Beaucaire
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Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:11 pm

This tuesday is election time in Israel.
So let's put all relevant opinions and news related to this event into this thread.

First major anouncement from Bibi..as expected some tough stuff .

"..I will not return the Golan to Syria ..!"
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/08/news/ML-Israel-Politics.php
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connies4ever
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:16 pm

Let's not count out Yisrael Beteinu, led by Avigdor Leiberman. His support has been rising in recent weeks amongst non-Russian Israelis. His party may take enough support away from Bibi that Livni and Kadima get a narrow victory.

Mind you, in Israel any victory is only PR until you put a coalition together, since no party ever wins a majority.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:31 pm

That's the worrysome news that Avigdor Liberman can impose his ideas and programm to the "winner" and hence determines the future politic to an extent that does not reflect the percentage of his votes..
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:54 pm

Benjamin Netanyahu (spelling) is a hard liner. I hope he will not become Israel's nex Prime Minister.
I don't want to see Israel attacking Iran. Not now, not any time.
I would rather see somebody more moderate than him taking the job. I hope for no "Bibi".

No war.  no 
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Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:04 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
I would rather see somebody more moderate than him taking the job

None of the current Israeli leaders could be called "moderate"-not even Kadima's Zipi...
They had more than one year to negotiate a deal with Syria-nothing really moved.
They had all the time to tackle the issue of illegal colonies-nothing happend.
They had all the time in the world to treat Palestinians as human beings-nothing really happend..
They had all the time to tackle corruption in Israeli politics-nothing really happened..
And now we have a criminal Jew from Russia who emerges as Israel's kingmaker..
Izaak Rabin was a respected politician by everybody- since his assasination there is a huge vaccuum in Israeli politics !
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:19 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
None of the current Israeli leaders could be called "moderate"-not even Kadima's Zipi...

Let's say Tzipi Livni is the least Hard Liner among them.
I only hope no "Bibi" and there seems to be only two choices.  Wow!
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:41 am

Looks like Kadima's 'last throw' is going to be getting Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier being held as a prisoner in Gaza, released. Snag is, as well as opening the borders and concluding a truce, the deal would likely involve freeing a large number of Hamas high-ups held in Israeli jails.

That would clearly be a 'big win' for Hamas and would in all probability force elections in both the West Bank and Gaza, leading almost inevitably to a Hamas victory.

One thing about the ME - whatever else, the political gyrations are never boring.  Smile

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1062612.html
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jcs17
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:59 am



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 1):
Let's not count out Yisrael Beteinu, led by Avigdor Leiberman. His support has been rising in recent weeks amongst non-Russian Israelis. His party may take enough support away from Bibi that Livni and Kadima get a narrow victory.

Mind you, in Israel any victory is only PR until you put a coalition together, since no party ever wins a majority.

Doubtful at best, IMO. You can bet as well that Yisrael Beteinu will form a coalition (along with the right-Orthodox parties) with Likud, for a very strong presence in the Knesset.

One of the reasons why the latest Gaza conflict was so bloody is because the Kadima-led government refused to take a hard stand against Hamas on day one of the rocket launches. Bibi is the best chance for the long term survival of Israel, now that Obama is in the White House (and will not act in the best interests of Israel). Bibi will do his best to destroy Iran's nuclear program which is a clear threat to the Jewish state. It's a shame it has gotten so far though, and I'm afraid a simple bombing will probably not wipe it out.

Israel has got to end the two-state farce. Jordan and Egypt taking over Palestine is far better option than letting the Palestinians maintain a country.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:19 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=VzEoYYdk1hU

worthwile to be watched..gives at least some rock-solid figures about the mess we are in concerning the region..quantifying a conflict-situation .
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:37 am

Thanks, Beaucaire, most interesting. Makes you wonder how much longer the rest of us can AFFORD Israel.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
baroque
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:31 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=VzEoYYdk1hU

worthwhile to be watched..gives at least some rock-solid figures about the mess we are in concerning the region..quantifying a conflict-situation .

Hmmm. Interesting source too.

I suppose if an extremist government is elected in Israel there would now be a precedent for no recognition followed by no talkies would there not?  Yeah sure  expressionless 
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:45 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 10):
suppose if an extremist government is elected in Israel there would now be a precedent for no recognition followed by no talkies would there not?

I'm sure that several US university research departments are on the verge of breeding flying pigs, too, Baroque. All they need is three or four more years of tax-deductible donations......  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:49 pm

It all depends if our former nightlub-keeper from Moldavia Liebermann plays his ego through right to the escalation level...
Let's face it-all newly elected governments in Israel will by definition be coalitions between reason ,torah-rolls ,illegal settlements and justified security concerns.While Netanyahu still seems the (short) frontrunner,Kadima has been catching up within the lest week-at least that's what the polls are telling us.
But any winner will have to delute his political ideas to accomodate the man from Moldavia.
And even a new Obama administration has no handle on blockheads like him-other than cutting the military supplies-which seems unlikely..
There's this saying that only hardliner governments can achieve peace - which is absolute BS,since this attitude only re-enforces the new,predominantly Russian-origine hardline influence among Israeli politicians.The peace-concidering left in Israel has vanished and has been replaced by a new immigrant attitude that is increasingly anti-Arab.
Nothing will change if not for the worse..
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
And even a new Obama administration has no handle on blockheads like him-other than cutting the military supplies-which seems unlikely..

It would have plenty of levers, actually - all it would take would be for the USA to stop guaranteeing Israel's ever-mounting foreign debt, and even Lieberman would have to fall in line. Once somebody taught him some simple arithmetic.

Not saying that it's going to happen.

Just hoping.......  Smile
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:27 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):
I'm sure that several US university research departments are on the verge of breeding flying pigs, too, Baroque. All they need is three or four more years of tax-deductible donations...

I take your point, although flying pigs would be nice. However you might think that there would be limits to what any government could inflict on those present within its borders (being careful to include those AL would exclude).

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 13):
It would have plenty of levers, actually - all it would take would be for the USA to stop guaranteeing Israel's ever-mounting foreign debt, and even Lieberman would have to fall in line.

Might be true, or it might be the basis for another pig flying project. If he got past the first criterion and retained recognition, the next step might be easier? No???
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:37 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
If he got past the first criterion and retained recognition, the next step might be easier? No???

Lieberman won't make it to PM this time around, Baroque. The most he can hope for is third place, supplanting Labour - making him a 'prominent minister' in a government headed by Netanyahu or Livni.

Besides, Obama/Mitchell won't go for him 'bald-headed.' They'll need time to build a case - several months, even a year, of the Israeli government refusing to make any concessions at all, so that the US public (including, I would expect, a majority of American Jews) reaches the point of utter exasperation.

But once that point is reached, they can get out the tomahawks.........

[Edited 2009-02-09 06:43:39]
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:50 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
Lieberman won't make it to PM this time around, Baroque. The most he can hope for is third place, supplanting Labour - making him a 'prominent minister' in a government headed by Netanyahu or Livni.

But he might end up second fiddle on the first desk. Or even first fiddle depending on who you think will do the conducting. The Peres interview with Negus on SBS was not encouraging at all at all.

I agree, any action would take time, but it might end up like waiting for Godot.
 
rootsair
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:17 am

Its pretty ironic that here in Europe the far right winged is often associated with anti semitic and now in Israel, many people are voting far right !!!
If I had to chose the next prime minister it would be a left winged but amongst those who really have a chance I'd go for Tzipi Livni

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MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:40 am

Seems that in this election, all will depend on those who were said to be "undecided" right before going to the polls. There seem to be a good percentage of them so from there anything can happen.
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NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:23 pm

As I understand it there will in any case be no 'result' for some time.

Due to the system of proportional representation, with any party securing even 2% of the vote being entitled to one MP, there is no possibility of any one party securing an overall majority in the Knesset on the basis of today's vote. The 'party leader' who eventually becomes prime minister will be the one who can form a coalition giving him or her a majority of seats.

This would normally (though not necessarily) be the party that secures the biggest bloc of seats in the first place. But there is every possibility this time that neither of the two biggest parties (Kadima and Likud) will be able to secure a big enough bloc just by forming a coalition with like-minded parties; and that they will therefore have to admit parties that have VERY different views to their own to their proposed coalition.

Given that Lieberman's extreme rightwing party seems likely to have the third largest bloc after the two biggest parties, it is entirely possible that both Kadima AND Likud will wind up making offers and counter-offers to him. And to the likely fourth-place party, Labour.

The final decision as to which party forms a government is made by the President. He is allowed up to 42 days to decide. This time there appears to be every chance that the process of choosing between Livni and Netanyahu (the likely front-runners) will take all of about 41 days and 23 hours.  Smile

Anyone knowing the Israeli system better than I do, please correct me if I've got any of that wrong.
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NIKV69
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:34 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
Benjamin Netanyahu (spelling) is a hard liner. I hope he will not become Israel's nex Prime Minister

Why better to just sit back? I hope he wins and just minutes ago he went on record saying if he wins he will not be pressured by the US into talks and making peace with Palestine. Glad someone is taking the bill by the horns and not placating these extemists into thinking a nice sit down with Obama is the answer to all the worlds ills. It''s real easy stop the violence. You can't negotiate with terrorists.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:04 pm

22:00 Kadima leading in exit polls with 30 seats; Likud 28 (Channel 10)

http://www.haaretz.com/


Last update - 22:13 10/02/2009
Exit polls: Livni's Kadima leads in 2009 elections
By Haaretz Service
Tags: Israel elections, Israel news

Exit polls by Israel's three main television stations on Tuesday night showed Kadima as the leader in the 2009 general elections, with Likud coming a narrow second.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063105.html

[Edited 2009-02-10 12:16:27]
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avi
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:08 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Seems that in this election, all will depend on those who were said to be "undecided" right before going to the polls. There seem to be a good percentage of them so from there anything can happen.

You have no idea how right you are  Smile
You were before the publication of the exit polls, and you still are after that.
Anything can happen.

Kadima may be the biggest party but, according to the exit polls, the right wing is bigger.
We won't have new government in the next few weeks.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:28 pm



Quoting Avi (Reply 22):
Kadima may be the biggest party but, according to the exit polls, the right wing is bigger.
We won't have new government in the next few weeks.

Seems about right - the negotiations will be more than difficult and I don't see a moderate-left coalition leading a 61 seat majority for Knesset.
Seems we will have to get used to the idea that Bibi will become PM...
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Beaucaire
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:43 pm

...the self-declared prime ministers have already spoken- Bibi of course said he would be the next chosen one-and ten minutes later it was Zipi's tour to proclaim her victory.
We should await Mr. Lieberman's statement..

[Edited 2009-02-10 13:52:51]
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:00 am

Now we will wait ages for any peace talks to start,if they will ever start.
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connies4ever
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:30 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Why better to just sit back? I hope he wins and just minutes ago he went on record saying if he wins he will not be pressured by the US into talks and making peace with Palestine. Glad someone is taking the bill by the horns and not placating these extemists into thinking a nice sit down with Obama is the answer to all the worlds ills. It''s real easy stop the violence. You can't negotiate with terrorists

Please then explain why after the UK government negotiated (over a long time, mind you) with the IRA, the violence stopped.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:56 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
It''s real easy stop the violence. You can't negotiate with terrorists.

So negotiate with the moderates.The question here does Israel wants a real peace or she will always go to war to achieve nothing?
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NIKV69
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:08 am



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 26):
Please then explain why after the UK government negotiated (over a long time, mind you) with the IRA, the violence stopped.

Hmmm, not sure I want to compare the IRA to radical Islam. Two totally different animals.
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rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:11 am



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
None of the current Israeli leaders could be called "moderate"-not even Kadima's Zipi...

Oh come on, sir. If Livni, the apparant winner, is not a moderate, I don't know who is.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
And even a new Obama administration has no handle on blockheads like him-other than cutting the military supplies-which seems unlikely..

Congress determines funding for military aid. Obama would have a difficult if not impossible task if he tried to cut military aid to Israel.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
There's this saying that only hardliner governments can achieve peace - which is absolute BS,since this attitude only re-enforces the new,predominantly Russian-origine hardline influence among Israeli politicians.

Well let's see. Hardline government of Begin made peace with Egypt; hardline government of Sharon pulled settlers out of Gaza. I'd say it's pretty clear that it takes politicians with security credentials to implement risky endeavors.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
The peace-concidering left in Israel has vanished and has been replaced by a new immigrant attitude that is increasingly anti-Arab.

The peacenik Left has disappeared for a reason though! Their arguments have simply run out. Since the Gaza pullout and rise of Hamas, they can no longer claim that settlements are the root cause of Israeli-Palestinian tension. Even left-wing peaceniks have to deal with the reality on the ground in the Palestinian territories.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 17):
Its pretty ironic that here in Europe the far right winged is often associated with anti semitic and now in Israel, many people are voting far right !!!

Any extremes tend to be anti-semitic. But these days it seems clear that Jews have more to fear from the extreme Left than the extreme Right.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
Now we will wait ages for any peace talks to start,if they will ever start.

Again, come on please. Peace talks have been going on for DECADES. There was a huge peace conference in Annapolis in 2007, just for a recent example. It's a joke, of course, which is why there isn't peace.
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WunalaYann
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:34 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 7):
now that Obama is in the White House (and will not act in the best interests of Israel)

And why should he? Why should the US act in the best interest of Israel, or any other nation, for that matter?

Additionally, can you define exactly what "the best interests of Israel" are? According to whom? To pursue what goal(s)?

The problem (mind you, probably a good thing, actually) with blanket statements like the one you threw is that they open all sorts of very interesting and vital questions that need serious consideration and intelligent answers.

 Smile

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 13):
It would have plenty of levers, actually - all it would take would be for the USA to stop guaranteeing Israel's ever-mounting foreign debt, and even Lieberman would have to fall in line. Once somebody taught him some simple arithmetic.

You must admit that the notion of the US guaranteeing someone else's debt is quite funny, seeing what the US has done with its own debt recently...  Wink

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):
Hmmm, not sure I want to compare the IRA to radical Islam. Two totally different animals.

Maybe. Please explain how they would be different and then we can discuss. Short of that, your argument about not negotiating with terrorists is completely invalidated.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
But he might end up second fiddle on the first desk. Or even first fiddle depending on who you think will do the conducting. The Peres interview with Negus on SBS was not encouraging at all

Perhaps the key will be the June elections in Iran and the likely frustration of the Iranian people with its pathetic current leadership. If Ahmadinejad is ousted, there is a chance that both Hamas and Hezbollah will have to make do with much less support.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 29):
hardline government of Sharon pulled settlers out of Gaza.

And what a success that was. Unilateral pull out from one part of the territories. So much for cooperation.
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:47 am

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 30):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):
Hmmm, not sure I want to compare the IRA to radical Islam. Two totally different animals.

Maybe. Please explain how they would be different and then we can discuss. Short of that, your argument about not negotiating with terrorists is completely invalidated.

Spot on, WunalaYann. NIKV69, The IRA (strictly speaking, the Provisional IRA) were entirely concerned with a 'religious war.' The only difference was that they were 'radical Christians' rather than 'radical Islamists).

They murdered people who didn't agree with them, loosed off bombs in public places with total disregard for civilian casualties, ambushed and killed soldiers and police - their leaders even lived comfortably overseas and spent most of their time gathering political and financial support and ensuring copious supplies of weapons, explosives, and ammunition from 'sympathetic' countries.

The only difference between the Provos and Al Queda was that most of the former's financial, political, and material support emanated from the United States. Remember all those US-made M60 machine-guns they managed to get hold of.........?

Long - but not exhaustive - list of notable PIRA atrocities here:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...july/20/newsid_2515000/2515343.stm

[Edited 2009-02-10 19:06:06]
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WunalaYann
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:42 am

And the timing could not have been better for appeased talks.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 31):
Long - but not exhaustive - list of notable PIRA atrocities here:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...3.stm

I.e. a terrorist organisation of the first order.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:35 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 30):
Maybe. Please explain how they would be different and then we can discuss. Short of that, your argument about not negotiating with terrorists is completely invalidated.

Huh? What are you talking about? Has it worked in the last 40 years? Did it work at Munich in 72'? Give me a break, these radicals don't understand talk, they understand one thing. They get what they want or they kill people. You are going to sit there and tell me that you can compare, AQ and the rest to the IRA? Seriously, not even close. You go and research how the IRA operated and then go look into how AQ planned, funded and carried out 9/11. I tihnk you will see a huge difference. In mindset, patience, money and how things were carried out. It is you sir that has no argument suffice to say that just because the UK did something to stop Ireland from bombing can be akin to stopping the entire middle east from wanting every jew dead and gone from that land.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 31):
Spot on, WunalaYann. NIKV69, The IRA (strictly speaking, the Provisional IRA) were entirely concerned with a 'religious war.' The only difference was that they were 'radical Christians' rather than 'radical Islamists).

Yea ok and was much more loosely organized and much underfunded when compared to AQ and the rest. Again this comparison is laughable at best.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 32):
And the timing could not have been better for appeased talks.

Yea with Iran having an election coming and N Korea mis behaving again the timing is becoming very critical. I just hope our president is up to the challenge.
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WunalaYann
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):

Your senseless and pointless rant aside, we are still waiting for your sources.
 
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mariner
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:04 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 7):
Israel has got to end the two-state farce. Jordan and Egypt taking over Palestine is far better option than letting the Palestinians maintain a country.

There is no "Palestine" to take over.

If you take everything from a people and leave them without any hope - without even a nationality - I don't see how that is fair or just, or any kind of path to peace. I think that is the breeding ground of war, as we saw in Jordan in Black September 1970.

And why would Jordan want the West Bank again?

mariner
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:48 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Glad someone is taking the bill by the horns

Well sometime wisdom cometh from misprints. If Obama does move, it will be by sending the bill back to those who should pay it instead of the US taxpayer. This must be one of the few times when there is less "bull" in a post than intended.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
AQ and the rest to the IRA? Seriously, not even close. You go and research how the IRA operated and then go look into how AQ planned, funded and carried out 9/11. I tihnk you will see a huge difference.

Perhaps another bit of unintentional wisdom. It may well be that AlQ (basically it seems a very cheap organization to run) is not even close to IRA funding. Over decades it had funding from the US that everyone seems too embarrassed to track down. Perhaps some from Aus too for all we knew, all too busy celebrating St Patricks day to worry about things like that. However, most came from the US. After Clinton (he was the one who did so little about terrorism, you must remember him!) and Mitchell the US was more difficult as a source of funding, and they turned more to organized crime and counterfeiting but in 2004 they are known to have pulled off two bank robberies, one for about USD50 million. Who knows what else they did.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...esult&resnum=10&ct=result#PPA28,M1

That bank robbery was one activity in one year. Yes AlQ and IRA (no not individual retirement arrangement) may well be different in their funding. But maybe not the way you think.

Of course it was not until the US was attacked that formal measures against funding of terrorists were put into law by Bush. Until that, a bit of a wink and a nod so that the IRA, ETA and the Tamil Tigers must be really pissed off with AlQ having queered their pitches!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1563119.stm

And do not forget the Colombian adventures of the IRA.

Mind you, I am not 100% certain of the relationship between Al Q funding source and the Israeli elections that seems to be absorbing some posts here - unless someone is assuming a similarity between Al Q funding and that from diasporas for the Israeli state????

And some of that does seem to be of questionable legality.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/...ys-taxing-times-20080717-3gzy.html
He is being investigated along with wealthy Americans over $US68 million ($70 million) in an account at LGT bank in Liechtenstein which came to light after a former employee Heinrich Kieber stole the records of 1,400 clients in 2002 and sold them.

Tsk tsk what have they been doing? Good on the Investigations subcommittee of the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs! Someone should have told OBL what Yamamoto said after Pearl Harbour "I'm afraid all we have done is awaken a sleeping lion and fill it will rage and resolve."
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:49 am

Livni may think she won the election but 28 seats out of 120 is not what I would call a win. Netanyahu is right behind her with 27 seats and it looks like he has more chances to form a viable coalition with other rightists maybe even ultra-rightists than Livni does. I do not see how a Livni/Lieberman alliance could work.
Tight situation. We will find out soon enough what is going to happen.


Last update - 06:43 11/02/2009
Success of rightist bloc may propel Netanyahu into PM's chair
By Haaretz Staff and News Agencies
Tags: israel news, Tzipi Livni

With a clear advantage to the rightist bloc in Israel's national elections Tuesday, Benjamin Netanyahu could well end up as the next prime minister, regardless of whether his Likud party won the most votes or came second to centrist Kadima and Tzipi Livni.

Late Tuesday night, Netanyahu began contacts with several right-wing parties, including Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063339.html

With 99% of votes counted, Kadima leads Likud 28 to 27 seats
By Haaretz Service
Tags: Israel elections, Israel news

With 99 percent of the votes counted, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's Kadima Party is in first place with 28 of the Knesset's 120 seats, with Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party following closely behind with 27 seats.

As the vote progresses, Labor stands at 13 seats, while Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beitenu party is expected to garner 15 seats.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063105.html
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
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RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:50 am

Schas and Yisrael Beiteinu have already to be accounted into the Netanyahu camp - which mathematically has a 63-64 seat majority in a 120 seat pannel of Knesset.Labour ,Kadima and the other non-right-wing parties together remain in a minority-it's a no-brainer.
Only other solution would be a government of national unity,uniting Likud,Kadima and Labour..but I don't see it happen,since neither Bibi neither Zipi would step back to allow PM seat for the opponent.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:28 am

The Israeli electoral system has thrown up a most confusing "split" result.

Centre-left Kadima is projected to be in first place but the right-wing parties together get the biggest bloc of seats in the Knesset.

Tzipi Livni and Benjamin Netanyahu may both end up inviting each other to join governments they would respectively head. It would be comic if it were not so serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7882731.stm
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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SOBHI51
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:57 am



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 31):
The only difference between the Provos and Al Queda



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
AQ and the rest to the IRA? Seriously, not even close. You go and research how the IRA operated and then go look into how AQ planned, funded and carried out 9/11



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
Yea ok and was much more loosely organized and much underfunded when compared to AQ and the re

And what does AQ have to do with the Israeli-Paletinian problem.AQ never attacked Israel and is not a side in this conflict.I think that you are looking at the wrong enemy.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:11 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 26):
Please then explain why after the UK government negotiated (over a long time, mind you) with the IRA, the violence stopped.

Hmmm, not sure I want to compare the IRA to radical Islam. Two totally different animals.

Both murder(ed) civilians indiscriminately. Bombed toss(ed) bombs at soft targets. Both have/had political statemetns rooted in religious complaint/intolerance.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 30):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):
Hmmm, not sure I want to compare the IRA to radical Islam. Two totally different animals.

Maybe. Please explain how they would be different and then we can discuss. Short of that, your argument about not negotiating with terrorists is completely invalidated.

Point to Wunala....

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 31):
Spot on, WunalaYann. NIKV69, The IRA (strictly speaking, the Provisional IRA) were entirely concerned with a 'religious war.' The only difference was that they were 'radical Christians' rather than 'radical Islamists).

Quite.

It's ironic that, as Baroque has pointed out, nothwithstanding the terrible attacks of 9/11, and the subsequent bill from Congress making it a crime to fund terrorists, the great majority of funding for the IRA came from the USA. Does the American private financial support amount to the same thing ? I don't know, but here's one man's opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3-27vfLDBc

A fairly controversial statement, but, it's a free society. So far.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:38 am



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 41):
I don't know, but here's one man's opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3-27vfLDBc

A fairly controversial statement, but, it's a free society. So far.

A fine speech. I had read the transcript, but it is even more impressive seeing him give it. It should not be, but it is.

How long before his views go from controversy to accepted wisdom? Failing that his more gloomy comment will prevail. Very timely to point out that failing to engage with Arafat and pushing the ineffective and unacceptable puppet Abbas has resulted in Hamas. And however objectionable Hamas might be as interlocutors, what follows could be a great deal worse. When will it be learned that puppets are fine for Indonesian wayang, but tend not to be a good idea for real politics?
 
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SOBHI51
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:20 pm



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 41):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3-27vfLDBc

One phrase stuck to my mind.
You make peace by talking to your enemies.
Will Bibi hear this?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:02 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 43):
You make peace by talking to your enemies.

'To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war.' Attributed to Winston Churchill, at a White House luncheon, 1954.

As a guy who charged with the 21st. Lancers at Omdurman in 1898, fought the Boers in South Africa in 1900, fought on the Western Front in WW1, and led the Western world to victory in WW2, IMO he was entitled to his opinion.  Smile

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 43):
Will Bibi hear this?

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. But I reckon that it doesn't matter what any Israeli PM wants - they'll never have a solid enough majority to get it through the Knesset.

In any case, Livni knows all about 'terrorism' - her own father was Chief of Staff of the Irgun. If she hasn't learned how evil the whole goddam business is by now, she never will.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:28 pm

Don't read me wrong - if there are subjects where we disagree -mainly tied to the political and the social-religious situation in the KSA- that does not mean I am anti Muslim or anti- Islam. I'm profoundly "anti religion" - which has absolutely nothing to do with the Koran or Torah or Bible -but with the use of those texts to justify wars,despotism and "male supremacy" over women..
 white 

In the case of Israel we have a particular scenario,in that it's the only country built on a religious-ethnical perception- and hence is poised to re-enforce racist extremism within it's boundaries.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Israeli Election Thread..

Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:36 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 47):
that does not mean I am anti Muslim or anti- Islam

I have never ever accused of that.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 47):
male supremacy" over women

Or female supremacy over men and trust me i know what i am talking about.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam

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