to profitability. And lastly, as a shareholder myself in some of these companies, I have issues with bonuses being paid when the company LOST money.

Now if you want to discuss the performance of the government in being fiscally responsible (which has not have happened in decades) then feel free to open a thread for that. I'll make sure to chime in.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:33 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 37):
DXing, you know very well that I criticize the government for overspending but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand

I think it has a hell of a lot to do with it. How dare these politicians preach to us about being responsible with taxpayer funds when they have been face down in the trough for decades?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 32):
Now there is a bonus "you" cannot spend, but the Boss can.

Exactly. It happens all the time in food service and retail. Management gets all the praise and fabulous prizes. When/if that happens, the manager comes to the grunts and says "good job, let's do better."

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 37):
Moreover, these top executives receiving the bonuses already have large salaries and bank accounts so it's not like they could not defer their bonuses until after the company returns to profitability.

I wonder about Ford. I will go look that up now. But, I wonder, they said they could survive without bail out money and I just wonder if any execs there got any bonuses?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:07 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
I have an idea: Let's try trickle-up economics for a while. It started working well under Clinton. Lower and middle class got tax breaks, had more cash and started spending more on things like food, rent, electric bills and then moved on to things like cell phones, iPods, and computers. It works. Really.

Are you serious??? We got into this by spending too much money and you want to buy more iPods??? Do you seriously think that smoothing out little country-side roads are going to make the U.S. more competitive globally?? You think all this debt you are piling up, which WILL result in higher taxes or inflation in the future, will give companies an incentive to come back to the U.S.??

What makes you even think the Chinese will continue to borrow you funds to buy iPods they make? Eventually they'll stop and keep the iPods for themselves.

And seriously, what GWB did was "trickle-up" economics, not trickle-down. His "stimulus checks" and "deficits don't matter" idea proves that beyond any reasonable doubt. Clinton was a trickle-downer in comparison.

And no, you need to give tax cuts to give incentive for PRODUCERS, not consumers. You've had too much of the latter for decades now, and that includes Clinton. The problem is not free trade, offshoring, it's your consumer and non-producer economy.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 30):
Greed knows no borders

Your greed certainly knows borders. In fact, you think you deserve more than others simply because you are American, which makes you just as greedy.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
StarAC17
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:12 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
And guess who has been the most ardent supporter of the Credit Card companies, and has defended them in every way possible to protect their predatory practices that have put most American families in a financial headlock? So much so that all the major card companies moved to his state?

Senator Joseph Biden.

I agree that this isn't just the fault of the GOP, its both parties that are responsible for this mess from actually accepting campaign contributions from Wall Street.

What I do think is that the Republicans need to step back for now as they had full control of everything from 2001 to 2007 and could have reversed whatever Bill Clinton contributed to in this mess, I do know many of them were pissed at Bush for his very leftist actions during his tenure but he was a GOP politican and that has hurt and discredited them.

Let the democrats try their approach because they have control all the GOP is doing is still preaching supply side and trickle down economics as the only solution, which works in theory but was discredited in this situation people are afraid to both borrow and lend and also because humans are greedy no matter what party affilation and always want more.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:18 pm

Partly in response to the bonus snafu, Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) has proposed legislation that would cap salaries for employees at firms receiving TARP funds at the salary of the President of the United States ($400,000, currently):

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/30/executive.pay/index.html

I think this is a good idea. $400K is still a lot of money, so it's not like anyone's going to starve. Plus, if your company is in a position that it needs bailout money from the Feds, you probably don't deserve a multi-million dollar salary.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:40 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 42):

The Government certainly can place stipulations on what goes on if these companies are going to take their funds, but there's reason to believe there has been come coercion going on and banks were basically forced to take the funds. This would be a problem.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:05 pm



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 41):
What I do think is that the Republicans need to step back for now as they had full control of everything from 2001 to 2007 and could have reversed whatever Bill Clinton contributed to in this mess

On this I agree - the GOP became Democrats-Lite during the Bush Years, and have paid for it with the worst election results in a long time.

But that does not mean they should just lie back and do nothing while the Dems push through the biggest spending program in history, especially when it's 90% pork. The GOP in the House did absolutely the right thing last week - refusing en masse to approve this massive pork bill, so that when it fails to save the economy while adding an extra trillion dollars to the debt, the Dems cannot hide behind a claim that it was a bipartisan bill. If the GOP can find once again the fiscal discipline that is part of their basic philosophy, there is a good possibility that the GOP can win in the 2010 midterms and in 2012.

Which is why Democrats and liberals are desperately attacking conservatives like Limbaugh, telling Republicans "You should not be listening to him!" They realize that a return to fiscal conservatism and limited government can rescue the GOP, and will attempt a great PR campaign, plus the "fairness doctrine", to prevent that from happening.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:38 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
Which is why Democrats and liberals are desperately attacking conservatives like Limbaugh, telling Republicans "You should not be listening to him!" They realize that a return to fiscal conservatism and limited government can rescue the GOP, and will attempt a great PR campaign, plus the "fairness doctrine", to prevent that from happening.

Can't say I disagree with this because I can support a conservative party that practices being fiscally conservative, what I don't like is social conservatism as policy and the fact that the GOP under Bush always painted the democrats as unpatriotic or anti-American which they can't do now.

I wish these republicans would have stood up to Bush the same way that they are standing up to Obama to get Bush to be more fiscally conservative.

This is something the democrats in the house will do to Obama and I wouldn't be surprised if Obama vetoed some things because the democrats in congress really don't care to be bipartisan and Obama is at least showing an effort to be.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
dxing
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:43 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 37):
DXing, you know very well that I criticize the government for overspending but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

The hell it doesn't. As Dreadnought said:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 38):
How dare these politicians preach to us about being responsible with taxpayer funds when they have been face down in the trough for decades?

A statement I agree with 100%. Who is any politician to demand that any corporate leader forgo what he was contractually promised? If they wanted to cap bonuses that should have been written into the TARP law upfront. To come back now and try and change the rules is the same as your auto loan lender coming back after the deal is signed and trying to tell you you can't drive the car on weekends. Just another example of why I want the government taking over health care. sarcastic 

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 42):
Partly in response to the bonus snafu, Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) has proposed legislation that would cap salaries for employees at firms receiving TARP funds at the salary of the President of the United States ($400,000, currently):

Da Commissar!! For how long does it carry? Until the loan has been paid back? Somehow I see this as the first step in the short road to socialism in the United States.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:00 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Da Commissar!! For how long does it carry? Until the loan has been paid back? Somehow I see this as the first step in the short road to socialism in the United States.

Hey, if the businesses don't like the terms of the loan, they can walk away.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:11 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 47):
Hey, if the businesses don't like the terms of the loan, they can walk away.

Actually, no. Wasn't it Wells Fargo that was strong-armed into the arrangement?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama Slams Bankers For $18.4 Billion In Bonuses

Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:51 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Wasn't it Wells Fargo that was strong-armed into the arrangement?

Correct. The terms of the loan did not stipulate that the CEO's couldn't recieve what was due them by their contract. So again our faithful public servants have shown why they aren't in business for themselves.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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