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bananaboy
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Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:55 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7935679.stm

Soldiers returning home to the UK yesterday were met by anti-war protesters who held placards with messages such as "Butchers of Basra," were called child killers, cowards, murderers and so on.

Whilst I don't agree with anything the protesters were saying, is this just part of the price we must pay for free speech? I also find it strange that this protest was allowed to proceed, yet those against the official visit from China a couple of years ago were silenced.

A double standard?

What do you think?

Mark
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swiftski
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:59 am



Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
What do you think?

It's always the same 'types' of people who protest like this.

If you don't like living here, leave. Simple as that.

Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...
 
baroque
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:06 am



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
It's always the same 'types' of people who protest like this.

What type would that be?

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
If you don't like living here, leave. Simple as that.

Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...

Do explain. Remember that those outside the UK cannot see the video on the link provided. Bloody BBC.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:09 am



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...

One of those is the right to protest, they likely know full well that they would not be allowed to do that where they came from!

As said, if you do not like what the UK stands for, the exit row at LHR is there for your use.


Cheers
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metroliner
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:09 am

It might have looked worse for the police to silence some ostensibly Muslim protesters with a (dubious?) claim to legitimacy than to shut up some loud-mouthed hippy do-gooders...

Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
A double standard?

Definitely. But what else can we expect, eh...

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
It's always the same 'types' of people who protest like this.

I dunno - they looked like the majority were Muslims, who might understandably have some beef with the Afghan situation - and as I said above, are more difficult to 'silence' in a PC way because they are actually not breaking the law.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
What type would that be?

"Loud-mouthed hippy do-gooders" - a stereotype including but not limited to Plane Stupid, Swampy and Mindless Nutters All In Favour Of Trashing London On May Day For No Apparent Reason.
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Stealthz
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:11 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Remember that those outside the UK cannot see the video on the link provided. Bloody BBC.

Worked just fine for me here in Sydney.

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
bananaboy
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:14 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Do explain. Remember that those outside the UK cannot see the video on the link provided. Bloody BBC.

Maybe you will be able to see it on the following YouTube link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pRNmLWhtO4


Mark
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Gman94
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 am

Firstly I think it's a bit of poor reporting on behalf of the media, the anti war protesters numbered about 10 people whereas the people welcoming the Anglian's home numbered a few hundred but the media make it sound like hoards of anti war protesters.

Secondly there is a time and a place for these kind of protests and this was not one of them. If you have a grievance with Iraq or Afghanistan then you address them to the politicians not the brave men and women that just do the job they are ordered to.

Also I'm sure the security services were also making note as well, some more Islamofascists to keep an eye on.

Oh if only the Anglian's could of bayoneted them as they went past.  Big grin
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OA260
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:17 am

Whilst I do not agree with the occupation of USA and British troops in the Middle East the troops are sent by order of their governments. They do not have a say in the matter. If people want to protest then they should go to the government buildings.

The troops should be respected and given the respect thats due. I have a few friends serving and they would like nothing more than to leave Iraq.

Maybe its time for counter protests. I wonder how these same protesters would feel if thousands demonstrated outside their community centers and social events . Maybe then they would realise there is a time and place for everything.

The British government are to blame. 20 years ago they decided to let immigrants go into ghettos instead of integrate. Unfortunately the damage is done now.

When in Rome you should respect the country you are in . If you have issues then you take them to the government and their buildings.
 
swiftski
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:17 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
What type would that be?

Those that think "your country is better than mine, i am going to come live there. but want you to make it exactly how i want it"
 
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par13del
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:30 am



Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
I also find it strange that this protest was allowed to proceed, yet those against the official visit from China a couple of years ago were silenced.

As for the double standard, the good question is why, what caused the UK officials to have a double standard, is it because of what China might do, if so, more countries need to learn what that was so they can all attempt to use the same tactic.
Lets hope that young Britons are not so put off by this that they never volunteer to serve their country anymore.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:53 am



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 4):
I dunno - they looked like the majority were Muslims,

Muslims is not how you should call them. They represent only themselves and there kind of extremist teaching. For sure they do not represent my Islam.

Wished the police for technical reasons left the area and let the soldiers deal with them. Make eat those placards.You will never see them or any of there friends anywhere near a military parade
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
vc10
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:47 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):

Muslims is not how you should call them. They represent only themselves and there kind of extremist teaching. For sure they do not represent my Islam.

I understand and agree with you on this matter, but the ordinary everyday British person, who happens to be a Muslim, has to start announcing loud and clear that they do not agree with these people, and I mean loud enough so the average man in the street, Muslim, Christian etc hears them.

littlevc10
 
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OA260
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:49 pm

Another march passed without incident in Watford today and thousands turned up to pay their respects to the troops. Yesterdays events were said to have brought alot more out in support.
 
Mir
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:53 pm



Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
"Butchers of Basra,"

I wasn't aware that the British troops spent time carving and selling cuts of meat while in Iraq. Some people.....  Yeah sure

Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
Whilst I don't agree with anything the protesters were saying, is this just part of the price we must pay for free speech?

It is. And as long as the protestors don't try to disrupt the proceedings, they have the right to say what they want to say. Just as we have the right to respond (peacefully, of course).

-Mir
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imiakhtar
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:10 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):
Make eat those placards.You will never see them or any of there friends anywhere near a military parade

These numpties obviously never attended a madrassa. If they had, they would know a thing or two about respect!  duck   Wink

Quoting VC10 (Reply 12):

I understand and agree with you on this matter, but the ordinary everyday British person, who happens to be a Muslim, has to start announcing loud and clear that they do not agree with these people, and I mean loud enough so the average man in the street, Muslim, Christian etc hears them.

But surely, should a protest of 10-20 said folk really be making head line news?

On the whole I do agree with you. However, it is easier said than done. British muslims don't really have an organised body or figure representing them. It makes the Church look united!  Wink

Regards
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baroque
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:23 pm



Quoting Bananaboy (Reply 6):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Do explain. Remember that those outside the UK cannot see the video on the link provided. Bloody BBC.

Maybe you will be able to see it on the following YouTube link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pRNmLWhtO4

Thanks Mark. Outside the UK the BEEB videos only work occasionally, in this case I got a screaming ad about drawing a UK pension in Aus, and then NOWT. But U-tube worked just fine.

Now I know what it is about. Gman94's account seems fair enough except I am not sure adding a bit of cold steel to the occasion would have assisted greatly.

I don't know where the protesters come from but I think someone should check before attributing a whole bunch of motives to them. They do not look Iraqi to me, but they could be.

That parade was not the place to demonstrate, as they found out, but if you were an Iraqi whose family had been killed during or more likely after the invasion of their country, you might be a bit irritated too. Butchers of Basra sounds at the least inaccurate and at best a poor way of advancing a complaint.

There is one aspect about it which is timely, it is a reminder that charging into someone else's country is not all that smart an idea. As I keep saying, Occupations do not seem to go well in general. The exceptions rather prove the rule. And the exceptions were not a great as is commonly supposed. The occupation of Germany is often cited as a wonderful example, but
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_A...ation_of_Germany_after_World_War_2
suggests casualties of 750 and guerrilla resistance until 1948. I have read accounts of occupying forces in Japan being careful to avoid skylines to avoid being a good target.
 
slider
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm



Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):
What do you think?

I think the protesters are scum. Free speech, sure.

But I’d have loved to use my freedom of expression tostick my boot in their mouths and gladly taken the consequences. It pains me to no end and pisses me off to hear about this. You may not agree with the war, but they were doing their jobs. Sacrificing for the greater good and putting their lives on the line for those shitheads to protest.

I regret I wasn’t old enough to see the end of the Vietnam War because had I been able to, I’d have lost my mind on those people who spit on our returning troops.
 
vc10
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:40 pm

[

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
There is one aspect about it which is timely, it is a reminder that charging into someone else's country is not all that smart an idea. As I keep saying, Occupations do not seem to go well in general. The exceptions rather prove the rule. And the exceptions were not a great as is commonly supposed. The occupation of Germany is often cited as a wonderful

Well, at first I thought you were referring to all the asylum seekers who had come to the UK uninvited

Sorry littlevc10
 
redflyer
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:52 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Remember that those outside the UK cannot see the video on the link provided. Bloody BBC.

I view BBC videos all the time from here in PHX...maybe they just have it out for you?  Wink

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 3):
As said, if you do not like what the UK stands for, the exit row at LHR is there for your use.

A little harsh. I think the protesters had every right to be there and to voice their opinion. It's what those returning troops and the generations before them have fought and died for. What better way to celebrate freedom than to allow the very people that were liberated to voice their opinion and hatred? Besides, all it does is make the protesters look bad as well as look extremely hypocritical. In the end, I think the protesters defeated their own purpose for being there.

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):
Firstly I think it's a bit of poor reporting on behalf of the media, the anti war protesters numbered about 10 people whereas the people welcoming the Anglian's home numbered a few hundred but the media make it sound like hoards of anti war protesters.

Actually, that's standard reporting for the media these days. Create an issue out of something insignificant.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
but if you were an Iraqi whose family had been killed during or more likely after the invasion of their country, you might be a bit irritated too.

I always find that view interesting because the vast majority of Iraqi victims in the past 6 years since the invasion were slaughtered by fellow Iraqis and other Muslims. Dare I say the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed prior to the invasion were slaughtered by other Iraqis as well.

Oh well, I guess the beauty of our species is that we can all look at the same thing and see something different. No other species has that capability.  Wink
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baroque
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:59 pm



Quoting VC10 (Reply 18):
Well, at first I thought you were referring to all the asylum seekers who had come to the UK uninvited

That problem should have been considered by the Coalition before they bid fair to making the problem worse. I am not sure if the UK could be accused of this behaviour, but Australia gave a particularly hard time to Iraqis and Afghans just at the time that Howard was fulminating about what an awful sort of chap Saddam was. And then they all went in to generate another couple of million refugees.

I am truly sorry that these folk chose a homecoming parade to demonstrate in a crude manner, but I would be equally disturbed if we get carried away by triumphalism over what is an episode that should never have occurred. It is tough that it comes back on the troops. But consider how tough it has been on Iraqis. Not that I think the protesters were Iraqis, they might have been but more likely not.

Yes asylum seekers are a problem, but if you find it a problem why undertake actions that will generate more refugees? Again I don't know what the UK has done, but Australia has deported at least two Afghans back to Afghanistan where they have been assassinated - as best can be told in that near total shambles.
 
AGM100
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:15 pm

The only Butchers over there are the Shia terror gangs ... killing their own and creating chaos.

This article is not about the Royal Anglian Regiment or at least they are not mentioned . But it is one of my favorite articles about the fighting in Basra and the desert approaches to Iran.

They are just total baddasses ... not question.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/death-or-glory.htm



Big version: Width: 726 Height: 460 File size: 57kb
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DocLightning
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting Bananaboy (Thread starter):


Whilst I don't agree with anything the protesters were saying, is this just part of the price we must pay for free speech?

Yes, it is the price we must pay.

A true champion of freedom will listen to someone he hates say something that makes his blood boil, something that he would spend a lifetime opposing. And yet he would give his life to defend his enemy's right to say it.

I find it as distasteful as you do and I want to punch those people in the teeth. But if I actually try to silence them through legal means, then I am no better than any repressive, autocratic dictator.
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windy95
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:27 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
The troops should be respected and given the respect thats due. I have a few friends serving and they would like nothing more than to leave Iraq.

Maybe its time for counter protests. I wonder how these same protesters would feel if thousands demonstrated outside their community centers and social events . Maybe then they would realise there is a time and place for everything.

Agree with you on this one. It is the same as these baptists over here who have been trying to upset the funerals of the GI's who have been brought home. If you have a beef go after the Government who sanctioned it not the average citizen who is just doing their job and carrying out orders. It is to bad that these soldiers and there families have to deal with this.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
true champion of freedom will listen to someone he hates say something that makes his blood boil, something that he would spend a lifetime opposing. And yet he would give his life to defend his enemy's right to say it.

I find it as distasteful as you do and I want to punch those people in the teeth. But if I actually try to silence them through legal means, then I am no better than any repressive, autocratic dictator.

Unfortunately the Freedom of speech cuts both ways.. You gave to accept what you do not like in order to be able to say what you would like. Tune it out and move on.

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
You may not agree with the war, but they were doing their jobs. Sacrificing for the greater good and putting their lives on the line for those shitheads to protest.

That is why I shake their hands and say thanks every chance I get. I spent more than my share of time in the Military but I really admire the heavy lifting these troops have been doing the last eight years.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:36 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 23):

Agree with you on this one. It is the same as these baptists over here who have been trying to upset the funerals of the GI's who have been brought home. If you have a beef go after the Government who sanctioned it not the average citizen who is just doing their job and carrying out orders. It is to bad that these soldiers and there families have to deal with this.

The baptists here are anti-gay demonstrators who are claiming that homosexuality is the cause of all death, destruction, and evil in the world. Again, I will defend with my life their right to say it because I have to. But I won't like it.

I also support exercising my own right to freedom of speech to drown them out. I do very much hope they come to San Francisco soon. I think we should time the entire Folsom Street Fair to be rescheduled and relocated to precisely where Westboro Baptist Church will be demonstrating.  Big grin

Freedom of Speech does not mean that you can't fight a little fire with a little fire. *evil grin*
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RussianJet
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
It's always the same 'types' of people who protest like this.

Yes, please expand upon what 'types' you refer to.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
If you don't like living here, leave. Simple as that.

Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...

Wow, I think you're probably making some massive assumptions about those involved. It is probably safe to assume many of the protesters were British born.

Though I disagree strongly with the tone of the protest shown and the context of it, a HUGE number of people in the UK from all sections of society and different races were and are strongly against the war in Iraq.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 9):
"your country is better than mine, i am going to come live there. but want you to make it exactly how i want it"

You know where all the protesters were born? What their citizenship is? How they came to have it? Ok, they appeared to mainly be Muslims of asian origin - there is more to it than that though.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 4):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
What type would that be?

"Loud-mouthed hippy do-gooders" - a stereotype including but not limited to Plane Stupid, Swampy and Mindless Nutters All In Favour Of Trashing London On May Day For No Apparent Reason.

I only wish that was what Swiftski meant, as I too am sick of such people. As someone said in the video, there are other ways to get your objections to the war across.
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scbriml
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:32 am



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 15):
British muslims don't really have an organised body or figure representing them.

Is that not the Muslim Council of Britain? To their credit, they condemned the protesters.
http://www.mcb.org.uk/

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 25):
Though I disagree strongly with the tone of the protest shown and the context of it, a HUGE number of people in the UK from all sections of society and different races were and are strongly against the war in Iraq.

Yes, and their anger should be directed at the Government that put our troops in that situation, not at the troops who are just doing what they're paid to do. The vast majority of Brits will support the troops regardless of their feelings for the war. I don't believe Britain has ever seen a situation like that in America towards the end of the Viet Nam war where homecoming troops were reviled.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
A true champion of freedom will listen to someone he hates say something that makes his blood boil, something that he would spend a lifetime opposing.

Exactly. Some of us with long memories would have felt some of those very emotions over the last few days listening to the likes of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness condemning terrorist activities in Northern Ireland. But, I would prefer to listen to their views and have the NI we have today, rather than have them silenced and the NI we had in the '70s and '80s.

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
But I’d have loved to use my freedom of expression tostick my boot in their mouths and gladly taken the consequences.

Well, the "antis" were considerably outnumbered by the "pros" and eventually, they were shepherded away by the police for their own protection.


I only have one concern - why weren't they arrested and charged with inciting racial hatred for the placards they were displaying?
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RussianJet
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:43 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 26):
Yes, and their anger should be directed at the Government that put our troops in that situation, not at the troops who are just doing what they're paid to do. The vast majority of Brits will support the troops regardless of their feelings for the war. I don't believe Britain has ever seen a situation like that in America towards the end of the Viet Nam war where homecoming troops were reviled.

Indeed, and I did point out and agree with the fact that someone featured in the video stated that there were ar more appropriate ways to protest UK involvement in Iraq.
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imiakhtar
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:08 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 26):
Is that not the Muslim Council of Britain? To their credit, they condemned the protesters.

Indeed there is the MCB. It does not however represent all muslims. Essentially, it is a Pakistani dominated organisation full of political infighting and on the whole has very little influence.

The Lancashire Council of Mosques, represented by the MCB, is yet to allow women to pray in the region's mosques. That's in stark contrast to the South where I have yet to come across such conservative attitudes and restrictions on female access to mosques. The MCB has got a long way to go to becoming the official chair of muslim people.

Kudos for the press release however:

http://www.mcb.org.uk/uploads/PRLutonMosque.pdf

Regards
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bananaboy
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:37 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 26):
I only have one concern - why weren't they arrested and charged with inciting racial hatred for the placards they were displaying?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see them holding placards that named a particular race, colour, creed, but just the name of the regiment. Their chants also seemed to focus on the regiment rather than any individual.



I guess that would be the reason, but no legal expert here.


Mark
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baroque
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:07 am



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 28):
Kudos for the press release however:

Interesting. Relationships between mosques is a constant source of amazement as I am sure those between Christian dioceses must be for you. I think I will just retreat to 101 Atheist quotes!!!

Funny thing is that I used to attend services at a certain place for the singing of the choir. And the person ultimately in charge of that "church" who also used to read the major lessons was an atheist during all the time I used to go, although I think they got a few god botherers in later. I have a feeling that religion was taken a bit more easily back in the 50s than at any time since.

Good press release though.
 
WrenchBender
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:45 am

"Bedfordshire Police said an 18-year-old man from Luton had been charged with racially aggravated harassment in connection with clashes during the parade" heard on another forum it was beacause he 'Threw Bacon' at the protestors.
Considering why most people were there, this crowd of idiots are lucky to be alive. Is this an islamic offshoot of the Westboro Babtists ? It seems the have the same level of idiocy.

WrenchBender
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HAWK21M
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:07 pm

RESPECT YOUR TROOPS.......
Its for your tommorrow that they gave up their today.
How many would do that.

regds
MEL
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AGM100
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:30 pm

My father in law and his buddies who returned from Viet Nam in 1970 were greeted outside of the bus station in SF by .."anti war activists" He told me that they ended up spending 5 days in the county jail for kicking hippy ass ! That is what the Anglicans should have done. !
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
GDB
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:25 pm

Well it's only a few, literally a few, idiots.
The police are duty bound to protect them from their own idiocy as well, I think Britain is still a very tolerant nation, but these idiots are so up themselves that they do not see how they will be compared to Oswald Mosley and his 'Blackshirts', in WW2 they were interned not so much for what they might do, but for their own protection!

Since these are not just protesting about British military involvement overseas, but are on the side of those they are fighting.
Big difference.

Being as British accents have been picked up while listening in to the Taliban, you would have thought these protesters might want to avoid making themselves known to the police, who almost certainly took images of them.
Since if links are suspects to 5th Columnists abroad, or support activity in their locale, including for terrorism plots here, they are rather inviting Police interest in Islamic extremists.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:37 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 34):
Well it's only a few, literally a few, idiots.

Apparently one of them worked at Luton Airport and now has had his pass suspended.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...uspended-hurling-abuse-troops.html

Thoughts?

Warning: If you are prone to high blood pressure do not read the readers' comments at the bottom of the article!  smile 
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bananaboy
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:52 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
Thoughts?

Warning: If you are prone to high blood pressure do not read the readers' comments at the bottom of the article!   

It's the Daily Mail.... we should expect no less. Scary when you look at how some of the more balanced comments, like "The guy's still allowed to have a job and his own opinion in a free country, right?" have got 702 "thumbs down's," whilst the highly intelligent, informed opinion like "Don't fly from Luton" gets hundreds of "thumbs up."

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
RussianJet
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:06 pm



Quoting Bananaboy (Reply 36):
It's the Daily Mail.... we should expect no less

Obviously in terms of the comments I expect nothing less than the tripe there, but what about the actual issues raised by the article? Should he have an airside pass removed for taking part in such a demonstration?
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
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OA260
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:13 pm

''and was also allegedly questioned over pictures of passenger jets. ''

A budding Anetter ??  Big grin
 
bananaboy
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:21 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 37):
Should he have an airside pass removed for taking part in such a demonstration?

I don't see why. His political and religious views are of no consequence to his ability to perform his duties, and to dismiss him because of them could be viewed as discrimination. However, if the Police investigate and prosecute under the Public Order Act, then the employee may be subject to disciplinary procedures which could, in turn, result in dismissal.

I think that the Police were right to allow the protest to occur, and the Police were right to arrest those who sought to silence the protest by violence. Their protest was a legal one (we'll wait and see if charges are soon brought) and the media has jumped on the religious aspect. Typical. I heard that 20,000 leaflets were sent out to the Muslim community and 20 showed up. Just shows what crackpots these individuals were.

Against the war? Support the troops and protest against the politicians in Parliament Square? Oh wait.. you can't (easily) do that now.  Sad

Mark


Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
GDB
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:59 pm

In theory you are right Banaboy, however with all the plots against civil aviation from Islamic extremists, putting yourself in public view effectively siding with the enemy is not wise, if you are employed at an airport. (But I doubt they are too smart anyway).

This was not like the usual anti war demo, which do not directly attack the servicemen-the politicians maybe, these are usually frequented by a much more diverse range of people than a few hotheads from one ethnic/religious group too.
 
EZYAirbus
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:41 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
Apparently one of them worked at Luton Airport and now has had his pass suspended.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 38):
''and was also allegedly questioned over pictures of passenger jets. ''

A budding Anetter ??

I worked at Luton Airport with this guy as his team leader

He was questioned over pictures taken of the Silverjet Aircraft

He asked many questions about the airline, where it went, what time, how many crew, how many passengers, how many bags, what route it took etc, some people found this suspicious so it was reported to airport police.

Guy wasnt very socialble and kept himself to himself, some people were suspicious of him. he even joked once he was Bin Ladens nephew

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
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seemyseems
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:22 am



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
It's always the same 'types' of people who protest like this.

If you don't like living here, leave. Simple as that.

Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...

Completely agree!

There was news on this on GMTV, a couple whose son had died in the Hellmand Provence, and then they start hearing about this! Awful.
seemyseems in ATL
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:39 am

This whole sorry affair is disgusting,people fighting for there country returning to this kind of filth. Freedom of speech!!! I'm sorry but thats a lot of bollocks, these people are trying to undermine the very way of life that we have fought for over hundreds of years!!! Wake up, what does it mean to be British? I thought it was doing what was morally right, having a democracy, free speech, not cowing down to every ethnic group that decides to attack what thousands have died for in the past!!!!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:59 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
My father in law and his buddies who returned from Viet Nam in 1970 were greeted outside of the bus station in SF by .."anti war activists" He told me that they ended up spending 5 days in the county jail for kicking hippy ass ! That is what the Anglicans should have done. !

Nope. They should not have. They proved that they were better men and women than the protestors.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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RussianJet
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:05 am



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 42):
If you don't like living here, leave. Simple as that.

Quick enough to come and accept the benefits...

Completely agree!

Living where? COME from where? Luton?

Do you know where any of the protesters actually came from?
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seemyseems
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:36 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):
Do you know where any of the protesters actually came from?

Personally, no, why would I anyway?

 

I was just agreeing with Swiftski, it just annoys me when people come overhere and start complaining, they chose to come here!

[Edited 2009-03-14 16:38:34]
seemyseems in ATL
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:34 am

As with everyone else, I think this was a disgusting act, it's not however so much the act itself which angers me, but the way in which it was carried out. It was indeed nothing short of racially aggravated harassment or even inciting racial hatred, after all it it is no different than if i went up to one of them and placed bacon on them or help up a plaque calling them terrorists.
This was not a politicised attack meant as a snub at the politicians, they could have done that any other day, but as a direct attack on our brave servicemen and women who have possibly lost friends in battle and in my eyes they got what they deserved, they felt the wrath of supporters who had to come to cheer the troops.

For you to come home having spent 6 months in the middle of the Iraq, constantly on alert and not knowing quite who to trust and who not to (sometimes the very people the politicians say are your 'friends' are worse than the people they are supposed to be fighting against) and then to come back to this, in your own country is nothing short of soul destroying.
However, that said, an order from the Parade Marshal to 'fix bayonets' (which take it from me, is never an order taken lightly) and charge at them would be wrong, i'm sure they felt like doing it but it would not have helped, they did the right thing, chin up, shoulders back marching smartly. They're soldiers and we're a tough breed.
After all, the reality is, even if they did it at every parade from now on, they will forever recieve the same reception. My conclusion is that, if they hate our troops so much, why are they still here milking our society for the good times (freedom of speach) yet not accepting the bad times (the fact our troops go out there to fight).

My view is, if you can't stand behind our troops, feel free to fly out to the warzones and stand infront of them.
Wrighbrothers
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Yellowstone
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:01 am

Let's stir the pot a bit here... Suppose you believe, as many people do, that the war in Iraq is morally wrong. Suppose you also believe, as many people do, that the final moral responsibility for an action lies with the person who does the action. Does it then follow that fighting as a soldier in Iraq is morally wrong, and that that action can be a reasonable target of protest?
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Returning UK Soldiers Called "Butchers"

Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:27 am



Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 43):
This whole sorry affair is disgusting,people fighting for there country returning to this kind of filth. Freedom of speech!!! I'm sorry but thats a lot of bollocks, these people are trying to undermine the very way of life that we have fought for over hundreds of years!!! Wake up, what does it mean to be British? I thought it was doing what was morally right, having a democracy, free speech, not cowing down to every ethnic group that decides to attack what thousands have died for in the past!!!!

Huh? I don't know where to begin with this post.

First, you directly contradict yourself. Are you defending or attacking freedom of speech? Either it is a British value that people have fought for--in which case you have to accept people saying things you hate because that is the very value you support--OR you are claiming that the protesters should have their freedom of speech suppressed, in which case you are the one undermining the democratic values you are saying you stand for and the soldiers are fighting for!

Second, it isn't an "ethnic group" attacking the soldiers. It is a few extremist individuals. It's worth distinguishing if you believe in a just society.

Third, where is this "cowing down"? If you believe, as many Britons do (including many white, Christian Britons) that this war was morally reprehensible, you have the right to say so. It doesn't matter whether you are white and born in Luton or brown and born in Luton, or Brown and born in Pakistan even. Fact is, these people chose to make their statement in a particular stupid way. Who is cowing down to them though? The only cowing down is the press stirring s**t to put a lot of focus on a few protesters in order to generate fervor, which plays right into their hands.
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