Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dtwclipper
Topic Author
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:08 pm

CNN -- A Saudi Arabian court has sentenced a 75-year-old Syrian woman to 40 lashes, four months imprisonment and deportation from the kingdom for having two unrelated men in her house, according to local media reports.

According to the Saudi daily newspaper Al-Watan, troubles for the woman, Khamisa Mohammed Sawadi, began last year when a member of the religious police entered her house in the city of Al-Chamli and found her with two unrelated men, "Fahd" and "Hadian."

Fahd told the policeman that he had the right to be there, because Sawadi had breast-fed him as a baby and was therefore considered to be a son to her in Islam, according to Al-Watan. Fahd, 24, added that his friend Hadian was escorting him as he delivered bread for the elderly woman. The policeman then arrested both men.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...audi.arabia.lashes/?iref=hpmostpop

A 75 year old woman?

And these religious police can just enter your house? I thought that in the KSA you had some rights in your own home?
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:22 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
And these religious police can just enter your house? I thought that in the KSA you had some rights in your own home?

Now all the top heads were changed this will not happen anymore. About time to control them.
 
dtwclipper
Topic Author
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:03 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
Now all the top heads were changed this will not happen anymore

Sorry, but we're talking about something that just happened, right?

"Many Saudis are hopeful that the Ministry of Justice will be reformed."* We'll have to see, it's not a done deal.


*CNN article
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
"Many Saudis are hopeful that the Ministry of Justice will be reformed."* We'll have to see, it's not a done deal

Things do take a little longer back home. Patience is a virtue.
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:53 pm

Didn't we have a thread recently about how westernized saudi was becoming?

Maybe they should start with a lesson in what is considered barbaric by western (european) standards.

Leopards do not change their spots.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:23 pm



Quoting Babybus (Reply 4):
Leopards do not change their spots.

With some cloning they will. It is happening. The above is cruel and stupid. I am sure it will be overturn by higher powers.
 
dtwclipper
Topic Author
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:15 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
. I am sure it will be overturn by higher powers.

Where is she in the meantime? Is she in prison? Has she been in jail since the other two boys were arrested?
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:28 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Where is she in the meantime? Is she in prison? Has she been in jail since the other two boys were arrested?

Sorry but i am not the interior minister. Can not answer as all information are from local newspapers. And some news could be few days if not weeks old.

I said before not everything is rosy back home, but i see a lot of changes already happening. Jeddah became a great and much more open than few years ago. Trust me if fundamentalists take over the KSA things will be much worst. Afghanistan will be heaven in comparison. so be patient and remember what happened in Iran after the fall of the Shah.
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:36 am

Saudi Arabia's Islamic legal system is a system where the rules of evidence are very shady, lawyers are not always present at trials or hearings, and sentence guidelines are weak - sentences depend on the whim of individual judges.

Victims of the legal system are frequently women, who already suffer under severe restrictions on their daily life in Saudi Arabia: Women cannot drive, appear before a judge without a male representative, or travel abroad without a male guardian's permission. What a great legal system...  sarcastic 
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14785
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:42 am

And we are all afraid of an uprising in Saudi Arabia. W'll call it terrorism. They flood on oil.
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:59 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 3):
Patience is a virtue.

So is treating people humanely. Actually, treating people humanely comes way before patience on my list of key virtues. I do not see why we should be patient in the face of barbaric behaviours.
 
NorthstarBoy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:53 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:30 am

All i can say is, Barbaric. Maybe it's time for us in the west to simply boycott Saudi Oil until such as time as they bring their standards into line with the rest of the civilized world, meaning no religious police and full equal rights for woman in all aspects of life.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:32 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Has she been in jail since the other two boys were arrested?

Boys? 24 years old is a boy? In what universe?

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 8):
What a great legal system...

Maybe, but when some one gets sentenced to death they don't get 30 years of appeals and then file one saying that their justice has not been swift so they should be let go.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:10 am

Call me back when women are allowed to drive (who is supposed to pick the kids up from soccer practice?) and a woman can walk without a guardian (****blocker) outside of the house. For all purposes, Saudi Arabia is Afghanistan without oil. It's really a Taliban life with the trappings of a rich Swiss household. Its nice that the religious police have a new leader, but lets get real... the culture of Saudi is still that of 9th century Europe.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:12 am

Could it be that there exists a powerstruggle between the reformist king and the backwards feudal tribal rulers and members of the religious police and that this poor woman and the two men simply got caught in it?
Recently the king fired a powerfull conservative religious judge (Saudi Arabia's legal system is based on religion) and the equaly conservative head of the religious police. Could it be that conservative members of both the religious police and the judical are trying to sabotage the reform efforts and took this woman to make a statement?

Jan
 
kaitak
Posts: 10128
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:21 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 16):
Saudi Arabia is Afghanistan without oil.

You mean Afghanistan WITH oil.

That's probably going a bit too far (even if you were to say "the Taleban with oil"); I think the Taleban are in a different league, even to the Wahabis. The Taleban even oppose education for women - and have burned/closed down about 300 girls' schools in northern areas of Pakistan (yes, Pakistan).

That said, there is no denying that this sentence is barbaric and as another poster said, I hope it is overruled by a higher authority.

Incidentally, can anyone explain the difference between the mutawa and the ulema/ulami?
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:24 am



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18):
That's probably going a bit too far (even if you were to say "the Taleban with oil"); I think the Taleban are in a different league, even to the Wahabis. The Taleban even oppose education for women - and have burned/closed down about 300 girls' schools in northern areas of Pakistan (yes, Pakistan).

Actually from a colleague, who has worked in Saudi Arabia for quite a while, those who in Saudi Arabia join the religious police would in Afghanistan probably have joined the Taliban militias. He describes them as religious bullies.

Jan
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:42 am



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18):
Incidentally, can anyone explain the difference between the mutawa and the ulema/ulami?

How about the difference between the wallopers and the lawyers? But that assumes you mean religious police by mutawa - whereas Wiki will tell you the proper term for the Saudi religious police is هيئة "hay'ah" which is Arabic for "commission" and is a shortened version of "the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vices" which serves as the infrastructure of proselytization and enforcement of Wahhabist tenets

And to increase your level of confusion - also from Wiki:
The Mutaween (Arabic: �...طوعين‎ muṭawiʿiyn; variant English spellings: mutawwain, muttawa, mutawallees, mutawa'ah, mutawi', mutawwa') means "subjugated people" in Arabic is commonly used as a casual term for the government-authorized or -recognized religious police (or clerical police) of Saudi Arabia. More recently the term has gained use as an umbrella term outside the Arab-speaking world to indicate religious-policing organizations in Islamic countries with at least some government recognition or deference, who enforce varied interpretations of Sharia Law.

So once you have all that, just add:
In the Muslim Arab world the more generally traditional meaning of mutawwa is "pious man" and generally refers to any Muslim that "volunteers" to adopt all the orthodoxies of Islam, including the non-compulsory ones such as praying extra prayers or giving more charity. Consequently many native Arab speakers will use "mutawwa" simply to refer to any orthodox Muslim, and interpret the disparaging use of the "mutawwa" by non-Arab Westerners to indicate contempt not for religious police, but for orthodox Islam in general

So have a care, lest you be misunderstood, or even worse, misunderestimated.

Back to Ulema:
In a broader sense, the term ulema is used to describe the body of Muslim clergy who have completed several years of training and study of Islamic sciences, such as a mufti, qadi, faqih, or muhaddith. Some Muslims include under this term the village mullahs, imams, and maulvis---who have attained only the lowest rungs on the ladder of Islamic scholarship; other Muslims would say that clerics must meet higher standards to be considered ulema.

Reminds me of the line in "Soap" - "confused?".

Let Wiki be your friend.

PS before someone asks Ummah is the "community of Muslims"
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:08 pm



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 10):
I do not see why we should be patient in the face of barbaric behaviours.

I ask for patience, but i do not force you to accept.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
Call me back when women are allowed to drive

you know the way Saudi men drive here and you can ask anybody who visited Saudi, they are doing a great favor by not allowing them to drive. my wife drove in the UK, USA, Syria and Lebanon said she will never get behind the wheel in Saudi.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
and a woman can walk without a guardian

Few days ago went with my wife to a restaurant in Riyadh (Le Notre) we sat on the balcony. There was about 20 tables all full, so about 60 people, in total there were only 3 men there.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 8):
Victims of the legal system are frequently women

Not true at all.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
the culture of Saudi is still that of 9th century Europe

Women in the USA did not get the right to vote till late 1800 or early 1900.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
Could it be that there exists a powerstruggle between the reformist king and the backwards feudal tribal rulers and members of the religious police and that this poor woman and the two men simply got caught in it?

You nailed it.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6354
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
you know the way Saudi men drive here and you can ask anybody who visited Saudi, they are doing a great favor by not allowing them to drive

Wow, what a way to spin it.
Silly me, I thought the Saudis are just barbarically oppressing the women, but they are actually doing them a FAVOR!  Yeah sure
Thanks for broadening my horizons...
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:30 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
deportation from the kingdom

Probably the best thing that could happen to her, actually.

Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
Maybe, but when some one gets sentenced to death they don't get 30 years of appeals and then file one saying that their justice has not been swift so they should be let go.

People wonder whether the US has ever executed an innocent person. I don't think anyone wonders whether the KSA has. So I wouldn't exactly be looking to them for advice on an appeals system.

-Mir
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:41 pm



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 19):
Thanks for broadening my horizons

My pleasure,any time.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4307
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:12 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 7):
so be patient and remember what happened in Iran after the fall of the Shah

I don't mean to stir the pot - but I find the Shias much more tolerant than the Wahhabis. I was going to say Shias more tolerant than Sunnis but then I guess it depends on which fiqh you follow whether it is Hanbali or something else.

Example - Iran had to have a revolution to reembrace its Islamic principles, and yet it is still more tolerant than Saudi Arabia. Example - women have more rights, their dress code is not as strict, they can actually talk to men who they are not married to, can drive and they are not limited in pursuing employment opportunities. Minorities (except for bahais I guess) can practice their religion freely and they do not ban churches and synagogues. Consumption of alcohol and pork is restricted, but not outright banned as in Saudi.
 
radiopolitic
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:00 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:36 pm



Quoting Airxliban (Reply 22):

They also ruled caviar to be halal purely for profit.
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:52 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
Women in the USA did not get the right to vote till late 1800 or early 1900.

Indeed. 110 years on and nothing coming out of Saudi Arabia.

Did I forget to mention that Saudi Arabia, just like the overwhelming majority of Arab and Muslim countries does not recognise Israel? In complete, utter hypocrisy, seeing as Saudi Arabia has played middle man between Arab states and Israel in a few attempts to negotiate peace in the area.

So no, defending the regime, no matter what sort of tiny, tweeny progress is being made there, is just not working. Again, it is not you personally that I am criticising, but a regime wrapped in backwards, hypocritical, barbaric "purity".

 Smile
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 24):
Did I forget to mention that Saudi Arabia, just like the overwhelming majority of Arab and Muslim countries does not recognise Israel? In complete, utter hypocrisy, seeing as Saudi Arabia has played middle man between Arab states and Israel in a few attempts to negotiate peace in the area.

Just by playing that role Saudi Arabia showed a wish to have relations with Israel when peace is reached.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 24):
So no, defending the regime, no matter what sort of tiny, tweeny progress is being made there, is just not working. Again, it is not you personally that I am criticising, but a regime wrapped in backwards, hypocritical, barbaric "purity".

I will never defend the regime unless i really feel that there is a will and the start of a lot of reforms. It is working for me and that is enough because i leave there.
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:41 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
Just by playing that role Saudi Arabia showed a wish to have relations with Israel when peace is reached.

Or perhaps the regime is desperately trying to earn brownie points with the bunch of nazis ruling the country's religious system... By not recognising Israel, it shows that it is just as fascist as the fundies teaching in the Madrassas and preaching at the Mosques, but it also wraps itself in hypocritical support for the Palestinians, and at large the Arab street. A win-win situation.

So when finally peace is reached under the, ahem, "good auspices" of the Al-Saoud, the regime will be able to step into modernity and recognise Israel while having presented itself as a solid defender of the Intifada.

 Wink
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:43 pm



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 26):
Or perhaps the regime is desperately trying to earn brownie points with the bunch of nazis ruling the country's religious system... By not recognising Israel, it shows that it is just as fascist as the fundies teaching in the Madrassas and preaching at the Mosques, but it also wraps itself in hypocritical support for the Palestinians, and at large the Arab street. A win-win situation.

Can not understand what r u getting at. They have nothing to prove to the religious system,what does not recognizing Israel have to do with hypocritical support to the Palestinians,BTW Saudi Arabia was the biggest Donner to rebuild Gaza. Then you mentioned the Arab street.Looks like you put everybody in a mixer and pushed the on button and came up with the above.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 26):
So when finally peace is reached under the, ahem, "good auspices" of the Al-Saoud, the regime will be able to step into modernity and recognise Israel while having presented itself as a solid defender of the Intifada.

Ahem for what? The Saudis are working in the open. They have a peace plan on the table waiting for the last 4 years for a respond from Israel and at the same time it does not hide there support to the Palestinians (Hamas not included)
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:05 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 27):
Looks like you put everybody in a mixer and pushed the on button and came up with the above.

If you say so, mate, if you say so.  biggrin 
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:12 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 28):
If you say so, mate, if you say so.

Yes i am saying so. Let's see you explaining it. It did not make any sense to me.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:47 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
you know the way Saudi men drive here and you can ask anybody who visited Saudi, they are doing a great favor by not allowing them to drive.

Seems to me that if the problem is that Saudi men drive dangerously, the best solution would be to keep THEM off the roads, not the women.

So there must be some other factors at play. I wonder what they could be.  scratchchin 

-Mir
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:19 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):
Yes i am saying so. Let's see you explaining it. It did not make any sense to me.

I am sorry to hear it did not make sense to you. Perhaps one day it will.  Smile

In the meantime, good luck with pushing the reforms in your country!
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:48 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
Seems to me that if the problem is that Saudi men drive dangerously, the best solution would be to keep THEM off the roads, not the women.

Great solution, but then nobody will go to work. That will be nice.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
So there must be some other factors at play. I wonder what they could be.

I am not that happy with the reason, it will save me the salary of a driver if the wife can drive.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 31):
In the meantime, good luck with pushing the reforms in your country!

If you really mean it then thanks, we will need all the luck, but hard times lay ahead. it's not going to be easy.
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:02 am

Is there anything like a women's rights movement in S.A.? Suffrage? What about the human rights situation in general?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 32):
it's not going to be easy.

It all starts with a mass change of perspective. I'm not sure if you were joking in some of the comments you made, but it isn't appropriate.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
women are allowed to drive (who is supposed to pick the kids up from soccer practice?)

How is this any less a chauvinist attitude...?

Toni
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:28 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Where is she in the meantime? Is she in prison?

She is home her lawyer is appealing the sentence. BTW the stupid thing about this story (beside the sentence) is that the father of one of the men is the star witness against the woman.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 33):
I'm not sure if you were joking in some of the comments you made, but it isn't appropriate.

If you can point to those comments i will try to clear things. And if some of my comments were not appropriate i will apologize immediately.
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:03 am

I meant this one -

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 18):
they are doing a great favor by not allowing them to drive

Sorry - I didn't mean to sound quite as irate as I did, but I do firmly believe that these issues do need to be taken seriously if you are to bring about any change in your country. You can't joke about denying women the right to drive, because you are talking of encouraging respect for womens' roles in S.A. society. Making any fun of the situation women face might be seen as disrespectful.

Still, I do also understand that Saudi Arabia is only one example of a country in which women are repressed. But the changes also have to start somewhere... (And now I'm arguing for and against myself alternately Big grin ).

Toni
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:17 am



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 35):
Sorry - I didn't mean to sound quite as irate as I did, but I do firmly believe that these issues do need to be taken seriously if you are to bring about any change in your country. You can't joke about denying women the right to drive, because you are talking of encouraging respect for womens' roles in S.A. society. Making any fun of the situation women face might be seen as disrespectful.

The joke was on the terrible way men drive in Saudi. It is a very well known fact that some of the driver do not have a driver permit and children under the age also drive.  Angry
One day i was flying from RUH-LHR on BMI and the passenger in front of me requested champagne as soon as he got on the plane.Well unless the plane was in the air alcohol will not be served. So he show how much he was upset, i asked him how long he was in KSA response 8 months working on a project and really making good money, but the only thing which bothered him was and i quote " Every morning as i leave the compound to start a 4o KM trip to the site i am never sure i will make it back alive the way the Saudi drive" My reaction, i ordered the same for me.  Smile
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:24 am

I like the anecdote  Smile But the couple of Saudis that were at my school were both excellent drivers! Maybe they behave when driving on the left?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 36):
The joke was on the terrible way men drive in Saudi.

I didn't miss that - but you know what I mean - it's not good to imply that women are in any way being done a favour when they are being discriminated against.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:57 am



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 37):
I didn't miss that - but you know what I mean - it's not good to imply that women are in any way being done a favour when they are being discriminated against

OK then i will put it this way. The way men drive in Saudi maybe women will be safer if they did not drive.
Better?
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 38):
Better?

O.K. - but they should have the choice.  Smile
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:28 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 32):
Great solution, but then nobody will go to work. That will be nice.

The women could drive them to work.

It may sound like a ridiculous solution, but not nearly as ridiculous as the idea that women should be banned from driving for their own protection.

-Mir
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:37 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 39):
O.K. - but they should have the choice

I am with you on this one.

Quoting Mir (Reply 40):
It may sound like a ridiculous solution, but not nearly as ridiculous as the idea that women should be banned from driving for their own protection.

I did not make the law and i never said that it make sense. But just making it look better. Adding some humor to the situation.

Now this might surprise you. In parts of Saudi but not in big cities women do drive, the police let them do it. They help the men in there daily labor like farming or delivering goods etc...
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:45 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 41):
I did not make the law and i never said that it make sense. But just making it look better.

I don't think such a law deserves to look better. But that's just me.

-Mir
 
dtwclipper
Topic Author
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:13 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 34):
BTW the stupid thing about this story (beside the sentence) is that the father of one of the men is the star witness against the woman.

Was there more info on that or an English article you can post.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 34):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Where is she in the meantime? Is she in prison?

She is home her lawyer is appealing the sentence.

Thanks for the follow up. At least she is at able to be home whilst she has to go through the legal hoops.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 41):
Now this might surprise you. In parts of Saudi but not in big cities women do drive, the police let them do it

This does surpise me, one always assumes that the more rural, the more conservative folks are.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 43):
Was there more info on that or an English article you can post.

http://news.aol.com/article/saudi-woman-sentenced-to-lashes/375581


[quote=Dtwclipper,reply=43]This does surpise me, one always assumes that the more rural, the more conservative folks are.

Rural areas are much more relaxed. They come to the city and they get scared and they hide behind more conservatism.
 
twal1011727
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:36 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:16 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
relations with Israel when peace is reached.

Prez : I know there is an understanding that can be reached between us.
Can there be a peace between us?

Alien : Peace - no peace.

Prez : What is it you want us to do?

Alien : DIE

sounds eerily like the lines in "Independence Day" movie

This to me is what the rhetoric sounds like today.

Tolerance and friendship is all thats needed.

KD
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:13 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 44):
Rural areas are much more relaxed.

Because there is far less "religious police" in the rural areas?  confused 
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:46 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 46):
Because there is far less "religious police" in the rural areas?

No because they all know each other and they will protect each other. Remember we are talking more or less about tribe mentality.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25884
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:33 pm

Some intersting articles here ::

Inside the desert kingdom

There are signs that Saudi Arabia, long bound by rigid social norms and an austere interpretation of Islam, has begun to take the first tentative steps towards real reform, writes Mary Fitzgerald

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/inside-the-desert-kingdom/
 
ALexeu
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:01 am

RE: Saudis Order 40 Lashes For Elderly Woman

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:07 pm

SOBHI51, My cousin has a big tattoo of a Christian Cross on his body, so would he be able to swim at the swimming pool in Saudi Arabia?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dutchy, Paars, skyservice_330 and 37 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos