AGM100
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Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:11 pm

Most of you know how I feel about Reid ....

He says that he has the votes to pass the Stimulus Bill as it is .. even without GOP support. He said he will not allow the president to "held hostage "

So .. Will he pass it without GOP support ? Does he have the courage to pass it and take responsibility for it. ??

I say NO WAY. This guy has no courage .. none.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:26 pm

Barack Obama fights to maintain a grip on the US political agenda
President Barack Obama is seeking to reassert control over the American political agenda after a series of embarrassing setbacks.
...
After failing to secure a single Republican vote for the stimulus bill that passed in the House of Representatives, Mr Obama is now struggling to persuade Republicans over the Senate version.

Democratic leaders, who enjoy a 58 to 41 majority in the Senate, have warned him that the $900 billion bill might not pass if it is not stripped of projects that would be unlikely to give a swift boost to the economy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ip-on-the-US-political-agenda.html
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AGM100
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:43 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 1):
President Barack Obama is seeking to reassert control over the American political agenda after a series of embarrassing setbacks.

You know I wish the press would stop using "embarrassing" set backs. This is how our system should work .. the President does not wield total power.. why is it embarrassing when he has to negotiate with the other side?

Any way ... do you think Reid will push it though ?
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NIKV69
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:41 pm

It''s been clear that Pelosi and Reid could probably care less what Obama thinks about this. They have been hell bent on ramming this through and clearly have no desire to work with the GOP. At this point I could care less, Pelosi doesn't give a damn about anybody but herself and I think her future as well as Reid's is not that bright. It's going to be an interesting vote I will be watching. It's not about what is right but the DNC proving they have power.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:25 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
It's not about what is right but the DNC proving they have power.

Very well said. We should all be watching who votes which way.

This is not a stimulus bill. It's a spending bill, pure and simple. Stimulus means putting money into people's pockets so they can spend, save or invest it as they see fit. Pure and simple. The question is: where does the money come from? Do we transfer the money from one pocket to another or do we allow the American people to create the wealth the way they have for well over 200 years?

Do we need a stimulus bill? Maybe. But how about a bill that creates wealth instead of transfers it.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:44 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So .. Will he pass it without GOP support ? Does he have the courage to pass it and take responsibility for it. ??

He can't. It just takes one to filibuster a bill.
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:00 am



Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 4):
Do we transfer the money from one pocket to another or do we allow the American people to create the wealth the way they have for well over 200 years?

You have to remember that Democrats need to create a need for the people to depend on them. Democrats hate free enterprise, hate big business. If you watched Clinton and Obama closely and listened to everything they said you saw that they were againt the CEOS and Big oil because the fact that someone can go out thre and make millions through hard work infuriates them. Was it just rhetoric to get elected? Probably so to a certain extent. Obama won the election with a lot of help from the bums and lazy people who live on welfare and loathe the people that have. With his promise of free health care which would be paid for by heavily taxing the big bad CEOS and big business it sounded great. Trouble was he didn't realize that even the economy didn't tank that big business would never stand for it.

Now he has an even bigger problem. A problem he is not even remotely qualified to handle. Not to mention his main goal now more than anything is to get re-elected in 12'. Now he has to scare everyone to thinking that people are going to start jumping out of windows so that when the economy does correct on it's own he can be the hero and as long as we don't have a terrorist attack he will be in a good position to regain the white house in 4 years. Reality has set in however. The fact that Pelosi and Reid are by the biggest idiots congress has ever seen and they are destroying the DNC every time they get in front of a microphone is not sitting well with Obama because in a way I think he is trying to trim this bill a bit to take out the spending but Pelosi sees that as weakness and to people like her and Reid that just can't happen. Which is why they are going to try to ram this bill down our throats.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:51 am

The major issue that has to be faced in restoring economic prosperity is the issue of confidence. If people don't have confidence, they are not going to invest, and things are not going to get better.

It would send a far stronger message to the business community and the country at large if any stimulus package passed is passed with strong bi-partisan support.
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:59 am

Of course he has the votes...we all know this! The Democrats have 59 seats in the senate!!!
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:07 am



Quoting Victrola (Reply 7):
It would send a far stronger message to the business community and the country at large if any stimulus package passed is passed with strong bi-partisan support.

Then they need to send a package to the floor that the Republicans and America can live with, not this pork filled, pay-off piece of poop.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:47 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
The fact that Pelosi and Reid are by the biggest idiots congress has ever seen and they are destroying the DNC every time they get in front of a microphone is not sitting well with Obama because in a way I think he is trying to trim this bill a bit to take out the spending but Pelosi sees that as weakness and to people like her and Reid that just can't happen. Which is why they are going to try to ram this bill down our throats.

And if they keep it up, they'll end up with the GOP winning back Congress in 2010. Which is fine with me - I think the government works most effectively (though not necessarily most efficiently) when the executive and legislative branches are controlled by different parties. And I'd rather have the GOP controlling the national purse than the Democrats.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:25 am



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So .. Will he pass it without GOP support ? Does he have the courage to pass it and take responsibility for it. ??

He may have to.

Many people believe that the Republicans will do what they did in the House - push for all the changes they can get and then vote against it in a block anyway.

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NIKV69
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:11 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
And if they keep it up, they'll end up with the GOP winning back Congress in 2010. Which is fine with me - I think the government works most effectively (though not necessarily most efficiently) when the executive and legislative branches are controlled by different parties. And I'd rather have the GOP controlling the national purse than the Democrats.

They are well on their way. BTW after Reid claimed he had the votes I think it became clear he didn't. The supposed "burning the midnight oil" went right out the window and they are starting back up tomorrow at 10am EST. Sounds to me Harry doesn't have crap and judging my Lindsey's Graham's demeanor even some on Harry Reid's side think the bill sucks too. Strap youselves in. This will be some ride.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:18 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):
Strap youselves in. This will be some ride.

Hello, gridlock?  Smile

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:03 am

Personally I think it would be better for "confidence" if President Obama came back to the middle and cut the BS out of the bill. The market and business would respond to his leadership on it ... and I think it would be positive. I don't really mind some "liberal" spending .. but the priority must be that they appear to have economic stimulus as the number 1A. Then the President could smack down Reid and Pelosi .. and nurture other sane Dem Allies.

This is a unique opportunist for the President he has a chance to really grow his leadership skill, I hope he does. I want him to be a good leader , but running the rails with Reid and Pelosi will be his un doing.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:20 am

I find it hard to believe that when push comes to shove that the dems won't march in lockstep with the president to give him what he wants. We saw exactly the same thing during the last administration when the republicans controlled congress and marched in lockstep with Bush to give him what he wanted (costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan not to mention pieces of legislation such as the Patriot Act that pretty much stripped away the privacy rights of US citizens by allowing the government to act like Big Brother with little to no oversight from the public...)

The problem i have with the GOP stimulus plan is that it seems to consist of nothing but tax cuts for the rich, tax cuts for big business, tax cuts for the rich again, tax cuts for big business again.....Joe Average won't benefit from those tax cuts directly, because Mr. Gotrocks could invest the money back into the economy in the form of new jobs for Americans or higher wages for employees, or he could use it to buy a villa in the south of france, or a new bugatti, new airplane, new megayacht, which really doesn't help anyone other than the few associated with those niche industries. Unless there's some kind of stipulation that the savings generated by a reduction in corporate/upper income taxes must be reinvested into the economy, the dems are going to tell the republicans to take their plan and go pound sand with it.

The GOP continues to sing the same song, "Bring back the Reagan Years, allow the rich to keep more of their money, allow big business to keep more of their money." if the American public had really been interested in continuing to hear that song, they'd have elected John McCain President and they'd have given him a republican congress to make all his dreams come true.

The GOP is just sore because they're on the recieving end of what they dished out to the dems for so many years when they controlled congress and their guy occupied the white house, how does the song go..."How does it feel, to treat me like you do?"
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:24 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
Then the President could smack down Reid and Pelosi .. and nurture other sane Dem Allies.

Why should he smack them down? You may not like them, but they are the Senate and House leaders, respectively.

If the President goes too far in accommodating Republicans (and some think he already has) he will lose a deal of his base and the bill won't be passed anyway.

So what would that achieve?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
but the priority must be that they appear to have economic stimulus as the number 1A.

I think that is already the priority. But the President is never going to adopt - I hope - a number of the ideas from the right. The bill is already fairly centrist, despite the hoop-la going on.

I think it would be awful for the country if the bill fails, but if that's the way the Senate wants to go, I shrug.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:16 am



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 8):
Of course he has the votes...we all know this! The Democrats have 59 seats in the senate!!!

1) He has 58 seats as of right now. Its likely he will get 59.

2) You need 60 votes to break a filibuster. Unless he can pick up a republican, and ensure no moderate democrats break ranks, the process is not a simple issue of having a majority.
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NIKV69
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:29 pm



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 15):
The problem i have with the GOP stimulus plan is that it seems to consist of nothing but tax cuts for the rich, tax cuts for big business, tax cuts for the rich again, tax cuts for big business again.....Joe Average won't benefit from those tax cuts directly, because Mr. Gotrocks could invest the money back into the economy in the form of new jobs for Americans or higher wages for employees, or he could use it to buy a villa in the south of france, or a new bugatti, new airplane, new megayacht, which really doesn't help anyone other than the few associated with those niche industries. Unless there's some kind of stipulation that the savings generated by a reduction in corporate/upper income taxes must be reinvested into the economy, the dems are going to tell the republicans to take their plan and go pound sand with it.

See it is this narrowminded thinking that leads to huge spending. Do you realize that big business pays a huge percentage of the taxes in this country? Also just because of some CEOs have exhibted bad behavior doesn't mean that all business is using tax cuts to go these things you have mentioned. That is propaganda and really a bunch of BS. The tax cuts keep businesses in this country and helps them hire more and give more to their help.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 15):
The GOP continues to sing the same song, "Bring back the Reagan Years, allow the rich to keep more of their money, allow big business to keep more of their money." if the American public had really been interested in continuing to hear that song, they'd have elected John McCain President and they'd have given him a republican congress to make all his dreams come true.

The American public does want that, but some of them got snowed into thinking they were going to get everything for free. They never stopped to think that if Obama really did try to follow through on his promise to kill big bad business with high taxes and caps to give free healthcare to the little guy etc that the businesses would just leave the country to go elsewhere where it would be much cheaper to operate and all those jobs would be lost. Obama knows full well his plan can't possibly work which is why he did a complete 180 right after he got elected. If you are going to continue with the Obama won, McCain lost nah nah nah routine go right ahead but capitalism is what made this country great and it will not be forgone for the sake of people that loathe people with means as a way to explain the people who don't have.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:34 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
If the President goes too far in accommodating Republicans (and some think he already has) he will lose a deal of his base and the bill won't be passed anyway.

So what would that achieve?

A leaner, meaner bill that restores some degree of confidence on Wall Street and elsewhere, effective compromise and all kinds of political capital for him to spend on a number of difficult fronts that still lay before him - namely confirmation of his pick for CIA chief and the upcoming fight over what to do with the guys at Gitmo.

Who gives a flying F what the base thinks if the base is represented by the likes of Pelosi and Reid? That's entirely the problem with the Democrat leaders right there - their abject refusal to yield, much less admit their end of the culpability in the very crisis they purport to be attempting to solve.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:43 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 17):
2) You need 60 votes to break a filibuster. Unless he can pick up a republican, and ensure no moderate democrats break ranks, the process is not a simple issue of having a majority.

Very little chance the Republicans will filibuster. That is a sure way to get public support against them. Their best bet is to get what they can into the bill, and get out of the way of it passing. Then if it fails miserably they can say we didn't want this while if it succeeds they can point to the few things they got through, all the while they don't look like obstructionists keeping the economy from potentially starting to rebound (whether it will or not is another story, but public perception is rarely rooted in reality). I personally lean way to the left, and feel the Democrats have painted themselves into a corner on this one.
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
Who gives a flying F what the base thinks if the base is represented by the likes of Pelosi and Reid?

Um - the democracy. The electorate who voted for them. The House and Senate members who voted for them.  confused 

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:06 pm



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 15):
The problem i have with the GOP stimulus plan is that it seems to consist of nothing but tax cuts for the rich, tax cuts for big business, tax cuts for the rich again, tax cuts for big business again.....

Who creates jobs in this country? Who pays the bulk of the taxes in this country? Who best to inject money into the economy? The answer is the people with the money.

Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 20):
Very little chance the Republicans will filibuster. That is a sure way to get public support against them. Their best bet is to get what they can into the bill, and get out of the way of it passing.

I disagree. As more and more details of this useless piece of legislation gets out, the more people will insist that it be killed.
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MOBflyer
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:27 pm



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 8):
Of course he has the votes...we all know this! The Democrats have 59 seats in the senate!!!



Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
He may have to.

It only takes ONE to kill the bill.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Hello, gridlock?

Thats the way the framers of the consitution planned it.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
I think it would be better for "confidence" if President Obama came back to the middle and cut the BS out of the bill.

You do know that Obama can't actually change anything himself. He can just give it a thumbs up/down when it gets to his desk. He can suggest....

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 17):
2) You need 60 votes to break a filibuster. Unless he can pick up a republican, and ensure no moderate democrats break ranks, the process is not a simple issue of having a majority.

Exactly.

Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 20):
Very little chance the Republicans will filibuster. That is a sure way to get public support against them

What makes you think that? The Democrats are giving absolutely terriffic material to the Republican ad makers. I hope they keep up! This bill, in its current form, has largely lost its support.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
The electorate who voted for them.

The electorate of their districts elected Pelosi and Reid. The electorate of the country did not elect them to thier current posts for which they are woefully inadequate at. And, we don't have to support them and their liberal agenda, just as we don't have to support that of the President's. Most of us wish them well and pray that they see the error and ramifications of their plans, but we don't have to support what they plan to do.
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:36 pm



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 23):
Thats the way the framers of the consitution planned it.

Yes. I don't have a problem with it. I'm not a big fan of bipartisan.  confused 

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 23):
The electorate of their districts elected Pelosi and Reid.

Yes. And the (party) members of the Senate and the House voted them to their present positions.

Is that not democracy? Is that not how it usually works?

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 23):
And, we don't have to support them and their liberal agenda, just as we don't have to support that of the President's. Most of us wish them well and pray that they see the error and ramifications of their plans, but we don't have to support what they plan to do.

That ol' democracy again. The controlling majority of the electorate voted for the President and majorities in both houses.

Unless you are advocating armed insurrection, I am not sure what your point is.  confused 

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:26 pm



Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 20):
That is a sure way to get public support against them

Not really now since the unbelievable pork has been let out of the bag. The majority of the public think the bill sucks so the GOP has to get the pork out. The Dems loves to scare the public with terms like "game changer" and "shovel ready" and "the time is now" but the public is beginning to see through it. The bill is a total mess and needs an overhaul and the public knows this. The sky is not falling as bad as Obama wants you to believe, funny how the DOW is plus 200 even with the bad job report. Don't buy into the smoke screen that Obama is trying to feed you. The GOP wants to do the right thing and they are doing it.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 22):
Who creates jobs in this country? Who pays the bulk of the taxes in this country? Who best to inject money into the economy? The answer is the people with the money

The Dems are also furious that the GOP has better ideas like a tax holiday and major tax cuts that would probably do the same thing but wouldn't allow the Dems to slip in all the pork like a mafia museum in Vegas, wtf?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 22):
I disagree. As more and more details of this useless piece of legislation gets out, the more people will insist that it be killed

What is funny is no filabuster is even needed I don't think the Dems have enough of their own party on board.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 23):

You do know that Obama can't actually change anything himself. He can just give it a thumbs up/down when it gets to his desk. He can suggest....

Obama is getting into a very tough position, I saw it in his face when he gave that speech yesterday. You can see the fear in his face, some of his own party do not want the bill and the public is turning on it rather quickly. It's sure not going like he thought when he got elected and he has no idea what to do. Lindsey Graham was spot on yesterday. He is not leading. I don't think he has any idea what to do when things don't turn out like the perfect script MSNBC has written. This goes back to the fact that Obama has absolutely no experience with legislation or executive stuff. He thought that everyone would just fawn all over him and his bill and only the big bad GOP would oppose it and since he won the election and Pelosi was speaker of the house it would just sail through. Well now the public, GOP and a good number of his own party think his bill sucks and he has no idea what to do. Except of course spew out the CNN rhetoric of the GOP being obstructionists. Wonder what that makes any DNC member who opposes it?  sarcastic 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:26 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
The sky is not falling as bad as Obama wants you to believe, funny how the DOW is plus 200 even with the bad job report.

The DOW was up on the hope that the stimulus bill would be passed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090206/bs_nm/us_markets_stocks_63

"Stocks rallied on Friday on bets that grim jobs data will spur Washington to deliver a stimulus plan seen as key to bolstering a struggling economy."

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...8E%2D47A0%2D9677%2D22126CDCB1FC%7D

"However, hopes for quick congressional passage on an economic-stimulus plan helped propel equities higher Friday, with an ugly January unemployment report proving less dire than many feared."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=arv5JhIikd4U&refer=home

"U.S. stocks gained for a second day on speculation a government report showing the highest unemployment rate since 1992 will force Congress to pass an economic stimulus package."

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:31 pm

[

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
The DOW was up on the hope that the stimulus bill would be passed:

If that is true ... I should sell my entire portfolio and bail the heck out. Personally I think it rose because many think the bill wont pass as it is . I guess its just a matter of looking up or looking down.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:40 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 27):
Personally I think it rose because many think the bill wont pass as it is . I guess its just a matter of looking up or looking down.

How many more quotes - across the spectrum - would you like suggesting the reverse?

Then again, if the stimulus bill does go down, which is always possible, what does that achieve?

The economy will continue to crater, unemployment will continue to go up. There'll be another stimulus bill, later, and it will probably have to be for more money.

And it will still be a Democratic bill and the Republicans still won't like it. So nothing will be achieved.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:11 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
would you like suggesting the reverse?

I said it was my personal view ... not based on we will call .. media "reality" OK then ?

The Republicans want a stimulus bill, not the 500 billion added in normal spending appropriations that should be in future bills , and debated at that time. Pelosi knows that most of this stuff would never see the light of day in a normal house bill... but it fits nicely in between page 900 and 70000 of this bill.

The Dems are trying to circumvent having to request spending appropriations in future bills by just slamming them into this fear driven fiasco.

Cant you understand that ? I mean don't you see it ?
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:25 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 24):
Is that not democracy? Is that not how it usually works?

Yes, but you implied that the electorate had a say in the choosing of the dynamic duo that is destined to run this country and its economy further into the ground - which is wrong.
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:38 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
Cant you understand that ? I mean don't you see it ?

I'm just dealing with the political reality.

Nor do I see what Ms. Pelosi has to do with this - the House bill passed. I've no idea what will eventually pass - or if anything will pass - in the senate.

But I surely don't want a popularly elected government held hostage to ideas that the controlling majority of the electorate rejected - whatever those ideas may be.

And since you say:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
I said it was my personal view

I'll express a personal view. I was personally deeply offended by some things that Senator ("our economy is strong") McCain said today.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:47 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
The DOW was up on the hope that the stimulus bill would be passed:

Completely false, the DOW is up because there will be a positive announcement on Monday about the second 350 Billion from the first time around. The market's response has nothing to do with the mess in the senate right now with the second bailout package.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 27):
If that is true ... I should sell my entire portfolio and bail the heck out. Personally I think it rose because many think the bill wont pass as it is . I guess its just a matter of looking up or looking down

It isn't. I would rather trust CNBC for my business data than yahoo or Bloomberg.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
And it will still be a Democratic bill and the Republicans still won't like it. So nothing will be achieved.

Why do you keep ignoring the Dems who oppose it?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 31):
I'll express a personal view. I was personally deeply offended by some things that Senator ("our economy is strong") McCain said today.

Did you get offended when Barney Frank said Fannie Mae and the rest were strong?
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:56 pm



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 30):
Yes, but you implied that the electorate had a say in the choosing of the dynamic duo that is destined to run this country and its economy further into the ground - which is wrong.

When the electorate voted for the House and the Senate, they surely knew who they were getting.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
Completely false, the DOW is up because there will be a positive announcement on Monday about the second 350 Billion from the first time around. The market's response has nothing to do with the mess in the senate right now with the second bailout package.

Many, many commentators disagree with you. Look 'em up, they're easy to find.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
Why do you keep ignoring the Dems who oppose it?

When have I ignored them? I've said it may not pass.  confused 

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
Did you get offended when Barney Frank said Fannie Mae and the rest were strong?

Somewhat, yes. But when did two wrongs make a right?

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:00 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 31):
("our economy is strong") McCain said today.

Our economy is the strongest in the world ... by far. Is it crapping out a bit ? ... yes.. but it is what it is. The socialist want to install a Toyota Prius drive train onto our Ferrari 430 , when all it needs is a fuel injection clean out. That is what Sen McCain is saying ... And I agree.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:03 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
When the electorate voted for the House and the Senate, they surely knew who they were getting.

How on earth did I know that by voting for Jo Bonner / Richard Shelby / Jeff Sessions (all Republicans from Alabama) that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid would be running the most important branch of our government???
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:07 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 34):
The socialist want to install a Toyota Prius drive train onto our Ferrari 430

I'm not a "socialist" but I am left of center on social matters - and I certainly don't want that.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 34):
That is what Sen McCain is saying ... And I agree.

That isn't what I heard but that isn't the part that offended me, it was much more personal than that.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:55 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
Many, many commentators disagree with you. Look 'em up, they're easy to find.

I did and most seem to think Monday's restructure by Geithner of the first 700 Billion that will get the banks doing what they were supposed to do the first time and lend is why the market shrugged off the job report. Why would a bill that is not even passed that the majoirty of America think stinks cause the market to rally like that? Especially when most of the bill is needless pork and is getting worse and worse?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
When have I ignored them? I've said it may not pass.

No you called out the GOP for opposing it and totally gave any member of the DNC who opposes it a pass.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:17 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 36):
I'm not a "socialist" but I am left of center on social matters

Mariner , didn't mean to imply that you were a socialist .. And being left on social issues is different than being left on fiscal. Our free-market system has downsides .. but it also has upsides that are tremendous. A flat line federally manipulated system , may not have down sides ..but it does not have upsides either. Profits are made on upsides , that is what makes our system the best.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:17 pm



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 35):
How on earth did I know that by voting for Jo Bonner / Richard Shelby / Jeff Sessions (all Republicans from Alabama) that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid would be running the most important branch of our government???

You didn't vote for them.

But, presumably, you knew who the leaders of the House and Senate would be if the Democrats won majorities.

Presumably, you didn't vote for President Obama. But you knew who would be President if he won.  confused 

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
Why would a bill that is not even passed that the majoirty of America think stinks cause the market to rally like that?

Because they thought it was likely to pass. I've posted three links saying that. There are more.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
No you called out the GOP for opposing it and totally gave any member of the DNC who opposes it a pass.

i don't mention either party here:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
Then again, if the stimulus bill does go down, which is always possible, what does that achieve?

But I note you have not answered that question.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:44 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
i don't mention either party here:

Huh?

What is this then?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
And it will still be a Democratic bill and the Republicans still won't like it. So nothing will be achieved.

You should read what you actually write here.

Not only did you mention both parties but you clearly tried to make it look like it was a bill down party lines in the senate which it clearly isn't. In fact Feinstein was opposed to it as well as other Democrats still you called out the the GOP as being opposed to it uniformally (not true) and gave any Dem not for it a pass. Have you ignored the fact that as of the last week the support for this bill as written was basically falling apart?
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:53 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 40):
What is this then?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
And it will still be a Democratic bill and the Republicans still won't like it. So nothing will be achieved.

A simple statement of fact. It will still be a Democratic bill, and Republicans still won't like it (or else they're telling fibs now). Some Democrats may not like it as well, but it will still be a Democratic bill.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
And being left on social issues is different than being left on fiscal. Our free-market system has downsides

On fiscal matters - monetary issues - I'm probably much further to the right than many here. I would not have bailed out the banks or the automakers, or anyone, I'd have let 'em all go to the wall.

I don't even approve of Chapter 11. I do like Ferrari's (although my favorite is a 1956 T'Bird).  Smile

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:55 pm



Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
You didn't vote for them.

Aren't I part of the electorate?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
But, presumably, you knew who the leaders of the House and Senate would be if the Democrats won majorities.

Really? I knew who the democrats would select to be their bang-up job of a figurehead? If I could do that, I could fix a lot of problems - cause that means I'd have superhuman powers!
 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:02 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 42):
Aren't I part of the electorate?

Of course. But the controlling majority of the electorate went for the package.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 42):
I knew who the democrats would select to be their bang-up job of a figurehead?

Presumably. I knew. In November 2006, Nancy Pelosi was unanimously elected Speaker of the House.

I surely did not expect the Democrats were going to dump her if they held or increased their House majority in 2008.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:06 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 43):
Presumably. I knew. In November 2006, Nancy Pelosi was unanimously elected Speaker of the House.

I surely did not expect the Democrats were going to dump her if they held or increased their House majority in 2008.

But it happens. Your point is understood, but to say that "I should have known" or similar garbage implies that I should be just fine and dandy because I had the opportunity to change the outcome and chose not to. If that were the case, I'd see your point, but since its not, I say::

Quoting Mariner (Reply 24):
I am not sure what your point is.

 
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:09 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
The majority of the public think the bill sucks so the GOP has to get the pork out.

Really now?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114184/Pu...rt-Stimulus-Package-Unchanged.aspx

Quote:
PRINCETON, NJ -- Fifty-two percent of Americans interviewed Wednesday night are in favor of Congress passing a roughly $800 billion economic stimulus package; 38% are opposed. These figures are nearly identical to those measured in Gallup polling last week, right before passage of the bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, and are also in line with public support in early January.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:13 am



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 44):
Your point is understood, but to say that "I should have known" or similar garbage implies that I should be just fine and dandy because I had the opportunity to change the outcome and chose not to.

You didn't have the opportunity to change that particular outcome. But "the electorate" did.

If "the electorate" (the controlling majority) felt as strongly you do about Ms. Pelosi, they could have denied the Democrats a majority in the House, while still electing a Democratic president.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:37 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 41):
A simple statement of fact. It will still be a Democratic bill, and Republicans still won't like it (or else they're telling fibs now). Some Democrats may not like it as well, but it will still be a Democratic bill

You haven't been paying attention then. Before they got together and went over a ton of ammendments this bill was dying. So it really wasn't a Democratic bill. In fact Feinstein sure looked pissed. The Republicans are not fibbing if anything it was Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and a few others who tried to ram this down our throats. Which is why they have been scrambling like mad to get something done which I think shows that the Senate did a good job at working together.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 45):
Really now

Yep

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-...t-support-obama-stimulus-plan.html


Fact is the support for this disaster fell apart by the minute which is why the Senate has been going balls to the wall and have even dragged Good ol Ted Kennedy out of his bed because they are not sure they have the votes. The original bill as written was dead in the water. The American people polled said they didn't want it unless it was overhauled. If your data was correct it would have went to a vote and most likely would have been voted down.
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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:49 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 47):
You haven't been paying attention then. Before they got together and went over a ton of ammendments this bill was dying.

The bill as originally presented was written by Democrats. If it doesn't pass and a new bill is presented, it will be written by Democrats.

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RE: Harry Reid "I Have The Votes" For "stimulus"

Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:49 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 47):
Fact is the support for this disaster fell apart by the minute

Check the dates on the polls. Yours was from January 30 to February 1. Mine was from February 5. Also, yours gave responders a choice between "support" and "support with major changes," each of which drew about 37-38 percent. So actually, your poll demonstrates that 75 percent of Americans support the stimulus, in some form. The poll I cited asks for a straight up or down choice on the current plan, which still drew a majority of support. Some of those "support with major changes" people probably decided that any stimulus was better than no stimulus at all.
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